ARTelevision

I'm not one of those people who think "good parenting" is particularly predictive of good children. I know, however, many people believe this.

In that context, I think this is an interesting story.

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Eminem Teaches Daughter About Swearing
May 29, 2003
from teenmusic.com

Controversial rapper Eminem is comfortable using bad language in front of his daughter Hailie - because she's going to learn it anyway.

The bad boy Stan superstar is giving his seven-year-old an unconventional upbringing - since Hailie is bound to ask about all the dirty words in her dad's songs, he'd prefer that she learn about them from him first.

He says, "She's going to hear it in school regardless, do you know what I mean. I would rather be able to educate her at home.

"If she ever has a question or something about a song, I try to explain it in the best way that I can, how she's going to understand. She loves music, she loves hip-hop, and to me that's a good thing."
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Let's see...

Loving hip-hop is a good thing for a 7-year-old?
Teaching a 7-year-old to use profanity is better than not teaching a 7-year-old profanity?

After rasing two boys, I really don't have any idea what a "good parent" is.

Obviously, I'm not talking about abuse or neglect.
I know kids need to know you love them - that's a no brainer.

I'm just saying I have no idea what the "right" way to raise kids is.
Why? Because I think parents' influence is severely circumscribed by our culture. I think our culture "raises" our kids.

I'm sure many of you have your own view of all this.

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Halx

I can understand being open to your kids about sex and stuff in their teens, but profanity is a different matter. More on this later.

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viveleroi0

I don't believe eminem would be a good father... but I believe he has good intentions. I would never use bad language around my kids, but at a later age I would want them to understand why they are bad. I used to use words that I have learned the very hard way not to, and I dont think they should either.

I wont tell them this at age 7 though. Maybe 10.

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BulletBob

To me it sounds like the story is being taken out of context. It doesn't say he uses it in front of her constantly and I recall a Rolling Stone interview where he said he went out of his way to avoid swearing in front of his daughter. That same interview also said that he made edited versions of his CD's for her to listen to. To me the article sounds like sensationalism.

HamiC

I'm with BulletBob.....I suspect that the Eminem is explaining what they mean, but not necessarily allowing her to use them in everday conversation.

I think you have to be honest and straightforward with your kids. "This is what is out there.........here is what I believe........and this is how I expect you to conduct yourself."

Society will bombard your kids with so many things that you may not be comfortable with, but if you are not open and honest about those uncomfortable things, you will be leaving some very important lessons up to everyone else.

An honest and open relationship with your kids does not mean no rules, it just means no secrets. It is a damned tough line to walk.....

krwlz

Once again, ART, I would like to point out that the culture comes from us...Therefore, we are the same or at least similar to the culture...So, its ridiculous to blame things on culture...Instead take the blame if its your kid, and if its someone elses, blame them...After all if culture and person is the same...Then the blame still falls on the same person.

ARTelevision

Right, I don't see it as blame.

I see it as a quantitative measure of what factors are most influential. A creation of many can easily be more powerful than a creation of one or two.

I didn't say anything negative in this particular post, so I can't be "blaming" anything. I'm making a generalization about the relative power of a collective entity, such as culture, over and above the power of individuals.

The fact that we create culture doesn't mean our creation can't be more powerful than we who created it.

To say that we create something is not to say it is therefore no different than we ourselves are. There are many instances of creations getting out of control, being skewed one way or another, et cetera.

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Janie

I disagree. Just because culture comes from people, does not mean culture is the same as any given person. Oftentimes, culture takes on the characteristics that are most prevalent within the whole populace, but again that does not mean any person you meet will exhibit those same characteristics.

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guthmund

In the end profanity is just a category name we slap on a group of socially unacceptable words. They have no power; they're just words.

The problem with most children is we patronize them too much. There is a time and place to protect your children from the outside world until he/she is ready. You're lucky if profanity is the worst of your parental problems.

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Macheath

Just about every time I've heard reference to Eminem's daughter in the press, it's been in reference to what a levelheaded father he is for her.

krwlz

In the end ART and janie, yes, you are right, the culture doesnt have to equal the indiviadual. ART, I know you didn't place blame, it was more of a for instance, sorry about that.

