Redjake

My semester has started here at college (I'm a senior) and I am currently taking the "capstone" or "final" Computer Information Systems course at my university. My instructor, while being an awesome guy, informed me today in front of the class that my hair (it's down to my shoulders) is too long and will have to be cut to make presentations in the class and that it was unprofessional. Cut my hair? What the fuck?

I'm paying to go here. I'm not cutting my hair for a class. That is completely absurd. Women don't have to cut their hair for the workplace, or for this class. What's the difference? Do I have to cut my hair simply because most other guys have short hair? I don't think that would be fair.

Do you think the instructor should be allowed to reserve the right to force a student to cut his hair to be more professional?


I guess I would be pretty content with pulling it into a grungy man-ponytail or slick it back with gel. But he didn't act like that was an option. I'll have to stop by his office.


What's ya'll's take on the situation? If he allows me to slick it back or put it in a ponytail, should I do that and just drop the argument? Or should I be allowed to wear it how I want?


How about in the work place?

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sadistikdreams

Man. What, is it still the 60s? Come on, that's bullshit.

If this teacher is that outdated, he shouldn't be teaching.

I think the least you should do to "look professional" is give yourself a nice shave, if you have a goatee or moustache, keep it nice and neat. You could slick your hair back, or style it somewhat. Just so long as you aren't doing these professional things looking all shaggy and overly hippy-looking.

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Charlatan

In a University setting your prof is out of line. He would be in line to *suggest* that long hair might create issues in getting a position in the workforce.

Offer an opinion is one thing. Stating that you cannot present in his class without cutting your hair is another.

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maleficent

I don't think you should have to cut your hair, pulling it back into a neat ponytail should be a good option.

Suggest that as an alternative, and if that doesnt work - i'd talk to the dean and see if there's a compromise that can't be reached.

I wouldn't use the argument that women don't have to cut their hair, because in the business world, long hair on women is normal, use this to you advantage and try to keep your professionalism... use it as a test for the real world...

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Fremen

This isn't highschool. It's not their place to decide what your appearance should be like.
He sounds like he has a personal problem with you by the way he addressed you in front of the class, or, he may have done it to make an example of you to give a heads up to any other long-haired gentlemen in his class.
Either way, talk to him and try to work it out, and if he won't budge on it, tell him to frack off. (not seriously recommended)


(edit) Follow mal's advice.

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kwong_1978

Your Prof is a dumbass. Tell him to go fcuk himself and mind his own business. And in a computer science course too? Damn! That is one anal prof u got. I feel for ya.

Redjake

Computer Information Systems. A lot different.......we will definitely be talking to end-users a lot more......but still. I mean I stress he is a nice guy, and very professional, I just didn't understand his asking me to cut my hair.

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Grasshopper Green

You are paying good money to go to that college...not the other way around. Unless you are employed by the university, this seems utterly ridiculous and out of line to me.

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Lasereth

Yeah, I'm in the same class as Redjake and I was really surprised that the teacher asked him to cut his hair. I thought it was out of line. I'd just slick it back or put it in a ponytail during presentations.

-Lasereth

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Sweetpea

That is way out of line. A professor has no right to make a personal comment about your appearance or ask you to do anything to change it. you could actually make a complaint against your professor if you choose.

You asked about... In the work place, some companies have different policies.

however, my husband works at Microsoft and they are one of the most successful computer companies in the world and i have seen many people there in different states of dress and appearance... from super long hair on the men to people wearing flip flops and sweatpants... My sister however is an engineer at a different yet similar company and they are Very strict about what their employees wear etc. So, it really depends on the company. some companies will care, some will not. I work in social work... no one cares what we look like as long as we're presentable

At any rate... be yourself and try to find a company that fits you. but if a company wants to pay you 80,000 and wants you to have a clean cut image... take the job and cut your hair

Sweetpea

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meembo

I have to be the devil's advocate (and I'm qualified, since in college I had a beard and hair almost down to my waist in a ponytail) --

There is a bigger picture here. You WILL be judged (by the appearance your long hair) by a good fraction of potential employers in the future. Whether or not that is the motivation behind the dictates of your instructor -- I don't know. I recommend that you go talk to him.

