Sex, Drugs and Self-Esteem - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Supple Cow · 04-07-2005, 09:32 PM

I just saw this in SciAm (apparently from the January 2005 issue):

Exploding the Self-Esteem Myth

Here's just a section (it's too long to paste the whole thing here):

Quote:

Sex, Drugs, Rock 'n' Roll
How about teenagers? How does self-esteem, or the lack thereof, influence their love life, in particular their sexual activity? Investigators have examined this subject extensively. All in all, the results do not support the idea that low self-esteem predisposes young people to more or earlier sexual activity. If anything, those with high self-esteem are less inhibited, more willing to disregard risks and more prone to engage in sex. At the same time, bad sexual experiences and unwanted pregnancies appear to lower self-esteem.

If not sex, then how about alcohol or illicit drugs? Abuse of these substances is one of the most worrisome behaviors among young people, and many psychologists once believed that boosting self-esteem would prevent such problems. The thought was that people with low self-esteem turn to drinking or drugs for solace. The data, however, do not consistently show that low adolescent self-esteem causes or even correlates with the abuse of alcohol or other drugs. In particular, in a large-scale study in 2000, Rob McGee and Sheila M. Williams of the University of Otago Medical School in New Zealand found no correlation between self-esteem measured between ages nine and 13 and drinking or drug use at age 15. Even when findings do show links between alcohol use and self-esteem, they are mixed and inconclusive. A few studies have shown that high self-esteem is associated with frequent alcohol consumption, but another suggests the opposite. We did find, however, some evidence that low self-esteem contributes to illicit drug use. In particular, Judy A. Andrews and Susan C. Duncan of the Oregon Research Institute found in 1997 that declining levels of academic motivation (the main focus of their study) caused self-esteem to drop, which in turn led to marijuana use, although the connection was rather weak.

Interpretation of the findings on drinking and drug abuse is probably complicated by the fact that some people approach the experience out of curiosity or thrill seeking, whereas others may use it to cope with or escape from chronic unhappiness. The overall result is that no categorical statements can be made. The same is true for tobacco use, where our study-by-study review uncovered a preponderance of results that show no influence. The few positive findings we unearthed could conceivably reflect nothing more than self-report bias.

Another complication that also clouds these studies is that the category of people with high self-esteem contains individuals whose self-opinions differ in important ways. Yet in most analyses, people with a healthy sense of self-respect are, for example, lumped with those feigning higher self-esteem than they really feel or who are narcissistic. Not surprisingly, the results of such investigations may produce weak or contradictory findings.

.......................

Apparently, in the late 80s, California Governor Deukmejian set up a task for on self-esteem and personal and social responsibility. (I guess I was too young to remember this.) Anyway, it seems like most of it was a crock (regarding pregnancies and tobacco or alcohol use), but one of the studies is reported to show causation in the case of marijuana use. Personally, I think the jury is still out on that one in terms of using the study as evidence for more task forces and such. IMHO, if the 80s task force had spend more time encouraging social responsibility than high self-esteem, the studies might have turned out differently.

What I want to know is how TFPers remember their self-esteem in childhood/adolescence and how it has changed since then.

.......................
Supple Cow's two cents:

My own experience in high school is a testament to the ineffectiveness of promoting the concept of self-esteem on its own. It was no different from any other random media message I received as a kid. Drink Pepsi and be popular. Wear Maybelline and look pretty. Have confidence and people will like you. High self-esteem = Success. I didn't drink, smoke, do drugs or have sex (for the most part) in high school and I had (what I would call today) high self-esteem. At the time, though, I felt pretty bad most of the time. Most of my peers started experimenting with all of that stuff right around then and I wasn't popular because I didn't do it with them. So if some scientist doing this study had come up to me and asked me if I had high self-esteem, I would have said "No." I sure couldn't tell the difference between feeling judged by others and judged by myself at that point in my life. The findings in the SciAm article are not surprising to me at all.

Starlight4 · 04-07-2005, 09:46 PM

I feel like I "went backwards". While most people would say that their self-esteem grew since the time of adolescence, I'd have to say that I felt a lot better about myself in high school. Fortunately, I was one of the better liked kids in school, so I never felt pressured into "doing something to look cool." I did things if I wanted to.

I experimented with drugs and underground parties and smoking, but I didn't experiment with sex and alcohol until later. But I think the bottom line is, self-esteem really is all about yourself... I mean, how come some kids are cool if they choose NOT to smoke, while some other kids in the same school or w/e are cool if the choose to smoke??

