Save Schapelle Corby
 

i hope it is ok to put petitions here, i am not trying to sell ipods or advertise any consumer products :eek:

EDITED by Cynthetiq: removed URL

Hi Everyone,

This is something that could so easily happen to any one of us so unwittingly so please join the petition,

Thanks

Please take a moment to read and sign the following petition to help save Australian citizen Schapelle Corby from death by firing squad in Indonesia.

Schapelle Corby has been detained in a Balinese prison and now awaits sentencing from a panel of judges on whether she will be committed to the death penalty, by a firing squad, for allegedly attempting to import four kilograms of cannabis into Indonesia. It is disgusting and barbaric in this day and age that a 'death penalty by firing squad' law exists, and that an Australian citizen should be subject to it. This law is out-dated and inhumane, and considering that convicted terrorist Abu Bakar Bashir has only been sentenced to two years and six months jail (with the prospect of appeal) for his proven 'conspiracy' participation in the Bali bombings that killed 183 people, in the same country, it is inconsistent and absurd that another person should face the death penalty for allegedly smuggling cannabis into the country.


Furthermore, the Australian Government and airlines should be taking more responsibility for this incident in any case, since it is the fault of the Australian airlines/airport that the drugs even left Australia in the first place - which also leaves us to ponder on the security and possible internal corruption of staff working at Australian airports, in light of drug smuggling and terrorism. We the undersigned demand that the Australian Government, and Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade, act responsibily to ensure that, innocent or guilty, Schapelle Corby is returned to Australia and that she does NOT face the 'death penalty by firing Squad' in Indonesia.

Thankyou for your assistance in attempting to save Schapelle Corby.

I could not, in all good faith sign such a thing. Has she actually been found guilty? If she has, then there is the penalty to pay. Whether the law is a stupid one or not is not under question from me.

But the laws of many countries are harsh on drug smugglers. The "somebody else put it in my bag" defence might also be useful if she had any evidence apart from hearsay from a guy in gaol.

I think it would be patently stupid to take high grade marijuana into Bali, given the street value in Australia and the obviously serious penalty for being caught, but we can't rule out the possibility that she is in fact not very bright.

Also, we have a habit of always thinking the best of the people from their own country - it is not always so.

Not that I honestly think a petition would do any good at all, I am also of the I can't sign it.

To use the argument that the Australian government is responsible is just ridiculous. How many times do people bitch that they don't want the govermnent protecting them from themselves. This woman made a choice. She carried in a heck of a lot of cannibis into a country where the punishment is known. Did she think those laws did not apply to her? That going thru customs her bag wouldn't be checked?

It's a shame that she was so stupid.

I have trouble believing this "unknowingly carried drugs" story, as well. I'm probably echoing a lot of what spindles is saying, but, while it would be stupid to smuggle some in.. it's just too convenient that this rapist came foward and said "oh yeah, I heard some guys talking while I was in gaol....".

For those who haven't heard of this (probably everyone outside of Aus ;), here's. a google news link to her name. Stories galore for you to read ;)


A quick rundown is: she got caught with 4.1kgs of marijuana in her body (boogie) board bag entering Bali, Indonesia (a popular holiday location). For a while (many months) no one said anything about it while she sat in jail. Recently a rapist (or alleged rapist?) came forward saying he heard some people joking about it while he was in jail (gaol). He claims if he named the people who made the jokes, they'd kill both Corby and him.

In the early 90s, there was an American teenager, Michael Fay, dumbass that he was, got caught vandalizing cars (Spraypainting I beleive) He got caught, and his punishment was six lashes with a cane (supposedly anything over 4 can send aperson into shock or worse)

There was such a furor over this - -that how could such a "non-violent" crime elicit such a serious punishment. Our government stepped in and the punishment I believe was reduced to 4 lashes. The kid should have gotten more.

Don't do the crime, if you can't do the time... expecting your government to bail you out when you screw up, is just wrong.

I have no problem with her getting punished - jailtime, caning, fine. But to *kill* someone over a few kilos of pot??? I know it's not my country, not my culture, but I have a hard time believing that's okay no matter what. I don't have a big problem with capital punishment, but I do when it's used for shite like this, especially if they don't sentence actual murderers (like terrorists) to death.

Then you will remember that the next time you go to Bali... :D

It's not our country - -not our laws... You obey the laws of the country you are in, or accept the punishment

I have to agree with mal here. Just like when those visiting our country are subject to our laws and punnishments we are subject to those of other countries. As Americans we honestly do ask for a lot more than we give. How often have we been in a rush or supported deportation and imprisonment of a foreigner over a "petty crime"? Unfortunately she commited a crime and I highly doubt she unknowingly carried in or mailed in a few kilos of pot considering the fact that 4 kilos of pot is roughly 9 pounds. 9 pounds isnt a LOT but for a postal package its not small either.

"Furthermore, the Australian Government and airlines should be taking more responsibility for this incident in any case, since it is the fault of the Australian airlines/airport that the drugs even left Australia in the first place - which also leaves us to ponder on the security and possible internal corruption of staff working at Australian airports, in light of drug smuggling and terrorism. We the undersigned demand that the Australian Government, and Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade, act responsibily to ensure that, innocent or guilty, Schapelle Corby is returned to Australia and that she does NOT face the 'death penalty by firing Squad' in Indonesia. " I have a problem with this...

