More Proof of "Pussification of America" - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

jorgelito · 04-04-2005, 12:40 AM

Here's some more proof of MojoPeiPei's coined phrase, "Pussification of America".

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...us/no_more_red

I am stronlgy opposed to this type of "coddling". I believe we are sending the kids the wrong message and making them soft. The parent's need to parent and support the teachers. I am surprised that anyone would still want to be a teacher after all the sh*t we out them through.

This type of thinking is similar to banning dodge ball, changing the rules of competition so "everyone's a winner" etc. Now I am not advocating abuse or "boot camp" but c'mon, a little reality and common sense please.

We need to bring personal responsibility and accountablility back.

Cut the kids more slack or hell no, discipline and work ethic?

Your thoughts?

john_713 · 04-04-2005, 12:45 AM

That is just insane! Surely you have to ask why the teachers chose to use red in the first place....it stands out and makes the errors clear. I personallally used to do all my work in black or blue. It wouldn't be easy to distinguish between my work and the teacher's corrections if they were the same colour. If the work is wrong then it's wrong! There is no point in trying to disguise that fact by doing it in a different colour.

jorgelito · 04-04-2005, 01:06 AM

I personally like to see my "A's" in bold red at the top.

Glory's Sun · 04-04-2005, 05:18 AM

for those of you who don't want to click the link::

Quote:

Red Falls Out of Favor As Teacher's Choice

Sun Apr 3, 5:09 PM ET

Add to My Yahoo! U.S. National - AP

By BEN FELLER, AP Education Writer

WASHINGTON - Of all the things that can make a person see red, school principal Gail Karwoski was not expecting parents to get huffy about, well, seeing red. At Daniels Farm Elementary School in Trumbull, Conn., Karwoski's teachers grade papers by giving examples of better answers for those students who make mistakes. But that approach meant the kids often found their work covered in red, the color that teachers long have used to grade work.

Parents objected. Red writing, they said, was "stressful." The principal said teachers were just giving constructive advice and the color of ink used to convey that message should not matter. But some parents could not let it go.

So the school put red on the blacklist. Blue and other colors are in.

"It's not an argument we want to have at this point because what we need is the parents' understanding," Karwoski said. "The color of the message should not be the issue."

In many other schools, it's black and white when it comes to red. The color has become so symbolic of negativity that some principals and teachers will not touch it.

"You could hold up a paper that says 'Great work!' and it won't even matter if it's written in red," said Joseph Foriska, principal of Thaddeus Stevens Elementary in Pittsburgh.

He has instructed his teachers to grade with colors featuring more "pleasant-feeling tones" so that their instructional messages do not come across as derogatory or demeaning.

"The color is everything," said Foriska, an educator for 31 years.

At Public School 188 in Manhattan, 25-year-old teacher Justin Kazmark grades with purple, which has emerged as a new color of choice for many educators, pen manufacturers confirm.

"My generation was brought up on right or wrong with no in between, and red was always in your face," Kazmark said. "It's abrasive to me. Purple is just a little bit more gentle. Part of my job is to be attuned to what kids respond to, and red is not one of those colors."

Three top pen and marker manufacturers — Bic, Pilot Pen and Sanford, which produces Papermate and Sharpie — are making more purple pens in response to rising sales. School leaders and teachers are largely driving that demand, company representatives say.

"They're trying to be positive and reinforcing rather than being harsh," said Robert Silberman, Pilot Pen's vice president of marketing. "Teachers are taking that to heart."

The disillusionment with red is part of broader shift in grading, said Vanessa Powell, a fifth-grade teacher at Snowshoe Elementary School in Wasilla, Alaska.

"It's taken a turn from 'Here's what you need to improve on' to 'Here's what you've done right,'" Powell said. "It's not that we're not pointing out mistakes, it's just that the method in which it's delivered is more positive."

Her students, she said, probably would tune out red because they are so used to it. So she grades with whatever color — turquoise blue, hot pink, lime green — appeals to them.

That is a sound approach, said Leatrice Eiseman, a color specialist with a background in psychology who has written several books on the ties between colors and communication.

"The human eye is notoriously fickle and is always searching for something new to look at it," she said. "If you use a color that has long been used in a traditional way, you can lose people's attention, especially if they have a history of a lot of red marks on their papers."

Purple may be rising in popularity, Eiseman said, because teachers know it is a mix of blue and red. As she put it: "You still have that element of the danger aspect — the red — but it's kind of subtle, subliminal. It's in the color, rather than being in your face."

In Charles County, Md., reading and writing specialist Janet Jones helps other teachers lead their lessons. The students at Berry Elementary School in Waldorf, Md., use colored pencils to edit each other's papers. By the time teachers get to grading, Jones said, the color they use isn't that important.

"I don't think changing to purple or green will make a huge difference if the teaching doesn't go along with it," Jones said. "If you're just looking at avoiding the color red, the students might not be as frightened, but they won't be better writers."

--My mom is a teacher and she uses red to correct papers. I guess it makes more sense to use red to correct since it stands out better and is easier to see the corrections right away. I think the last statement is the most important though; it doesn't matter what color the paper is graded in, it matters about the quality of teaching.

frogza · 04-04-2005, 05:26 AM

Give me a break! Do these people not have anything else to worry about? I'd gladly donate some of my problems to help them.

04-04-2005, 06:01 AM

I really don't care what colour teachers mark their students grades in. What amazes me is that someone went to the length of writing an article about this. It must have been a quiet week in the office.

martinguerre · 04-04-2005, 06:38 AM

anyone ever stop to think that using the word pussy as an insult may not be the most enlightened way of dealing with something you disagree with?

