09-13-2005, 02:01 AM | #1 (permalink) |
Illusionary
|
Why We Have Prisons
No.....not for the Kids.....for these parents:
http://www.newsnet5.com/news/local/4961890/detail.html Sheriff: 9 Kids Kept Locked In Cages Kids Ages 1 To 14 UPDATED: 9:25 pm EDT September 12, 2005 WAKEMAN, Ohio -- Nine children were found locked in cages in their home in Wakeman in Huron County Monday, NewsChannel5 reported. The sheriff said the kids, ages 1 to 14, were found in the cages with no blankets or pillows. The wooden cages, estimated to be about 3 foot by 3 foot, were built into the walls. Officials are not releasing the photos of the cages. The children were taken to Fisher-Titus Medical Center. They are listed in good condition. Officials said all the children were adopted children. Sharon and Mike Gravelle, the parents, have not been arrested. They had 11 children in all. Officials said the parents thought they were doing what was best for the children. "Basically, the parents thought they were providing for the protection of the children from themselves and from each other," said Huron County's Lt. Randy Sommers. "They thought it was circumstances that warranted the cages at night." Officials added that the parents believed that because the children were autistic they should be kept in the cages for protection from each other. According to officials, the cages had alarms that would go off if the children tried to escape. |
09-13-2005, 02:11 AM | #2 (permalink) |
Drifting
Administrator
Location: Windy City
|
Autism is such a severely misunderstood condition, and it is apparent this family has not been informed that caging children is not only inhumane, but thinking it a neccessity should cry out about a deeper problem. While I applaud those who make the choice to adopt, eleven children is a lot for any two parents. Autistic children add an entirely new twist to the mix.
As someone who has spent extensive time with autistic kids, they require much one on one attention. For them to have more than one or two autistic children, I wonder at the state agency that thought it was in the children's best interest to place so many of them in the same household.
__________________
Calling from deep in the heart, from where the eyes can't see and the ears can't hear, from where the mountain trails end and only love can go... ~~~ Three Rivers Hare Krishna |
09-13-2005, 02:17 AM | #3 (permalink) |
Shackle Me Not
Location: Newcastle - England.
|
I'm not going to jump to the same conclusion.
The children were in good condition and the parents have not been arrested. It's a shocking headline but there really isn't any meat in the story. For all we know, these kids may have been trying to kill each other every night. It is possible that cages were in their best interest.
__________________
. |
09-13-2005, 02:18 AM | #4 (permalink) |
C'mon, just blow it.
Location: Perth, Australia
|
Why the hell were they allowed to adopt eleven kids without anyone even inspecting the premesis?
3x3' cages are hardy humane.
__________________
"'There's a tendency among the press to attribute the creation of a game to a single person,' says Warren Spector, creator of Thief and Deus Ex." -- From an IGN game review. |
09-13-2005, 02:28 AM | #5 (permalink) |
loving the curves
Location: my Lady's manor
|
I am with Amonkie - how does an agency in charge of something as important as special needs children allow this? Where is the oversight? There will be major changes of course. As for the "parents", I am at a complete loss. But I feel sickened.
__________________
And now to disengage the clutch of the forebrain ... I'm going with this - if you like artwork visit http://markfineart.ca |
09-13-2005, 04:45 AM | #8 (permalink) | |
will always be an Alyson Hanniganite
Location: In the dust of the archives
|
Quote:
I keep going back to the phrase..."The wooden cages, estimated to be about 3 foot by 3 foot, were built into the walls." Built...into...the...walls? Hmmm, interesting. So, what I am inferring, from that, is that this was intended, from the onset, to be a long term condition. I don't know of too many houses that have nine built in wooden cages. 11 kids in all. So, were only the 9 autistic? Were only the nine adopted? The article really isn't clear on that point. I know that it's a rigorous process for any adoption. I should imagine that it would be even more so, when adopting a "special needs" child. Who, I want to know, allows any couple to adopt 9 such children? Certainly that would take a toll on the most patient and caring of parents. Where were the checks and balances? Why were no "red flags" raised? Personally...I think the "parents" need to be locked into 3x3 cages...for a long long time. However...I also feel that whatever so called "system" allowed this to happen needs to be blown apart at the seams.
__________________
"I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires." - Susan B. Anthony "Hedonism with rules isn't hedonism at all, it's the Republican party." - JumpinJesus It is indisputable that true beauty lies within...but a nice rack sure doesn't hurt. |
|
09-13-2005, 05:55 AM | #9 (permalink) | |
will always be an Alyson Hanniganite
Location: In the dust of the archives
|
http://www.omaha.com/index.php?u_pg=54&u_sid=2015473
Quote:
__________________
"I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires." - Susan B. Anthony "Hedonism with rules isn't hedonism at all, it's the Republican party." - JumpinJesus It is indisputable that true beauty lies within...but a nice rack sure doesn't hurt. Last edited by Bill O'Rights; 09-13-2005 at 05:58 AM.. |
|
09-13-2005, 06:08 AM | #10 (permalink) |
wouldn't mind being a ninja.
