billege

(I missed a "g" on the post's title. ::sigh:

Original Text


I can't say how much I am interested in seeing the reactions to Spike. Will he suffer the same outcry as Bill Cosby did when he spoke out against what most would consider the same topic, the same types of behavior?

It will be very interesting to watch what Black America says in response. Then again, maybe it won't.

Mr. Lee said the gangsa image is bad.

Who's going to get up on a soapbox and scream that women hating, drug using, violence endorsing, wanton consumption, perversion preaching, rappers *are* the ideal for Black youth (well, youth of any color, really).

Then again, every time I post somthing about how negative rap is, and I've done so, in the long ago past, (this being the biggest one) at great length, people pop out of the woodwork to call me names; and, talk about how great rap is, and how my views of it are twisted, limited, and more than slightly racist.

Never mind though, that's jsut me being bitchy about my experiances.

What do you think of Spike's words here?

New news?

It's been said before?

It's bunk?

Cosby said it better?

What?

__________________
I can sum up the clash of religion in one sentence:
"My Invisible Friend is better than your Invisible Friend."

maximusveritas

I think the whole idea of there being an "outcry" about what Cosby said was overblown if not invented by the media. Most of the criticism was by people who didn't actually hear what Cosby said and were just relying on the media's flawed reporting to judge his comments.

The most valid criticism was that Cosby didn't offer any real solutions other than naively telling people to change. Then again, just putting these issues out there does move us in the right direction by forcing people to accept that there is a problem and that they need to deal with it.

But how do we deal with it? It's hard to figure out how much of it is due to culture (like rap music) and how much of it is due to young black kids seeing crime, athletics, or entertainment as their easiest pathways to success.

Even if you say rap music is a big part of the problem, how would you propose solving that? Should there be a ban on rap music that contains counterproductive lyrics? Should we try to promote more positive rap music? The music industry would say that violence and sex is what sells. On a personal level, Spike seems to be trying to create films with positive messages for the black community, but it's hard to see him take it further than that.

If you say that the main problem is a lack of black role models who studied hard, went to college, and got a good job, how do you solve that? Affirmative action might be one way, but it's been going on for some time now and doesn't seem to have produced the results we would have hoped for.

docbungle

I have a hard time taking Spike seriously ever since he said the government blew up the levees to drown all the black people and to save the surrounding areas. He definitely makes some excellent films, though.

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Bad Luck City

Slyboots

Lets not forget when he tried to sue spike tv for having his name in it.

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"Ah, yes, divorce......., from the Latin word meaning to rip out a man's genitals through his wallet." -- Robin Williams

jwoody

When 'gangstas' are watching New Jack City, they don't aspire to be what-his-name. They all want to be that other bloke - with the hair.

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Charlatan

Spike Lee didn't make New Jack City that was Mario Van peebles... but I do agree.

__________________
"My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars."
- Old Man Luedecke

serlindsipity

the comparison to the minstrel show is an interesting allegory. However, now the minstrel show is glorified if this is so, how did that happen?

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My third eye is my camera's lens.

jwoody

[fib]I knew that.[/fib]

I meant that other film with the shop.

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Bill O'Rights

I'm actually more interested in this statement.
"Back then, we were not called sellouts for using our brains. And being intelligent was not frowned upon," Lee said.

Is this the case? My daughter once made mention of this trend, when I was giving her the obligatory dressing down for poor grades, when she was in high school. I dismissed it as little more than a weak attempt, on her part, to defend her own laziness. Was I wrong? If so...what kind of bullshit is that!?!

__________________
"I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires." - Susan B. Anthony

"Hedonism with rules isn't hedonism at all, it's the Republican party." - JumpinJesus

It is indisputable that true beauty lies within...but a nice rack sure doesn't hurt.

billege

There's always been a certain reaction against smart people, I think.
By that, I mean the "geeks" and "brains" in school systems are usually put on the outside of social groupings. This is because of (both) their usual lack of social skills, and I think, jealousy on the part of those not so obviously bright.

Additionally, and I think this is true during the grade school/high school time more than perhaps any other; there’s intense pressure to conform. Being smarter than “the average bear” is one way to stand out, and it’s as unacceptable to the crowd as any other form of individualism.

There is certainly a trend among “kids today” that being smart and professional is an unacceptable way to be. This trend seems to be more visible in the Black community, as opposed to say, the Asian community (for example, their stereotype is to be “good at math”). This trend in attitude may be more visible because of selective perception, and selected stereotypes that are visible/perpetuated through popular media.

I can’t say it’s overwhelmingly true that black youth, in particular, reject education as an acceptable method of advancement. However, it can be said that some groups of youth are rejecting education as an acceptable thing.

In those selected groups, advancement is only acceptable under the models of: entertainer, sports star, and the like.

If one is focusing on the Black youth community, in particular, there do exist interesting statistics that may point out a rejection, or at least lack of emphasis, on the importance of a formal education.

Such statistics show the most obvious differences about education, and attitudes towards it in this community, when comparing the numbers of Black males perusing advanced education vs. Black females in the same pursuit.

From http://www.blackcommentator.com/154/..._mecca_pf.html :

“Nationally there are 690 black men with graduate and professional degrees for every 1,000 black women…”

This particular study focused in on Atlanta, GA where, “There are 610 black males with managerial and professional jobs for every 1,000 black women in the Atlanta MSA, and 464 in the city of Atlanta.”

The whole page there is on the disparity between middle-class Black America, and poor Black America, plus a zoom-in on the increasing disparity between Black men and women.

Another snapshot of educational rates from: http://www.black-collegian.com/issue...001-30th.shtml

“Between 1976 and 1997, there was a sixty-eight percent increase in the number of Black women enrolled in college and a twenty-one percent increase for young Black men.”

If you’d like a bit of reading from Black America’s perspective, you may read here: http://www.findarticles.com/p/articl...35/ai_n6038858 where the magazine “Essence” discusses how Black Women are dealing with it.


To answer your question, Mr. Bill O’Rights:

I can’t offer solid reasons for the disparity in gender and educational focus, because I haven’t gotten that far in my readings, but it has been suggested that one of the reasons for the lack of emphasis is a general distaste and de-emphasis on education as a concept, and as a method for success in life.

Was your daughter telling the truth when she said being smart isn’t cool? I think it’s very likely she’s being 100% honest in relating her experience.

__________________
I can sum up the clash of religion in one sentence:
"My Invisible Friend is better than your Invisible Friend."

jorgelito

It's also one of the reasons why girls traditionally were not good at math/sciences (unlady like)