Who cares how they got out of the country to begin with, she did what she wanted to do.. sneak the drugs past Aussie security and get them to Indonesia. Just like in the US bombs get past the TSA security all the time. How did the guy with the bomb in his shoe get past "all the security we have"? How did 2 young adults board a plane with nail clippers? How have I seen people board planes with innocent pocket knives that are now contraband? Shit happens and thats that. You left the country with hopes of bringing illegal narcotics into another and shes asking for mercy? I honestly feel no pity on her as she commited crimes in 2 countries and while death by firing squad is extreme, if thats what the government sees fit, thats what they see fit. It is their country and she did enter it on her own free will.

By the by, i am not suggesting she should get a free ticket, if found guilty, but this crime is not worthy of the death penelty (nor any crime is really but that's my opinion on another topic) - even if it's not our country or laws, i still hope there'd be some kind of humanity involved, which maybe Australia could help intervene with to make the penelty not so drastic or help change all together so nothing like this happens again, to anyone.

Also she has not been found guilty, she is still innocent.

I'm all for humanity.. however... if this was a balinese citizen about to be convicted of the same crime, would the penalty be the same? Probably yes. Would it get the media attention that this case has gotten? Probably not, because it doesn't involve an Australian citizen, and more than likely many folks would not give it a second thought.

I think it's still worth signing the petition, just to stop this gruesome and clearly undeserved (i mean it's just cannabis) death penalty.

edit: I really hope all you guys saying you won't sign the petition actually read the articles in the link provided...seriously, it doesn't sound like she did it.

Surely someone here has seen Midnight Express. A man named Billy Hayes went through this sort if thing back in the 70s.

In any case I'd be willing to sign, not because I feel sorry for her, but because I don't think she deserves to die. I'm sure she could be retrieved if the Aussie government made a big enough stink. I can't decide whether Indonesia will release her for good P.R. or shoot her to make an example.

Signed it, I completely disagree with you guys, laws like this shouldn't even exist. I mean, seriously, a firing squad! thats ludicrous!

I have read quite a bit about it. It is *possible* she was in the wrong place at the wrong time - you would hope that the court system in any country is good enough to take that into account. However, I don't think anybody should take anything seen/read in the media as 100% truth.

Also, I think politically it would be seen by the public as a good thing (if she is convicted) for her to be brought home. Our political ties with Indonesia are about as strong as they have ever been. I doubt she will be executed, whether I sign the petition or not. Little Johnny is too good a politician to pass up this opportunity to look good.

As you may know from reading my posts in other threads, I am all for capital punishment. I am in favor of firing squads for murderers, rapists, and other sorts of violent criminals. This, however, is outrageous. I find it disturbing that there are people who say "Well, that's the law, tought shit." This sort of attitude is on display in several current threads, and I find it bizarre. The law is not always right or just, laws are imperfect, because they are made by humans. I don't agree with any punishment regarding marijuania (no, I do not use it), and killing someone for having pot is fucking insane. I don't care if some country decides to make some fucked up law, I don't have to agree with it, or be so indifferent. I hope if this woman is rescued by the Australian SAS if they decide to carry through with the execution.

Really? What planet do you live on?

Agreed.

Again, I have my doubts about this...

Kill her.

It's her own damn fault.

EDIT: well, after reading many of the articles, it seems she may not be guilty. If she is guilty though, then she should be punished according to the laws. Their country, their laws.

I can't believe some people don't care that someone is going to be executed over pot. Yet some of the people that don't care I'm sure supported the war in Iraq, because sadam was an evil guy. Hey it was sadams country, his rules.

Like Carn points out, the issue isn't really whether Indonesia's drug laws are too strict, but whether she is guilty or not. If she is, in fact, guilty, then the court should punish her how it sees fit. Everybody knows that carrying drugs around the world is illegal, and there is no living soul in Australia that isn't aware of Indonesia's tough drug laws. Every person and his dog in Australia has been to Bali and we all know the laws. Genocide and evil tyrannical dictator-ness deserve outside intervention, but a country's drug laws are its own business.

I think it's more important to find out whether she is guilty or not. Going simply but what I've heard in the news I don't think she is guilty, I think she was framed. There's a host of evidence supporting her guilt and her innocence, some of the stuff indicating she was framed is pretty compelling. I just don't think it adds up, it doesn't look like she was deliberately smuggling the pot into the country. I feel incredibly sorry for her and wish there was more Australia could do to find prove her innocence. I don't want Australia to 'get her out of it', I want my government to find more evidence supporting her claim that she was framed. I don't see that as Australia butting into Bali's justice system, I see it protecting its own citizens until found guilty.

First we don't support ANY online petitions at all, from Save the Planet to Save the Whales. I've edited the URL out of the discussion.

Second, when you fill out your Visa application on the plane, it says in BIG BOLD RED LETTERS, DEATH TO DRUG TRAFFICKERS.

When living in Singapore, I travelled frequently to Indonesia and Malaysia. All three of them had that listed on their Visas.

We live in a global society where mala prohibita laws vary from no crime to death for the crime

In the Netherlands prostitution is legal, in Iran... death

While we can do nothing about these laws, you need to operate within their boundaries no matter who you are.

If she's guilty, that really sucks that she chose to traffic drugs into a place where they kill you for it.

