04-06-2005, 04:55 AM | #1 (permalink) |
Junkie
Moderator Emeritus
Location: Chicago
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New Passport Rules
To get back to the U.S., pack a passport
BY ALFONSO CHARDY AND INA PAIVA CORDLE By year's end, the U.S. government will require Americans returning by air or sea from the Caribbean and Central and South America to carry U.S. passports -- a major change in travel procedures for citizens who for decades have been readmitted by merely flashing a driver's license or a birth certificate. It's the first in a series of phased-in security initiatives announced Tuesday. In South Florida, with its multitude of southbound flights and cruises, the measure is expected to have a big impact. The region is a jumping-off point to resorts such as Cancun and Jamaica and other Caribbean islands where Americans are accustomed to simply hopping on a plane without a passport. Many of these countries only require a birth certificate from American visitors as proof of citizenship. The latest tightening of immigration controls, set to start Dec. 31, came about partly as a result of an embarrassing episode in which congressional investigators sneaked into the country using fake licenses and certificates. Those incidents included at least one at Miami International Airport. Announced Tuesday, the measure is the first post-9/11 travel restriction aimed at United States citizens as opposed to foreigners. U.S. authorities already have intensified controls for foreign visitors, most of whom must be photographed and fingerprinted on arrival. PENALTIES UNCLEAR Authorities didn't say what penalties, if any, U.S. citizens without passports may encounter -- but travelers can expect to be pulled from checkpoint lines and endure exhaustive questioning by immigration authorities to determine their identities. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, speaking about the travel measures in an Associated Press interview, said the United States had to take every precaution to screen out ``people who want to come in to hurt us.'' Rice said the change was made after consultation with Mexico, Canada and other governments in the Western Hemisphere. It follows a March summit of President Bush, President Vicente Fox of Mexico and Prime Minister Paul Martin of Canada. In the second phase, starting Dec. 31, 2006, travelers arriving from Canada and Mexico by air or sea also will be required to present passports. On Dec. 31, 2007, the rule will apply to air, sea and land entries from all foreign points. Airline reservations agents will have to notify passengers about the passport requirement when they book trips, while airport ticket agents will verify that travelers have the documents. Travel industry reaction was mixed. ''Anything that enhances the security of the country and enhances the safety and security of our passengers and crew, we're in favor of,'' said American Airlines spokesman Tim Wagner. Cruise passengers departing from South Florida will also feel the impact. ''While we are in full support of measures designed to increase security, we have some serious concerns about the timeline,'' said Miami-based Carnival Cruise Lines spokeswoman Jennifer de la Cruz. Jorge Lomonaco, the Mexican consul in Miami, agreed that the measure may affect travel to popular Caribbean tourist destinations where tens of thousands of American travelers fly every year from South Florida. But he also said he does not believe U.S. travelers with longstanding plans to visit Caribbean beach resorts will cancel trips just because they don't have a U.S. passport. ''The majority of our competitors in the so-called sun-and-sand tourism are in the same condition,'' Lomonaco said. ``We allow U.S. travelers to enter with their birth certificates. A passport is not a requirement. So the implementation of this new measure will probably have a similar effect on all the destinations.'' Perhaps the biggest impact won't be felt until the end of 2006, when Canadians and legal Mexican border visitors will be required to show passports when entering the United States. WIDE-REACHING The Greater Fort Lauderdale Convention & Visitors Bureau, for example, says that hundreds of thousands of Canadian visitors who frequently travel to or live in South Florida will be affected. The bureau said Canadians make up the largest contingent of foreign travelers to Broward, with about 610,000 visiting in 2004. Canadian authorities have warned Canadian travelers to the United States since the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks that it is preferable to carry a Canadian passport when visiting the United States due to increased border scrutiny. ''While U.S. authorities currently do not have a legal requirement that Canadians carry a passport, Foreign Affairs Canada strongly urges all Canadians traveling to the United States to obtain and carry a Canadian passport before leaving Canada,'' says a website of the Canadian Consular Affairs Bureau, www.voyage.gc.ca/ consular_home-en.esp. In January 2003, the Government Accountability Office revealed that investigators carrying fake birth certificates and driver's licenses had entered the United States at Miami International Airport and land border crossings simply by showing the documents or claiming to be citizens. An official familiar with the probe said one incident involved two GAO investigators who arrived at MIA from Jamaica. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Good idea? Bad idea? Do you have a passport? Would you plan on getting one because of these new regulations being put into place? What kind of effect will this have on the tourism industry in the carribbean?