What I've learned or am trying to learn is that I need to not rely on others to make me feel good about myself... (I know, I sound like an afterschool special on PBS)

guthmund · 04-07-2005, 10:15 PM

I'm not surprised at the findings either.

I was a late bloomer as well. I was the good kid growing up. While the other kids were drinking, smoking and experimenting with drugs and sex, I was on the student council and studying. I didn't fit into any one particular group and everybody seemed to like me despite the fact I didn't join in, so, I guess I had it better than most.

Back then, I had low self esteem, but I think it more me judging myself than others passing judgment. I tried so hard to get everyone to like me. For the most part I think they did, but I felt pretty bad nearly all the time.

Today, I just don't really give a shit what the general public thinks of me. Somewhere along the way I just stopped trying so hard. I mean, I won't go out of my way to instigate or be indifferent for the sake of being indifferent, but I won't chase someone around desperately trying to get someone to like me, which is decidedly different than my high school days.

Supple Cow · 04-08-2005, 06:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Starlight4

I feel like I "went backwards". While most people would say that their self-esteem grew since the time of adolescence, I'd have to say that I felt a lot better about myself in high school. Fortunately, I was one of the better liked kids in school, so I never felt pressured into "doing something to look cool." I did things if I wanted to.

I experimented with drugs and underground parties and smoking, but I didn't experiment with sex and alcohol until later. But I think the bottom line is, self-esteem really is all about yourself... I mean, how come some kids are cool if they choose NOT to smoke, while some other kids in the same school or w/e are cool if the choose to smoke??

What I've learned or am trying to learn is that I need to not rely on others to make me feel good about myself... (I know, I sound like an afterschool special on PBS)

That's just it - as much we ultimately control our level of self-esteem, I think that outside sources factor in as well. Our peers, school, our families, the media... and the peer factor is the most arbitrary and often the most intense when you're in high school. I chose not to smoke and my peers chose to designate non-smokers as "uncool." No amount of self-esteem building exercises in health class could make those "cool" kids give up "cool" for their health or make me feel like any more people liked me.

MooseMan3000 · 04-08-2005, 07:01 AM

After about 4th grade, when I realized all the cool kids were stupid, I stopped caring about being cool. I don't smoke or drink for various reasons, including the fact that I've had many relatives be both addicted to and die from both.

Since about the same time I stopped wanting to be cool, I haven't really had many self esteem issues. I experimented with sex about the same time most people did, not early or late.

I might be totally off here, but I noticed more of a corellation between intelligence and not experimenting. The smart kids (for the most part) didn't do drugs, nor did they have sex. Some of them had low self esteem (my fellow mathletes), while others had higher self esteem (my actor friends), but most were just in the middle. The smart kids just didn't do it, and the dumb ones did. Simple.

As to the article, I have a problem with the fact that it compared "high" self-esteem to "low" self-esteem. What about "normal" levels of self-esteem? Generally, having an image of yourself that's inflated is also regarded as unhealthy... it's one of the main factors in narcissism and manic depression. The article would have you believe that high self esteem is the norm to which low self esteem is compared, but I disagree.

Suave · 04-08-2005, 07:58 AM

My self-esteem was pretty crap during my pubescent years. Sometimes it was alright, but a combination of acne, braces, and growing so fast that I felt akward led to general self-esteem death. At least I had contacts intsead of glasses though.

04-08-2005, 09:31 AM

How do you define self esteem is an important factor. Is it self respect? dignity? pride? It's hard to define it with clarity. Some simply refer to it as a perception of oneself, which is differcult then to say what is high and what is low.

Have I felt bad? Felt low and little? As I child growing up I certainly did at time and other times felt joyess and happy.

Although I have used pot and drunk excessively on a few occasions, I did so because I thought I could find pleasure in the occasion. Since then I have moved past that stage and now drink very little, I have no intention of getting drunk agian. I don't see the need for narcotics and pass on them when offered. Why did I experiment when I was younger? To simply experience it. I found that I don't particularly enjoy it and decided not to continue with it.

It is hard to say how my self esteem is now, since I really don't know. I feel good, I feel like I can accomplish what I have choosen to do. I feel like I can overcome what challenges face me. I still get anxious, I still get angry unneccisarly, I make mistakes and things don't always work out. I just think self assesment in the quantitative form is an insecure method of meauring youself. Much better to put your back to a wall and use a tapemessure.

streak_56 · 04-08-2005, 09:41 AM

I've changed alot since High School, and I had very very low self-esteem and I have never used drugs in my life. It wasn't until I moved back to Canada that I actaully saw weed. Other than that... nothing really has changed I've come out of my shell more.