Anyone see the movie Brokedown Palace?

Well, I heard the Australian justice minister interviewed on the radio this morning. He is having talks with the attorney general of Indonesia on two things:
1. if she is found guilty that she is not given a death sentence
2. looking at putting an agreement in place to repatriate each others prisoners (he said there were 11 Aussies in Indonesian gaols, and 30 Indonesians in gaol here, so this one was not a corby only thing, and is actually negotiations that were already underway.)

i don't see how it's the airlines fault because they didn't catch the canabis before it left australia. it's all her fault and i believe that whatever she gets, she deserves.

it doesn't matter if we believe that their laws are outdated to us. to them, it's acceptable, and she did do the crime there, so their laws rule over everybody elses. that's why i'm never leaving the good ole USA.

Well then you are going to be missing out on an awful lot.

mmmmm firingsquad.... cost efective....mmmmmmm

People only complain about the stupidity of laws when it bothers them in particular. Until such time, it matters not. If the law there is to be shot to death for bringing 4 kilos of pot into their country, then you eat a lead salad for your last meal- you don't do it, get caught, and then whine and bitch about how "outdated" or "barbaric" it is. It's their law. You respect it, or you pay the price.

And no, it's NOT the fault of the fucking autralian government for "not catching it before it left", it's the fault of the stupid woman who brought it.

If she's innocent, then she's innocent- and there's no reason to get our shorts in a twist. If she's guilty- then she pays whatever price they put on her head.

I file this under "tough shit".

EDIT: I hope she doesn't have any kids, so her genetics stop with her.

Your laws are seen as draconian compared to many other countries, so maybe it's time for you to leave?;)


While I think the punishment for the crime is way over the top, i don't think it's another countries buisiness to tell them what to do.

1) You have no right to tell another country what their laws should be, so unless you are from Indonesia you have no justification to mess with it.

2) An Australian citizen is subject to the laws of the country they are in; she was in Indonesia and to show outrage that she is subject to a penalty you think barbaric is the height of arrogance.

3) The purpose of this petition would be what again? Indonesia does not give a flying fuck about it no matter how many sign it, so the only reason for it to exist is so someone (namely you) can mentally masturbate about how many people are 'outraged'. If you really cared you would be doing something worthwhile, but apparently all this person's life is worth to you is 1,842 keystrokes. I applaud your effort.

4) Personally I think that all drugs should be legalized, and that if we wish to change the laws of another country then a good way to do it is to take over by force. What I don't approve of is people lying about their motives and treating me like an intellectual dildo.

i realize i'm missing out on a heck of a world out there but there is too much here in the USA to be seen in a lifetime. i'll look down on all parts of the world when i'm in heaven!


splck: draconian?? don't use words that i don't know the meaning of :thumbsup: how am i supposed to respond to that? :D

Dunno what the Australian government has done, but they should definitely try to help her out. Countries should aid their citizens abroad. And death penalty is barbaric, no matter what the offense is.

Seeing how the airlines operate, it is possible to load someone elses bags with stuff. I don't think baggage handlers are watched that closely here. If her bags were not locked (as I usually do when travelling) then she may well have been a victim. I think if she is a victim, the perpetrators could of at least split the packages so as to be only 2kg each therefore not impose the possibility of 'death' on the victim.

If she did do it - then silly her... :(

I personally think there is enough 'reasonable doubt' at the Australian end, but whether they consider that sort of thing in Bali?? It's all such a shame but that's how it is...

I don't think that the death penalty is always excessive, by the following line of reasoning. Opinions can differ about the maximum penalty for a crime, but a good measure of what the absolute minimum for a crime should be can be found by looking at the infraction itself, e.g. "make the punishment fit the crime". For example suppose shoplifting is punishable by a fine; obviously the fine should never be less than the value of the item shoplifted or it would always be a good idea to steal it even with a 100% chance of being caught. Similarly a fine equal to the value of the item is not enough because there is a chance of getting away with it for free.

In the case of a murder someone has inflicted death and if the punishment must be less than death then it will always be an advantageous trade. Realistically the penalty for a murder should be worse than death, perhaps torture and then execution.

Laws are intended to prevent crimes and so the punishment must be serious enough to make the law effective. A criminal looks at the value they get from committing a crime and compares it with the penalty for the crime less their chance at getting away with it, and judging it worth the risk commits the crime. In this case she apparently judged the profit from the smuggling worth the risk, and now that she is caught she must pay the price.

Admittedly there is no way to assure that innocent people are not convicted of crimes, but this should not affect the severity of punishments. If someone is innocent then the punishment is always excessive; adjusting punishments to be fair to those who are not guilty of the crime would eliminate them completely. Instead effort should be put into improving the system to avoid convicting innocents.

to all the ppl that say this isn't their concern and punishment is important to uphold . . .

Just a thought .. . but:
IF this was your sister, daughter, neice, wife . . . you'd feel alot different.
It's easy to remove yourself from a situation when it doesn't affect you . . . but if you put yourself in the shoes of someone this woman is important too and then think about it .............

Sweetpea

So basically you are saying that if our judgment was flawed by emotion then we would feel differently, so we should make flawed conclusions in sympathy for those so afflicted? I don't think she is your sister, daughter, niece, or wife so what is your excuse for such a defective outlook?

