Gossip Serves a Purpose After All! - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

snowy · 08-16-2005, 02:16 PM

From the New York Times: http://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/16/science/16goss.html

Quote:

Have You Heard? Gossip Turns Out to Serve a Purpose

By BENEDICT CAREY
Published: August 16, 2005

Juicy gossip moves so quickly - He did what? She has pictures? - that few people have time to cover their ears, even if they wanted to.

"I heard a lot in the hallway, on the way to class," said Mady Miraglia, 35, a high school history teacher in Los Gatos, Calif., speaking about a previous job, where she got a running commentary from fellow teachers on the sexual peccadilloes and classroom struggles of her colleagues.

"To be honest, it made me feel better as a teacher to hear others being put down," she said. "I was out there on my own, I had no sense of how I was doing in class, and the gossip gave me some connection. And I felt like it gave me status, knowing information, being on the inside."

Gossip has long been dismissed by researchers as little more than background noise, blather with no useful function. But some investigators now say that gossip should be central to any study of group interaction.

People find it irresistible for good reason: Gossip not only helps clarify and enforce the rules that keep people working well together, studies suggest, but it circulates crucial information about the behavior of others that cannot be published in an office manual. As often as it sullies reputations, psychologists say, gossip offers a foothold for newcomers in a group and a safety net for group members who feel in danger of falling out.

"There has been a tendency to denigrate gossip as sloppy and unreliable" and unworthy of serious study, said David Sloan Wilson, a professor of biology and anthropology at the State University of New York at Binghamton and the author of "Darwin's Cathedral," a book on evolution and group behavior. "But gossip appears to be a very sophisticated, multifunctional interaction which is important in policing behaviors in a group and defining group membership."

When two or more people huddle to share inside information about another person who is absent, they are often spreading important news, and enacting a mutually protective ritual that may have evolved from early grooming behaviors, some biologists argue.

Long-term studies of Pacific Islanders, American middle-school children and residents of rural Newfoundland and Mexico, among others, have confirmed that the content and frequency of gossip are universal: people devote anywhere from a fifth to two-thirds or more of their daily conversation to gossip, and men appear to be just as eager for the skinny as women.

Sneaking, lying and cheating among friends or acquaintances make for the most savory material, of course, and most people pass on their best nuggets to at least two other people, surveys find.

This grapevine branches out through almost every social group and it functions, in part, to keep people from straying too far outside the group's rules, written and unwritten, social scientists find.

In one recent experiment, Dr. Wilson led a team of researchers who asked a group of 195 men and women to rate their approval or disapproval of several situations in which people talked behind the back of a neighbor. In one, a rancher complained to other ranchers that his neighbor had neglected to fix a fence, allowing cattle to wander and freeload. The report was accurate, and the students did not disapprove of the gossip.

But men in particular, the researchers found, strongly objected if the rancher chose to keep mum about the fence incident.

"Plain and simple he should have told about the problem to warn other ranchers," wrote one study participant, expressing a common sentiment that, in this case, a failure to gossip put the group at risk.

"We're told we're not supposed to gossip, that our reputation plummets, but in this context there may be an expectation that you should gossip: you're obligated to tell, like an informal version of the honor code at military academies," Dr. Wilson said.

This rule-enforcing dynamic is hardly confined to the lab. For 18 months, Kevin Kniffin, an anthropologist at the University of Wisconsin, tracked the social interactions of a university crew team, about 50 men and women who rowed together in groups of four or eight.

Dr. Kniffin said he was still analyzing his research notes. But a preliminary finding, he said, was that gossip levels peaked when the team included a slacker, a young man who regularly missed practices or showed up late. Fellow crew members joked about the slacker's sex life behind his back and made cruel cracks about his character and manhood, in part because the man's shortcoming reflected badly on the entire team.

"As soon as this guy left the team, the people were back to talking about radio, food, politics, weather, those sorts of things," Dr. Kniffin said. "There was very little negative gossip."

