Does the Desert Eagle suck?
 

Jinn - it is rather strange that you would choose to criticise the best quality big handgun which is made.

I suppose you want to be "edgy" and "counter-intuitive" by making unexpected comments - but in all seriousness - the Desert Eagle is a premium weapon - capable of shooting a man to death who is the other side of an interior wall.

He's not being edgy or counter-intuitive at all. Desert Eagles are heavy, overpriced, tactically-useless, unreliable, and have low magazine capacity. They are not used by any combat or police force that I am aware of, and are primarily owned by posers with more dollars than cents, or ironically.

The Deagle's a horrible overweight, overpenetrating, underperforming piece of crap. The only thing I can see it genuinely useful for other than an "OSHITABEAR" emergency backup is for some kind of pseudo anti-material purpose and even then I'm pretty sure there is something else would work better. I thought it would be cool to make a magazine fed revolver and even I know this.

You guys keep him for the same reason someone might have a Judge loaded with flares, for entertainment, right?

From his posting history in this subforum (and being from the UK), he doesn't seem to have any real gun experience, but somewhere along the lines lost his saving throw vs. IMI propaganda. It's kind of like a guy arguing with a bunch of girls about what vibrator is best based on what he's seen in porn.

Woah now, lets not badmouth the wrong company. Israeli Weapon Industries just made one or two last minute changes before taking the contract to manufacture them, the gun was Magnum Research's design. Blaming the Israelis for this one is kinda like blaming a fab lab in china for your pentium thinking .49999958 is close enough when talking about caliber.

Perhaps I know less about vibrators than telekinetic, I dont know what his knowledge base is, but no girl I was seeing has ever needed one as far as I'm aware

But thats not got anything to do with guns.

The fact I have never fired a gun doesnt mean that I dont have an opinion about them, just the same as I dont need to wrestled a pitbull to know thata 300 lbs is stronger than a 100 lbs dog.

It is widely accepted by all experts in the field that IMI are the best gun manufacturer in the world. The Desert Eagle is an iconic and extremely powerful hand gun. IMI make more reliable smaller handguns, but in the aspect the Desert Eagle is designed for - the maximum power for a handgun - it is second to none. The wide usage of this gun in video games and movies is evidence of its peerless design and functioning capability.

My god it's like popping a front-wheelie on a bicycle right before endoing, I know what's going to happen but I just can't stop myself...

A titanium machete weighs a lot less than a wrought iron one and you can use the former to cut the latter in half...

Being a great manufacturer means their parts quality and QA is great, it doesn't mean that someone else's terrible design will magically stop sucking. If it worked like that we could end world hunger by having McDonalds touch everything and suddenly everyone would get fat.

IWI (they changed names) does design some of their own guns and they usually are pretty damn good given what's required of them, but the Deagle was not one of their in-house designs.

Furthermore it's not the maximum power for a handgun as there are many others of greater power, higher caliber or both.

Lastly the wide use of it in videogames and movies means really fuck all since pretty much every videogame will alter performance to suit game balance needs and movies will also show you able to fire any gun for pretty much as long as you want without reloading. According to movies the Mac10 has the highest magazine capacity of any man-portable weapon in existence since characters regularly fire upwards of 5,000 rounds from them before reloading.

Name one. Name me an expert in the field who has said this. Citations would be nice, but let's just hear the name.

You're way behind the times. Ever heard of the Smith & Wesson X-Frame revolvers? The .500 and .460 S&W Magnums are both vastly more powerful, the .500 Magnum horribly unpleasantly so. With a 325-grain projectile, the .50 Action Express generates 1229 ft/lbs of energy at the muzzle, which is quite a lot. However, the .460 develops 2826 ft/lbs with a 300-grain bullet, and the .500 gets 3031 ft/lbs from a 350-grain bullet. So using projectiles in the same weight-for-charge range, the .50 Action Express (the Desert Eagle's primary round) is at a nearly 3/1 disadvantage. Both of these hip-howitzers have been around for about five years now. They're not good for much except bear protection and long-range big-game handgun hunting (popular for wild hogs, elk, etc), but they're -very- good for that.

I dont think there is any gun which can be used one handed by an average person which has the same power. Obviously you could shoot a shotgun one handed and claim its a more powerful handgun, but youd likely break your wrist or something.

What in the world made you think an average person can use the Desert Eagle effectively with one hand? Watching Snatch one too many times? It's not designed for that, and most people are simply not -capable- of that. Trust me on this one, Strange; I'm the guy who gets the trade-ins. And by the way, who's that expert I asked about? Answer the question, if you please.

The experts I speak of are the professionals who actually use guns - rather than private individuals who have to take into account things like cost that lead them to buy a cheap Austrian gun like a Glock for example

For example, you only need to check Wikipedia:

"The Uzi has been exported to over 90 countries.[2] Over its service lifetime, it has been manufactured by Israel Military Industries, FN Herstal, and other manufacturers. From the 1960s through the 1980s, Uzi submachineguns were sold to more military and police markets than any other submachinegun ever made."

I suppose those people bought Uzi's because it was the best gun made by the best manufacturer.

Would you deny that Israel is the best equipped military force in the middle east? No doubt this is because they have access to IMI weapons

You mean like soldiers, cops, professional competition shooters, gun-shop owners, gunwriters...? Name one.

