Vincentt

http://www.rivier.edu/faculty/dburge.../fallicies.htm

From Ignorance: because something is not known to be true, it is assumed to be false.

There are lots of sources about this happening.

There were enough complaints that the army halted recruiting briefly to "fix" the problem.
But in one day, what did they really do.

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jwoody

What about the last part of Cellophanedeity's question?

What happens if you don't sign?

Do you have to leave the country, or something? Go to jail forever?

Do they just give you a dirty look and talk about you behind your back?

What happens?

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maleficent

Not registering is a felony. Young men convicted of failure to register may be fined up to $250,000, imprisoned for up to five years, or both. In addition to being subject to prosecution, failure to register may cause you to permanently forfeit eligibility for certain benefits.

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Pragma

To add to what maleficent said, if you don't sign up for the Selective Service, you can't receive any kind of federal aid or scholarships for college. Honestly, it's just another form to fill out when you turn 18 - but in case of a draft, things would change.

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Eat antimatter, Posleen-boy!

Vincentt

I didn't even know I was required to sign up for the selective service until I was applying for college aid and loans.

It was incorpoated into the system, I just selected 'yes' in a internet box, and it signed me up for the service.

They make it not a big deal, so that people don't say anything about it.

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texxasco

Yep...You're right. And now that the US Armed Forces is hurting for recruits, if I were turning 18 registering with selective service would be one of the first things I did...regardless of whether I was continuing on to college or not. I wouldn't think there would be a wave of prosecutions for those that failed to register, but if I were 18, or about to turn 18, I would err on the side fo caution and go ahead and register. It's not a big deal really...takes 5 minutes.

And....I served my 3 years active duty (83-86) and then was in the reserves for three years afterwards..completing my 6 year commitment. (Now it's 8 yrs). I think military service is an excellent option for young people. Both because it is an honor to serve your country, and it is a great way to pay for college. If you deal with recruiters as shrewdly as the average person does with a salesman when buying a car, then you're not likely to get screwed over. Just research what the guy in uniform is telling you before you sign on the dotted line.

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...A Bad Day of Fishing is Better Than a Great Day at Work!

Vincentt

The only problem with that texxasco is that the kids the recruiters are talking to,
they have never met a car salesmen.

They are mostly under 18, and being fed a sales pitch.

There is enough shady dealings happening with recruiters to be worried as a parent.

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bad jane

the problem with them having all the contact info is that recruiters are a pain in the ass. i was hounded (and i mean hounded) for years by recruiters. the last year of high school, every summer home from college, and then some more when i came home after graduating. multiple branches, calling several times a week. in hs they'd come by the school to see me.

it's not as easy as just saying "thanks, but no thanks" and you're done. several of my friends went through similar things.

and even if you do agree to talk with them--the will feed you a total line of bs. of the 20 or so friends who did enlist, only 2 don't feel they got screwed over. i eventually spoke with a recruiter and everything sounded pretty good. so my dad insists on coming with me next time i talk to him--and i'm eternally grateful to him for it. needless to say, i never joined up.

that's not to say it isn't right for anyone--just that the military is not right for everyone. recruiters will tell a very different story because that is their job. for kids who don't know any better, why wouldn't they believe it? i'm not stupid, but the recruiter has an answer for everything and it isn't always honest. and when my dad (career military) was sitting next to me, the answers certainly changed from what i'd heard when i was alone. i may have been legal, but my life experience was still that of a child--why wouldn't i believe what the recruiter said? he's the one the military says can answer my questions regarding training and programs--how am i supposed to know he'll lie about it?

i do not have a problem with the military or people enlisting. but just as i don't like credit card companies targetting freshman on a college campus, i don't like recruiters that hound high school students. they intentionally solicit those who are least able to defend against their tactics.

texxasco

Well I see your point, and I also agree with a lot of what Bad Jane had to say as well. I am getting a little education as to exactly how bad the recruiters are these days. A lot seems to have changed since I enlisted in the fall of 1982. (God has it been 23 years already?) I enlisted in November 1982, a week before my 18th birthday, only because I had to have my parents signature being under 18. I could have waited a week or so, but I wanted to make a point with my Dad, whom I was having issues with at the time (like a lot of teenagers). I worked my own deal, and all the recruiter did was coem over to the house one evening, lay everything we had worked out in front of the folks, and they had to sign off on it...which they did. Recruiters never really were all that aggressive back then, which apparently has changed as well. It's a shame they are that way...what an embarrassment for them, and the military as well.

Thanks for the enlightenment.

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...A Bad Day of Fishing is Better Than a Great Day at Work!

Psycho Dad

Well IMO it deserves all the honor it ever did, it just doesn't receive it like it should.

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Don't always trust the opinions of experts.

djtestudo

That's why you still are considered under parental control at that age; there are decisions that you shouldn't make simply after a phone call.