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04-06-2005, 05:06 AM | #3 (permalink) |
Drifting
Administrator
Location: Windy City
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I already have a passport, but I'm envisioning a huge mess as everyone rushes to get their passports. When I got mine, I submitted my application in February, and recieved it less than a month later because it wasn't during the busier summer season. However, they warn of a much longer delay from April to August. If they truly stick to this law, there are some people who are going to be at the mercy of the processing centers, unless the US government is going to increase funding at those points to hire people to allow more passports to be created in a timely manner.
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04-06-2005, 05:07 AM | #4 (permalink) |
Illusionary
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I got passports for my family and myself early this year.....though not for this reason.
I can see the need for increased security in the collective mind of America, and have no problem with this move. Although I am not one who thinks we are in any more danger, relatively speaking, than we were before 9/11.
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04-06-2005, 05:07 AM | #5 (permalink) |
Junkie
Moderator Emeritus
Location: Chicago
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When I got my passport renewed a few years back, there is an 'expedited fee' that they tackon if you you need your passport within a month... I'm sure that fee will rise sharply -- because they can...
I actually prefer using my passport for travel because I like having the stamps, it's a cool reminder of where I've been
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Free your heart from hatred. Free your mind from worries. Live simply. Give more. Expect less.
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04-06-2005, 05:11 AM | #6 (permalink) |
Registered User
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Add this to the growing fear and paranoia of americans. I agree with tec in the fact that we are not in any more (or less) danger than before 9/11. I understand the need to make sure another one doesn't happen, but this is going to cause a huge backup in the system. Let's hope that they've already planned for it and are adjusting before they implement this.
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04-06-2005, 05:13 AM | #7 (permalink) |
Drifting
Administrator
Location: Windy City
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I'm like you Mal - I rather take my passport when I travel, especially in places with a lot of international flights or security check points.
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Calling from deep in the heart, from where the eyes can't see and the ears can't hear, from where the mountain trails end and only love can go... ~~~ Three Rivers Hare Krishna |
04-06-2005, 05:22 AM | #8 (permalink) |
I read your emails.
Location: earth
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think of the extra cost to say a family going from toronto to florida for some fun and sun in the winter months. I think a passport is 75 bucks so a family of 4 gets burned an extra 300$ bones. I think it makes sense to make people have the documents, but the cost is an issue. I use to live in a border town and we use to make the trip over every week to go shopping and eat, most people don't have a passport, I wonder how much of commerce decline at the windsor/detroit and so on crossings.
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04-06-2005, 05:28 AM | #9 (permalink) |
Devoted
Donor
Location: New England
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I always thought that it was weird that you didn't need a passport to cross the Canadian border. I also think it is strange that I don't need to dial a country code to call there from the US.
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04-06-2005, 05:30 AM | #10 (permalink) |
©
Location: Colorado
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No big deal. I've gone to Canada with a passport and without. Clearing customs with a passport takes less than 1/2 of the time. These days, I always take my passport.
I just renewed my passport, it took 3 weeks by mail (not expedited) and it's good for 10 years. It was harder to renew my driver's license. |
04-06-2005, 05:31 AM | #11 (permalink) | |
Getting it.
Super Moderator
Location: Lion City
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Quote:
This is going to be a big problem for border towns. No more casual trips across the boarder for a meal, cheap gas, etc. People will have to carry their passports with them whenever they go out, just in case. I'm not saying I disagree with these measures it's just that they seem a bit harsh. Tourism in Canada is going to pay the price for this...
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04-06-2005, 05:39 AM | #12 (permalink) | |
Junkie
Location: Tobacco Road
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So the bottom line with this is that you can drive an 18 wheeler into the country from Mexico with God knows what in it and say it's for commerce, easier than you can come back from a 5 night night cruise on Carnival.