You mean like the IDF...the Israeli Defense Force? You know...the lads and lassies who carry Glocks. You've been caught spouting this before, y'know: Wikipedia supports that the 941 is issued to the Israeli Security Forces. However, this is the Israeli equivalent of Scotland Yard or the FBI. The IDF issues and fields the Glock Mdls 17 and 19, which are also the most popular weapons among reservists according to my suppliers at FAB Defense and MAKO Group in Tel-Aviv. And as for private shooters having to take cost into account: you have no idea how much help and sponsorship a truly competitive shooter can get in the US, do you? Suffice it to say that if Todd Jarrett or Rob Leatham was to endorse IMI and use a Jericho in races and demos, they'd be all set. Gun, mods, clothes, mags and ammo: all paid for. Gun companies pay these guys a lot of money to advertise their product and use it in international competition. Ask yourself why, if the Glock/1911/CZ is so inferior, are the pros using it and not the IMI? Especially when any gun company in the industry, IMI included, would happily crunch their own balls in a vise to get an endorsement like that?

As for your wikipedia link: yes, the Uzi may have been the most widely exported handgun from 1960-1980. However, as you've perhaps noticed, it is not 1980. It is now 2010, and the Uzi has largely been left in the market's dust. HK ate their lunch a long time ago.

Not for a moment.

No, this is because they have access to American money, weapons, and technology at cut-rate prices or for free.

I'm calling Troll here unless you can produce some actual sources. Names, links, articles, something to back up what you say. Produce an expert: lots of people in Tilted Weaponry read the international tactical/law-enforcement press, you'd be surprised who's names we'd recognize.

If you dont believe it from me, go and read the wikipedia page for IWI

Obviously people have different opinions about what the best is, but clearly anyone who knows about guns would agree that IWI are amongst the most respected manufacturers.

If anyone is trolling, it is the guy claiming the Desert Eagle is a hopeless gun. It may be true that there are some other guns of similar power, but the differences are not material . The Desert Eagle has been reported to have caused fatality of someone shot through a wall - this is as much power as anyone needs. A Glock might be a good target shooting gun

But in fact a gun that is good for accuracy may not have the most power. This trade off between power/accuracy is well known amongst gun experts. So for a target shooter perhaps a Glock is suitable for them. For a person who wants a gun for self defence or criminal violence then they would probably prefer a gun they know has the power to kill whatever threat they face.

Name one. You know, like you said: someone who uses guns for a living. A soldier, a cop, a professional competitive shooter, a gun-shop owner, and gun-magazine writer, SOMEBODY.


Then I'm sure you'll have no trouble at all finding a few examples of military or police units which use the .50 Desert Eagle. Since, after all, they are very much interested in self defense and criminal violence.

So have .22 squirrel-guns. So have .38 Specials, .380s, 9x19, .40 S&W, 10mm, .45 ACP...

Face it, Strange, you can't produce any sources to back up your assertions because there aren't any. You insist that experts back you up, but can't name any. You insist that the .50AE is a superior round for self-defense against criminals, but I'll bet you anything you like you'll not be able to find a single police or military unit, anywhere in the world, that uses it. Even the IDF, your boys/girls in Israel, use Glock 17s in 9x19mm. You have no argument, and you're no longer even any fun to play with. I'm done.

No, I dont say a Desert E .50AE is necessarily the best gun to use in self defence or criminal violence, just that it is the best at what it is supposed to be - an over powered handgun which has a stylish appearance.

And in fact all I would need to do to prove my case in this discussion is to prove that it isnt the worst gun at what it does, which is what this thread is supposed to be about.

Quote from "Guns of the Matrix" by Mad Ogre, emphasis mine.

THE GUNS OF THE MATRIX

Credentials of author:
Also, here's an "Ask a Rabbi" article about whether a Desert Eagle is a good purchase:
(again, emphasis mine)
GunOwnersAlliance.com - Ask the Rabbi: Desert Eagle .50 AE

Rabbi Mermelstein's qualifications:

You genuinely give credibility to the claim that one of "mad ogre's" qualifications to speak about this subject is "I am an American"?

The guy is entitled to an opinion, but I would say one quite strong argument against him being a credible voice is that his name is "Mad Ogre"

He is just a guy, who has an opinion. As the Rabbi clearly admits also to being.

This is an honest question here...are you intentionally trolling at this point?

I am pointing out that this character is listing some things about himself:

1 - he owned a cgun
2 - he is part of a gun club
3 - he has at some point trained bodyguards
4 - he is American
5 - he used to be in the army

You have stated that these are his "credentials" by which I should take seriously his negative opinion of the Desert Eagle

To state my case more clearly, I can say

1 - gun ownership in America is not remarkable
2 - being a member of the NRA doesnt signify any special knowledge, just that he has paid a membership fee
3 - training bodyguards might require some knowledge of how to use a gun tactically, but no particular knowledge of how guns work or which is best
4 - I dont see the relevance of this point at all, perhaps you will advise why this is a credential? Or perhaps just accuse me of "trolling"
5 - Being in the army I would imagine you are restricted to army issue weapons. He would have to have a good working knowledge of one or two particular guns that were issued to him - in terms of how to clean it etc, but not real technical knowledge about guns in general

Now, this "Ogre" guy might know a lot about guns, but nothing he said or that you have said about him gives me the reason to think so. The Rabbi sounded far more knowledagble, and what he stated was that in his personal opinion the Desert Eagle wasnt a good gun for use in self defence because it was tempermental and required a lot of looking after

And you know, a Ferrari requires a lot more looking after than a Ford. That doesnt mean that in every way a Ford is a better motor than a Ferrari, does it?

So if you do not consider NRA member, gun owner, pistol instructor, personal protection instructor, and former Light Infantryman valid qualifications for evaluating a firearm, what exactly would you consider? You have provided no more qualified opinions other than your own hearsay, and you lack all of the above.