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"Final thought: I just rented Michael Moore's Bowling for Columbine. Frankly, it was the worst sports movie I've ever seen."
--Peter Schmuck, The (Baltimore) Sun

Elphaba

The military receives more honor now than that of the returning Vets from Viet Nam, PD. Much to the shame of all of Americans' during that time and how the returning soldiers were treated, out of guilt, we recognize that our soldiers now are simply doing their duty.

There is a big difference, though. A drafted military came back vilified from Viet Nam. A voluntary military for (IMO) another unjust war, is being treated with respect.

Rightfully so.

Psycho Dad

Good point Elphaba.

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Don't always trust the opinions of experts.

Vincentt

I don't want to make it sound that I don't like the Military, or that I feel it has no honor.
If joining the Military is a full knowing choice then I respect that.

But the shady recruiting.. bothers me.

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Seer666

All I have to say is, this is the way the world works. Period. They are doing nothing new. Just change the word soldier to jut about anything else. Catholic, hippie, drugie, sports star, suicide bomber, ect. They are doing nothing new, and nothing that every other group on the planet aren't doing. At least this is a group that tries to instill a sense of honor and responcibliety in people. Shameful? Maybe. But they are better then about 99% of the other options.

Not a big recruting tool any more. Hell more of them show pics of them huddled down in full gear hidin behind a wall or in a hole somewhere joking wiht a bunch of of there boys then they do the vacation spots. Yes, they will ie through their teeth if they have to, they are sales men, after all. But if you believe anything a recruter tells you other then the rank on his sleeve, you're moron and have it comeing anyway. My recruter loved me. I was one of the ones that showed up out of the blue and said "Sign me up" before he could even start on the ssales pitch. A good number of my friends are exmilitary, so I knew what I was getting into. And I have a good number of friends over in Iraq right now, and you would be amazed athow many of them DO enjoy themselves there. There are some hard times, and I am not trying to make it sound like they enjoy blowing people up or anythig like that, but they have forged some close and lasting relationships with people over there, and once it is all said and done, when they come home, they will have people that are closer then blood to them. SOme of them also hate it in the extreem though, so again, just shows, life is what you make it.

And what makes you think they will regret it? Could be the best thing they ever did for themselfs.

It didn't have anything to do with at first. I won't argue that at all. But now it has EVERYTHING to do with us. We opened a can of worms taht will huant us for a long time with this, but now that it's open, we had best make sure we finish it. Much as we can't seem to afford to fight this war, we can afford to lose it even less. the time to debate the justness or need for this war is long past. That ended when our boys hit the groun running. Now it's time to get behind them and do everything we can to make sure they have what they need to get he job done and come home safe.

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Bad spellers of the world untie!!!

I am the one you warned me of

I seem to have misplaced the bullet with your name on it, but I have a whole box addressed to occupant.

Suave

I'd rather not die at the whim of a politician, myself. I believe this information would be used to assist more aggressive and personalised recruiting strategies, of which I am not a fan. People should only join when fully aware of what comes with it.

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seadevil

Stompy,

Wow, you amaze me, you must have been one hell of a recruiter to know that all recruiters lies. No, you did not say all, but you implied it.

ONE - I did recruit for the U.S. Navy.
TWO - I NEVERED LIED to an applicant. An applicant is anyone that I sat down with and discussed their options.
THREE - Whenever I contacted a potential applicant, if they told me what their plans were I would congratulate them and asked (yes I asked them) if I could call back to see if things were going as planned. More often than not they said yes.
FOUR - I never promised anything that I personally could not provide. Not a specific job, duty station, etc...
FIVE - When asked the tough questions (the ones that I feel you implied all recruiters would lie about) I answered them and if I didn't know the answer, I immediately call one of the other recruiters in my district to get the answer.
SIX - I was a damn good recruiter and I did my job with the highest of ethics.

Does this mean that just because I didn't do any of the things you implied, none of the other recruiters did either. No I am not saying that. Matter of fact, I have met recruiters who would do just about anything for a contract. But guess what, for every good person in a profession, there is someone bad. This goes for police, lawyers, doctors, even computer programmers.

As for recruiters obtaining list of kids in school I'm all for it. Otherwise, how are they to do their job if they don't know how to contact them. There is a solution though, do away with recruiters and bring back the draft. Then do as Israel and every citizen would complete two years of active military service and then be in the reserves for the rest of their life. How do I know this, well, Israel is one of the wonderful places that I was able to visit (twice).

Also, before any person joins the military, they should research it. Talk to people (more than one of course) who have been in the military. Research it on the internet, that is what my son did before he joined (he is in his second week of boot camp). Did I pressure him, no, this is something that he has wanted to do for the last four years. Any person who joins in todays day and time and does not get what they wanted out of it can only blame themselves. There is way to much information out there to obtain before making a decision.

Seadevil

Tophat665

Yet..........

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