fallenangel

Ok, as per Averett's last comment in Book Club, here it is, The official Virgin Suicides thread. If you're finished or even in the middle of reading it still, feel free to post away your thoughts and comments on the book.

I've finished it, and although it's probably not something i would've ordinarily grabbed off the bookshelf, i found myself unable to put it down. It has a certain way about it that i found drawn to and intrigued by. Perhaps the crazy narration is what did it for me. I'm very glad this was recommended because i love the fact that i got my lazy ass reading again and actually thinking about things other than work or emotional crap.

I think my favourite part about the book after reanalyzing it at the end, was the boys who told the story and the manner in which they described things in very real detail. Some of the little comments just cracked me up. I had a love/hate relationship with the details in which they described things that seemed very insignificant at the time, (ie the way the house smelled, or looked or anything like that). I thought it was stupid waste of good book space at first, but then i realized that describing things in detail was the essence of this book. It put YOU the reader there, in the narrator's place to give you a more vivid idea of what they were going through, (both the guys and the Lisbon girls).

I'll gab more later, just interested in seeing where everyone else is. Thanks

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all I wanna do is - give the best of me to you

Unga

Hrm I actually just watched it yesterday for the first time. I've never read the book though. Sadly I was a little confused at the end with the multiple suicides. :P

Untitled

This has been one of my favourite books for a long time. The subject matter is completely off-the-wall, but the manner in which Jeffrey Eugenides writes it is just so lyrical, I was mesmerized by the book. Absolutely amazing for a first novel....

I recently picked up his second novel called Middlesex, again with the same kind of odd-ball subject, but the same magnificent writing...

lisa

Never read the book, but i really loved the movie though, saw it several times already and would like to see it again any time ... it has this great atmosphere (not necessarily an optimistic one of course) wich sweeps you with it all the way throug...






ps. great sound track by Air btw

raeanna74

I found the whole thing very interesting.

It was hard NOT to relate to the girls. My parents were so completely controlling. I never dated until I was 18. I was interrogated whenever I left to go anywhere. I had to wear clothes like those girls wore to the dance. In fact I wouldn't have been allowed to go to a dance. I wasn't even allowed to listen to anything but classical and that protestant dirge music they described in the book. The descriptions of the world those girls lived in was so close in many ways to mine until I moved out at 24 that I found it hard not to absolutely LOATH their parents and the mother in particular.

I just found so much to relate to. As I read the book the restropectiveness that I had made me very melancholy. It did help me evaluate some of my responses to the prison I lived in. I think I know better now why I chose a boyfriend the first time who was abusive. The personality was much like I was used to. I'm glad I broke that pattern.

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"Always learn the rules so that you can break them properly." Dalai Lama
My Karma just ran over your Dogma.

lisa

okay, i gotta confess something to you girls....

i didn't know about your little book club so i didn't know this thread was related to that club, and here is where you girls will discuss the book you all read...
Sure, i saw the thread coming up everytime, but since i don't have time at the moment for reading (exams) i never opened it... so, that explains my dropping in as a complete dofus (starting out by saying i've never read teh book... d'oohhhhh!) Sorry about that! I think the whole book-club thing is a great idea, and i hope to join in next time (when exams are over) Have fun all!

fallenangel

hahaha, lisa, don't stress out about it hun, i'm not all worked up about it and i don't think any of the other ladies are. If you get a chance, go ahead and read it, cheers!

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all I wanna do is - give the best of me to you

Amethyst

okay my question is what do you think the author's point was when he was talking about Kyle's retainer? He went into great detail about finding the retainer and how he tried to flush it down the toliet and it kept coming up. He went into great detail about it but it never seem to go anywhere?

Fot thoose of you who still have the book it is on page 60.

raeanna74

Maybe it illistrated the loss of social concern that the father had developed. He didn't do the ordinary and return it. He was "thoughtless". He didn't care what society would do in that situation. He was in his own little world. Does that make sense?

Plus the end explains it a little.

__________________
"Always learn the rules so that you can break them properly." Dalai Lama
My Karma just ran over your Dogma.