He said that it had poor ergonomics, that there were better alternatives with similar power, and that it was unreliable to the point that he would never consider owning one. He didn't say anything about self defense, other than the fact that it was in response to a question regarding one.

Who do you think has gotten more military contracts, Ford or Ferrari? Ferraris, while completely impractical, at least wins races with their cars, while no one serious uses Desert Eagles in any kind of competition. Unless you were just trying to equate them to each other as 'expensive impractical toys', which I'll happily concede.

Do you even know what you're arguing any more? You've evolved your stance from:

("it's the best quality!")
("It's made by the best company, and it's iconic, with peerless design and function!")
(It's the most powerful!)
("Maybe some other guns are as powerful. But it's powerful enough to shoot through a wall! It may not be accurate, but it has enough power for self defense and those intending criminal violence to kill people with!")

A side note here: Because of the fixed barrel design, these pistols (when loaded with the right ammo) are actually quite accurate...on the first shot. Due to their size and weight, and the power of the 50AE, getting back on target for follow up shots, however, is slow and difficult, compared to conventional calibers. Sorry for the actual firearm information threadjack.

("I didn't say it was the best...just that it's powerful and stylish. And that it isn't the worst!")

So which is it: It's the best, or it's not the worst? Or it's the best at "what it's supposed to be," which is a bit ambiguous? What exactly is it the best at? What situation, exactly, is it a better tool for than any other more mainstream firearm? Or are you, in a roundabout way, conceding that it's an interesting looking toy, but completely useless as a working gun, thus giving complete credence to the fact that it is primarily owned by people who don't plan on using their guns for any useful purpose beyond going 'bang'.

I've provided what I consider to be expert opinions on the subject matter (although The_Dunedan's is equally qualified, in my mind), I would like to see you produce some of your own.

I cannot imagine that anybody uses a gun for any other purpose than to go "bang" or carry the threat of doing so.

I am stating that the Desert E is the best gun of its type in terms of design.
That in material terms it more powerful or as powerful as any other gun
That because it is made by one of the best manufacturers of small arms, it is of the highest quality

Yes, because it is such a big beast there is some trade off in terms of its accuracy and the level of care needed for it, but this is the same for any very powerful gun.

So let's review.

The Desert Eagle is very accurate, has a detachable magazine, and fires a very powerful round.

However:

The ergonomics are hardly practical for fast reactions.
It is too powerful to be practical for defense against humans.
It is too unreliable to be practical for defense against anything big enough to require such a powerful round.

Therefore:

Yes. Except for a very limited number of applications (handgun hunting on non-dangerous game, long-range target shooting) the Desert Eagle sucks. In all respects, it is totally outclassed by large revolvers offered by Smith & Wesson, Colt, Ruger, and even IMI (with the BFR.)

Then why are you even engaging in this discussion?

Reasons people need a gun other than going 'bang' (also known as plinking):

IPSC competitions
Home/business defense
Self Defense
Military use
Law enforcement use
Professional personal protection
Hunting

The Desert Eagle is ill-suited to all of these with the possible exception of the last, and that only because hunters enjoy a challenge. People will try hunting with anything (crossbows? bows? Absurd revolvers? 22 pistols?), particularly if it adds to the difficulty!

What does that mean? What is it designed to do, that it is the best at?
Measurably false. 500 S&W Magnum, .454 Casull and the .460 S&W Magnum are all more powerful. In 50AE, it might have the dubious niche title of "highest ft/lbs of force produced by a large-run production semiautomatic handgun when loaded with handloaded hot ammunition". It's not even the only gun in that caliber, though.

OK. It's made by a good manufacture. Does that make it a "good gun" (meaningless without a context of something it is 'good at'), or counteract its known unreliability or pickiness about ammunition? An unreliable design manufactured with high-quality processes doesn't magically become more reliable.
Again, a lack of accuracy is ironically the one this pistol is not accused it of--Because of the fixed barrel, it can be very accurate. Statements like this show you are just talking out of your ass, rather than relaying any kind of actual knowledge. Unless you can you outline WHY exactly we are accusing it of being unreliable, your assertions that these factors are invalid don't carry much weight (there are specific reasons inherent to the design that make it unreliable). Your apologies for its lack of accuracy show you do not understand its design. I'm not sure what else to add here.

---------- Post added at 03:06 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:18 PM ----------

For the peanut gallery, and Strange Famous, a quick lesson in the Desert Eagle's action:

http://www.remtek.com/arms/imi/desert/44/cutaway.gif

The tealish barrel assembly is fixed to the brown frame. There is a thin passage through the barrel assembly all the way to the end, which allows gases produced by a cartridge's ignition to push back a piston, green. What's not totally clear from this cutaway view is that the green piston is attached to the green bolt/slide assembly outside the frame, and those two parts are the only bits of the pistol that recoil. Here is a picture of it in its 'cocked' condition (pardon the watermark) which shows how the piston is attached to the bolt and slide:
http://thumb11.shutterstock.com.edge...ck-1565268.jpg

Here's a picture from the patent that makes it more clear:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...nt_4619184.png

The advantage to this mechanism is the barrel remains fixed at all times, improving accuracy, and you can use high power rounds which would overpower a more traditional cycling method. The disadvantage is that you have a thin gas inlet to a tiny gas pathway right next to your feed ramp, and if your ammunition has a particularly 'dirty' burn, or if the projectile is soft enough that small fragments might be scraped off as the bullets are chambered, this passage can become blocked, and the pistol will stop feeding new rounds.

