Randerolf

I’m reading a book on proper business etiquette from around the world. As a guy who has always enjoyed learning about people and their cultures, but has lived in the same town (Jacksonville, FL, USA) his whole live – the commentary is interesting. It has also brings up a few questions and observations.

While drinking soup in the UK, move the spoon away from your body. Could someone explain this? Do you chase the spoon/ lean forward while you drink it?

In Latin America and around the Mediterranean people eat dinner around 10 PM. Here in Jacksonville, the last big push for reservations is at around 8 PM.

Chinese are not quiet when drinking soup. I think that I’ve seen a video of diners slurping loudly from their spoon. (or was it from the bowl?)

In Muslim cultures, using the left hand can be dubious. Shake hands or pass food with your right hand.

At a diner event in South Korea, you should never add alcohol to your own glass or add alcohol to a glass that is already filled (you should pour for other people once their glass is empty). The book said that this is also true for Japan along with other regulations.

I was working one night and a party of Russian businessmen were drinking vodka heavily - constantly giving speeches and toasting to one another. I now understand why.

What have you witnessed? What have you discovered abroad?

Elphaba

I think I know the answer to the soup question. The spoon is dipped away from you and then brought up to the mouth (no leaning toward the spoon). Why? I read once that most of the etiquette around eating is centered on not appearing to be starving. Rules on how utensils are used slows down the eating process.

Jinn

Not to derail, but my ettiquette for eating in America is thus:

Cigar in left hand, burger in right hand. If you need to immediately turn or shift, set the burger to the left of the shifter with your right hand and turn the wheel with your left. If you need to use the blinker, burger in right hand to left of shifter, cigar to right from left, blinker with left.. cigar to left, burger to right. Phew. Man ettiquette is silly sometimes..

The one legitimate question I have is those crazy chinese "spoons" they have with soups.. do you just tilt it and slide it into your mouth, or what? Same thing with chopsticks.. any specific side or hand ..?

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Siege

Not too sure about the spoons myself. Usually I just tilt it so the soup goes into my mouth.

As for the chopsticks, you can use whatever hand you want. I think chopsticks are already complicated enough for most people. Imagine using your non-dominant hand

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Vincentt

Well, the spoons aren't used so often.

Most people just pick up the bowl and drink out of it, cup style.

Spoons are sometimes used, same sip style.

I tend to use right hand for chopsticks and left to hold the bowl, I've seen my left-handed friend do left hand chopstickks and right hand bowl holding.

Pouring your own sake isn't a big deal, but most of the time it is best to let someone else pour for you. But I have seen plenty of people pour their own.

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la petite moi

If you're right handed, proper English etiquette while cutting something would be to have the fork in left hand, and knife in right- but don't switch the fork to your right hand when you're about to eat it.

Also, I was asked by two families in France why I kept my hands in my lap (of course, they asked with a giggle)...I then remembered that in Europe it is considered rude not to place your arms on the table and visible to all. Oh, and you should always eat EVERYTHING with a knife and fork. No kidding.

Elphaba

You only get to use *one* hand with chop sticks?

Cynthetiq

the reason that I was told for the spoon going away from you as you dip it, is so that when you lift it, if there is a drip it will drip over the bowl and not your lap.

Culture Shock is a great book series that goes into local ettiquette and fitting in, my uncle wrote one of them, and I'm finally seeing them in the US.

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Randerolf

Even sandwiches. Again, it's a very interesting subject.

I misunderstood the soup dipping part. I thought you had to move it while drinking it!

Pip

It's not that strict with sandwiches and other finger foods. It depends on how it's presented, if it's on a platter and impossible to eat neatly with just your hands, you use knife and fork. In a restaurant it's always with knife and fork of course unless it's a cheap fast food place like McDonalds. The marmalade and cheese sammich you made yourself is eaten with your hand.
Sandwiches are pretty interesting, in most Swedish homes it's the norm to put the sandwich straight on the table, but in hotel breakfast buffets and at least in German homes you always put them on a platter.

JustJess

What about physical contact? I tend to touch elbows in conversation or hug hello if it's a friend, but I understand that it's different elsewhere.

I have heard that most Asian countries are pretty much non-touching sorts, but that South American countries are very huggy - kisses hello, hugs between friends (2 males as well, not so common here)... Does anyone actually know?

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JoseFlanders

Hrm.

la petite moi

Pip, I'm referring to eating everything with a knife and fork in France. I was looked at strangely for not eating a nectarine with a knife and fork. That's pretty hard.

Pizza, sandwiches (except when you're out on a picnic), and fruits are all eaten with fork and knife.

la petite moi

Oh, just thought of another thing that I bet a lot of you know-

In France, you kiss instead of hugging. You would figure that they'd be okay with hugging instead of kissing for friends- not so true. I tried hugging one of my friends I was staying with and because she didn't understand American culture, she backed up and looked at me like I was strange. I asked why, and all her friends and she chimed in that you only hug relatives and your significant others and my friend certainly assured me she was not "lesbienne"...herher.