Supple Cow

What I found particularly moving (in retrospect) was Cecilia's intense drive toward suicide and the way the rest of her sisters committed suicide as almost a tribute to her. If she hadn't succeeded with her beautiful and grotesque flight onto the fence post, her sisters never would have gone through with it. They didn't seem like the types to do it themselves, except maybe Lux (and her reasons would have been different). Most of the novel was dedicated to what I think was the preparation they each needed to go through with it for Cecilia. My first instinct was to call the whole novel an indulgent fantasy because who didn't have that ultimately selfish thought as a youngster? "They'll all be sorry when I'm dead..." But something about the way Cecilia's more inexplicable suicide drove the rest to pay tribute to her made it quite lovely. It was clear that Cecilia would have been the last person to want to kill herself just because it would make everyone sorry. She seemed very indifferent to her alienation from her town, as if it were deliberate. There is never any suggestion of a precise reason she does it, only that it isn't the same reason that one would initially suspect.

The movie was also entertaining, but a lot of the deeper meaning was lost (as is customary with movie versions of books).

__________________
"I've missed more than 9000 shots in my career. I've lost almost 300 games. Twenty-six times I've been trusted to take the game winning shot and missed. I've failed over and over and over again in my life. And that is why I succeed."
(Michael Jordan)

Amethyst

Okay there hasn't been much discussion about the book so here is a question for you. Feel free to answer. I will answer later.

Discuss the novel's narrative "we." What is the effect of a plural narrator? What are the narrator's characteristics? How does the narrator compare to other characters in the novel?
There u go have fun with it.

fallenangel

The narrative 'we' is great. It's not as common which makes you appreciate it a bit more. I think it does an excellent job of making the reader feel as if they were part of the 'we' as well, waiting to see the story unravel from different pieces of information, much similar to how the boys must felt when collaborating this story after the tragic suicides.

The narrator's characteristics vary from very adolescent to a mature man's point of view. I like it but i also find it a bit confusing at times. It's like the boys views from various points in time are sorta strung together in chronological order in the book while retelling in order. Does this make sense? The narrator IS another character in the novel... sounds silly but i find truth in it.

That's all i've got for now. thoughts?

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all I wanna do is - give the best of me to you

Amethyst

The narrator's characteristics vary from very adolescent to a mature man's point of view. I like it but i also find it a bit confusing at times. It's like the boys views from various points in time are sorta strung together in chronological order in the book while retelling in order. Does this make sense? The narrator IS another character in the novel... sounds silly but i find truth in it.

Yes, it makes sense to me. I also found it to be confusing at times espically at the end of the book when they where maturing as men. And I think that the narrator is another charcter in the novel. But is it all the boys or just one of them? What do u think?

fallenangel

I think maybe there's just one sorta main boy, and he relays the message for a few.

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all I wanna do is - give the best of me to you

Redgirl

Wow I am finally done with this book! It was very refreshing and I really enjoyed it.

I'm still trying to figure out what exactly the suicides represent but I thought it was really cool how the author makes you feel just as guilty as the narr about their deaths. Why didn't we DO something more to help them? It was like watching an accident in slow motion and being excited when we should be concerned about the people involved. The use of "we" makes you experience that guilt more than if the narr was a well defined character.

What I'm curious about is the purpose of the story. It's written as if they are doing this big investigation, almost like a trial is going on. They list exhibits and talk about interviews, but for what purpose? Is it a real event or just this one guys obsession that he's trying to finally put to rest through some kind of essay/diary? I sort of feel like there's judgement going on, maybe he's dead and this is his day of reckoning. Sorry, I'm reaching now! hehe...

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Thought for the day: Men are like fine wine. They start out as grapes, and it's up to the women to stomp the crap out of them until they turn into something acceptable to have dinner with.

Averett

Well... Sorry, but I wasn't into it. Maybe cause I was reading at work. Just wasn't my cup 'o tea.

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Absence is to love what wind is to fire. It extinguishes the small, it enkindles the great.

raeanna74

One thing I don't quite understand - IF the girls were planning their mass suicide when they were communicating with the boys then why did they persist in communicating? Did they see hope there? They knew the boys were coming later? Had they lost all hope? If they boys had come sooner would that have changed things? And lastly - Why did they pack a trunk, leading the boys to believe they wanted to leave? Did they want the boys to find them and be witnesses? Maybe they were afraid their parents wouldn't tell what had happened if no one actually found them.