Edit: I forgot, a second disadvantage is your pistol needs to be large and heavy to accommodate the gas piston mechanism.

It is quite simple really to understand why the accuracy is questionable. Because of the power the gun has a powerful kick and it is harder to aim and fire rapidly.

It apparently ISN'T simple, as you don't seem to understand it. Rate of fire has nothing to do with accuracy, and (as long as someone is an experienced shooter who hasn't developed a trigger-flinch) neither does power or 'kick'.

The kick and weight make it harder to bring quickly to a target, and bring back to a target for followup shots, but the design of the gun is inherently MORE accurate than, say, a Glock/1911/etc...on par with revolvers, in fact, if not slightly better, due to lack of variability caused by the forcing cone.

Here is a Desert Eagle modified with a longer barrel and scope for either long range target shooting or hunting, specifically because of the inherent accuracy.

http://svr79.ehostpros.com/~a11com79...h_ult_hunt.gif

This gave me a good laugh, thank you.

Respectfully SF, why do you keep taking up arguments which are not only wrong but completely ignorant?

The Desert Eagle is not 'one of the best quality big handguns made.' Nor is the popularity of the Desert Eagle in media evidence of its quality. You forget that in the media, silencers make a 'pew' sound, good guys can hit anything while diving and running, and nobody ever needs to reload. However, in real life, the majority of suppressed guns are many dBs above the hearing threshold of pain(with the exception of some subsonic round/suppressor combos) and it's also near impossible to shoot accurately while moving.

Which is to say, the media knows squat about firearms and a firearm's popularity with the media is not an accurate barometer of its design.

Again I'm going to have to differ from both of your opinions here and point out that it's not that difficult to do better than someone whose primary strategy is to run at the enemy and then blow themselves up.

SF how many guns have you shot to compare to shooting the DE50? To make all of the claims that you make, you need to post your own qualifications for making these claims when you are discredditng others. I've shot a good number of different weapons, I prefer Smith and Wesson because they make quality products and have good customer service. What are your experiences with iWI?

I have never fired a gun in my life... as a UK citizen this is not surprising.

I dont know why there is this obsession with thinking you have to practically have done something to have knowledge about it.

Because it's usually true--and in this instance, demonstrably so.

Arguing that you shouldn't have to have to have experience to have knowledge about something rings a little hollow in a thread where your opinions (presented as unnamed expert-sourced knowledge, which, when pressed, you refuse to provide citations for) about the topic in question have been systematically and comprehensively proven to be false, over and over.

How have I been proven wrong?

I stated that the Desert E was not the worst gun of its kind, and most people in this thread agree with me.

Through the application of common sense and widely accepted knowledge, one can come to the correct and factual conclusions without having to have fired weapons yourself. In fact you will see on the weapons forum many times when I have had to correct errors made by people who have far more practical experience than me.

BAHAHAHAHAHAAAA!

Oh GAWD you're funny! Please, please, I'm begging you; what are these errors? Who were these people you "corrected?" I'm dying to know, Strange; show us where you "corrected" all these people and who they were. Be specific and show the sources/links. You've now made a demonstrable claim that is 103% bullshit, and I'm calling you on it.

Here's a hint: When you're asserting that something is "common sense" and you find that this "something" is rejected universally by people who work in a given field or who are recognized as authorities therein by those who do, it's probably -not- "common sense." Likewise, when you assert that something is "widely accepted knowledge" but find that, again, it is rejected by experts/authorities in the field, it's a clue that either your "knowledge" is not widely accepted or that your "knowledge" is crap. And since you've yet to produce any support whatsoever, from any quarter, for any of your ridiculous ideas, you might wish to consider where this motivates informed people to file your "knowledge".

I retract my previous statements.

SF's opinions are valid due to the mere fact that he has gone to the trouble of forming them. He needs to offer no support of his arguments and opinions; he weighs 300 lbs. Should any of you express an opinion formed through personal experience or professional training, know that your opinions are no more valid than SFs. If any of you are unenlightened enough to ask SF to support anything he says, you obviously are lacking in the application of common sense and widely accepted knowledge. Armed with a stout wooden staff, he is more than capable of killing a 100 lbs pit bull (he weighs 300 lbs) whilst pleasuring any and all women he encounters. Were he not so busy correcting errors of folks who possess more practical experience than he does, he would single handedly put the UK vibrator manufacturers out of business.

You all should be ashamed (I'm looking at you Dunedan).

Well put.

But SF has been pretty successful as far as 12 year old trolls go ....

Moving the goalposts, really? Are you lying about your original point to try to avoid admitting you were wrong, or do you actually somehow believe that anyone in this thread agrees with you about anything regarding the Desert Eagle? Let me just state to remove all ambiguity: I do not agree with anything you have said about the Desert Eagle in this thread.

At this point I am no longer assuming good faith on your part, as I can't comprehend someone with your posts in this thread looking at the replies and declaring 'most people in this thread agree with me' without being intentionally trolling (that is, lying intentionally to stir up controversy) or so disconnected from reality that nothing else I/we post will be able to penetrate your bubble of delusion.

Walk with me through three of your post fragments, in chronological order...

Enhance!
ENHANCE!
So, based on this...am I correct in saying that, in your mind, "best" and "second to none" are suddenly synonymous with 'not the worst'?