Of course it's important to respect the laws of whatever country you are in, and not ask for special treatment based on your country of origin. Yes, you should be willing to accept reasonable consequences for your actions, and you should certainly be prepared to accept the known consequences of your actions. I also recognize that the United States government doesn't have a moral leg to stand on when it comes to the death penalty in other countries.

I oppose the death penaly in general and in this case, even if the woman is guilty, I think it's unnecessarily harsh punishment relative to the crime, and I think it's entirely fair to object on those grounds.

However, to object on the basis of her citizinship or on the basis of the method of execution seems off to me. Why should it matter what the method of execution is; she'll be dead in the end. Firing squad is no more barbaric than the electric chair or gas chamber. I'd venture it's more humane than the gas chamber, as death comes more quickly and with less suffering.

To those that oppose the death penalty for her, would you be this passionate for all the Indonesians that get executed for trafficking "pot"? Would you still give a shit if it was a Pakistani? Afhgani? Nigerian? Would you sign a petition to stop the death penalty for the countless blacks in our own country (some whose only crime is well, being black.

For Australia to interfere in another soveriegn nation's legal system is a serious violation of that country's autonomy and would set bad precedent. And to send the Aussie SAS to bust her out? That's just dumb. Not even the Aussie's are dumb enough to do something like that (not that Indonesia's much of a military threat anyway). No, leave it alone, this story is blown way out of proportion. I haven't even seen this story on any of the real news wires.

It's real here in Australia jorgelito... ;)

I think the worst shame is that she's probably not going to get a fair trial. Here, with all the evidence that's been given in her favour and the reasonable doubt that any one baggage handler could have put it in there, she'd probably be walking already.

hehheehe, no one has ever called my perspectives 'defective' . . . :lol:

The point i was making was not about emotion at all. . . rather . . . it is easy to deem someone else's life worthless if you don't personally feel the Consequences. I believe that when upholding principles . . . one should take into account how they would think if the death of this woman was Actually important to them instead of some nameless, faceless individual . . .

btw, thanks for the good laugh you gave me and my friends . . . 'defective' . . . hehehehehehe

Sweetpea

Absolutely I would. I don't believe anyone should ever be executed for anything. However, if there is going to be capital punishment, it should be reserved for only the worst, most heinous crimes: child molestation, murder, and forcicble rape. Trafficking pot isn't even in the top 1000 when it comes to crimes that deserve serious punishment (personally I don't even think it should be illegal, but that's another discussion).

But surely being wrong is not a completely new phenomenon. I suppose that I could have used "erroneous", but I wanted to avoid "wrong" due to the chance of being mistaken for a moral stance.
I find it surprising that you support an alteration of judgement that not only the justice system but all the philosophers who try to be objective view to hinder making correct decisions. If you are going to depart from rational thinking in favor of purely emotional arguments then kindly state it plainly near the start of your post so that it can be disregarded with ease.
I don't think it is amusing to knowingly hold flawed thought processes and then try to inflict your conclusions on other people. Of course, this appears to be instead an astonishingly poorly disguised Appeal to Mockery.

Schapelle Corby was sentenced to 20 years in an Indonesian prison today. One could say she didn't receive an entirely fair hearing, as no fingerprints were allowed to be taken from the bag of drugs. Her defence is appealing, and until then, she remains imprisoned in an Indonesian hellhole.

Somewhere, several baggage handlers are possibly feeling pretty darn lousy.

Linkage

i just hope that for the sake of other australians imprisoned on trumped up charged in makeshift jails without right to proper councel, that the australian government does something for them

the australian gov't can take the initiative and try and save another aussie who has broken no international, australian or american laws, yet has been imprsined incommunicado for 3.5 years on charges so vague that my dead nanna could be brought to justice.

lets see the aussies stand up for david and protest as loudly for david as they did for shappelle..david and shappelle really are in the same boat, or is it only to the indoniseans that we show our political muscle?

And how do you come about the notion of emotion being flawed? It may obscure purely logical thought processes, but as far as law is concerned, that only goes so far as in determining guilt, and avoiding personal biases. Compassion does not require bias, and in fact, should be applied without it.

Sweetpea is simply asking how you would feel if it were someone with whom you were connected. It's not a flaw to consider this person in the same way; it is a flaw not to. To separate yourself completely from the situation simply because you have the situational fortitude to do so is no more right than is to base legal judgements on one's own emotional attachment, or lack thereof, to the accused.

Or maybe these people should obey and respect the laws of other countries. She was lucky she didn't get the death penalty. That was probably out of consideration for her as a Westerner (white).

Suave:

"To separate yourself completely from the situation simply because you have the situational fortitude to do so is no more right than is to base legal judgements on one's own emotional attachment, or lack thereof, to the accused."

How come then, in every matter of court a judge, a lawyer, a member of a jury will get removed from the case if there is an emotional attachment to the case?
Seems to me that it IS right to do so, exactly *because* you have to option.
If you hope to achieve *any* level of equality in punishment for misdemeanors and crimes, you'll do well to have an unattached entity judge it, compassion included(which like you said, should be applied regardless).

I'm not saying that for the parties involved, this wouldn't have been a tragedy, to lose somebody... Far from it.
What I am saying is that even though it would have been one, the punishment should still have to stand.

As for Sweetpea: what good can come from mocking a person's use of a word in the correct way?