Sad.
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04-06-2005, 07:11 AM | #13 (permalink) | |
Comedian
Location: Use the search button
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Quote:
Wait, we've already done that with politically charged goods. I am going to go eat a piece of Alberta Beef and pick my teeth with a Softwood Lumber toothpick. The only thing keeping me sane is the quiet confidence that when our dollar is on par with the Greenback, I am going to Vegas. Now I'll have to carry a passport. I think the benefits outweigh the costs on that one. Peace, my friends to the south. I love you just the way you are.
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04-06-2005, 09:08 AM | #14 (permalink) | |
Kick Ass Kunoichi
Location: Oregon
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Quote:
We get tons of Canadians down here when our dollar is weak for the shopping and whatnot. Heck, when I was a kid growing up near the border they built a mall in one of the towns because of the sheer number of Canadians coming south to spend money. Even when our dollar was stronger they kept coming down for tourism and traveling, though I must admit you see a lot more Canadians now around the PacNW than you did five years ago. As our dollar keeps getting weaker it's going to be harder for economies in the PacNW to make money if Canadians are restricted from going across the border by requiring a passport. While I understand the issues in the name of "security" I've never felt unsafe at a border crossing or felt like the officer just breezed us through. I wonder how this is going to affect NEXUS (the program for frequent crossers). I would bet the number of people joining NEXUS will increase if the program doesn't change.
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04-06-2005, 10:08 AM | #16 (permalink) |
Junkie
Location: Toronto
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we got our passports within 6 weeks of application. The entir application process took 2 hrs. So it was relatively painless.
We even used them last summer to go to Seattle. The time throught he customs gate was painless, whereas I had to go pee twice while waiting in the line up to get there (that is the White Rock/Blaine border crossing). * Note: you may be able to dial out without a country code, by my debit card did not work at the Bellingham Mcdonalds... |
04-06-2005, 10:32 AM | #17 (permalink) |
Tilted
Location: Pennsylvania
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Hm, I don't really see this as a big deal; a good idea possibly as well. I showed my passport coming back into the states coming back from Jamaica, although some people in line just had other paperwork, the clerk looked at my stuff and pretty much passed me through while other people took longer.
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04-06-2005, 10:35 AM | #18 (permalink) |
Riding the Ocean Spray
Location: S.E. PA in U Sofa
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I'm for the passports too.
If you're lucky and have to travel out of the U.S. for business, at least you're company will pay for it, then deduct the cost as a business operating expense and pay less taxes, and actual paying taxpayers end up paying indirectly as usual. |
04-06-2005, 11:28 AM | #19 (permalink) | |
Beware the Mad Irish
Location: Wish I was on the N17...
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I have a house in the Virgin Islands and last year alone I was there on four occasions. It's always been easier to get back into the US (mainland) with a passport and I too like the stamps as a keepsake for the places I've been.
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04-06-2005, 11:59 AM | #20 (permalink) |
Getting it.
Super Moderator
Location: Lion City
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I use my passport for everything... just better that way. But then, I do a lot of international travel.
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"My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars." - Old Man Luedecke |
04-06-2005, 12:05 PM | #21 (permalink) |
Tilted Cat Head
Administrator
Location: Manhattan, NY
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I've got no issues with passports for just going to Tiajuana etc. Some of the other "benefits" will be that those young 18 year olds will no longer be able to cross into Mexico for a night of drinking.
The borders are supposed to be overseen by the federal government. While it's probably just as easy to fake a passport as it is to do a driver's license, at least the boarder guys don't have to be versed in 50 different state issued IDs.
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04-06-2005, 12:08 PM | #22 (permalink) |
AHH! Custom Title!!
Location: The twisted warpings of my brain.
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Another concern that I have is that in a lot of states current legislation allows for illegal immigrants to obtain valid drivers licenses, thus negating them as a means of verification for border crossing, granted I'm sure it's tertiary to this set of regulations, but it does patch a hole that would otherwise allow people who have no business entering the country freely from crossing the border as readily.