Given this protective group function, gossiping too little may be at least as risky as gossiping too much, some psychologists say. After all, scuttlebutt is the most highly valued social currency there is. While humor and story telling can warm any occasion, a good scoop spreads through a room like an illicit and irresistible drug, passed along in nods and crooked smiles, in discreet walks out to the balcony, the corridor, the powder room.

Knowing that your boss is cheating on his wife, or that a sister-in-law has a drinking problem or a rival has benefited from a secret trust fund may be enormously important, and in many cases change a person's behavior for the better.

"We all know people who are not calibrated to the social world at all, who if they participated in gossip sessions would learn a whole lot of stuff they need to know and can't learn anywhere else, like how reliable people are, how trustworthy," said Sarah Wert, a psychologist at Yale. "Not participating in gossip at some level can be unhealthy, and abnormal."

Talking out of school may also buffer against low-grade depressive moods. In one recent study, Dr. Wert had 84 college students write about a time in their lives when they felt particularly alienated socially, and also about a memory of being warmly accepted.

After finishing the task, Dr. Wert prompted the participants to gossip with a friend about a mutual acquaintance, as she filmed the exchanges. Those who rated their self-esteem highly showed a clear pattern: they spread good gossip when they felt accepted and a more derogatory brand when they felt marginalized.

The gossip may involve putting someone else down to feel better by comparison. Or it may simply be a way to connect with someone else and share insecurities. But the end result, she said, is often a healthy relief of social and professional anxiety.

Ms. Miraglia, the high school teacher, said that in her previous job she found it especially comforting to hear about more senior teachers' struggle to control difficult students. "It was my first job, and I felt overwhelmed, and to hear someone say, 'There's no control in that class' about another teacher, that helped build my confidence," she said.

She said she also heard about teachers who made inappropriate comments to students about sex, a clear violation of school policy and professional standards.

Adept gossipers usually sense which kinds of discreet talk are most likely to win acceptance from a particular group. For example, a closely knit corporate team with clear values - working late hours, for instance - will tend to embrace a person who gripes in private about a colleague who leaves early and shun one who complains about the late nights.

By contrast, a widely dispersed sales force may lap up gossip about colleagues, but take it lightly, allowing members to work however they please, said Eric K. Foster, a scholar at the Institute for Survey Research at Temple University in Philadelphia, who recently published an analysis of gossip research.

It is harder to judge how gossip will move through groups that are split into factions, like companies with divisions that are entirely independent, Dr. Foster said. "In these situations, it is the person who gravitates into a intermediate position, making connections between the factions, who controls the gossip flow and holds a lot of power," he said.

Such people can mask devious intentions, spread false rumors and manipulate others for years, as anyone who has worked in an organization for a long time knows. But to the extent that healthy gossip has evolved to protect social groups, it will also ultimately expose many of those who cheat and betray. Any particularly nasty gossip has an author or authors, after all, and any functioning gossip network builds up a memory.

So do the people who are tuned in to the network. In one 2004 study, psychologists had college students in Ohio fill out questionnaires, asking about the best gossip they had heard in the last week, the last month and the last year. The students then explained in writing what they learned by hearing the stories. Among the life lessons:

"Infidelity will eventually catch up with you," "Cheerful people are not necessarily happy people" and "Just because someone says they have pictures of something doesn't mean they do."

None of which they had learned in class.

My question is: what are some lessons you've learned from gossip? Has there been an occasion where, like Ms. Miraglia, gossip has made you feel better about your situation?

I know whenever I hear about others' shortcomings, or hear about someone who's been less successful than myself despite having more help, I feel better about myself and my situation. When I heard my cousin had gotten his wife pregnant and that's why they'd actually gotten married so soon, I felt better because at least I wasn't 22 and pregnant, despite taking an extra year to finish school. I'm sure through the years of college there are lessons I have learned from gossip. One important one though: don't drop out of school to travel around California in a van and do drugs recreationally. There's plenty of time to do that AFTER receiving a degree. Another important one: don't look a gift horse in the mouth. You never know when your parents will get fed up with you and cut you off.

Siege · 08-16-2005, 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by onesnowyowl

You never know when your parents will get fed up with you and cut you off.

That is so true.