Location: Maine, the Other White State.
|
-11 kids in 9 cages.
-None of the cages are large enough for a full grown person to lay down in (stretched out). -None of the cages had blankets or pillows. -There were alarms that sounded when the cage doors opened. Arguing that the cages may have been in the kids best interest is just plain ridiculous. The fault lies with both the "parents" and the adoption agency. Both of them need to be severely worked over. One of them with a baseball bat, one of them with some new leadership and rules. I'll let you decide which is which. |
09-13-2005, 06:48 AM | #12 (permalink) |
Little known...
Location: Brisbane, Australia
|
Regardless of any kind of mitigating circumstances, I can conceive of say, <i>bigger</i> cages for instance.
More to the point, I find it difficult to imagine reasons why anyone would adopt eleven autistic apparently violent children without even eleven cages. At the very least, these people have failed to provide an acceptable environment for these children, if indeed they are not guilty of deliberate abuse. |
09-13-2005, 06:58 AM | #13 (permalink) |
Guest
|
Apart from the sensationalism of the news story, I don't see sleeping arrangements being anything to get worked up about. They may well have had pillows and blankets, there were 11 children and 9 'cages' does that mean that the two eldest children slept in a bed? We don't know because the sensationalism of the story would be lost if that were the case.
Yes 11 children is enough for anyone to look after, and I might have some views over how sensible it is for two private individuals running what would appear to be a back-door, unregulated and state funded orphanage - but the cages I can't comment on because they've evidently been exaggerated by the distorted lens of the media. For example, I remember my baby brother being put to bed in a cot (a bed with rails to stop him falling out at night), he used to play in a play pen - again, basically a cage. We used to have a gate at the top and bottom of the stairs to stop him being able to fall down the stairs. Cripes, we even had the child-lock switches set to lock on the back-doors of the car so that he couldn't accidentally fall out as we were driving along. Since we kept him in such blatant captivity, should he have been taken off and put into a foster home? |
09-13-2005, 07:00 AM | #14 (permalink) |
Insane
Location: West Virginia
|
There's definitly something going onn behind this story......
First off, why weren't home visits done to see what conditions these kids were? Secondly, Why would you adopt not just 1, but 11 autistic kids if you didn't know how to deal with them? Thirdly, why weren't the parents arrested? I always find that the key question in any child abuse case....It's kinda like how they charged and tried Michael Jackson for sexual abuse, but never took aways his kids.
__________________
~*~* He with a sharp tongue slits his own throat *~*~ |
09-13-2005, 07:24 AM | #16 (permalink) | |
Crazy
|
Quote:
Queue that great old Pink Floyd song... $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ |
|
09-13-2005, 08:18 AM | #18 (permalink) |
Addict
Location: Tokyo, Japan
|
I dunno guys, when I think of kids, I always want to lock them in cages.
Now, I'll give them blankets and pillows, but I still fully intend on putting my kids in cages. Kids run around all crazy at night, you tell them to lay down and sometimes they get up and run around keeping the other kids awake.. maybe they all join in. I don't know, I see how the thought process comes about. After sleeping in that capsule hotel I have been thinking about having those boths installed in my home.. so relaxing to be away from everything 100% dark and great for space. I think until we see more info, you shouldn't be so hard on the parents.. Where are the kids now, think the next place will be better or worse?
__________________
. |
09-13-2005, 08:45 AM | #19 (permalink) | |
Junkie
|
Quote:
And as for not being to hard on the parents, I still don't know of any valid reason for one family to have that many autistic children, an then to house them in 3'x3' cages. I think that they should definately see some jail time, as well as paying back what they recieved from the state for "care" of the children. |
|
09-13-2005, 08:55 AM | #20 (permalink) |
Rail Baron
Location: Tallyfla
|
Stories I read say they are all adopted from other states. Neighbors say the parents "home school" the kids and have them work abnormally long hours in the yard and garden. They used the cages for punishment and sleeping. Sounds like slavery to me.
__________________
"If I am such a genius why am I drunk, lost in the desert, with a bullet in my ass?" -Otto Mannkusser |
09-13-2005, 09:10 AM | #21 (permalink) |
whosoever
Location: New England
|
the words "no bedding" automatically rule out any possibility that these people (i won't say parents) intended the best interest of the children.
now, it may be an issue that these two individuals did not have the capability to understand what the best interests of the children were...which would mitigate my anger at them personally, though not at the fact that this situation has come to pass. In any event, the placing agency is responsible for their sever neglegence in not properly examining the home before placing more children, or for not do follow up visits on those kids already placed there. i know many caring and compassionate would be parents who would love to adopt...and they're put through hoop after hoop of red tape and tests. i can only justify those delays of putting a child with loving parents if that care and caution prevented such horrors as this case.