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04-06-2005, 04:13 PM | #23 (permalink) |
Junkie
Location: Right here
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hmm, the only experience I had with coming home from canada was the guy looking at our oregon plates and waving me through.
he stopped me long enough to lean toward the window and say: jees, it's nice to finally see a fellow american today! you need our passports? naw, been dealing with fucking idiots all day long. have a good trip back home. that was our conversation. iirc, he didn't even look at our DL's. I wasn't particularly proud of it, but didn't really care either. There was a lot of commotion going on: 1) lot of asian protests were going on right on the border. sorry, don't know what they were, although I hate to lump all "asian" together like that 2) this was a few hours after the reports that bush wasn't apologizing for the friendly fire incident in afghanistan. wife and I were sitting in a pub and the tele was broadcasting some opinions on the matter. patrons seemed to be getting a bit agitated from their comments. so we quietly laid some toonies on the table for our beers and got the hell out of there. 3) and this was also on the same day that vancouver has this huge foot race. I don't remember what it was, but the city's main streets basically shut down from what it looked like. who knows? but in any case security wasn't too big a deal back then. and getting in wasn't either.
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04-08-2005, 01:28 AM | #24 (permalink) |
Crazy
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I don't think any of those "who want to hurt us", the terrorists who have already done what they were going to do, got into the U.S. without a passport to begin with. A valid passport? Probably not. But a passport nonetheless.
Is this just more smoke and mirrors to make us feel safer while accomplishing nothing? I'll let my paranoid, conspiracy theory loving self speak whe I say, "Papers please. May I see your papers please?"
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People Are Stupid. People can be made to believe any lie, either because they want it to be true or because they fear that it is. |
04-08-2005, 01:39 PM | #25 (permalink) |
Registered User
Location: Deep South Texas
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Well, I live 5 miles north of the Mexico border...that means I have to get a passport and take it with me to walk over the bridge in
Nuevo Progresso and get a bottle of scotch, and come back..... The border patrol does not have the staff to handle the no-passport load.. There are about 225,000 winter texans that go into Mexico each year...many from Canada.....they better have alot of room to put these people up for the night, because damn few have a pasport.. This should put the border ecomomy right on it's knees. ...and what do they do when they catch a OTM (other than Mexican) on our side of the border???give them a notice to appear and turn them loose...you can guess how many show up for their hearing....it's hard for them when they are already in Huston or Detriot... Hurray for the Minute men.. |
04-08-2005, 02:49 PM | #26 (permalink) |
...is a comical chap
Location: Where morons reign supreme
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I already have a passport, so it's not a big deal to me. However, I remember that it took awhile to get it, and I expect the wait time will probably go up. When hubby and I traveled to Mexico, I just showed my passport but he had to show his birth certificate and DL...easier for me to just have one document.
I do think that this is paranoia on the governments part....if someone *really* wants to get a passport so they can "get in and hurt us"...it's guaranteed that they will.
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04-08-2005, 04:35 PM | #27 (permalink) |
Deja Moo
Location: Olympic Peninsula, WA
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My husband and I have traveled to Mexico and the Caribbean with my sister and her husband. They had passports and generally breezed through customs, whereas our birth certificates usually caused a delay and some arbitrary form needed to be chased down. We will have passports for any future travel.
I recognize that a determined bad guy will get across the border, but I believe we can at least make it a little more difficult. The situation now is far too lax. I am also in favor of the proposed passport "chip" which may make it more difficult to create fraudulent documents. |
04-08-2005, 04:48 PM | #28 (permalink) |
Alien Anthropologist
Location: Between Boredom and Nirvana
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Why did America wait so long after 9/11? Duh?!! I always keep a current passaort because I'm a memeber of the global community, not just the U.S.A.
Though I must say, that I wish I could be one of the members of diplomatic immunity!!! (A whole other can of worms...)
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04-13-2005, 02:40 PM | #30 (permalink) |
Tired
Location: Beverly Hills
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I've never had a passport but this seems like a good idea to me. I think this would allow countries to keep better tabs on who is coming and going.
As far as it affecting border commerce, that's just the price you pay for chasing after a bargain on the other side of a border. |
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