As for gossip, I try to avoid it. Strangely enough, even though I try to avoid it, I hear plenty. Especially around the work place. My goodness, you wouldn't think a simple part time job could be so complicated.

Sugarmouse · 08-16-2005, 03:06 PM

women gossip more than men dont they...i think we are just more social and more focused on communitiies.i dolike to listen to gossip among folk it can be amusiing or interesting..depending on whha it is about...i am definitly guilty myself aswell!

Psycho Dad · 08-16-2005, 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by festered

women gossip more than men dont they...

I think that is a widely held notion, but I really doubt it. I know my wife seems to think that women do and she wonders why she hears about things from my workplace from her sister who doesn't even work there any more. I think it just comes from me personally not being too into the whole gossip thing more than it does with any gender based traits. In fact there is one guy at work I know that I would have to say is THE biggest gossip I know.

bad jane · 08-16-2005, 03:17 PM

bad gossip can often make me feel better about my own situation if i'm not happy with it. knowing that i'm not the worst off, gives me reason to feel grateful. starving people in a foreign land didn't make me want to eat veggies as a child, but it did make me more grateful in my college years that i could at least afford ramen noodles.

and i find a lot of it invaluable in the work place. if someone screws up or doesn't do their job--knowing about it benefits me. i know not to make that type of mistake myself and i know that i need to be extra careful when i'm working with that person.

it can also allow someone who's out of the group, a way in. for example--one woman i work with is a total flake. we'll call her sally. she's just not all there in the head and she annoys the hell out of everyone. for months, sally was on the outside because she's not someone people liked as a person and her personal work habits created more work and stress for everyone else. then another new woman was hired. i'll call her betty. betty is outright rude to staff and we all feel she creates so much extra work and stress that the workday would go smoother if we were short and she just wasn't there at all. betty attempted to befriend sally--and sally relayed the horror stories to the rest of us. this gave her a common bond with the rest of us (dislike for betty) and also initiated sympathy from us because of the unwanted attentions she is receiving from betty. now, sally is considered a part of the group--the problems betty created gave a reason for people to bond with her. and while sally's work performance hasn't improved, we are more tolerant of it because compared to betty--sally is awesome to work with.

snowy · 08-16-2005, 03:20 PM

All my guy friends tell me, "I don't want to hear the gossip," but when I don't fill them in they're disappointed.

Elphaba · 08-16-2005, 04:37 PM

I am in partnership with another franchise and "gossip" from my employees tells me more than my partners wish to share with us. I don't have any time for the usual, who is humping who, but I do want to know anything that affects my business.

mr sticky · 08-16-2005, 04:42 PM

This is quite a vice of mine. I have to know every little thing that's going on around me. Most of my personal interest i.e. magic, martial arts, psychology- are chock full of secrets. I absolutely can't abide not knowing something. It absolutely tears me out of my frame. The absolute worst thing you could say to me is that you have a secret you can't share. You would be subjected to a full-scale seige until you came clean!

But, alas, once I know, I'm fine.

I don't feel the need to spread the gossip, however. I feel the only reason you should break a confidence is to help someone. I don't have to tell. I just have to know.

shesus · 08-16-2005, 05:34 PM

Gossip is therapeutic, but like everything else too much of it can be bad. Friendships can be ruined and lives turned up-side down. I know some of the family gossip, but I don't spread it. As for celebrity gossip, I think that they are free game since they want so badly to be in the lime light. It is good publicity for their movies and music. If you noted Tom and Katie came out when they both had movies premiering.

I do feel better about myself knowing that other people have problems too. Too many people today try to put on a show that everything is perfect in their world. It is nice to know that everyone has problems and some are worse than mine!

ngdawg · 08-16-2005, 06:36 PM

I, apparently, have that look that says 'gossip to me'. When I worked at the school I was attending, it was funny to have one woman come in, say something not particularly nice about another, only to have the other come and do the same thing later. But, unless it affects me directly, I don't repeat these barbs. It serves no purpose to do so, makes me look like the gossipy fool and destroys trust. Besides, unless there's facts to back it up, I generally let it slide.
As for that adage that women gossip more than men, I'd have to say no way. We can get more catty with it, but when it comes to just talking about someone else, men do it just as much if not more. I get all my 'news' about others from the spouse and my male friends, including gossip about me.

mystmarimatt · 08-16-2005, 06:54 PM

I am one of those people folks are drawn to upon which to drop their life problems. So I get lots, and lots of juicy, juicy gossip.