In that case, I am the world's best lover, the world's best MMA fighter, the world's best pickup artist, and my ability to fly jets and my personal net worth are second to none. :thumbsup:

If you cut and paste three word quotes you can make almost anything up. I think it is quite clear what I have said, and it is pretty hard for anyone to dispute it

(hence all of these comments about vibrators, calling me a 12 year old troll, etc)

The Desert Eagle is the best designed weapon in its class in terms of its appearance. This is subjective, and some would disagree - but the fact that so many video games and movies use this shooter it shows that a lot of people agree with me

The Desert Eagle is the maximum power range of a single handed pistol. There may be some very expensive and specially modified guns that have theoretically more power, but the Desert E has as much power as it is materally comprehensible for a firearm of this kind to possess

I state quite simply that the Desert E is the best in these criteria, which are the criteria it iself aims to be judged by

Because it is made by IWI it also happens to be exceptionally well engineered.

_

As a target practice pistol is it the best? No

But to carry on the analogy others have used, that would be like saying a vibrator is useless because it cannot bring a woman the same level of sexual satisfaction that I can.

This is true, but to women who are single and who have boyfriends who are not skillful lovemakers - vibrators may prove valuable indeed for the job intended.

I've stayed out of this discussion so far, but can't take it anymore.

I have been a gun owner for over 25 years. I have had extensive tactical training with a handgun in the private sector.

I know absolutely nothing about the DE. Never shot one, nor care to. Not knowing anything about it, I can't possibly put forth an opinion that should be taken seriously.

This is something that you need to learn strange. You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about, and are being proven wrong consistantly by people who actually do know what they are talking about. One can only assume that you are trolling, hence the comments.

What does a video game have to do with real life weapons? How does using one in a virtual/fictional setting give you any knowledge about it in the real world?

Don't forget "obese".

We're still waiting, Strange.

SF, you're just a troll.

I'm sure you do appreciate the aesthetics of firearms from the standpoint of anyone who watches Hollywood films or videogames ... but, unlike most folks, you don't seem to acknowledge that the real world is much different.

As you have never so much as handled or even touched a firearm in your life - your opinion on the matter is about as relevant as sex advice from a virgin who only watches porn.

As a couple of examples I had to explain to a number of people how a man and a dog would interact in a fight, and also what weapons could kill a bear

I have never shot a bear or beaten up a dog - but I am still able to apply facts in a logical way to draw conclusions which are sound.

Ah. So by "facts" you mean the nonsensical opinions that habitually you pull from your ass and by "corrected" you mean to say that you offered an opinion that you were completely unable (or unwilling) to support when asked to do so?

you can draw all the conclusions that you want, but when you are proven wrong by actual experts in the field then it's pretty much game over. But you insist that your non existant experience beats actual experts, and that's just silly.

... and just as hairbrained as every other opinion you've voiced.

I havent as far as I can recall ever reported any post on this board, but that is completely uncalled for. You have no right to make such insuations about me.

And as for the comment you are quoting - I think the people who answered it were well aware that I was not asking because I wished to do so, but because I was made uncomfortable about the behaviour of another member (who is now banned) and wanted to seek clarification on the rules.

---

-+-{Important TFP Staff Message}-+- This thread is dangerously close to being closed, and multiple people are contributing to that fact. If this discussion can't remain civil, it will be ended and more infractions may be handed out.

SF do I apologize for any false insinuations but I merely state the fact that many of your opinions in Tilted Weaponry have not been well received by people with real world experience (myself included). That is a fact.

But I stand by my earlier statement:

I'm sure you do appreciate the aesthetics of firearms from the standpoint of anyone who watches Hollywood films or videogames ... but, unlike most folks, you don't seem to acknowledge that the real world is much different.

As you have never so much as handled or even touched a firearm in your life - your opinion on the matter is about as relevant as sex advice from a virgin who only watches porn.

SF, the entire thread is right here in plain english, and anyone who can read can see you've changed your claims repeatedly. I've done nothing to distort the meaning of the words in those quotes. Your repeated moving of the goal posts is not going unnoticed by everyone reading this thread, and your claims that you aren't doing so, intentionally or not, are plain out bullshit--at this point there is no other word for it.

You are claiming something you admit is subjective as an objective fact, and then providing irrelevant evidence. It's a distinctive pistol, and is visually identifiable due to being so big and clunky...that's mostly why they're used in media. However, that has nothing to do with its quality or performance.

No, it isn't, even ignoring the 'single handed' quip. You are wrong--'power' isn't some arbitrary thing we can wax philosophical about, it's a force measured in foot-pounds. Reread the post by The_Dunaden--in it he points out:

Desert Eagle with 50AE: 1229 ft/lbs
Smith & Wesson X-Frame in .500: 3031 ft/lbs

In black and white, the X-Frame has almost 3 times as much power as the Desert Eagle. Done. End of story. No room for argument.

I thought you were claiming price was no object, and derided people who needed to take things like cost into account (purchases of lesser Austrian guns, I think you said) as not the target market for the DE.

In any case, you're wrong about this, too. Here's a link to two currently for sale for price comparison:

An X Frame .500 for $1125 "buy it now": Smith&Wesson Model 500 X-Frame : Revolvers at GunBroker.com

A Desert Eagle in 50AE for $1500 "buy it now": Magnum Research Desert Eagle Polished 50 AE .50 : Semi-auto at GunBroker.com

So no, you are wrong about this also.

So, in this post, you've narrowed your criteria for the DE being the "best" to something we can objectively discuss, that is:
1) Most attractive design (completely subjective)
2) Most powerful (completely false)

At least you've defined your terms concretely now, in phrasing which will make it hard to backpedal from.

It wasn't engineered by IWI. It was engineered by Magnum Research. And it is a design with some inherent flaws which have been pointed out.