Just reading the story... would this girl really have had 4something kilos of pot and left it in her bag?

Many people are just flat saying "she had the drugs, she should have been shot."
But what if she didn't, what if she was just traveling through and got uber screwed.

Any number of people could have slipped something in or out of my bags when I fly. If I was suddenly arrested, had no clue why, and was facing death... and people all over the place were saying "he had it coming"....


I can't help but get the idea that this is very political.
"We will not back down to Australians"

I hope everyone drops their plans to go to Indonesia, or any of these 'backwards' countries.

Australian baggage handlers are rumoured to have a drug smuggling racket happening, and it appears someone forgot to take the bag out of her boogie board bag when she left Sydney. I mean....who smuggles drugs into Bali??

That's the thing, some people think she could be guilty because it's so simple - if she gets away with it then she scores, but if she gets caught then it looks just like somebody planted it. If it's really well hiddden then she can't very well claim she was framed. I don't think anyone out there (except for the Indonesians) believes she should be punished even if she was framed. Most Australians believe she was framed and shouldn't be punished, but it seems the Indonesian officials think she knew about it, and even if she didn't she should be punished as a deterrent to others if they're thinking of trying the same thing.

Crying that it's political doesn't make too much sense to me - prison time is for rehabilitation, to protect a person from society, AND to show other potential criminals what'll happen when they're caught. And since South East Asia has such a huge drug problem (particularly Bali with its massive tourist industry catering to young holiday-makers and students from Australia) it's obvious why they'd want to make an example out of her. I don't think that's out of line if she is guilty.

Bali's tourist industry is going downhill anyway. The 2002 Bali bombing scared lots of people away and the threat of terrorism and the increased security measures aren't enticing many Aussies to go, and the Corby case has made many Aussies boycott Bali in protest, or just not want to risk it for themselves. Not looking too good for Bali I think.

But, since I believe she's innocent, I hope the courts rule that there's not enough proof to convict her. I don't think they'll ever prove she's innocent, so hopefully they'll just have to realize that they can't prove she's guilty either and let her go.

EDIT: I just read that she's been sentences to 20 years, I feel terribly sorry for her, words can't even describe how she must be feeling. I don't think Aussies are too fond of the Indonesian courts at the moment :(

Moral of the story.

Stay in "Western" nations.

I know I'll never go to bali now.

And I sure hope other people feel the same, or at least think a little harder about it.

I'd still go to Bali, but I would keep the same common sense I use here in the states and NOT BREAK ANY LAWS I'M NOT PREPARED TO TAKE THE PUNISHMENT FOR!

I'd go to Bali. Being scared to go to a non-western country because of this event is more paranoia than common sense.

The moral of the story: lock your baggage.

I wouldn't call it being scared or parinoid but common sense.

If you go to nations with kangaroo courts don't be surprised if your trip is longer than expected.

Well, certain western nations put you in jail for years without trial...

If she is guilty than she deserves the punishment since she knew that.
The USA, for example, also executes foreigners and noone complains (well almost noone ;)).

one of the reasons why I was always so careful when I was south of the border...

Emotional attachment to the case is only in reference to emotional bias. Bias is the absolute key word here. It is not about removing emotion from the process, it is about treating everyone equally. First off, it is impossible to remove bias in reality anyway, and it will always be there no matter how "objective" people are. Second, it is possible to be unbiased and involve emotion, or to be biased purely on a logical basis. Just because the concepts are not generally considered in such a manner does not make logic infallible and emotion fallible. It all depends how they are applied.

Looks like she got 20 years, pending appeal.

If she's guilty, she deserves it. The law is the law. Until it changes, break it and face the consequences.

If she's innocent, then it just goes to show how "pot never harmed anyone" is a bunch of bullshit. She's going to jail (and could have been executed) so some stoners could get high on the shit she was unwittingly smuggling.

-Mikey

The cultural relativism is literally making me sick. I can't understand how anyone can brush this off by saying, "well, it's their law and she should have obeyed it." Throughout history, humankind has worked endlessly to triumph over unjust governments, and once they're gone, we stop caring and let them take over again. The whole fucking world should be working to stop this kind of abuse.

I can't come up with words strong enough to describe my feeligns on this particular situation. I have enough issues with the death penalty being used on people who actually did something wrong, like killing others, but to use it for something like drug trafficking stirs up anger and disgust in me that, once again, is beyond the realm of what I can find words to describe. If a citizen of a country over which I presided were in this situation, I would not hesitate to send a special forces military unit in to rescue them.

Additionally, and this is why I'll probably never make it into any sort of major political office, I would refuse to have any sort of diplomatic relations or trade with any country that so blatantly violated human rights. Fundamentalist states whose governments execute people for "immorality," totalitarian states that execute and murder their own citizens for dissent, and any country with policies that oppress anyone who does not violate the rights of others fall into this category.

Honestly, the fact that 2 million years of evolution and thousands of years of widespread social progress can't bring us past this kind of barbarism brings me to a sort of apathetic attitude toward the fact that global warming will bake most of us off the face of the planet in the next few hundred years. Maybe if we have to unite to work against something that threatens us more than we threaten each other, we'll get past the phase where we let oppressive governments kill us for doing nothing wrong.

What about the right of people to live in a safe environment, where people follow the law. What about the right to take your kid to the beach and not have to worry about DRUG TRAFFICKERS with 9 lbs. of drugs in their bag!