And I can admit, on occasion, it can make another person a nice Schadenfreude for myself. Also, there was a time when I would spread gossip like wildfire, until one occasion where it honestly hurt someone, and I just knew immediately, I had to stop, or curb it somehow. So myself, and my best friend established a system by which, when we find something we really need to gossip about, she and I gossip together, and get it out of our systems, since she's like the left half of my brain, and we know that it doesn't extend beyond us. That ends up curbing the instinct, while still getting it out our systems.

Gilda · 08-16-2005, 09:04 PM

Hmmm. I'm not sure what to think of this. I'm not sure I can fully agree that sharing juicy bits of information about other people's personal lives is a good thing.

Quote:

This grapevine branches out through almost every social group and it functions, in part, to keep people from straying too far outside the group's rules, written and unwritten, social scientists find.

In one recent experiment, Dr. Wilson led a team of researchers who asked a group of 195 men and women to rate their approval or disapproval of several situations in which people talked behind the back of a neighbor. In one, a rancher complained to other ranchers that his neighbor had neglected to fix a fence, allowing cattle to wander and freeload. The report was accurate, and the students did not disapprove of the gossip.

But men in particular, the researchers found, strongly objected if the rancher chose to keep mum about the fence incident.

"Plain and simple he should have told about the problem to warn other ranchers," wrote one study participant, expressing a common sentiment that, in this case, a failure to gossip put the group at risk.

This is the first example they give of positive gossip. I wouldn't consider this gossip at all. Sharing information that has a direct practical effect on another person's business is just doing good business. A broken fence is something a farmer needs to know about.

Quote:

This rule-enforcing dynamic is hardly confined to the lab. For 18 months, Kevin Kniffin, an anthropologist at the University of Wisconsin, tracked the social interactions of a university crew team, about 50 men and women who rowed together in groups of four or eight.

Dr. Kniffin said he was still analyzing his research notes. But a preliminary finding, he said, was that gossip levels peaked when the team included a slacker, a young man who regularly missed practices or showed up late. Fellow crew members joked about the slacker's sex life behind his back and made cruel cracks about his character and manhood, in part because the man's shortcoming reflected badly on the entire team.

So I'm thinking as I read this, criticize the guy for not pulling his weight on the team. Calling him names and being cruel about something that has nothing to do with his ability to row a boat is uncalled for.

Quote:

Knowing that your boss is cheating on his wife, or that a sister-in-law has a drinking problem or a rival has benefited from a secret trust fund may be enormously important, and in many cases change a person's behavior for the better.

Interesting claim, but I fail to see how. How is my behavior going to be improved by knowing any of those things about my colleagues? I can only see bad coming from such knowledge. I might think less of them, which would be unfair if they're not doing a bad job. How could that possibly help me to work with them better?

Quote:

"We all know people who are not calibrated to the social world at all, who if they participated in gossip sessions would learn a whole lot of stuff they need to know and can't learn anywhere else, like how reliable people are, how trustworthy," said Sarah Wert, a psychologist at Yale. "Not participating in gossip at some level can be unhealthy, and abnormal."

So count me in as one of the unhealthy and abnormal. I don't want to know my colleague's personal dirty laundry. It's absolutely irrelevant in how I realte to them. All I need to know about somebody I'm working with is how well they do thier job, and how that relates to my ability to do my job. Anything else is entirely superfluous.

Being asocial does not in any way prevent me from doing my job well. It just means I don't get invited to parties and social gatherings, which I consider a positive thing, as I don't like parties and social gatherings.

[quote]Talking out of school may also buffer against low-grade depressive moods. In one recent study, Dr. Wert had 84 college students write about a time in their lives when they felt particularly alienated socially, and also about a memory of being warmly accepted.