It would appear I'm just trying to be contrary now, but long range pistol target practice is one of the few uses for it that I would consider it well suited and totally legitimate. So we disagree about this as well.

Finally, I have absolutely no idea what you're trying to say in your contorted vibrator analogy (clearly mine went over your head), so I won't even bother quoting it.

SF, this really seems like an utter troll thread.
If it wasn't, you might have stimulated a nice interesting discussion by saying something like "I was having a discussion with a friend recently and told him that i thought that the Desert Eagle in .50 AE was the best personal defense handgun and was totally badass, but he said he didn't think it was good for that. As i come from a country where there is significantly less 'gun culture' and people with experience with defensive handguns in general, I wondered, what do you guys think?"
It seems like you don't actually want to listen to reason, or provide any sources, so in my mind you call up your friends, get everyone together to watch a rousing game of "Let's bait the Yanks" by saying something ridiculous.

I'm not sure that this thread really accomplished anything but it was very entertaining and provided me with a lot of laughs. Thank you to all involved.

My God!!! This has to be THE most hilarious thread ever on TFP. I vote to move this to Titled Humor ASAP!!

I'll second the motion but only if he buys me one of those austrian guns, they're pretty cheap I hear.

The point the TK is I think missing is that I didnt talk of power in some abstract scientific sense, I spoke of it in terms in which it was materially comprehensible as defined by the usage of a hand gun.

Now, if a Desert E has 1500 lbs/foot power and the Swith and Weston X Framce has 3000 lbs/foot -we can all see that 3000 is a bigger number than 1500. I propose that I might bring into the equation a rifle that is designed for shooting elephants that perhaps has 4500 lbs/foot power

But in terms of the real situation that a handgun would be used in, 1500 lbs/foot is above the maximum power that a handgun can affectly harness in usage. The gun with 3000 lbs/foot simply wastes 1500 lbs of power because it will never perform any function which would not be done equally as well by 1500.

Just wanted to reiterate

Hey, let's see how the gun feels about all of this bullshit:

http://i919.photobucket.com/albums/a...tEagleTalk.jpg

Well, you heard it, folks. The truth from the source.

/thread

Thank you

Did you just type "some abstract scientific sense?" I have no idea what the hell the rest of this quote means, other than to say I weigh more than you--Not in some abstract scientific sense, but in terms which it is materially comprehensible as defined by the usage of weight. :orly:

There you go, pretending 1500 ft-lbs has some practical function again.

What is this 'real situation'?

What is this function?

You state that 1500 ft-lbs is "above the maximum power a handgun can affectly [sic] harness". What power DO you feel a handgun can effectively harness? I'd appreciate some links to data backing your opinion up, otherwise it's just an uninformed opinion.

You're actually unintentionally arguing AGAINST the 50AE Desert Eagle by admitting it's more power than can be 'harnessed' usefully.

Either more power is better, in which case you should go with the X-Frame, or more power than is needed to perform a useful task is overkill, in which case the Desert Eagle isn't justifiable over the 500 ft-lbs of the far more versatile and useful .45ACP, or the even more powerful (but still relatively mainstream) 640 ft-lbs of 10mm. Which is it?

Thats an interesting suggestion, although my own view is that I use more of my weight than you use of yours.

My view is that the ability to shoot and kill someone through a internal wall is the most anyone can expect of a handgun. We have heard that a Glock did this from another poster, I suspect it is possible if the wall is made of plasterboard or cardboard. I am talking about shooting and killing/maiming through a supporting wall in an average bricks and mortar house.

I hesitate to present two points, as it feels like I'm wasting my words, since so far you've got a track record of only replying to one point at a time and ignoring the rest.

1. Can you provide any documentation or videos showing the 50AE's ability to penetrate brick and mortar and still inflict lethal injury?

Here is a penetration test done on wood, where the 50AE has the same penetration as .357, and FAR less than the X-Frame Smith and Wesson caliber's we've already mentioned.



2. What possible purpose would shooting through a brick wall and killing someone on the other side have in the real world? If someone is on the other side of a brick wall from me, I have no need to shoot them, as they are not a threat. Furthermore, even with an interior wall, it is criminally negligent to shoot at something without positive target identification, which (unless you can see through a brick wall) you will not have. Finally, ignoring the above, I do not know how you intend to fire usefully through a wall, allowing for the path deviations, and still make a useful centermass hit.

My ideal handgun round, if I were able to craft one, would penetrate clothes and soft tissue, abruptly expand to the size of a jagged silver dollar, cause massive hydrostatic shock and permanent tissue deformation, and transfer all of its kinetic energy to the target--meaning no exit wound, the slug would remain in the target. It would also somehow dissolve into a fine harmless powder the instant it struck glass or drywall. It certainly would not penetrate brick.

1) Once again, you are speaking in absolutes. I dare you to cite a source. Any source.

2) Once again, (as TK pointed out), you are moving the goal posts.

3) I'm going to go out on a limb here and suggest that you have absolutely no idea as to the causes of penetrating power. (Double entendre unintentional, yet applicable). Ft/lbs has VERY little to do with it.

Good point. A long, pointy bullet will penetrate better than a short, fat bullet of the same weight and/or speed. Pounds/feed is a measure of the kinetic energy imparted into the round. That energy -helps- determine how well something will penetrate, but isn't nearly as important as the design of the projectile itself. This is why the 5.7x28FN will penetrate body-armor rated to stop a .44 Magnum (which has more than 3x the kinetic energy but is also more than 2x as wide). However, because heavier bullets -retain- their energy better, the .44 will blow through a human torso without difficulty, while the 5.7x28 will come to a dead stop in around 10-12" of soft tissue. But there again, the two rounds are designed to do two different things: the .44 is for blowing big holes in unarmored Bad Guys or dangerous animals, the 5.7x28 is for blowing several smaller holes very quickly in armored Bad Guys without excessive penetration.