It would be wise of you to acknowledge that however fucked up it may seem to judge your capabilities by your appearance, it will in fact happen at some point. Make sure that you understand that you may unfairly suffer a consequence in being judged "unkempt" by an authority figure, like a future boss or an authoritative college instructor. It's a compromise (often unfair) that is unavoidable in life. Some people suffer because of the color of their skin, or their gender -- for you, now, it's your hair.

Just go into the situation with your eyes wide open. You may certainly choose to do your presentatiuon with your hair gathered in some way, but I would talk to the instructor beforehand to have a good idea of what to expect. If you can do the presentation with your hair slicked or in a ponytail without any further consequence, I'd definitely go for it. Fight the power if you must, but be prepared to pay the price.

I finally cut my hair when my brother got married to a banker's daughter. My brother wanted me to be the best man, but it was clear that the long hair was going to be a distraction that my brother would avoid with his new in-laws if possible. I cut my hair then, and I did not regret doing it for a good reason, that my brother's wedding was a good reason to put his needs first.

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StanT

May I suggest a short, well groomed Bozo wig?

In the working world, that's the way it goes sometimes. My first job in IT required me to wear a business suit and cut 2' off my hair. It also doubled my salary. I felt like a bit of a sellout, but it sure beat being broke. Just get the job offer before you sell out.

chance

I also think he is out of line. You should talk to someone about this, I am sure they will see the truth and side with you.

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TM875

Should the professor make you cut your hair for the class? Absolutely not.

Should you cut your hair for the business world? You're be stupid if you didn't.


His point, though presented wrongly, is correct. You will be judged on your appearance. Even though this isn't 1950, the United States (and the world) is becoming increasingly conservative. Long hair on guys DOES NOT give the first impression that you're a go-getter; instead, it makes you look like a pot-smoking lazy slacker. Tell the guy to shove it up his ass, but do yourself a favor and get a trim before your first interview.

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VitaminH

While I agree with TM875's point above, I must also say that living and schooling in Chicago, I take public transportation a lot to school/work. I see a lot of buisnessmen in nice suits or at least slacks and ties with that sort of longer shaggy hair going to work. While I think some of the older fasioned type people will still balk at this, I do think it is rapidly becoming more acceptable.

Cutting it for a college class presentation however? BS. He doesn't have a right to say that, especially since you are technically paying (a portion of) his salery.

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RogueHunter65

TM 875 had it basically right. The teacher can't make you cut your hair. But, the business world won't accept you if you don't follow their principles. I myself am a business student and have both of my ears pierced. I know that I will need to take them out and let the holes fill a few months before I start to interview. It's just life. Would I rather get the job or have my ears pierced? I'd rather have the job, so I know what I need to do.

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bendsley

I have friends that are professionals and people that I work with that have longer hair then what one might consider "normal". Would the professor expect someone who is bald to wear a hair piece or "grow" hair for a presentation? I would tell your professor that it's discrimination and that's something that is illegal in the work place. You are paying for your education, tell the professor to shove it up their ass.

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Zeraph

My only advice is, don't take advice on this This is one of those things you need to decide for yourself. You've come to a crossroad, cut your hair for less hassle or go the possibily more difficult route and keep it? It's all priorities.

MovieNut

Good advice all around. A buddy of mine I went to school with (we ended up starting out at the same place) had shoulder-length hair which he didn't cut until right before the job interview.

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Zephyr66

I agree with most people here. He can't force you to cut your hair, but it would definately help in the working world. When I graduate and enter the Engineering world, I'm most likely going to have to cut my hair and keep it neat. Although in my case I might not because I might get a job at my dad's company. But I'm trailing off and I've made my point.

Daniel_

I left college with a long ponytail, and it didn't interfere with my getting a job (drug comapny laboratory).

That said, within six months of cutting it short, I was promoted twice and given a really good one year secondment...

Not saying that they were linked, but it seemed like it at the time.