I found the parallel between the Elm trees and the girls interesting. Here the trees were "denuded" of their branches. The Lisbon family was denuded of it's branches before the parents, the truck of that family tree, finally left. Were the girls protecting their parents in any way as they protected the tree? They never complained to anyone else about their parents. The could have. Cecelia could have explained to the psychologist how smothered the girls were and how confined. Also they tied YELLOW ribbons (a warning color) around the tree instead of red (a final color). Was that a suggestion of maybe saying that it was a last chance for the Lisbon family to come to life again, to come "home."

I also found it interesting that there is the suggestion of abuse when Lux came home after the prom.

In a way I found this a portrayal of how "benign" abuse can seem from the outside. It can simply seem like strict parenting and close protection of the child. A child who has grown up in it becomes accustomed to it and perhaps afraid of the "outside" and it's unfamiliarity. Abuse can have a pattern, life can be more unpredictable.

These are just some things I thought of while reading.

__________________
"Always learn the rules so that you can break them properly." Dalai Lama
My Karma just ran over your Dogma.

Amethyst

[QUOTE]Originally posted by raeanna74
[B]One thing I don't quite understand - IF the girls were planning their mass suicide when they were communicating with the boys then why did they persist in communicating?

Maybe they wanted the guys to try and talk them out of it or they wanted the boys to get there in time to stop them?Maybe they were just lonely and wanted some kind of outside communications with other people.

Did they see hope there?
Maybe, I would hope so.

Had they lost all hope?
I think they did loose all hope. If they hadn't maybe they wouldn't have committed suicide.

If they boys had come sooner would that have changed things?
I don't know I think they had there minds pretty much settled that they were going to kill themselves.

And lastly - Why did they pack a trunk, leading the boys to believe they wanted to leave?
I wondered the same thing. Why did they pack stuff if they were not leaving?

Did they want the boys to find them and be witnesses?
I think they did want the boys to be witnesses. I wondered what would happen if the boys had come a little earlier. They messed around alot outside. They should have gone in right away.

Maybe they were afraid their parents wouldn't tell what had happened if no one actually found them.
I don't think the parents would have told anyone they probably would have just left them in the house.

I found the parallel between the Elm trees and the girls interesting. Here the trees were "denuded" of their branches. The Lisbon family was denuded of it's branches before the parents, the truck of that family tree, finally left. Were the girls protecting their parents in any way as they protected the tree? They never complained to anyone else about their parents. The could have. Cecelia could have explained to the psychologist how smothered the girls were and how confined. Also they tied YELLOW ribbons (a warning color) around the tree instead of red (a final color). Was that a suggestion of maybe saying that it was a last chance for the Lisbon family to come to life again, to come "home."
i found the yellow ribbon to be a big *hello* to everyone in the neighboorhood and no one got it they all just kept to themselves.


I would have also liked to hear more from the sister that lived. How she felt? Why they decided to do it? Why didn't they go more into what had happened to her in the hospital. And what about the exhibits? I looked in the book and there was no exhibits?

Amethyst

Heres another good question.
Compare and contrast Lux Lisbon and Trip Fontaine. What is the significance of their relationship? Why does it matter that Lux made love to Trip instead of one of the neighborhood boys who narrate the novel?


Okay go for it girls.

fallenangel

This is the type of question i wanted to kick my old English prof for, but secretly i lived for it, because i have a love/hate relationship with these kind of questions. lol. I'll answer when I've got a chance to sit down and organize my thoughts.

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all I wanna do is - give the best of me to you

sexymama

It took me forever to obtain a copy of the book (long boring story) and I'm just now almost done reading it. I love it!

I think "we" is used because the story is more about the boys then the girls. The boys are trying to understand everything: what was going on for the girls, what was going on for themselves, why they didn't act, why they did act, how it effects who they are now and who they were then, etc. The voices change as each of the "we's" take turns narrating/talking.

A small (very small) part of me thinks the story is about how once suicide effects so many people. Cecelia's death literally and figuratively brought about the death of the family and ultimately the death of her sisters. It also caused something to die within the boys and the town itself.

So many thoughts struggling in my head to be expressed, and I can't seem to put them all into words. I'm just glad I read the book and hope we do another "book club" soon.

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If you can go deeply into lovemaking, the ego disappears. That is the beauty of lovemaking, that it is another source of a glimpse of god

It's not about being perfect; it's about developing some skill at managing imperfection.

pinkie

Your thoughts on this book really make me want to read it. I've seen the movie a few times, and really liked it.

I agree so much with the end of your post, about abuse. So true.