Glava

In Arab countries, like Latin American countries, it is considered normal for two males who are friendly to kiss. A few months ago, President Bush kissed the Crown Prince of Saudi Arabia on the cheek, and it shocked a few of people.

Charlatan

Pizza yes, but I've never seen a sandwich eaten by knife and fork during the many times I've been to France...

Are you talking about a baguette sandwich or the ones that are made on thin slices of bread? I could see the latter being eaten this way but not the former.


As for Pizza... the Pizza in France is fairly different from what we eat here in North America. It is, generally speaking, thinner crust and wetter. Picking it up with your hands is just.... messy (especially when you put an egg on it as the French seem to do with everything).

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JustJess

I have a new fellow from Chile here now, and he greets me every time he sees me with a kiss on the cheek. He said he ran into a little trouble, because people didn't know what he was doing. I explained that Americans don't generally greet people that way, but I understood, and it was fine with me. (Besides, he's a real sweetie.)
Do you think it's like that elsewhere in S.A.?
Thanks for the info on Japan and Arab countries, that's so interesting.
I really can't imagine eating everything with a knife and fork - doesn't that make some things far more difficult???

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lindalove

If you don't want to get drunk in Japan, never empty your glass completely. Because it will be filled instantly by someone else. (I learned that the hard way).

There is a very strict etiquette about eating in Japan, concerning chopsticks use. The worse you can do is to give a piece of food to someone from a chopstick pair to another. That's really really bad, not just rude: when someone dies, the traditional ceremony is to burn the corpse, and the bones are taken with special sticks by someone close to the dead, and given to someone else sticks to put in a special box.

The worse cultural shock for me was people snorting loudly in public places, even the more elegant looking people. As a matter of fact, it is very disgusting to use a tissue in public and snorting is completely acceptable. It is exactly the opposite here.

Something that disturbed me a lot at work: people never say "no", it is impolite. They have to find other way to say they disagree with your point of view. I'm sure they saw me as a barbarian or something.

However, they say "Haï Haï" (yes yes) a lot. When your are talking to someone, he makes approval gestures with his head, and says Haï Haï all the time. So you think he is agreeing. Then he starts to make a big speach and you slowly start to understand he is disagreeing (remember, it is impolite to say no), and that the "Haï Haï" thing just the polite way to express he was carefully listening.

Also, in France, they have this stupid habit of always responding to a question, even if we have no clue about the correct answer at the beginning of our reponse. They start to speak to gain time, while thinking madly to what the hell the correct answer is. In Japan, if you don't wait a little bit before answering, it means that you find the question stupid, or shows your are not able to think. A French teacher in Japan I know was completely freaking out in classrooms before someone explained it to him.

Oh! This one is funny: in most western countries, it's ladies first. In Japan, it's men first. My boyfriend was very surprised by the uncomprehension look on the pregnant women face when he let her a sit in the subway. I've heard of head bumping between an executive westerner executive women and an executive japanese guy when they instinctively tried to get out of an elevator at the same time.

This one made me think a lot about myself: I'm not sure I believe in god, I don't like religions, I thought I was free of all this "original sin" stuff and that I was a liberated girl from a sexual point of view. I was so wrong! I realized I'm completely impregnated by my own culture, and that this culture comes from the three religions of the book, whether I accept it or not. You should have seen my face when we were looking for a place to sleep in a "love hotel" during a trip to Tokyo (there is no need for reservation in those hotels, you can rent a room for a couple of hours or one night, and it is dedicated to legitimate couples who want to have fun in a country where intimacy is difficult due to thin walls and small appartments). The love hotel hill in Tokyo is a very wired area, and young fashion people were calmly checking the options of the rooms (sexual gadgets, school girls uniforms, sauna, bubble bath, hello kitty theme, karaoke, porn channels, playstations...) while I was all blushing and embarassed.

la petite moi

Char, typically, the French don't eat sandwiches- except on picnics or when they are out on the street. If they eat sandwiches at home, yes, they use a fork and knife. Also, I never notice anyone put eggs on pizza... Haha.

goddfather40

I have little experience with foreign ettiquette and nuances. I am traveling on business to Hong Kong and mainland China in September so I think I need to really brush up on these things, especially considering I've never been outside the US or Mexico.

The experiences everyone is sharing are very intriquing.

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Yakk

Just a little thing: In a personal dwelling in the USA, you leave your shoes on by default.

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Last edited by JHVH : 10-29-4004 BC at 09:00 PM. Reason: Time for a rest.

little_tippler

"In Latin America and around the Mediterranean people eat dinner around 10 PM. Here in Jacksonville, the last big push for reservations is at around 8 PM."

