Blood Diamonds - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

lindalove · 11-07-2005, 02:59 PM

I've been reading up more about Blood Diamonds from Africa, and I can't believe people still buy diamonds even if they know these things occur.

So, does the world turn a blind eye to the Blood Diamonds in Africa out of greed for diamonds, or is the majority of people ignorant to it? Is it the lack of information, or is it something else?

lindalove · 11-07-2005, 03:06 PM

Wikipedia:

Quote:

A conflict diamond (also called a blood diamond) is a diamond mined in a war zone and sold, usually clandestinely, in order to finance an insurgent or invading army's war efforts. Non-governmental organizations have also alleged the use of these diamonds in financing the September 11, 2001 attacks.

The United Nations has decried the sale of conflict diamonds, arguing that their trade finances armies in fighting against legitimate governments and perpetrating human rights abuses, and prolongs devastating wars. It points to the UNITA rebels in Angola and to the Revolutionary United Front rebels in Sierra Leone (who it states were financed by the government of Liberia, also through diamond sales) as purveyors of conflict diamonds.

The UN is attempting to implement certification procedures to decrease the number of illicit diamonds on the world market. The World Diamond Council adopted at Antwerp on July 19, 2000, a resolution to strengthen the diamond industry's ability to block sales of conflict diamonds.

In 2002, the UN approved the Kimberley Process scheme aimed at preventing conflict diamonds entering the market.

Countries such as Canada have used concerns about conflict diamonds to present domestically-produced diamonds as an ethical alternative which avoids the risk of unknowingly purchasing a blood diamond. The same argument is used by makers of cultured diamonds such as Gemesis and Apollo Diamond.

This is also a good link: http://www.globalpolicy.org/security...mond/index.htm

Pragma · 11-07-2005, 04:24 PM

You know, they mentioned conflict diamonds in the James Bond movie Diamonds are Forever, but I never once realized what they actually were. Very informative post, lindalove

I'd imagine that it's mostly ignorance: people don't realize what goes into the whole "from the ground to your hand" part of diamonds. And as for the other, I'm sure there are plenty of people out there eager to get their hands on diamonds that they'll take any source.

Dragonknight · 11-07-2005, 04:32 PM

So I don't get how the average person finds out that there buying a Blood Diamond? They showed these diamonds in "The Lord of War" didn't they? I agree with Pragma, "This is a very informative post." Thanks Lindalove, if I ever figure out that the store I'm getting diamonds from is selling Blood Diamonds then I will have to shop elsewhere.

flstf · 11-07-2005, 04:59 PM

I don't have any data to back it up but I have a suspicion that the diamond cartell does not welcome the competition from these diamonds in which they do not control the price.

Halx · 11-07-2005, 07:27 PM

File this under the same category as "If you buy drugs, you are supporting terrorism."

I mean, seriously, it's obvious the only way the bad guys can get money is by selling us our vain, boring lifestyle.

Siege · 11-07-2005, 07:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lindalove

So, does the world turn a blind eye to the Blood Diamonds in Africa out of greed for diamonds, or is the majority of people ignorant to it? Is it the lack of information, or is it something else?

If it's cheap, and people want it, it'll be bought.

Look at all the bootleg movies/cds around. "I'm sorry officer, I thought the unsealed DVD with the synopsis to another movie was legit! I swear!"

But in the case of conflict diamonds, yes ignorance is also a factor. The average person will say "huh? What's that?" However, it may have a little more exposure due to Kanye West's "Diamonds from Sierra Leone" video.

lindalove · 11-07-2005, 08:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flstf

I don't have any data to back it up but I have a suspicion that the diamond cartell does not welcome the competition from these diamonds in which they do not control the price.

De Beers is the world's largest diamond mining company, and from some reading it has its hands in the Blood Diamonds in both Sierra Leone and Angola, also parts of the Congo.

So, any De Beers store, chances are has conflict diamonds.

Also, Leonardo DiCaprio and Jennifer Connely are set to star ina movie about the diamond trade: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0450259/ So hopefully that will raise awareness.

smooth · 11-08-2005, 02:21 AM

This is pretty good info regarding the "Clean Diamonds Act"

http://www.phrusa.org/campaigns/sier...iam_q&a.html#5

My wife and I only purchase used diamonds until we can determine that US sold diamonds are conflict free.