Changing the law would be the way to go about it, not sending in spec ops to break someone out of jail and violate anothers countries sovereignty. What your suggesting is starting a war. The law is the law, you can't go around saying peeople should declare war on other countries because they don't agree with your beliefs. Thats what terrorists do.

Are you advocating using special forces to enter another country, attack a government facility, kill innocent soldiers whos only crime is to fight for their country, and help a convicted drug trafficker out of jail?

MrSelfDestruct
I agree that it is our duty to stop particularly unjust governments from torturing their populations, but in this instance they have a pretty good position.

First of all she was not arrested for an arbitrary offense like failing to bow as royalty passes, or for being a woman with her head uncovered, or other nonsense. She was arrested and charged with being a drug smuggler, and with very convincing evidence; while there is always the chance she is not guilty it is safe to say that charging her made sense.

As for the penalty perhaps being too harsh, we in the West have a different view of the issue. Personally I think that most illegal drugs should not be outlawed as the behavior they are supposed to encourage is already illegal, and currently the ban is more damaging in that they provide funds to criminal elements. You have to understand that in that area of the world there are large, organized drug operations which frequently clash with governmental armies in fairly large military actions. The "War on Drugs" in this case is quite an appropriate name, and in some cases the criminal syndicates are better funded than the government. Serious penalties for drug smuggling make sense in this context.

I don't see the problem here; she was arrested with good reason, had a trial, and as it turns out did not receive the death penalty. Everyone who was not there and has no real information about the particulars of the trial can still crow about kangaroo courts mainly because there is no way to stop such idiocy, but I think they were justified.

Ustwo, I'm not sure what you mean when you say kangaroo courts. Being from Australia and the kangaroo being our mark so to speak, I'm confused with this expression.

I think it could be seen as both common sense and paranoia.. the bottom line being that if you have not committed a crime, you can still be in trouble.

I responded in the Australia thread that if you lock your bags and take pictures of said bags before you boarded with a time/date stamp.. then that could possibly keep you out of this type of trouble. Last thought here though was that if the pictures would stand up as evidence in their court system...

Haha! That would not stand up as evidence in a high school civics courtroom roleplay.

oh i would have to agree Mrselfdestruct...

"I would refuse to have any sort of diplomatic relations or trade with any country that so blatantly violated human rights"

now lets see...human rights huh.. lets see..China (blatent crackdown on minority groups in the name of anti-terror)..strike...Russia..(ditto)..strike..most of sth west asia and central asia..(ditto) ..strike..africa..(dictators, civil unrest, poor human rights records)..strike...mid east (ditto as africa)..strike..USA... (rendition of prisoners to other counrties, blatant breaking of geneva conventions, guantanamo..lets not go there.. crackdown on minority groups...weapons of mass destruction hoax etc etc etc)

there we go... we just struck off most of the known world for human rights abuses. not many countries left to deal with really.. maybe we should all move to switzelrand or sweden or something.

the fact that a sovereign country with its own laws (based on european systems of law mind you..im sure it was the dutch system) convicts a drug smuggler to 20 years is not any countries business. the indonesians didnt kidnap her and smuggle her into the country..she arrived on a plane and was convicted of carrying drugs. whether or not the trail was fair is another story. but we cannot interfere in another sovereign countries affairs.. thats what dictators and terrorists do...unless ure name of course is mr Bush. then in that case you can kidnap prisoners from zambia, bosnia, and across the mid east and throw them on an island called cuba..render them to other counrties to do your dirty work and then bring them back. lets call a spade a spade.

yeah she did get rough justice i think... but we cant just willy nilly send in covert commandos to break out a convicted drug smuggler. especially ocnsidering that indonesia IS australias closest neighbour. whatever happened to diplomacy?!?!

anotehr issue i have is this... had this been someone from a third world country, it would never have made the front pages..but a young pretty aussie girl..and its a debacle.

had someone been convicted in austalia of smuggling drugs, we all would have asked for the maximum penalty...lets not talk about the inhumanity of indonesians.. we all are capable of doing much worse. doesnt matter which part of the world you come from.

Hmmm.. thanks Phage for making fun of my idea to try to come to terms with the issue of travel and safety... I don't think my post was a definite answer to the concern about the bottom line being that if you have not committed a crime, you can still be in trouble.

:rolleyes:

kangaroo court would be a court where the outcome was predetermined reguardless of the evidence.

Irishsean what makes you think she is guility? The fact that someone said she was?
This court thinks the same way you do, if someone says she did it, it is up to her to prove she didn't.

It is very hard to prove that you didn't do something. If it was your bag, and I came along in the back room, and shoved it full of pot, how would you prove you didn't do it?


.. you can't even lock your luggage as far as I know, or they cut the locks off.


What was her record in Australia, did she have a history of drugs?

I still think it is 9 pounds of pot... and that is a HUGE amount to put in a bag... I think there is no way she did that.

I am not pro-pot here, I am feel she didn't have anything to do with it. If she did it, I wouldn't care as much. Well, I woudl still be worried about the court systems.

I carry around a bag with my hobby stuff in it all the time, I sure as hell would notice if it suddenly was 9 lbs. heavier. The first thing I would do is open it, see it had a bunch of pot, and head for the nearest police station. The cops are a lot more likely to believe you if you turn it in yourself rather than get caught with it.