Quote:

Ms. Miraglia, the high school teacher, said that in her previous job she found it especially comforting to hear about more senior teachers' struggle to control difficult students. "It was my first job, and I felt overwhelmed, and to hear someone say, 'There's no control in that class' about another teacher, that helped build my confidence," she said.

Not gossip. This is information that is directly relevant to how well an employee is performing her job. Sharing information about difficult students or classes enables the teachers to collaborate on how to deal with such students as a group, or to help teachers having a difficult time to learn strategies to better deal with them.

Quote:

She said she also heard about teachers who made inappropriate comments to students about sex, a clear violation of school policy and professional standards.

Reporting someone who is flagrantly violating the rules isn't gossiping, it's just responsible behavior.

The problem I see with this is that it seems to define "gossip" very loosely, as if anything anyone says about another person is gossip, as if all small talk is gossip. Hearing bad things about another person's personal life isn't likely to give me any information I need to be able to work with that person better. Information about how and how well they do their job I wouldn't classify as gossip, as that information helps me to relate to that person on a professional level and enables me to do my job better.

This is, I think, the reason I dislike those celebrity news shows and so forth. I don't want to know about the personal lives of celebrities, as that can only interfere with my ability to enjoy their work, but not enhance it. Likewise, I don't want to know about my colleague's personal foibles. So long as they don't affect his or her ability to do his or her job, it's just personal information that can only interfere with my ability to work with them.

I work with middle schoolers, and the gossip can get pretty nasty and really end up with hurt feelings. Both sexes do it, but the girls tend to be a lot more nasty about doing it for the purpose of ostrasizing those they disapprove of.

Among adults in a corporate setting, they may very well be right about it being a positive thing. I have no experience with that. And I'd have no way of knowing it's effect among school personnel, as I'm one of those who is "out of the loop" so to speak at school. But the examples they give seem to be somewhat ambiguous, and they seem to avoid admitting that there are negative effects.

I can't say I've every benefitted from a piece of gossip.

Gilda

BigBen · 08-17-2005, 07:34 AM

I would have to confirm the notion (IMO experience) about negative gossip when a person is not pulling their weight. Like the rowing team social experiment, we (my social circle) can get pretty cruel when someone is breaking the informal and silent social rules that we have in place.

I have also been on the recieving end of the stick, and it is a clear signal (when you think that people are talking behind your back) to analyze your situation and be ready to change.

I would disagree with Gilda however,

Quote:

So I'm thinking as I read this, criticize the guy for not pulling his weight on the team. Calling him names and being cruel about something that has nothing to do with his ability to row a boat is uncalled for.

And I think the overall point of the article is exactly the opposite. The gossip IS CALLED FOR, and a necessary part of our social interactions. He is not performing as a team member, and the gossip is a signal to those privy that such behaviour will not be tolerated, at least informally.

In the Army, we gossip like a fucking knitting bee. It is incredible how much time is dedicated to gossip. Looking at the conformity, strict rules and unwritten codes that we have in place, I think it makes more sense now. When we gossip, we keep everyone in line, and informed of the unwritten rules.

I would also like to put in my 2 cents about cross-gender gossip: It is NOT ACCEPTABLE for a male to gossip about a female in my social circle. The fear of sexual harrassment charges or discrimination is far too great. We (meaning the people I gossip to and vice versa) do not spread, start or listen to gossip about females. I wonder if this common amongst other groups?

BTW, have you guys heard about Halx? I hear he is hung like a Shetland Pony...

abaya · 08-17-2005, 08:09 AM

Personally, I find that there is good and bad gossip. Gossip is good if it contributes to overall understanding of a person (usually outside of work/business settings, if you ask me)... sometimes difficult individuals don't like to open up, but if someone else knows a different side of them, it helps me understand and get along with that person much better. If someone tells me something that they directly ask me to not tell anyone else, however, I will respect that wish and not tell anyone.

Gossip is bad if it contributes to everyone harping on the individual in question and if it destroys a person's reputation in any way. I think sharing information is a lot different than purposeful slander. As an anthropologist, I know there has been some research connecting gossip to the way apes used to socialize... that is, by picking bugs out of each other's fur. Gossip is our modern human way of "grooming," in that sense.

