little_tippler

The article below refers to the project of artist Gregor Schneider where he plans to have someone dying, as part of an art show, for people to observe the diverse stages of a human death. The person on show would be a volunteer. Schneider claims that death is considered by society as an undignified event in a human life, but he wishes to transform it into a graceful and beautiful moment. Many art galleries and museums are refusing to show this work.

Original Article

I have very mixed feelings about this. To me, it's not art. It may have scientific, and even sociological value. I have seen loved ones die before my eyes and it is a tortuous and extremely distressing moment. I understand what the artist's idea may be. But to me, this is not the best way to convey it. This is too direct, and the shock value speaks louder than any message he may be intending to deliver.

Death is a private moment, and I don't see that it should be public or something to celebrate, or even dissect in an "artistic" way - perhaps that is of interest to medicine etc. Celebrating the life of someone who has passed is something entirely different.

Personally I would not visit this show...because I would not wish to validate it. But I would be curious. Every death is different.

We hide (and hide away from) death because we are scared of it. Because it reminds us of the fact that we will die too. Because it reshapes our lives constantly and we resist change. Because when someone we love dies, a part of our world and how we define it is gone...and sometimes it's impossible to start again.

I see no beauty in death...but I do not see it as undignified. I wanted to be there when my loved ones died. No matter how painful it was to think I would never speak to them or hold them or share with them again. It is an amazing thing though...the body seems so empty as life ebbs away, it's really terrifying to see. Also, it is in these times I am most aware that somewhere someone is also being born, and all the promise that holds.


Is this art to you? How do you feel about this artist's approach to death? Do you think the idea has any value? Do you think the actual physical embodiment chosen by the artist for this idea has any value? Would you go to this show? Why or why not?

Why is death such an undignified moment in Western culture? Is there grace and beauty in death?

__________________
Whether we write or speak or do but look
We are ever unapparent. What we are
Cannot be transfused into word or book.
Our soul from us is infinitely far.
However much we give our thoughts the will
To be our soul and gesture it abroad,
Our hearts are incommunicable still.
In what we show ourselves we are ignored.
The abyss from soul to soul cannot be bridged
By any skill of thought or trick of seeming.
Unto our very selves we are abridged
When we would utter to our thought our being.
We are our dreams of ourselves, souls by gleams,
And each to each other dreams of others' dreams.

Fernando Pessoa, 1918

Derwood

if done with taste, this could be a very poignant thing for both the "subject" as well as the family. if you were terminally ill, would you rather spend your final days in a hospital room or in an art gallery? as long as it's not exploitive, I think it could be beautiful

Bill O'Rights

I concur. It's not art. It's sensationalism.


How could it not be exploitive? I mean...realistically...98% of the people that go to see this are going out of a morbid sense of curiosity. That's why I would go...except that I wouldn't. It's a headlines grabber, which puts Gregor Schneider's name out there. That in itself is exploitive. Before a subject is even chosen.

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It is indisputable that true beauty lies within...but a nice rack sure doesn't hurt.

LoganSnake

If there is a willing subject to do this, why do you care?

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Punk.of.Ages

Exploitation is only bad if the subject is unwilling. If there's a willing volunteer, see nothing wrong with this. I also think it would be a very interesting thing to see.

Is it art?

Gregor is expressing his feelings about death through this, and the volunteer would be putting on his final performance.

Sounds a lot like art to me.

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"The fact is that censorship always defeats its own purpose, for it creates, in the end, the kind of society that is incapable of exercising real discretion..." - Henry Steel Commager

"Punk rock music is great music played by really bad, drunk musicians." -Fat Mike

Derwood

exploitation would also include the artist making money at the expense of the "subject". i don't know what financial parameters have been decided if this exhibit happens

girldetective

Sometimes I love you lil tip because you voice so clearly and gracefully what it is I feel.

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flat5

I'm reluctant to voice any opinion on this board but will try again.
I could not make art of this but perhaps someone else could.
For those of us who have never witnessed a death this could be a learning experience and perhaps make death a little less frightening.

LoganSnake

I've witnessed both calm and violent deaths and still don't consider this art. However, I don't consider this exploitation either. If the subject is willing and agrees to the terms, it's nobody else's business. Only thing they can do then is attend or not.

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Maturity is knowing you were an idiot in the past. Wisdom is knowing that you'll be an idiot in the future. Common sense is knowing that you should try not to be an idiot now. - J. Jacques

inBOIL

IAWTC

But even if this is exploitative, does that mean there is no artistic merit to it? I don't think the artistic merit should go unexamined simply because it necessarily comes bundled with consensual exploitation.

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speshul-k

While some readers might not exactly agree with the sentiment and possible exploitive nature of the concept, there is a school of thought which would see this as art.

Afterall art has always challenged new boundaries of thinking. It has always been sensational. Picasso, Warhol or the impressionist to name but a few.

Art and artists should always keep pushing their own boundaries. I think however dealing with death is always a sensitive subject matter. We can all relate to it too well and in some ways frown in disgust at a piece of this nature.

I think however, if done properly with all parties agreeing to try and capture a moment that is still a mystery to this day then it can indeed be art.

abaya

Well, I don't know about *watching* someone die, but I attended the Bodies exhibit when it was in Seattle (the plasticized human bodies, dissected for all to get a glimpse of our real inner workings--more biology than art, but still), and it was extremely popular (and pricey!). But it did not feel exploitative to me, assuming that the corpses were obtained in an ethical manner (something that is still up for debate, but that's another argument). The feeling I got was not that people were morbid and wanted to see corpses en masse... among everyone attending, there was a hushed sense of, "Wow... that's what we look like inside." It did feel like we were in a museum, and everyone was very respectful. Maybe the "art of dying" exhibit would be more like that?... I don't know.

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for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course.
--Khalil Gibran