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ShaniFaye

My Dave has LONG hair, I braid it for him every morning so he goes to work everyday with an 18 inch braid. Fortunately his company doesnt care about hair or tats or piercings....but plenty of them do.

This Prof is an ass IMO, you need to talk to him to try to find out if thats what he really meant.

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guthmund

Nope, but bear in mind that it's going to cost you, one way or another. I mean, what's to stop him from docking points from your presentation? Or picking on you later? Or telling the other instructors what a horrible, horrible person you are?

Not fair, I know, but it is what it is.

If it were me, I'd show up 'full shag,' consequences be damned.

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Leo

I'll take this from a recruiting perspective.

I'm enough of a realist to know that hiring managers will make judgments (for/against/indifferent) on long hair the moment you walk through the door for an interview.

And I'm enough of an idealist to think that if you have to adjust to fit in to the point where you feel you're compromising who you are as a person, then it's the wrong workplace for you.

Depending on what research you read, most inexperienced recruiters sum up a candidate in the first 4 minutes (some suggest it's a matter of seconds, but I'm not convinced of this, either way it's a short time and usually when the recruiter is at their most alert and the candidate is at their worst) and the recruiter spends the rest of the interview 'editing' what they're hearing to confirm their initial judgment. Psychs refer to this as the 'halos and horns' effect. In this case, if the recruiter doesn't like long hair, it's pretty unlikely you'll get the job. But you have to ask yourself; 'if that's the case, is this a place I want to work'?

Then again, you have to ask yourself; 'is it really that important to me'?

Redlemon

I'm an environmental consultant. At my first job, one of my co-workers had long bushy hair. We had more than one client who requested that we send someone else in the future rather than the long-haired guy. FWIW.

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ratbastid

They're definitely linked.

I got a fine job with a ponytail. I became a Senior Web Developer with a ponytail down to my waist.

Then I cut my hair, and within a couple months I was Executive Vice President, had a seat on the Board of Directors, and was running the company while my boss spent a year traveling in Australia.

It's not that it should be this way, but it is this way. You wear your hair long (or any number of other affectations) and people know the whole deal with you the first instant they look at you, and they don't look any further. And I know, speaking only for myself, I used that automatic-knowing about myself to keep myself small and in a safe little box. Getting rid of my hair was a huge breakthrough for me, because suddenly people were actually LOOKING at me, and I had to BE something.

BigBen

I don't have a problem with long hair, when it is kept neat and clean. There is a big difference there.

If you look like you just got out of bed, then there may be some misconceptions on my part. I think that way about people with short hair too.

I think that this prof is not the most politically correct person in the world, and academics is arguably the most politically correct work environment. I would recommend that you tell him that you found his comment inappropriate, and that he might want to refrain from that in the future.

It is true that you have to look a certain way to get noticed in some companies...and you have to get noticed to get promoted.

I want you to take responsibility for your appearance. Nobody is forcing you to grow or cut your hair. Fuck what other people think. Do what makes you happy. Having said that, it will be hard to complain that you got passed over for promotion (or even a job interview at your stage) in favour of someone who met the visual standard.

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Rodney

Aside from the viability of long hair in the workplace, there is the main issue: how much power does you professor have over you? He thinks, quite a lot. As an older man who went back to school lately, I must say that many college professors seem to enjoy having authority over their students. A significant minority push it too far.

You state it correctly: "I'm paying for this." That's right, you're the customer. In the real world, you should be well-treated. But the university world doesn't work like that; it's a hierarchy, with the students at the bottom. And some professors and instructors take advantage of that prerogative to force you to do things which are improper. Because they can, because nobody stops them, because they hold your grade over your head and most students will bow to that. And because that's the kind of people they are.

Seen from my older point of view, with a lot of experience in the world of work, I see many college professors as second-raters. Their job is to pass knowledge, and a lot of them do a piss-poor job at it and don't always seem to take it very seriously. At least at UC Santa Cruz.

So you have three choices: 1) give in; 2) have another conversation with the instructor, explain your reasoning and why you think he's wrong, and how you'll have to go to the dean (do it in writing if you think that's best); then give him a chance to respond, as maybe he'll see daylight; 3) Go to the dean, either instead of or after choice 2.