What I am getting at though, is that if something is acceptable in the culture as a whole, chances are it is acceptable by many individuals as well. Therefore these individuals are the ones, I believe, that enfrain the "views of culture" in their kids....Does that make any more sense?

gov135

Amen. No way I could have said it better myself.

I think what Eminem was trying to get across - and he's no public speaker - was that kids can learn at home or learn out of the home.

Nothing surprises me more than parents who insist on sheltering their kids. Don't get me wrong, I have no kids, so maybe I just don't understand. But kids today have the television, other kids, the internet, etc. They are gonna discover things, be told about things, that maybe their parents would have liked to get first word on.

It's just important, in my uninformed opinion, to make sure your kids know they can bring anything to you. Nothing is forbidden, put it out on the table, I don't claim to have the answers, and lets talk about it.

I'm not electing Eminem parent of the year or anything. But he seems to show a genuine interest in his daughters development, which is more than we can say for alot of celebs.

Double D

Weighing in as a parent, I'll try to be as objective as I can here.

I have a son, age 20. Until he was age 8, I raised him as a single parent. At that time, his now step-father came into our lives.
Especially during his formative years, I was told again & again by teachers, coaches, & his friend's parents, what a *great kid* he was. And he was. He was so well-behaved, that I sometimes thought it would be more normal for him to act up a little.

By age 12, cracks began to appear in the veneer of his shining behavior. His grades, which had been honor role-worthy, began to slide, he dropped out of sports (which he'd always pursued without parental pressure) and became sullen and very withdrawn from the family.

Music became more important in his life- rap music. Before long, he seemed consumed by it, he dressed and talked like rappers while digesting the misogynistic, anti-almost-everything-except-personal-wealth, lyrics.

His life became a series of run in's with the law, minor stuff at first like curfew violation, a year or two later, shoplifting, drug arrests...he continued to spiral downward.

All the loving parenting, all the guidance & support, the *toughlove*- all of it - might as well have never happened because his life went to shit. We sought family counseling- he refused to participate, we put him in in-patient treatment facilities-same story. The grand finale was his stealing our car and getting in two hit & run accidents with it (he hadn't yet learned to drive/ secured a driver's license). This resulted in jail time, which he's now done a handful of times.

All the while, the constant force in his life was rap. I listened to what he was listening to, and it terrified me. The message was take (steal) what you want, women are bitches and 'hos, kill cops, and profanity is the only means of verbal communication. All these messages saturating his brain, had to influence his behavior.

So the influence of rap music-part of his culture- helped shape him into what he is. Most of what he learned at home, he seemed to discard.

One thing I'm not citing here is genetics, which I do believe influences behavior as well, and is probably a topic for another thread.

I have no idea what a good parent is, either. At least a good enough parent to guarantee having a good kid.

ARTelevision

Double D,
Yes, strong opinions about parenting seem to me to be either self-congratulatory or naive.

Self-congratulatory, as in someone's kids turned out OK and therefore they feel they were responsible for that fortunate occurance.

Naive, as in they never had kids.

Oh there's one more, people who turned out OK and attribute that to their parents. Let's see, what would I call that?
Hindsight is not the same as predicting anything.

Also, "studies" and statistics are vastly unusable where children are concerned. As a former educator. I can easily say that the overwhelming majority of what I was taught about children and how to teach them was absurd, irrelevant, ignorant, and inapplicable.

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TaLoN

that is exactly why eminem should educate his daughter, so that she knows that rap is just talk and not real life.

WhoaitsZ

raising my niece and nephews off and on i've always tried hard to not curse much around them.

when it happens, they giggle. i grin. every now and then they'll test me by saying something. i ignore it, it rarely happens again.

they don't curse in front of anyone else, though. they are learning both how to not get in trouble and how to show respect.

as for Eminem being a good dad? who are we to say? seeing a guy on tv or in a magazine isn't a great tool to use on judeging someone.

most likely he tries hard to not curse exceedingly. besides, the teachers of Hailey would probably have to call him every ten minutes when she's in school for cursing.

i'm no father of children and am glad I am not. I have a high respect for people who not only do a good job but try really hard, too. effort is important. and in this case, effort is actually effective: it will show later in life.

i hope he's a good dad. every kid needs one.

zf0enix

It's more difficult to explain the difference when daddy pistol-whips a guy outside a night club.

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