As for whether shes guilty or not, I don't know. But she was convicted in a court of law, while some people might argue it was unfair, it followed the law of the country she was in. To say countries who have laws or punishments we disagree with, so we should assault them with military forces and free convicted criminals is asinine.

I think its hilarious that the people that are so against the war and Bush putting our morals on other countries are also the ones screaming that we need to go in and put our morals and laws on the people of Bali to protect this person.

Ya can't have it both ways...

well it was revealed the other day that her dad got caught with marijuana in his younger days..but he also denied it was his..dejavu.. but it must also be stated that she did have a clean record. most ppl have tried marijuana in their younger days (even if u dont inhale lol), so its no big deal that her dad was caught with it..it was probably the 60's too, so i guess u can be forgiven?

on the issue of the sentence, to give a lenient sentence would give a green light for others to traffic drugs into bali. another issue is the Bali 9 (9 aussies caught traficking drugs from bali to sydney a few weeks ago). now that they have found out what Corby got, they have realised what they are up against. lets just remmeber that had the drugs come onto the street, someone son or daughter may have been killed because of it... the way i see it, its the indonesians cleaning up their own backyard.

i still think 20 years is harsh for marijuana.... i have mixed feelings about this whole case. i feel for her, but also know that the indonesians have a right to uphold their law, without external meddling

I was under the impression that she never touched her bag after checking it in Australia.

What her dad did has nothing to do with her.

someone asked for a 'history of drugs'. to some, it may be a cause for concern. although i agree that whatever her dad did has nothing to do with her, i was just trying to be subjective.

so what you are saying then allows for ALL other governments and factions (includes all terrorist groups) the same reasoning to attack the American courts, lifestyles, and belief systems based on these above tenents.

I'm not even going to include internals like evangelicals.

I'm sorry, but I must say that if she was bringing drugs into a foreign country, she should be held responsible under their laws. I in no way would state that their laws are too fierce, because I don't know how bad their drug epidemic is. It may be a necessary measure to insure that drugs stay out of their country and meant to send a message to drug smugglers.

I think the entire situation is extremely sad..... It doesnt sound as if she even had a chance at a fair trial. Once they find someone with drugs in a country like that- the decision has been made that you are guilty and will be punished to the full extent of the law. It's just really hard for me coming from the country that I come from- how someone could possibly get that much time for the amount of pot they had. Now I am by no means a fan of drugs (I actually am very against even pot), but to give someone 20 years for possession, is something I cant even begin to fathom. Especially in a situation like this, when she may very well be innocent.

she didnt get punished to thefull extent of the law though diddagirl. she could have got death sentence, but instead they gave her 20. and the prosecution is appealing saying the sentence is too lenient.

Ahh, thanks much...

In the US, 9 pounds of marijuana wouldn't be possession, that would be intent to distribute... I'd imagine if she had a few ounces, then the 20 year sentence wouldn't have been enforced... it probably owuld have been a lot less...

Even Olympic Snowboarders wouldn't be able to go thru 9 pounds of pot in a weekend... :D

She was found guilty in a court of law.

Unless the verdict is overturned on appeal, and personally i dont think it will/should be, she should serve the 20 years.

This is a case that has been highly publicised here. I don't think this was a "kangaroo court" as pointed out above. I think her defence team had a complete lack of evidence to use to acquit her. Allegations of a possible drug smuggling operation by baggage handlers are exactly that - allegations. The testimony of a criminal doing time in Oz, describing an overheard conversation, would've also been inadmissable here (he would not have even got into the court room). The evidence that could've been used to acquit her (weight of her total bags when the arrived in Bali, video in Brisbane of her baggage when it was loaded) was never acquired, either through bungling or misadventure. It basically came down to her not being able to prove the drugs were not hers. On the evidence put forward, she probably would've been found guilty in Australia as well.

BTW - she was facing the death penalty, so 20 years might be seen as leniency on the part of the judges. Also, the prosecution is also set to appeal the size of the sentence, believing she should get life, so her appeal might actually backfire.

Finally - my guess is she is innocent, but that is all it is - a guess.

As oftenas I travel. I've never really looked-- whever i check my bag, it's weighed.. I have always assumed it was to make sure it was under a specific weight -- because i have seen the agents make people redistribute stuff in suitcases or charge the passenger an excess baggage fee...

Is that weight recorded anywhere?

maybe it should be? It'd be a pretty easy test to know if something was added to the bag OR taken out.

I like that if I get an island, and the coconuts and I form a court of law; everyone will be behind our us. We give 20 years to people with yellow shirts or cell phone ring tones. We don’t have any jail cells… so we just eat all the prisoners

Some people seem to instantly believe that anyone accused of anything is guilty.
I hope you guys don’t end up in an American jury.

Remember way back when that American kid in Singapore got caned for tagging graffitti? I see no difference here. You should read up on the laws of a foreign country before visiting especially if you plan on smuggling weed. Maybe this will set an example.

are u saying that an island like indonesia with a population of 200 million? is just an island with no set judicial system in place? i find it hard to believe.

Being someone who has never been a drug trafficer, how much bulk is 9lbs of pot?

I saw it on our news the other night.. it was about a flatish pillow size..

It has a judicial system and it works just fine. The problem is there is a level of politics being played out here as well...