And as for the crew team analogy... well, that was dumb. I don't know that anthropologist or his work, but I spent 4 years rowing and there was never that kind of gossip about slackers. Of course, our crew team was evangelical Christian (university) and were very purposeful about having a positive, healthy environment, so gossip was looked down on. We had some very difficult individuals but we dealt with them as a group, and not by gossiping.

So I think the UWisc example is not helpful to the conversation, since it only shows the character of that particular crew team and the kind of leadership and integrity they have (in my opinion).

maleficent · 08-17-2005, 08:25 AM

Quote:

Ms. Miraglia, the high school teacher, said that in her previous job she found it especially comforting to hear about more senior teachers' struggle to control difficult students. "It was my first job, and I felt overwhelmed, and to hear someone say, 'There's no control in that class' about another teacher, that helped build my confidence," she said.

For Ms Miralga to hear it from another teacher, that they, themself, were having a hard time controlling their class, shoudl be better than hearing from one person talking about another person. I don't think talking behind a person's back benefits anyone, because if I were ms Miralga, i'd wonder what they were saying about me... She's seems to be building her self confidence on someone else's troubles...

777 · 08-18-2005, 06:05 AM

hmmm... that's odd. I never heard any gossip at any of my jobs...

Charlatan · 08-18-2005, 06:56 AM

People tell me gossip all the time but I rarely share any... I guess that's why people keep telling me stuff.

Gilda · 08-18-2005, 07:02 AM

Students will sometimes ask me to confirm/deny a rumor they've heard about another teacher or some staff member.

I say to them, "Can you keep a secret?"

"Yeah!"

"So can I."

That's the great thing about having 11 and 12 year olds. They've never heard most of the old jokes.

Mostly, though, it's because I'm so out of the loop that they find out all the good stuff before I do, and I tend to get it at the official announcement.

Gilda

BigBen · 08-18-2005, 07:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gilda

...I'm so out of the loop that they find out all the good stuff before I do, and I tend to get it at the official announcement.

Gilda

Man, tell me about that! I have never felt so frustrated as when we are gathered together in a room for "An Anouncement" and everyone knows what is going on except me. People look around at each other and nod to themselves, and I realize that the meeting is a non-event. OOooohh that makes me mad. I tell my buddy, "Why didn't you tell me?!"

"I thought you knew..."

maleficent · 08-18-2005, 07:37 AM

I must have an honest face or something, because i get told stuff all the time... a particular client site especially is good at telling me stuff - if I take one fo the guys out for a beer, it loosens his lips and I just start recording the info... and will report back to my colleagues where it's necessary. For personal stuff people tell me, it will die with me... every so often though, (like a colleauge who's wife is expecting -- after 3 miscarriages, she got pregnant again, and he told m e - and told me not to tell anyone but he was excited and wanted to just tell and be able to talk about it - whatever... when they finally annouced it... I had to check myself - OK, did I know about this or not... That happens all to often where people will tell me something,, ,then it gets announced publicly down the road... and I have to remember whether this was a sworn to secrecy or not...

08-16-2005, 03:06 PM	#3 (permalink)
Sugarmouse Insane Location: Preston lancs(i know i know)	women gossip more than men dont they...i think we are just more social and more focused on communitiies.i dolike to listen to gossip among folk it can be amusiing or interesting..depending on whha it is about...i am definitly guilty myself aswell! __________________ Sugarmouse=Festered

08-16-2005, 03:20 PM	#6 (permalink)
snowy Kick Ass Kunoichi Location: Oregon	All my guy friends tell me, "I don't want to hear the gossip," but when I don't fill them in they're disappointed. __________________ If I am not better, at least I am different. --Jean-Jacques Rousseau