Going to the dean will probably get you the decision you want; of course there is always the chance that your prof may later grade you unfairly. It's childish and unprofessional, but such behavior is tolerated among college instructors. If that happens, you have to go back to the dean again. But -- you may not be the first person to go to the dean about this guy, if he's being this outrageous. And if he's just a lecturer, a part-timer, his place in the educational hierarchy is almost as low as yours, and he may snap to without even a squeak.

His opinion on long hair may have validity, but he's forcing you to change your appearance and lifestyle to pass his class. And he does not have the authority to do that. Although he thinks he does.

Personally, I had a career in tech writing for 20 years and almost always had long hair. Made manager a couple of times, though I didn't really want it. But then tech writers are supposed to be weird and unbusinesslike, so maybe it didn't matter. And they didn't let us out much, either. To be fair, everybody going into the field had hair no longer than an inch above the collar, especially for sales and marketing-related stuff.

StephenSa

I've had long hair since I was seventeen (I'm 38 now) and have dealt with all the ususal discrimination for it. Your professor would be doing his job as an advisor to tell you that in the business world your hairstyle could cause you problems but telling you you're not allowed to do presentations in his class until you cut it is WAY out of line. He sounds like a complete jackass. As for whether you should cut it depends on how important it is to you. For me it is a big part of who I am. Being true to myself is more important than meeting some uptight conservative standard. In other words, fuck'em. I missed some job opportunities but others came along. I work in the creative end of advertising and started in radio so fortunately I get a lot of slack but if they did ask me to cut it I'd tell them no. I've been senior director of video production in Chicago and am lead producer here in Dallas. My salary is higher than any of my more shorn co-workers. It helps to be really good at what you do. If you're making them money they'll learn not to bitch. I've worked with a lawyer that had hair down to his waist and doctor with shoulder length hair as well. After all, its just hair so why do people get all bent out of shape if it's different from their own. Do whatever feels right to you but yes, you can survive and thrive with long hair.

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snowy

My issue with this is that this is something your professor should have told you in private, not in front of the entire class. You are a paying student and have the right to be treated with respect instead of being embarassed in front of your peers. The guy sounds like a jackass.

That said, shoulder-length hair is not that long. Keep it neat and there shouldn't be a problem--and by neat I mean well-trimmed and clean, not shaggy. Though some people have suggested in this thread that the United States is becoming more conservative, that may be true values-wise in some parts of the country. Recent newspaper articles say that employers are willing to overlook such things as tattoos, piercings, and long hair in order to find a qualified candidate as the job market recovers.

Personally, I think it's your call, not your professor's. He should mind his own damn business.

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pig

I've been through this before as well a few times, and ending up cutting my hair for slightly different reasons.

First hair cut: When I was about 19 or so, I was up for a scholarship opportunity in college. I was told that it would "be highly favorable" if I cut my hair. Which I did. I didn't get the scholarship.

I grew it out a few years later, and then cut it again after about 4 years. As perhaps a followup on some of the previous posters, you will be judged by your hair length, just like you are judged physically in everything else, when you enter the business world. Secondly, or perhaps consequently, I have come to feel that I would rather be able to walk into just about any situation, and not have people able to easily think they can size me up. I find it's a little better to remain a little difficult. Short hair, but not too conservative; regular clothes. Tattoos not visible when clothed, etc. Depending on where I'm going, I can adjust to match the climate...and the kicker is...I personally don't feel that it has changed my root outlook on life or my basic philosophy at all. But it does make people around you more relaxed and willing to open up, confide in you, present you with opportunities, etc.

But no, in the classroom it is inappropriate to dock you points for your hair. That said, realize that it happens all the time. From inside the ivory tower, I can tell you that the vast majority of professors have zero interest in all the diversity crap they spew. They want kids like them. You'll find, much like the rest of life, that some are cool, some aren't. How you choose to navigate your interractions is up to you.