MSD · 11-08-2005, 07:02 AM

It's nice to think that people care, but look at Gap* and Nike (the two bigest offenders in the sweatshop business, some Gap highlights include workers as young as 4, wages ranging from 8 to 11 cents per hour, 18-hour days with no overtime pay, 8 people per 2-person room in factory dorms, lcoked bathrooms, blocked fire escapes, and "disappearances" among thsoe who try to unionize, all on American soil.) They're huge and the stuff is popular. Coca-Cola murders union leaders in foreign bottling plants, and who are the top cola producers?

You give far too much credit to the general population in terms of how much they care about where sutff comes from and how it gets from raw materials to our shopping cart.

cowlick · 11-08-2005, 07:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrSelfDestruct

It's nice to think that people care, but look at Gap* and Nike (the two bigest offenders in the sweatshop business, some Gap highlights include workers as young as 4, wages ranging from 8 to 11 cents per hour, 18-hour days with no overtime pay, 8 people per 2-person room in factory dorms, lcoked bathrooms, blocked fire escapes, and "disappearances" among thsoe who try to unionize, all on American soil.) They're huge and the stuff is popular. Coca-Cola murders union leaders in foreign bottling plants, and who are the top cola producers?

You give far too much credit to the general population in terms of how much they care about where sutff comes from and how it gets from raw materials to our shopping cart.

Amen, Brother!
I try like hell to avoid buying my stuff from evil corporations - but it is near impossible.

BigBen · 11-08-2005, 07:37 AM

You should see the shit people will do for oil. And that stuff can hardly be termed "Forever". I bet someone has died just so that I could burn enough oil to go to work today.

As for diamonds, they are a unique commodity in the economic world. They are reasonably homogeneous, and to an untrained eye, a diamond is a diamond is a diamond. Diamonds can also be very heterogeneous, like the Hope Diamond or other such famous stone.

An average consumer/retailer/wholesaler cannot tell if the daimond you are holding is a Blood Diamond or not. Lasers are used to inscribe identification marks on the collars of gems, but even then, there is an issue of trust. I think that diamonds are getting a bad rap for violence; There is violence (or a potential for) whenever something of value is involved.

If I was to look at all of the injustice in the world that took place so that my life could be a little bit more comfortable, I would go out of my mind.

Even the Vegan, hippie, tree hugging socialist holding the love-in has unknowingly caused suffering in this world. People have died so that the Patchouli incense stick burns evenly...

Suave · 11-09-2005, 12:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrSelfDestruct

It's nice to think that people care, but look at Gap* and Nike (the two bigest offenders in the sweatshop business, some Gap highlights include workers as young as 4, wages ranging from 8 to 11 cents per hour, 18-hour days with no overtime pay, 8 people per 2-person room in factory dorms, lcoked bathrooms, blocked fire escapes, and "disappearances" among thsoe who try to unionize, all on American soil.) They're huge and the stuff is popular. Coca-Cola murders union leaders in foreign bottling plants, and who are the top cola producers?

You give far too much credit to the general population in terms of how much they care about where sutff comes from and how it gets from raw materials to our shopping cart.

Coca-Cola did not murder anyone. The foreign bottling plant was a sub-contractor, and Coca-Cola was found by a federal judge to be completely innocent of any charges.

Anyway, I would personally rather buy a fabricated diamond. They're at least slightly cheaper, and they are perfect.

abaya · 11-09-2005, 06:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrSelfDestruct

You give far too much credit to the general population in terms of how much they care about where sutff comes from and how it gets from raw materials to our shopping cart.

Yep. Two quotes say it all:

"The cost of a thing is the amount of what I call life which is required to be exchanged for it, immediately or in the long run." (Henry David Thoreau)... think about how much the things you buy REALLY cost (esp. from Walmart, for example), when you consider the human cost. It ain't cheap. But most people don't want to see that cost..

Someone else said that "people will hate you for forcing them to make the connections that they do not want to make" (either Hannah Arendt or Simone Weil, both intellectual powerhouses). Most people don't want to see the connection between their consumer choices and someone dying. But it's RIGHT THERE in front of them. I say to continue forcing them to see it, regardless of their reaction.

Every time we buy something, we are guilty of oppressing someone.

highthief · 11-09-2005, 08:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by abaya

Every time we buy something, we are guilty of oppressing someone.

I think that's a bit of a stretch. I bought some nice, organic jam this weekend from a local producer. Don't think anyone was oppressed in that transaction.