You mean it's easier to stab someone with a knife than it is a sledge hammer? Holy schnikes!

...

Say, this thread reminds me of an applicable joke:

You know how to get a dog to stop humping your leg? Pick him up and suck his dick.

Don't pick up the dog, guys.

look, I have actually gotten trouble for flaming strange famous before, But frankly I cannot sit here and listen to this.... I am sorry, and I will try to be civil, but Strange famous, every single time you post about firearms, you make it VERY clear to anyone who has ever owned or shot a firearm that you do not even have a basic grounding in anything relating to any gun, much less IMI's products....just ....stop... please, unless you WANT to do nothing but troll and make people angry, please go and get some basic training...you are in england, but can still join a rifle club or something, and thus have the option to learn about the subject first hand... or hell, just READ about the subject from some objective source,,, please, you have a right to an opinion, but right is right, and you are , once again, wrong.......

First of, just have to say, this thread is perhaps one of the funniest things I've read in a long time. That said....

Everything I've heard about the DE outside of bad action movies says it's a piece of crap. The problems I've heard about are a tendency to jam, a total bitch to maintain, and with the top side ejector, if you hold it to low or close in, you end up with a red hot shell casing smacking you in the face. On top of that, a gun that size is just an unwieldy monster. Trying to put a round on target in a high stress situation with that thing just strikes me as being easier said then done. As for the raw power of it, who needs it, really? Why in the name of all that is holy would you want a gun of that size? I live in a condo, and if I am forced to use my gun, the last thing I want to worry about is killing the person that lives in the next unit. No, i can't say I would ever feel the need to own one of these things.

Same here, except I'm at 17 years, not 25 years. Strange...buddy...you couldn't possibly know what you are talking about. The general knowledge and understanding which comes from the keeping and bearing arms can not be replicated in books, videos, or video games. You are at a disadvantage, living in the UK, which you cannot possibly compensate for through extensive reading and videos. It's unfortunate, but undeniable.

Having fired a DE, I know that I would NEVER own one, much less depend on it in a life threatening situation. The only thing they are good for is watching Angelina Jolie's tits giggle during recoil.

I've said my piece, Strange, I recommend you make a trip across the pond and spend a week at the range. You can shoot anything you want for as long as you can afford it. I guarantee you will walk away from the experience agreeing the DE is "practically" useless.

One point you left out, look at the position of the spring in the magazine. It's toward the front with the bullets above the follower angled slightly to the sides and with the front tilted up. Even with the gas system functioning perfectly, the uneven pressure and staggering of the large cartridges necessary to cram such large rounds into a usable grip cause an awkward angle of the cartridge into the feed ramp, which frequently (I have seen several firsthand accounts of 1 in 5 shots jamming, and one report of every other shot jamming) causes failure to feed jams.

The gas system is quickly fouled by the faster-burning powders used in pistol cartridges, preventing the slide from recoiling fully and exacerbating the problem by narrowing the time and space constraints in which the next round must be loaded into the chamber.
From where do you draw your conclusion that a handgun can not harness any power over 1500 foot pounds?

I've stayed far away from this for a long time... however....

If someone swore up and down that Volga made the best cars in history it'd raise a serious eyebrow... and a whole lot of discussion.

If that person then turned around and admitted he had never actually driven before, that his sole experience is through how Gran Tourismo programmed the handling and acceleration, would you bother much with his opinion?

I don't mean to degrade... but your opinion is based solely on game balance programming.

I can't wait to start the next troll thread:

Does the General Electric M134 suck?

The Volga isn't what is made, but what is made of it Volga V12 BMW 850 hybrid photos, Pobeda GAZ M20 new russian retro cars pictures

Q: Does the Desert Eagle suck?
A: Yes it does.

thread closed.

This thread has plenty of life left in it

From a purely intellectual point of view*, I'm thoroughly convinced by this thread that the Desert Eagle does indeed suck. I'm sure there is a slew of far more sensible handguns out there to choose from. The Desert Eagle would be very low on my list.




*For the most part, the only actual guns I've seen were either in museums or the holsters of police officers and security guards. The only guns I've handled myself have been light guns, water guns, air rifles, and pricing guns.

The Desert Eagle, at roughly five pounds, excels at being a conversational piece on your coffee table or for securing lose papers on your desk.

...

I inherited the black 6" Desert Eagle XIX .357 featured in this thread in 2004 and refuse to sell it despite how bad it hurts my street cred. The piece is a hilarious example of how a total piece of junk can become so popular in the mainstream while more practical designs fall by the wayside. A little research on .357 caliber autoloading pistols will reveal how ironic it is that the Desert Eagle has become a pop culture icon. I'm still combing the desert looking for a Coonan Cadet, myself. And since I'm That Guy, the Desert Eagle sits in my safe next to a cherry Intratec TEC-9. So which owner category am I, TK?

...

Devil's Advocate'd:

As an aside, the Desert Eagle, at least in .357, is incredibly controllable (no shit, it weighs five pounds and is gas operated) and if meticulously maintained, can really rock .357s on paper. The polygonal rifling, large grip area, and sheer mass make it a decent target pistol... assuming it functions. The SAO trigger is wide and breaks pretty clean and I haven't had any magazine-related stoppages in 6 years despite word on the street. The gun is horribly picky about being dirty, however; and as mentioned above, the gas system is pretty much the mostest-stupidest design ever.