__________________
For God so loved creation, that God sent God's only Son that whosoever believed should not perish, but have everlasting life. -John 3:16 |
09-13-2005, 09:59 AM | #22 (permalink) |
Addict
Location: Tokyo, Japan
|
Well, I want to see a picture of the cage before I start throwing stones.
But if it is true, there is no bedding or pillow, that is shitty. And the capsule hotels, they don't slide you in, you crawl into it yourself. They are kind of small, but you can almost sit up inside. You have a small TV and a radio, lights and alarmclock all build into the wall. I really enjoyed my stay, but I wasn't locked inside. These people were only locking them up at night. So I assume during day time it was all normal living. I only want to see the cages before I cast stones. Isn't it strange that they refuse to show pictures, or that each news story describes the 'cage' a little diffrent?
__________________
. |
09-13-2005, 10:46 AM | #23 (permalink) |
Knight of the Old Republic
Location: Winston-Salem, NC
|
There's an odd lack of information in the article. I don't see how any 14 year old can fit in a cage that is 3x3 unless they were completely compact to where they couldn't move. I'm here measuring 3 feet in the air...it's barely enough room to fit my leg in, much less an entire teenager. I imagine one side of the cage was 3 feet and the rest was exaggerated.
Is anyone else reminded of The Shield episode where the foster parents locked their kids in the tiny rooms in the walls? This seems straight from it...really weird. -Lasereth
__________________
"A Darwinian attacks his theory, seeking to find flaws. An ID believer defends his theory, seeking to conceal flaws." -Roger Ebert |
09-13-2005, 10:59 AM | #24 (permalink) | |
Fuckin' A
Location: Lex Vegas
|
Quote:
__________________
"I'm telling you, we need to get rid of a few people or a million." -Maddox |
|
09-13-2005, 11:54 AM | #25 (permalink) | |
President Rick
Location: location location
|
Quote:
__________________
This post is content. If you don't like it then you are not content. Or perhaps just incontinent. This is not a link - Do not click here I hate animated avatars. |
|
09-13-2005, 02:56 PM | #26 (permalink) | |
whosoever
Location: New England
|
Quote:
No pictures is probably directly related to the fact that these people have not been charged. If the media asked to photograph your home for the purpose of telling the world what an unfit parent you were?
__________________
For God so loved creation, that God sent God's only Son that whosoever believed should not perish, but have everlasting life. -John 3:16 |
|
09-13-2005, 04:46 PM | #27 (permalink) |
All important elusive independent swing voter...
Location: People's Republic of KKKalifornia
|
This story just gets a bit weirder and weirder. There are no signs of abuse, the kids seem fine (very well, even), and the parents were told by a pyschiatrist to place the kids in "cages" for sleeping.
(sorry, I am not sure how to "quote" the articles - hopefully someone can help) http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/09/13/cag....ap/index.html http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050913/...caged_children
__________________
"The race is not always to the swift, nor battle to the strong, but to the one that endures to the end." "Demand more from yourself, more than anyone else could ever ask!" - My recruiter |
09-13-2005, 05:12 PM | #28 (permalink) | |
Deja Moo
Location: Olympic Peninsula, WA
|
From Jorgelito's Links
Quote:
|
|
09-13-2005, 11:04 PM | #29 (permalink) | |||||
32 flavors and then some
Location: Out on a wire.
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
For some couples, this is their job. They take in the maximum number of children they can, and live off of the subsidies paid by the government. This situation is tolerated by the government because it costs less to pay foster or adoptive parents than it does to run group homes. Quote:
Quote:
Gilda
__________________
I'm against ending blackness. I believe that everyone has a right to be black, it's a choice, and I support that. ~Steven Colbert |
|||||
09-14-2005, 03:14 AM | #30 (permalink) |
Insane
|
Ok, obviously there are some people who do horrible things to adopted children and get away with it for far too long. However, we don't really have enough information right now to specify what abuses took place.