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Sugarmouse

dont cut your hair cos some closed minded nugwart says you should..tie it back by all means but that is a ridiculous thing to ask of you!

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MSD

The vast majority of people will not accept a professional male with long hair and every last one of them can go fuck themselves.

Ananas

I've been a supervisor in the IT field, and did not have any problems hiring men with longer hair. Perhaps this stemmed from the fact that I personally like men with longer hair (neat, clean, well-groomed, that is) but as long as they could do the job, their hair wasn't an issue for me. It was an issue with some managers, though, and I spent countless hours defending the folks who worked for/with me.

The corporate attitude has changed quite a bit since I first started out (early 80s) when computer pros had a bit more leeway with the dress code by virtue of their knowledge of the then-arcane world of computing.

Try this: put on a suit and tie and see how you look (and feel) with the longer hair. Most companies today also have a dress code, so you may also find yourself disagreeing with that, too. It's a shame that there will always be someone who will object to something that doesn't fit his/her established agenda of what's acceptable, despite the person's ability to do the job.

Not all of us want to be grey men in grey flannel suits.

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bobillydylan

No this guy does not have the right to tell you to cut your hair, but he is right at the way most employers see it as being professional, i would just tie it back as i do when im at work, less hassle less arguement.

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little_tippler

Your Professor was way out of line, and having been in positions at uni where I had cause to complain, I certainly would. Of course, there are consequences and you need to think what is more important to you. If your hair is a big part of who you are, then you should complain about the professor to whoever is above him. It won't make for a good atmosphere but sometimes it has to be done.

That being said, I think long hair on guys is fine, if it suits them. If your long hair makes you look messy and doesn't actually suit you more than a neater cut, then professionally you will suffer because of it. However it is unfair that guys can have short hair and still look below their best and no-one thinks to comment on that... it's a cultural thing at the end of the day. The normal standard is short hair on guys. Girls have it a lot easier.

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Cynthetiq

I have a very long ponytail and at two points in time in my life I cut my hair because I needed a job or needed more money. Yes, NEEDED. I wasn't willing to "hold out" because I'd be "selling out" no I needed to keep a roof over my head and bills paid. Once I got hired I started to grow my hair out again.

While there may be no "dress code" or "policy" your boss may have preconcieved notions as to what you do and how well you do it.

When I did cut my hair one time in the middle of a lunch break to a high and tight number 1, 2 weeks later my boss walked into my office saying that I was doing such a better job. Odd since I did not do one single thing different.

I have had plenty of companies look at me and decide that I wasn't for their company, and you know what? Their company wasn't for me either, I found that it works both ways.

Either way, I'm my statement is "play the game" when it's to your advantage.

I have no degree, long hair to my ass, and a I live a comfortable lifestyle not worrying about money.

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smooth

Maybe this is one of the roots of your "problem." You [b]aren't]/b] the customer. And you are not paying for your education.

If you go to a public university, the state's taxpayers are educating you.
If you go to a private university, endowments are educating you.

Regardless of either, the federal taxpayers are subsidizing huge chunks of your education.
You pay pennies on the dollar for the overhead of your education.

Your professor's job is to train you and produce a viable employee for the job market.


That said, I don't agree with what he said and I would personally refuse to do what he requested.
But I would do so on the basis of my individual rights, not on the basis that I was a valuable customer to the university. After you make your millions in the Tech industry and give a slice of that back to your alma mater, then you get to claim you are a customer...

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Redjake

Interesting perspective, but I can assure you when my $300 a month tuition payments start rolling in after I graduate, I will be paying for it. I am the customer in this situation whether anyone likes it or not. Sure, taxpayers are paying for improvements to the university and all that good stuff, but there are over 12,000 students (not a lot compared to some, but a sizeable chunk) paying anywhere from $4000-8000 a year to come here (depending on housing choice and meal plan) and that is most definitely paying for something . If I give them money, and they give me education, I AM paying for it and I AM a customer. I get an education and they get my money.

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splck

I can't speak for your school, but around here the tuition cost doesn't nearly cover the actual cost of your education. Most students think they are covering the cost, but that ain't the case...not even close.

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