12-03-2005, 04:47 PM | #41 (permalink) | |
Insensative Fuck.
Location: Boon towns of Ohio
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Nonono, the leader of PETA, Ingrid is her name.
She says she wants animals to have the same rights as humans do. Humans do not have the right to be put into a sleep, and then pass in their sleep. You can't have a HARD left side stance on "Killing animals is wrong, no exceptions" and actually kill animals yourself.
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12-03-2005, 04:55 PM | #42 (permalink) | |
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so the question is whether human satisfaction should outweigh physically undesirable experiences of non-persons. or at least earthworms and fish. but we would still draw the line somewhere, and for most people, that line is arbitrary. for example, you might be ok with slaughtering 10 million cows to satisfy human desires but not 10 million dogs...? |
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12-03-2005, 05:47 PM | #43 (permalink) | |
C'mon, just blow it.
Location: Perth, Australia
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The Earth is indeed round, as can be seen in photographic evidence here and due to the fact that if you climb a large hill, you cannot see yourself. The sun, if you'll care to look at it (with the proper protection, of course) is also round. As well as round, it's a big fiery ball of cosmic death, many times greater than the Earth. Next time there's a solar eclipse, note how the moon (which is small and close, and has been landed on) overshadows the sun. Hence, due to simple reality, the Sun's mass would be far greater than that of our little watery home. To put it simply, Earth is falling towards the sun. As there's no air resistance or outside forces, and because we're not headed directly towards it (throw a ball horizontally, it still is pulled towards the ground in an arc) we continue falling.
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"'There's a tendency among the press to attribute the creation of a game to a single person,' says Warren Spector, creator of Thief and Deus Ex." -- From an IGN game review. |
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12-03-2005, 06:01 PM | #44 (permalink) |
Eat your vegetables
Super Moderator
Location: Arabidopsis-ville
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Errr... I think that's a pamphlet that I'm going to try to avoid.
I'll write the next edition: Your Mommy Kills Plants!
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"Sometimes I have to remember that things are brought to me for a reason, either for my own lessons or for the benefit of others." Cynthetiq "violence is no more or less real than non-violence." roachboy |
12-03-2005, 06:22 PM | #45 (permalink) | |
Tone.
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You're being rather silly don't you think? Acting as though the statements of thousands of peer-reviewed scientists, who's methods and reasoning were made available for scrutiny, is no more trust worthy than the word of people 2,000 years ago who claimed an invisible man came down and told them stuff? And of course we have to take into account the fact that the stuff this invisible guy told them was handed down mainly by word of mouth for 1,450 years (and that's just the new testament. The old testament was told orally even longer) until Mr. Gutenberg invented the printing press so people could get hold of bibles. Ever play a game of telephone? If you can't get the same message passed down through 25 people, how the hell are people supposed to keep the message intact for over a millenium? If you're making a serious argument here, you need to rethink your position. If you're being facetious then it's too transparent. |
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12-03-2005, 07:27 PM | #46 (permalink) |
Squid
Location: USS George Washington
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Welcome to my world. Their world HQ is here in Norfolk, VA. Parked across the river is the retired battleship USS Wisconsin. If they could just point their 16 inchers at the building and fire a broadside into it...
And while we're bullshitting, so is Pat Robertson, the 700 club and CBN. -Mikey |
12-03-2005, 08:01 PM | #47 (permalink) | |
Young Crumudgeon
Location: Canada
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i go by level of intelligence. We are (so far as we know) the most intelligent form of life on Earth. High levels of intelligence are evident in other forms of mammals, who have a similarly enlarged cerebral cortex. A dog has a primitive cerebral cortex and since MRI scans and physiological evidence leads us to believe that this is the area of the brain responsible for cognitive thought and intelligence, it can be reaonably theorized that a dog has a rudimentary intelligence. A fish, on the other hand, doesn't have a cerebral cortex at all. It has a cerebrum, which may be viewed as a precursor to a cerebral cortex, but even that is small and undeveloped. From this it can be conjectured that a fish doesn't feel pain. And an earthworm doesn't even have a brain. It has what's referred to as a cerebral ganglion, which is just a small cluster of nerves responsible for reacting to stimuli. Despite the name, this ganglion is much closer to clusters of nerves in our spinal column in structure than it is to a brain. Neither of these animals is capable of thought; they simply react to stimuli. Given that, it can be concluded that neither animal is capable of suffering. They can 'feel pain' only insofar as they can react to negative stimuli. There are plants that are capable of the same thing. Is it cruel to cut a flower just because it can move towards sunlight? If you want to discuss the ethics of slaughtering cattle (or any other mammals) vs. killing dogs and cats, you're right; that line is completely arbitrary. A cow, with a rudimentary brain is capable of rudimentary thought and therefore capable of suffering. You could make a case that a cow may very well feel pain in exactly the way we do (note that being capable of thought is in no way the same thing as being sentient; none of these animals would pass a Turing test). So that's a bit muddier.Hell, even birds. Next to mammals they have the most developed cerebrum and therefore may have the capacity to experience pain like ours. But fish? The necessary physical components just aren't there. In case you couldn't tell, I am not a 'save the critters' kinda guy. EDIT - and your comparison with human babies is inaccurate. A human infant has a well developed brain in terms of the components, even though the neural pathways haven't yet been established. Infants learn at an incredibly fast rate and start learning even before birth. We can't say that a human infant is capable of complex thought, but we can't rule the possiblity out either.