08-16-2005, 04:42 PM	#8 (permalink)
mr sticky Psycho Location: NC	This is quite a vice of mine. I have to know every little thing that's going on around me. Most of my personal interest i.e. magic, martial arts, psychology- are chock full of secrets. I absolutely can't abide not knowing something. It absolutely tears me out of my frame. The absolute worst thing you could say to me is that you have a secret you can't share. You would be subjected to a full-scale seige until you came clean! But, alas, once I know, I'm fine. I don't feel the need to spread the gossip, however. I feel the only reason you should break a confidence is to help someone. I don't have to tell. I just have to know. __________________ The sad thing is... as you get older you come to realize that you don't so much pilot your life, as you just try to hold on, in a screaming, defiant ball of white-knuckle anxious fury

08-16-2005, 05:34 PM	#9 (permalink)
shesus Fancy Location: Chicago	Gossip is therapeutic, but like everything else too much of it can be bad. Friendships can be ruined and lives turned up-side down. I know some of the family gossip, but I don't spread it. As for celebrity gossip, I think that they are free game since they want so badly to be in the lime light. It is good publicity for their movies and music. If you noted Tom and Katie came out when they both had movies premiering. I do feel better about myself knowing that other people have problems too. Too many people today try to put on a show that everything is perfect in their world. It is nice to know that everyone has problems and some are worse than mine! __________________ Whatever did happen to your soul? I heard you sold it Choose Heaven for the weather and Hell for the company

08-16-2005, 06:36 PM	#10 (permalink)
ngdawg peekaboo Location: on the back, bitch	I, apparently, have that look that says 'gossip to me'. When I worked at the school I was attending, it was funny to have one woman come in, say something not particularly nice about another, only to have the other come and do the same thing later. But, unless it affects me directly, I don't repeat these barbs. It serves no purpose to do so, makes me look like the gossipy fool and destroys trust. Besides, unless there's facts to back it up, I generally let it slide. As for that adage that women gossip more than men, I'd have to say no way. We can get more catty with it, but when it comes to just talking about someone else, men do it just as much if not more. I get all my 'news' about others from the spouse and my male friends, including gossip about me. __________________ Don't blame me. I didn't vote for either of'em.

08-16-2005, 03:17 PM	#5 (permalink)
bad jane Insane	bad gossip can often make me feel better about my own situation if i'm not happy with it. knowing that i'm not the worst off, gives me reason to feel grateful. starving people in a foreign land didn't make me want to eat veggies as a child, but it did make me more grateful in my college years that i could at least afford ramen noodles. and i find a lot of it invaluable in the work place. if someone screws up or doesn't do their job--knowing about it benefits me. i know not to make that type of mistake myself and i know that i need to be extra careful when i'm working with that person. it can also allow someone who's out of the group, a way in. for example--one woman i work with is a total flake. we'll call her sally. she's just not all there in the head and she annoys the hell out of everyone. for months, sally was on the outside because she's not someone people liked as a person and her personal work habits created more work and stress for everyone else. then another new woman was hired. i'll call her betty. betty is outright rude to staff and we all feel she creates so much extra work and stress that the workday would go smoother if we were short and she just wasn't there at all. betty attempted to befriend sally--and sally relayed the horror stories to the rest of us. this gave her a common bond with the rest of us (dislike for betty) and also initiated sympathy from us because of the unwanted attentions she is receiving from betty. now, sally is considered a part of the group--the problems betty created gave a reason for people to bond with her. and while sally's work performance hasn't improved, we are more tolerant of it because compared to betty--sally is awesome to work with.

08-16-2005, 04:37 PM	#7 (permalink)
Elphaba Deja Moo Location: Olympic Peninsula, WA	I am in partnership with another franchise and "gossip" from my employees tells me more than my partners wish to share with us. I don't have any time for the usual, who is humping who, but I do want to know anything that affects my business.