That and the fact that the defense had nothing solid in the way of exculpatory evidence.

yeah i knew that charlatan, just making a point :D. the fact remains that the defence could not disprove the claims that they were not hers, whereas the prosecution had 9 pounds of drugs in her bag. the problem for her being that its the presumption of guilt that is law, and not the other way round...so shes in a predicament.

I was talking to my sister about this today and she told me about the differences between Australia's and Indonesia's judicial system. I don't know much about this so I might be wrong in relating what she said. Indonesia's system is inquisitory, which means the judge can ask questions about her history. There are rumors that she has never touched any drugs, rumors that she "experimented" in her teenage years, rumors that her father was a junkie and rumors that her brother is a stoner and hid them in her bag so she wouldn't get caught. Apparently the prosecution can ask her all sorts of things, so if she was a stoner or even smoked pot once at a party when she was sixteen (provided she tells the truth) they can use that as evidence against her character. Australia is different in that past history like that is ignored as it has no relevence to the case at hand. Even if she was a total junkie five years ago it doesn't mean the bag was hers. If she was framed on this occasion then she was framed, even if she normally smokes pot at home.

I might have some of this wrong so if anyone knows better, please say so.

Why in the hell would anyone want to save this chick..? Cause she's "hot"..? I've seen people get alot worse, for alot less...She may as well get ready...

Execution by any means, especially in terms of certain guilt, is a good thing...

I always say "We live by our choices". 9 lbs seems like alot to just slip into someones bag. I'm all for stiffer punishments. If our courts would give harsh punish people the first time around, maybe we wouldn't have so many problems? Just a thought.

execution for a soft recreational drug? it wasnt that long ago, alcohol was illegal too.

have u considered joining forces with the taliban?

Thats getting close to the line man, can we keep it to discussion over the subject rather than personal attacks please?

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, just because it might not be in line with yours, doesn't make it incorrect. Thanks.

While I don't think execution really fits the crime, and I would argue against it were that the case where I live, I don't live in Bali, and I don't know what its like there. From what I've read, they have a large drug problem, and right on the entrance visa it does say "Death to Drug Traffickers!" so I can't really say there wasn't sufficient warning. It's the law, when you travel to foreign countries, you have to follow the laws, no matter what the people in your home country think is right or wrong.

As for her not putting them them in her bag, c'mon people. It was 9 lbs of drugs, a bag of extremely high grade marijuana aproximately the size of a pillow! If someone doesn't notice that, I dunno what to say. Realisticly she should have immediately noticed her bag had something else in it, it was a soft sided board bag. If she honestly didn't know the drugs were there, don't you think she would have opened it right there and reported it to the police?

I'm glad she didn't get executed, but as for the jail time, I'm not sorry she got what she did. It seems to me that she would have to be really, really naive to have actually not known about it.

I don't mean death for drugs, just a stiffer punishment for crimes. Here, its a slap on the wrist and send them back to sell,buy, do drugs. And alot of it is to kids. People beat their kids and have them back in 3 months. Is this right? I think people need to be held accountable for their actions. Whether it be the first offence or the 50th offence. Like I said, 9 lbs is alot to not notice being slipped in your bag. Thats like the size of a newborn baby.

sorry my apologies..i retract my last line...am i supposed to edit it now?

It was a law in place, he broke the law, and he shouldn't get away with it, I just with laws in the US had as bad as consquences as in other countries....

1. 9lbs of marijuana, even if tightly packed, would be quite a bulk. Likely 24" or 36" long x 12" wide x 6" deep, somewhere near there. Even in a suitcase, that's still a quite large and cumbersome thing. I don't buy that she didn't know it was there.

2. No one can mistake an extra 9lbs of weight, especially if it was a light pack to begin with. I find it VERY hard to believe she could say she "didn't notice" 9 extra pounds.

3. Marijuana has a VERY strong odor. It would have to be packed incredibly well not to be smelled from the outside of a suitcase or backpack, whatever.

4. Hiding it in plain view is the perfect scenario for moving something like that. People do it all the time. As said before, if you leave it out for anyone to discover, then you can claim you had no idea how it got there. If a person is randomly searched, the chance of hiding a bag like that is almost totally nill. Leaving it on top allows you to act all surprised as to how it got there.

I believe she did it. And no, my decision would not be different if it were my brother, etc.

Also: in many places, as it is here in my home state in the US, you get 15 years in prison for selling any quantity within 200 ft of a school or housing project- let alone trafficking 9 pounds across international borders. So how is 20 years so much more barbaric, other than maybe the conditions of the jail, which are a separate matter?

Side note: I'm 100% for the legalization of marijuana, so don't snap at me. I'm dealing in reality.

Since this case came to light I have done some reading and while I do believe she should be punished the death penalty (now commuted to 20 years) is excessive for what she did and especially after reading this...

...about the Bali bombings that killed (I believe) 88 Aussies.
______________________________________________________________________
An Indonesian court today sentenced two men each to 42 months jail for providing refuge to two Malaysian terror suspects wanted for deadly bombing attacks.
______________________________________________________________________


So, aiding a terror suspect is better than hauling some smoke...go figure.

After this, I would sign a petition to lower her sentence to at least the level of these 2 terror scumbags.

Oh, I am sorry, I was almost certain that was a joke like suggesting they use the honor system.