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I wake up in the morning more tired than before I slept I get through cryin' and I'm sadder than before I wept I get through thinkin' now, and the thoughts have left my head I get through speakin' and I can't remember, not a word that I said - Ben Harper, Show Me A Little Shame Last edited by Martian; 12-03-2005 at 08:04 PM.. |
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12-04-2005, 12:20 AM | #50 (permalink) | |
Comment or else!!
Location: Home sweet home
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I have an urge to go fishing and hunting as well....
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Him: Ok, I have to ask, what do you believe? Me: Shit happens. |
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12-04-2005, 03:11 AM | #51 (permalink) | |
Psycho
Location: Right here, right now.
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I used to date a vet for a little while, and on the subject of what we're designed to eat, of course she'd done comparative anatomy. She used to say that when her vegetarian friends would come out with, "But we're only designed to be vegetarians," she could immediately tell them what general features herbivores have, what general features carnivores have, and what features omnivores have, and deduce from that that we're omnivores.
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Maybe you should put some shorts on or something, if you wanna keep fighting evil today. |
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12-04-2005, 02:39 PM | #52 (permalink) | |
The sky calls to us ...
Super Moderator
Location: CT
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12-05-2005, 05:20 AM | #53 (permalink) |
People in masks cannot be trusted
Location: NYC
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They have for a while been telling children that. I saw someone say that once to a kid in midtown (NYC), and I went over and tried conversing with the woman, trying to explain how you should not say that to a 5 yr old about her parents. Of course the woman did not understand at all. I once had a real estate agent say to my co-worker, during work, that she is lucky that she does not throw blood on her.
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12-05-2005, 07:34 AM | #55 (permalink) | |
Too Awesome for Aardvarks
Location: Angloland
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Fish will move away from pain sources, and can easily be taught simple rememberance tasks that some humans would have trouble with (e.g. being fed at the same spot each day at the same time, and being there exactly when you go to feed them). We are not herbivores by any strech of the imagination. The human body is omnivorous. We lack many of the vital elements to properly digest tough plant structures. Yes we may still be able to utilise a large proportion of plant life, but a quick look at your teeth will give a sneak peak into our meat eating ancestry through our canines. A human life is worth considerably more than a fish (though i can think of exceptions to this rule...), that i will agree with.
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12-05-2005, 07:58 AM | #56 (permalink) | |
Comedian
Location: Use the search button
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There lies an excellent ethical question: How many fish are you willing to see slaughtered and disposed of (not eaten, not processed; just needlessly killed) to prevent the death of one person? How many fish are you willing to see slaughtered and disposed of (not eaten, not processed; just needlessly killed) to prevent harm done to one person? My opinion? Not quite sure, but it would have to be in the millions, and I would want assurance that the ecosystem would be able to recover. If all of the fish were killed to keep someone alive... I don't know. Is a pedophile's life worth more than a goldfish? How about Saddam Hussein vs. Atlantic Carp?
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3.141592654 Hey, if you are impressed with my memorizing pi to 10 digits, you should see the size of my penis. |
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12-05-2005, 09:25 AM | #57 (permalink) |
<3 TFP
Location: 17TLH2445607250
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PETA really does alarm me. Frankly, I love the fact that people have opinions that differ from mine. I enjoy debate, and therefore would be sad if everyone agreed with everything I said. There comes a point, however, both to the far left and far right that people stop offering me amusing banter and begin to scare me a little. PETA is a group of such people.
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12-05-2005, 09:33 AM | #58 (permalink) |
Soylent Green is people.
Location: Northern California
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Some of y'all might already know this little fact, but one of the PETA directors, Mary Beth Sweetland, is an insulin dependent diabetic - even though PETA believes insulin should be banned.
What is her stance? She concedes that, "(my medicine) still contains some animal products -- and I have no qualms about it…. I don’t see myself as a hypocrite. I need my life to fight for the rights of animals.” That's worse than Senator Diane Feinstein, in her anti-handgun zeal, owning and carrying a handgun for personal protection - also true. Last edited by longbough; 12-05-2005 at 09:37 AM.. |
12-05-2005, 01:51 PM | #59 (permalink) | |
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12-05-2005, 04:13 PM | #60 (permalink) |
Getting Medieval on your ass
Location: 13th century Europe
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For what it's worth, PETA also demonstrates outside animal clinics that euthanize animals, stating that any killing of animals is wrong, while demonizing the vets who care more for animals than they ever would.
Sorry, PETA = whack. |
12-09-2005, 04:08 PM | #63 (permalink) | |
Psycho
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animals, daddy, kills, peta |
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