08-16-2005, 06:54 PM	#11 (permalink)
mystmarimatt Omnipotent Ruler Of The Tiny Universe In My Mind Location: Oreegawn	I am one of those people folks are drawn to upon which to drop their life problems. So I get lots, and lots of juicy, juicy gossip. And I can admit, on occasion, it can make another person a nice Schadenfreude for myself. Also, there was a time when I would spread gossip like wildfire, until one occasion where it honestly hurt someone, and I just knew immediately, I had to stop, or curb it somehow. So myself, and my best friend established a system by which, when we find something we really need to gossip about, she and I gossip together, and get it out of our systems, since she's like the left half of my brain, and we know that it doesn't extend beyond us. That ends up curbing the instinct, while still getting it out our systems. __________________ Words of Wisdom: If you could really get to know someone and know that they weren't lying to you, then you would know the world was real. Because you could agree on things, you could compare notes. That must be why people get married or make Art. So they'll be able to really know something and not go insane.

08-17-2005, 08:09 AM	#14 (permalink)
abaya Location: Iceland	Personally, I find that there is good and bad gossip. Gossip is good if it contributes to overall understanding of a person (usually outside of work/business settings, if you ask me)... sometimes difficult individuals don't like to open up, but if someone else knows a different side of them, it helps me understand and get along with that person much better. If someone tells me something that they directly ask me to not tell anyone else, however, I will respect that wish and not tell anyone. Gossip is bad if it contributes to everyone harping on the individual in question and if it destroys a person's reputation in any way. I think sharing information is a lot different than purposeful slander. As an anthropologist, I know there has been some research connecting gossip to the way apes used to socialize... that is, by picking bugs out of each other's fur. Gossip is our modern human way of "grooming," in that sense. And as for the crew team analogy... well, that was dumb. I don't know that anthropologist or his work, but I spent 4 years rowing and there was never that kind of gossip about slackers. Of course, our crew team was evangelical Christian (university) and were very purposeful about having a positive, healthy environment, so gossip was looked down on. We had some very difficult individuals but we dealt with them as a group, and not by gossiping. So I think the UWisc example is not helpful to the conversation, since it only shows the character of that particular crew team and the kind of leadership and integrity they have (in my opinion). __________________ And think not you can direct the course of Love; for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course. --Khalil Gibran

08-18-2005, 06:05 AM	#16 (permalink)
777 drawn and redrawn Location: Some where in Southern California	hmmm... that's odd. I never heard any gossip at any of my jobs... __________________ "I don't know that I ever wanted greatness, on its own. It seems rather like wanting to be an engineer, rather than wanting to design something - or wanting to be a writer, rather than wanting to write. It should be a by-product, not a thing in itself. Otherwise, it's just an ego trip." Roger Zelazny

08-18-2005, 06:56 AM	#17 (permalink)
Charlatan Getting it. Super Moderator Location: Lion City	People tell me gossip all the time but I rarely share any... I guess that's why people keep telling me stuff. __________________ "My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars." - Old Man Luedecke

08-18-2005, 07:02 AM	#18 (permalink)
Gilda 32 flavors and then some Location: Out on a wire.	Students will sometimes ask me to confirm/deny a rumor they've heard about another teacher or some staff member. I say to them, "Can you keep a secret?" "Yeah!" "So can I." That's the great thing about having 11 and 12 year olds. They've never heard most of the old jokes. Mostly, though, it's because I'm so out of the loop that they find out all the good stuff before I do, and I tend to get it at the official announcement. Gilda __________________ I'm against ending blackness. I believe that everyone has a right to be black, it's a choice, and I support that. ~Steven Colbert

08-18-2005, 07:37 AM	#20 (permalink)
maleficent Junkie Moderator Emeritus Location: Chicago	I must have an honest face or something, because i get told stuff all the time... a particular client site especially is good at telling me stuff - if I take one fo the guys out for a beer, it loosens his lips and I just start recording the info... and will report back to my colleagues where it's necessary. For personal stuff people tell me, it will die with me... every so often though, (like a colleauge who's wife is expecting -- after 3 miscarriages, she got pregnant again, and he told m e - and told me not to tell anyone but he was excited and wanted to just tell and be able to talk about it - whatever... when they finally annouced it... I had to check myself - OK, did I know about this or not... That happens all to often where people will tell me something,, ,then it gets announced publicly down the road... and I have to remember whether this was a sworn to secrecy or not... __________________ Free your heart from hatred. Free your mind from worries. Live simply. Give more. Expect less.