BigBen · 11-10-2005, 05:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by highthief

I think that's a bit of a stretch. I bought some nice, organic jam this weekend from a local producer. Don't think anyone was oppressed in that transaction.

I think it speaks loudly that your list contains one item bought at a farmer's market.

We are talking in general terms here, that is true. To point out that Grandma's Raspberry Preserves are pain free does nothing to hurt the root of the argument.

Wait a second... Jam is made with pectin, right? That is made in a factory in Mexico where they work around cancer causing chemicals and are not allowed to take bathroom breaks.

What about the jar your "thought it was guilt free" jam came in? Where was that made, and by whom? Did they have proper health benefits for their kids at that plant?

Oh, now that I'm on a roll: What about the cute little red-and-white checkered cloth covering the lid of the jar to make it look more "Homestyle"? That cloth was woven by an 8-year-old kid named Sanjif in Bangladesh, and everytime he makes a mistake on the loom, the owner of the textile plant punches him in the head. Sanjif doesn't mind though; the 4 cents per day he gets at his job is the highest wage in the village, and he is worried about job security.

You make me sick, you Jam Buying Bastard.

dublhelix · 11-10-2005, 05:51 AM

this debate is pointless. EVERYTHING in the world is involved in some way or another with the violation and abuse of something else. personally i think people should stopp wearing diamonds altgether... they are nothing but a sop for the fnatically vain.

MY worry is about a big prob in australia these days, the start of "location labelling" for fruits an vegetables in australia.

if people only buy "australian grown", then trade halts, competition slows down, quality drops, production halters.... things gain in price...

Menoman · 11-10-2005, 08:01 AM

I'm not sure I understand why it is bad to buy diamonds mined in a war zone?

Maybe I do not fully understand how exactly they are mined? Or how it is detrimental to someone?

kutulu · 11-10-2005, 08:32 AM

Fuck the diamond business anyway. It's bullshit that one company controls virtually all of the diamond business.

SecretMethod70 · 11-11-2005, 06:12 AM

The diamond business is a generally corrupt industry in the first place which I hold in the lowest regard. I think most people are just ignorant to the situation with blood diamonds as well as the extraodrinarily manipulative social engineering that has gone into portraying diamonds with the status they are seen to represent, not to mention the De Beers company's generally shady practices at times. (I'd love to provide some sources, but most reading I've done regarding the diamond industry was a couple years ago.)

Personally, I have no intention of ever supporting the industry or the culture it has created.

canuckguy · 11-11-2005, 06:22 AM

Ben your killing me! Your posts are all just so funny!

as for the blood issue, i'm gonna copy and paste this to my wife, maybe it will sway her away from wanting that new bracelet for xmas......i guy can hope....

11-07-2005, 02:59 PM	#1 (permalink)
lindalove Registered User	Blood Diamonds I've been reading up more about Blood Diamonds from Africa, and I can't believe people still buy diamonds even if they know these things occur. So, does the world turn a blind eye to the Blood Diamonds in Africa out of greed for diamonds, or is the majority of people ignorant to it? Is it the lack of information, or is it something else?

11-07-2005, 04:24 PM	#3 (permalink)
Pragma I am Winter Born Location: Alexandria, VA	You know, they mentioned conflict diamonds in the James Bond movie Diamonds are Forever, but I never once realized what they actually were. Very informative post, lindalove I'd imagine that it's mostly ignorance: people don't realize what goes into the whole "from the ground to your hand" part of diamonds. And as for the other, I'm sure there are plenty of people out there eager to get their hands on diamonds that they'll take any source. __________________ Eat antimatter, Posleen-boy!

11-07-2005, 07:27 PM	#6 (permalink)
Halx Please touch this. Owner/Admin Location: Manhattan	File this under the same category as "If you buy drugs, you are supporting terrorism." I mean, seriously, it's obvious the only way the bad guys can get money is by selling us our vain, boring lifestyle. __________________ You have found this post informative. -The Administrator [Don't Feed The Animals]

11-08-2005, 02:21 AM	#9 (permalink)
smooth Junkie Location: Right here	This is pretty good info regarding the "Clean Diamonds Act" http://www.phrusa.org/campaigns/sier...iam_q&a.html#5 My wife and I only purchase used diamonds until we can determine that US sold diamonds are conflict free. __________________ "The theory of a free press is that truth will emerge from free discussion, not that it will be presented perfectly and instantly in any one account." -- Walter Lippmann "You measure democracy by the freedom it gives its dissidents, not the freedom it gives its assimilated conformists." -- Abbie Hoffman