I don't know what is meant by mediterranean countries eating generally at 10pm. I believe I'm in a pretty mediterranean country and here we eat dinner at 8 or latest 9 pm. Ok, lots of people eat earlier or later as it's not a big issue, things are relaxed here, but saying that the majority of people in mediterranean countries eat dinner at 10 pm is not correct I think.

It's funny how many European countries have all sorts of eating rules, in France and Spain I have had some of the experiences mentioned.

Others for example were:

Going to a restaurant in Spain and seeing something on their display unit (this at lunchtime) and saying "I'd like some of that please" and being told adamantly that I can't have that because "it's lunch time and we don't serve that at lunchtime". I mean, it's there, I see it, I want it, but no, I can't have it. That just made me laugh.

Or, arriving at a restaurant in Spain and sitting in an outdoor room and wanting to choose something from the indoor room's menu but not being allowed to (?! does that make sense to you??)

Or arriving at a restaurant in France at 1pm (regular lunchtime in my parts) and being told that "oh it's quite late, ok you can stay but only one course" (?!)

I love Portugal because in respect to this sort of useless rules, we are really relaxed. If it's on display for sale, you can have it. If you want something from another room but there's only a seat in the opposite room (but it's the same restaurant), they are always happy to oblige. And unless you arrive at 4pm then most establishments will serve you lunch!

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clavus

Bullshit!

This shoes-outside-the-house thing is not universal. In fact, most people I know do not have a shoes-outside policy. It is a small, but growing trend, and it pisses me off.

You come over to my AMerican house, I want you to be comfortable. Shoes on or shoes off. Whatever works for you. Maybe you have bad foot odor or your toes are cold. Keep the shoes on. Maybe your feet long to be free. Shoes off.

"oooo! but shoes are DIRTY!" you say. Well, I have a vacuum. Come on in. Make yourself at home.

Listen, people. I don't really advertise this, but my foot hurts unless I am walking on really cushy shoes. (Astute readers of this board will recall my footgina). So when I take my shoes off and walk around on your tile, vinyl, laminate, or thin-padded carpet, I am in pain. Polite, but in pain.

Plus, usually wear sandals and the bottoms of my feet are dirty anyway, So who are we fooling here?

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Charlatan

Thanks. That was a memory I was really trying to bury...


I actually like the idea of shoes off at the front door. We bought a bunch of cheap slippers on sale at IKEA (of all places) that we keep for guests. If I could have my way I would have a very austere home and keep the classical Japanese aesthetic...

Sadly, I live in a cluttered house that never seems to be even in the vicinity of austere...

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Cynthetiq

I ask people to please remove their shoes when they come into my house. A throwback for me from living in Singapore where it was customary for everyone to always remove shoes before coming into the house. In Iceland it's the same way and some parts of the NorthEast like to have a "mud room" for the boots.

Now when you come over... I will offer you some nice slippers, some of them are even brand spanking new.

Now this is just ONE of the reasons...

which make sme ask... you didn't happen to ghost write that did you?

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Yakk

Um, Clavus, I was commenting on how wierd it was that Americans usually keep their shoes on indoors. =-)

It is just a bit of culture-shock to me when I visit your fair country.

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Last edited by JHVH : 10-29-4004 BC at 09:00 PM. Reason: Time for a rest.

la petite moi

little_tippler: Typically French people eat lunch around 11a. They have several different "courses," if you will, and stay at the table to socialise (over coffee and chocolate) for a good two hours. To a French person, just eating quickly at a restaurant and leaving is a bit strange...so this guy was probably thinking, "She's coming at 1p, and she's going to leave at around 3p?"

mirevolver

When drinking beer in Germany, it's common to toast each round of beer before drinking with the word "prost." If you have straight beer glasses, clang the glasses at the bottom instead of the top, if you have a pilsner glass (which has a small stem at the bottom) clang them at the widest part of the glass. And if you are in Bavaria, you are expected to look the person in the eye as you say "prost" and clang the glasses, not looking the other person in the eye is considerded to bring seven years of bad sex down upon you.

Also in Germany. With a knife and fork, if you are right handed, the knife is in the right hand and the fork goes in the left hand and is held upside down for most of the time (you can flip it over to scoop up food). And never use a knife to cut potatoes, always use the fork.

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clavus

Too kind. No. If it isn't of TFP or mightywombat, I didn't write it.

I suppose I should contribute constructively to this thread.

In Belize, time is quoted specifically, but it should be interpreted generally, erring on the side of delay.

Huh?

If the Captain says that the boat is leaving at 3:30PM, he means that the boat is probably leaving late this afternoon or in the evening some time. If you act uptight about this, you look like an asshole. Everybody knows that 3:30 doesn't MEAN 3:30, silly American.

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