04-07-2005, 10:15 PM	#3 (permalink)
guthmund big damn hero	I'm not surprised at the findings either. I was a late bloomer as well. I was the good kid growing up. While the other kids were drinking, smoking and experimenting with drugs and sex, I was on the student council and studying. I didn't fit into any one particular group and everybody seemed to like me despite the fact I didn't join in, so, I guess I had it better than most. Back then, I had low self esteem, but I think it more me judging myself than others passing judgment. I tried so hard to get everyone to like me. For the most part I think they did, but I felt pretty bad nearly all the time. Today, I just don't really give a shit what the general public thinks of me. Somewhere along the way I just stopped trying so hard. I mean, I won't go out of my way to instigate or be indifferent for the sake of being indifferent, but I won't chase someone around desperately trying to get someone to like me, which is decidedly different than my high school days. __________________ No signature. None. Seriously.

04-08-2005, 07:58 AM	#6 (permalink)
Suave Twitterpated Location: My own little world (also Canada)	My self-esteem was pretty crap during my pubescent years. Sometimes it was alright, but a combination of acne, braces, and growing so fast that I felt akward led to general self-esteem death. At least I had contacts intsead of glasses though. __________________ "Few people are capable of expressing with equanimity opinions which differ from the prejudices of their social environment. Most people are even incapable of forming such opinions." - Albert Einstein "Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something." - Plato

04-07-2005, 09:46 PM	#2 (permalink)
Starlight4 Upright Location: NY, NY	I feel like I "went backwards". While most people would say that their self-esteem grew since the time of adolescence, I'd have to say that I felt a lot better about myself in high school. Fortunately, I was one of the better liked kids in school, so I never felt pressured into "doing something to look cool." I did things if I wanted to. I experimented with drugs and underground parties and smoking, but I didn't experiment with sex and alcohol until later. But I think the bottom line is, self-esteem really is all about yourself... I mean, how come some kids are cool if they choose NOT to smoke, while some other kids in the same school or w/e are cool if the choose to smoke?? What I've learned or am trying to learn is that I need to not rely on others to make me feel good about myself... (I know, I sound like an afterschool special on PBS)

04-08-2005, 07:01 AM	#5 (permalink)
MooseMan3000 wouldn't mind being a ninja. Location: Maine, the Other White State.	After about 4th grade, when I realized all the cool kids were stupid, I stopped caring about being cool. I don't smoke or drink for various reasons, including the fact that I've had many relatives be both addicted to and die from both. Since about the same time I stopped wanting to be cool, I haven't really had many self esteem issues. I experimented with sex about the same time most people did, not early or late. I might be totally off here, but I noticed more of a corellation between intelligence and not experimenting. The smart kids (for the most part) didn't do drugs, nor did they have sex. Some of them had low self esteem (my fellow mathletes), while others had higher self esteem (my actor friends), but most were just in the middle. The smart kids just didn't do it, and the dumb ones did. Simple. As to the article, I have a problem with the fact that it compared "high" self-esteem to "low" self-esteem. What about "normal" levels of self-esteem? Generally, having an image of yourself that's inflated is also regarded as unhealthy... it's one of the main factors in narcissism and manic depression. The article would have you believe that high self esteem is the norm to which low self esteem is compared, but I disagree.

04-08-2005, 09:31 AM	#7 (permalink)
NotMVH Guest	How do you define self esteem is an important factor. Is it self respect? dignity? pride? It's hard to define it with clarity. Some simply refer to it as a perception of oneself, which is differcult then to say what is high and what is low. Have I felt bad? Felt low and little? As I child growing up I certainly did at time and other times felt joyess and happy. Although I have used pot and drunk excessively on a few occasions, I did so because I thought I could find pleasure in the occasion. Since then I have moved past that stage and now drink very little, I have no intention of getting drunk agian. I don't see the need for narcotics and pass on them when offered. Why did I experiment when I was younger? To simply experience it. I found that I don't particularly enjoy it and decided not to continue with it. It is hard to say how my self esteem is now, since I really don't know. I feel good, I feel like I can accomplish what I have choosen to do. I feel like I can overcome what challenges face me. I still get anxious, I still get angry unneccisarly, I make mistakes and things don't always work out. I just think self assesment in the quantitative form is an insecure method of meauring youself. Much better to put your back to a wall and use a tapemessure.

04-08-2005, 09:41 AM	#8 (permalink)
streak_56 who ever said streaking was a bad thing? Location: Calgary	I've changed alot since High School, and I had very very low self-esteem and I have never used drugs in my life. It wasn't until I moved back to Canada that I actaully saw weed. Other than that... nothing really has changed I've come out of my shell more.