11-08-2005, 07:37 AM	#12 (permalink)
BigBen Comedian Location: Use the search button	You should see the shit people will do for oil. And that stuff can hardly be termed "Forever". I bet someone has died just so that I could burn enough oil to go to work today. As for diamonds, they are a unique commodity in the economic world. They are reasonably homogeneous, and to an untrained eye, a diamond is a diamond is a diamond. Diamonds can also be very heterogeneous, like the Hope Diamond or other such famous stone. An average consumer/retailer/wholesaler cannot tell if the daimond you are holding is a Blood Diamond or not. Lasers are used to inscribe identification marks on the collars of gems, but even then, there is an issue of trust. I think that diamonds are getting a bad rap for violence; There is violence (or a potential for) whenever something of value is involved. If I was to look at all of the injustice in the world that took place so that my life could be a little bit more comfortable, I would go out of my mind. Even the Vegan, hippie, tree hugging socialist holding the love-in has unknowingly caused suffering in this world. People have died so that the Patchouli incense stick burns evenly... __________________ 3.141592654 Hey, if you are impressed with my memorizing pi to 10 digits, you should see the size of my penis.

11-07-2005, 04:32 PM	#4 (permalink)
Dragonknight Insane Location: Hawaii	So I don't get how the average person finds out that there buying a Blood Diamond? They showed these diamonds in "The Lord of War" didn't they? I agree with Pragma, "This is a very informative post." Thanks Lindalove, if I ever figure out that the store I'm getting diamonds from is selling Blood Diamonds then I will have to shop elsewhere.

11-07-2005, 04:59 PM	#5 (permalink)
flstf Easy Rider Location: Moscow on the Ohio	I don't have any data to back it up but I have a suspicion that the diamond cartell does not welcome the competition from these diamonds in which they do not control the price.

11-08-2005, 07:02 AM	#10 (permalink)
MSD The sky calls to us ... Super Moderator Location: CT	It's nice to think that people care, but look at Gap* and Nike (the two bigest offenders in the sweatshop business, some Gap highlights include workers as young as 4, wages ranging from 8 to 11 cents per hour, 18-hour days with no overtime pay, 8 people per 2-person room in factory dorms, lcoked bathrooms, blocked fire escapes, and "disappearances" among thsoe who try to unionize, all on American soil.) They're huge and the stuff is popular. Coca-Cola murders union leaders in foreign bottling plants, and who are the top cola producers? You give far too much credit to the general population in terms of how much they care about where sutff comes from and how it gets from raw materials to our shopping cart.

11-10-2005, 05:51 AM	#17 (permalink)
dublhelix Upright	this debate is pointless. EVERYTHING in the world is involved in some way or another with the violation and abuse of something else. personally i think people should stopp wearing diamonds altgether... they are nothing but a sop for the fnatically vain. MY worry is about a big prob in australia these days, the start of "location labelling" for fruits an vegetables in australia. if people only buy "australian grown", then trade halts, competition slows down, quality drops, production halters.... things gain in price... __________________ A Freudian slip. Where you say one thing and mean your mother....

11-10-2005, 08:32 AM	#19 (permalink)
kutulu Junkie	Fuck the diamond business anyway. It's bullshit that one company controls virtually all of the diamond business.

11-11-2005, 06:12 AM	#20 (permalink)
SecretMethod70 Human Administrator Location: Chicago	The diamond business is a generally corrupt industry in the first place which I hold in the lowest regard. I think most people are just ignorant to the situation with blood diamonds as well as the extraodrinarily manipulative social engineering that has gone into portraying diamonds with the status they are seen to represent, not to mention the De Beers company's generally shady practices at times. (I'd love to provide some sources, but most reading I've done regarding the diamond industry was a couple years ago.) Personally, I have no intention of ever supporting the industry or the culture it has created. __________________ Le temps détruit tout "Musicians are the carriers and communicators of spirit in the most immediate sense." - Kurt Elling

11-11-2005, 06:22 AM	#21 (permalink)
canuckguy I read your emails. Location: earth	Ben your killing me! Your posts are all just so funny! as for the blood issue, i'm gonna copy and paste this to my wife, maybe it will sway her away from wanting that new bracelet for xmas......i guy can hope....