For example, a 3x3x6 foot space would be a quite spacious sleeping area. No blankets or pillows might only be the case until nightfall; I can see the sense in having them cleaned or otherwise put away during the day. The "cages" are actually probably a pretty good idea. *GASP* I know, I know... but they are painted primary colors not just some crate stuck in a shed. If you have 11 mentally handicapped children sleeping in the same room and you give them a bedtime... good grief I don't see that working at all! Certainly a system by which you can assure that if they leave their own area you are alerted is good, otherwise you would have children wandering around all the time. I don't want to sound like I am defending those who really do abuse children but I think it is a little sensationalist for the article to start of about how the children were "kept in cages!!1!one!" and then later on admit that they were painted pastel and apparently had no locking devices at all. |
09-15-2005, 05:42 AM | #32 (permalink) | ||
Rail Baron
Location: Tallyfla
|
Quote:
Quote:
Obviously there are conflicting reports of the "cages" and no one has yet to provide a picture of them. I just recently heard the "cages" described as bunk-beds built into the wall. Now I don't know about you, but I've never had more than 3 feet in height between bunk beds. Another thing is that if these are cages, they are 3 dimensional. The only reports I've read only provide 2 dimensions, 40inch by 40inch, or 3ft by 3ft. It is possible that the media is leaving out the 5 ft in lenth and just reporting the height and depth of the "cages". Also, I read that only one of the "cages" had a door on it that could be locked, all of the other "cages'" doors could be freely opened. Now if I had 11 handicapped children sleeping at night, I would like to know if any of them got out of bed, so the alarm makes sense. I also heard that among the various disabilities these children have, one of them has AIDS. And he likes to bite. To me it would make sense, for his saftey and the saftey of eveyone in the house, that this kid not be able to bite other children. I also heard a report that one of the autistic kids was violent. This could very well be a case of news media sensationalism, and I took the bait, hook, line, and sinker. But then once I read and heard more on it, some things in the media stories just don't seem to add up. The children we well fed, well dressed, and neighbors say well-adjusted. There have yet to be any signs of abuse. I'm sure there's some distortion going on here, I'd like to know how much.
__________________
"If I am such a genius why am I drunk, lost in the desert, with a bullet in my ass?" -Otto Mannkusser |
||
09-15-2005, 01:06 PM | #33 (permalink) |
peekaboo
Location: on the back, bitch
|
The NY Daily News reported that these 'cages' were cribs with tops that latched down at night and some had alarms to warn the parents if one of the children lifted it. They were painted in bright primary colors (while they have been playing up the 40"x40" deep, they have not said how long they are-40 inches is a bit wider that a standard crib) It also reported statements by neighbors saying the children played frequently in the yard, were clean and well-fed and "better dressed than most kids in Cleveland". It went on to say that a family psychiatrist recommended this sleeping arrangement to keep them from harming each other due to the problems these kids had including autism and fetal alcohol syndrome.
No charges have yet been filed. Link My primary concern would be a fire with this arrangement. Not ever having to deal with severe disorders in children, I can't place judgement on this if it was indeed suggested by a professional. Bizarre, yes, but criminal, no idea....
__________________
Don't blame me. I didn't vote for either of'em. |
09-15-2005, 02:18 PM | #34 (permalink) |
Insane
|
ngdawg
I would be concerned with a fire in the sleeping place of children with disorders in any arrangement. I would suspect however that with the care put into making cribs with remote alarms, at least one fire detector was present. Outside help would certainly be required in an emergency situation and I think the crib alerts would bring help if even one of the children had a problem. I think that the most important moral of this story is not to jump to conclusions when given incomplete and misleading information (although it being misleading of course complicates matters). There was a surprising amount of unwarranted venom displayed near the start of the thread, and the most enlightening thing I found was how close I came to falling into the same trap. |
09-15-2005, 02:55 PM | #35 (permalink) | ||
President Rick
Location: location location
|
More info and pics
http://www.newsnet5.com/news/4975043/detail.html Quote:
Mother Accused Dad Of Abusing Kids Found In Cages Wife Filed For Divorce In 2001 Quote:
__________________
This post is content. If you don't like it then you are not content. Or perhaps just incontinent. This is not a link - Do not click here I hate animated avatars. |
||
09-15-2005, 03:46 PM | #37 (permalink) | |
President Rick
Location: location location
|
Quote:
__________________
This post is content. If you don't like it then you are not content. Or perhaps just incontinent. This is not a link - Do not click here I hate animated avatars. |
|
10-24-2005, 10:31 AM | #38 (permalink) | |
Junkie
Moderator Emeritus
Location: Chicago
|
followup on this story...
Father says confining children was necessary Quote:
__________________
Free your heart from hatred. Free your mind from worries. Live simply. Give more. Expect less.
|
|
10-24-2005, 12:12 PM | #39 (permalink) | |
Junkie
Location: In the land of ice and snow.
|
Quote:
|
|
10-24-2005, 02:54 PM | #40 (permalink) |
All important elusive independent swing voter...
Location: People's Republic of KKKalifornia
|
I disagree: That is not a lot of money a month for all those kids. But in anycase, I don't understand why they are getting money in the first place. Didn't they adopt those kids? My friend has a "special needs" sister (she's retarded) but they don't get money from the government.
I think the story is starting to become clearer and clearer. According to what we know so far, I don't think the parents are bad here. Looks like a jumpy press and sensationalist media instead. Still, it is strange that there isn't a picture to go with the story. But at least we're getting some more details. |
Tags |
prisons |
|
|