God bless Canada.

You're wasting your time; we're godless socialists, remember?

Jesus gave Real Americans the Desert Eagle.

I'm a bit amazed this thread was addressed specifically to me and yet I didn't see it until now. I'm not surprised by the content, though; the persistent arrogance of SF in yet another attempt to be an expert at something he's clearly not.

Skipping right past the fact that the quote he chose was actually in reference to the owners of Desert Eagles rather than the gun itself, I'd like to say that I think the actual experts in this thread have covered it far better than I could have. I honestly didn't know a lot of the information shared here. I appreciate you all taking the time to address his otherwise silly question, and it should be a learning experience for anyone who searches for Desert Eagle here or elsewhere.

That said, I think it's pretty clear almost 80 posts in that this is another trolling adventure of his so I'd ask that it's either locked or moved to Hall of Fame for the sheer volume and time you all have spent attempting to educate, even if it appears a lost cause.

EDIT: The talking gun was especially hilarious... thank you for that. :)

Pfft! The Desert Eagle is nothing compared to the .88 Magnum:

This thread wasn't addressed to you intentionally, Baraka Guru split it out of the other 'weapons you wish would go away' thread.

---------- Post added at 06:43 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:40 PM ----------

Sounds like you're owning it ironically. Speaking of irony, doing all the research for this thread totally makes me want to pick one of these up in 50AE to use as a range toy.

I can't tell you to -buy- one, but if you're going to be a douchebag, go for .357. It's a lot cheaper to feed.

The basic truth is this ...

The OP is just a gamer who doesn't want the truth about the Desert Eagle ruin his gaming experience. That's why he tries every convoluted argument to justify his suspension of disbelief ... even in the face of expertise.

Walt didn't post this, but I think it's incredibly pertinent:

http://doodiepants.com/wp-content/up...ntworrysir.jpg

...

COMING UP: Everything I Needed to Know about Being in Charge of a MG Fire Support Team I Learned from Rambo:

http://www.iconicphotos.com/manage/p...ose_lg_291.jpg
"Fuck it, I'll just run the '60 myself! You guys grease me up and hold my kit and BDU top back at the RDP."

Jesus was a Henry guy. Everyone knows that.
http://hisvorpal.files.wordpress.com...with-rifle.jpg

Well duh. He was an old-school dude, but forward-thinking all the same. I like to think Himself would have held out for something in a centrefire, though. But eh...Jesus always was an iconoclastic kinda guy.

Well, it was "the rifle you could load on Sunday and shoot all week!"

*rimshot*

All of y'all are wrong.

Jesus clearly uses an AK ...

Coulda been a VZ58... or... maybe an INSAS? God, cartoons are so difficult to read.

You guys keep forgetting that Yehoshua Ben Miryam was one of our boys, obviously he used a Galil and had an Uzi for backup.

No we didn't forget.

I wonder if his carpentry was any good. If it wasn't I'm glad that "messiah" thing worked out for him.

My qualifications to express my opinion on the Desert Eagle include:

1) I've had a Handgun Carry License since 1992, and carry every day.
2) I've owned firearms since 1984 (first at age 10).
3) I routinely attend advanced firearms training.
4) I'm a VERY avid shooter (I've shot over 3k rounds of 5.56x45mm in the past two months)
5) I'm a life-long "gun nut" who studies them constantly.

Based upon my practical use of firearms (home defense, personal defense, informal competitive shooting, training, etc).....

The Desert Eagle is novelty - nothing else.

Yes. Not to mention it was invented for men with small packages.

Are you guys going to shoot demonstration videos as well?

Is this where I insert my "the best thing Tennessee ever did was seceed from North Carolina" jokes? No? Wait, if you're going to point that at me, you better be ready to pull the trigger....

Nah, this guy already has the gun-demonstration video market locked down:

You can check out all his videos here: http://www.youtube.com/user/mp5man#p/u/14/UIiAwFkri5I

---

-+-{Important TFP Staff Message}-+- Hey, how about you guys create a new thread for your little tea party and stop making me think about moving this out of the Hall of Fame?

Good call, boss. Throw all these posts in the TFP Range Meetups thread?

And why don't you move the recent burglar thread to Life while you're at it.

Very rarely have I seen someone insist that their opinion is correct when presented with overwhelming evidence to the contrary.

Strange Famous, are you seriously basing your opinion of the Desert Eagle on its popular use in video games and movies? If yes, you might want to give it some deeper thought. I also suggest that you not get into a wrestling match with a 100 pound pit bull, even if you do outweigh it by 200 pounds.

i ct take it anymore this is rediculous the de50 is a worthless peice of crap i spent 7 years in the marines i fired numerous weapons i went to irag twise and afghanistan once and yes i have fired a desert eagle its worthless any gun kills i could shoot stange famous with a 22lr or hell even a .17 and kill him a 50. a.e. is designed for a bunch of rope smokers that are over compensating for something noone needs that kind of power if your a novice shooter stick with .22 .32 or .380 acp in the end ill take one bullet thatsd all you need if you cant do it with one then yu dont need to own a firearm and i hade to be the echo of my fellow americans but strange your a gun virgin thats like a blind man describing the sunset to me be that he's never seen the sunset you've never shot a gun so please take your un qualified oppinions elsewhere. by the way your quote at the end of you posts brings your sexuality into question. "a woman is like a rock if she flat you can skip her"

The United States Marine Corps, ladies and gentlemen! (applause)

ROFL