Mojo_PeiPei · 04-04-2005, 07:11 AM

Saying that this is lending to the pussification of America is just what we need. I'm not about coddling people, especially when they are being soft ass mamby pamby pussies. It's about conveying a point, why would I not call a spade a spade? I might offend them, therefore I shouldn't? That only furthers my point that America is become a bunch of pussy ass bitches, we don't need to always need to act all "enlightened", I would rather take this sucker out of the park and not beat around the Bush. Forget my harsh words but to curb this disease on America people need to realize how retarded they are acting.

So let's see, we have schools abandoning honor rolls because the morons feel bad about themselves because they are not on it, you have teachers putting four chairs for three people in musical chairs, and now we are banning the color red as it has become "symbolic of negativity". These are probably the parents that don't let their kids play with toy guns, or play cowboys and indians because it's politically incorrect.

04-04-2005, 07:17 AM

Your harsh words make you sound stupid and ignorant (please excuse my harsh words)

"We" are not banning anything. A bunch of teachers decided to change their stationary, and someone thought they'd write (a rather boring) article about it.

asaris · 04-04-2005, 07:19 AM

In defense of not using red ink, I learned in my pedagogy course that studies have been done (what haven't studies been done on?) that have seemed to indicate that using red is less effective as a teaching tool than using some other color. So it's not just being touchy-feely, there are reasons why teachers might not use red to grade papers/tests. Unfortunately, I don't have a link to the studies.

Mojo_PeiPei · 04-04-2005, 07:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zen_tom

Your harsh words make you sound stupid and ignorant (please excuse my harsh words)

"We" are not banning anything. A bunch of teachers decided to change their stationary, and someone thought they'd write (a rather boring) article about it.

How do they make me sound stupid and ignorant? If people are acting like morons, why should they not be told as such? Because it's offensive? They are offending me with their sheer stupidity, maybe not so much in this case, Asaris made a legit point about the color red. My harsh words might make me sound like an asshole, they do not however make me sound ignorant.

04-04-2005, 07:32 AM

You can tell someone they are acting foolishly without using the word pussy, moron and asshole. Resorting to words like these make you sound ignorant.

(I'm sure you're not - in fact I know you often make well informed responses that show intelligence and compassion - it's just difficult to take them as seriously if they use anatomical swear-words.)

Mojo_PeiPei · 04-04-2005, 07:39 AM

Haha, my name and compassion in the same sentence, I think that's a first here, thanks man, that made my day.

At any rate I can see what you are saying, but the bottom line is I'm not calling people pussies per say, I'm saying there is a disease sweeping this country, said disease is the pussification of America.

biznatch · 04-04-2005, 08:34 AM

yes indeed. One of the problems of the american system of education is the teachers all seem to wanna be your friends.. "aw, sweetie, you got a D..that's not bad. Its a lot better than an F!! And F is for Fantastic!" ok exagerrating, but I have witnessed a lot of this positive bullshit. everybody is special to them...they just can't accept that some students aren't as good as others...its biological, some people just have it easier in school than others.
Now, if they go as far as saying that red is too negative, then I'm losing hope.
I don't think it has to do with America in general.. just some parts of society, the same that always want to be politically correct(when you can't always stay politically correct).

THGL · 04-04-2005, 08:37 AM

That makes me so mad, I'm seeing... purple?

Willravel · 04-04-2005, 08:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by THGL

That makes me so mad, I'm seeing... purple?

Nice!

This is an unfortunate example of why people should have to be licensed to have kids. These people are morons. Shades of Kyle's mom on South Park.

Ace_O_Spades · 04-04-2005, 09:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by willravel

Shades of Kyle's mom on South Park.

that woman makes me so angry... for a cartoon character.

Pretty much exemplifies everything that I think is wrong with people.

But as for the red ink on papers, I couldn't really care less because the message is there. Writing corrections in red ink or blue ink won't chance the fact the kid might not be as smart as another kid. It is of utmost importance for the teachers to convey that the corrections are not a put-down of the kid's work, and that they should be free to approach the teacher to discuss the corrections.

HAL3000 · 04-04-2005, 10:04 AM

Not sure what to even say here. We could talk this to death... basic point is that we've lost sight of the forest for the trees. Sad really, because our kids are paying the price.

streak_56 · 04-04-2005, 10:10 AM

So... since grading in red meant that it was stressful for me.... I could sue the government for putting me into an umcomfortable position. Oh wait... that would just make me as stupid as them. This is just idiotic. As was said before, its not the colour of the pen that counts, its the quality of the teaching. Needless to say... red= crappy grade isn't a big issue. I had one paper in College that was all marked up in red, but I got an A- on the paper. Its just people taking things way out of proportion.

kutulu · 04-04-2005, 10:21 AM

This really isn't something to get worked up about.

RE: Dodgeball

Even though I enjoyed that it is a cruel game. There is no need for the PE teacher to provide a forum for cruelty.

Bacchanal · 04-04-2005, 10:59 AM

What I don't get more than anything is that if red has been used for so long, because it does stand out so much, are these parents saying that they didn't receive the best education they could've, or that they were enraged as children because of the red ink?

This makes no sense to me at all.

Halx · 04-04-2005, 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by martinguerre

anyone ever stop to think that using the word pussy as an insult may not be the most enlightened way of dealing with something you disagree with?

I really hope that was a joke. If it is, I commend you on your subtle yet brilliant line.

If it wasn't, your statement is a prime example of why everyone in this thread is so up in arms about this supremely pussified notion.

Mojo_PeiPei · 04-04-2005, 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Halx

I really hope that was a joke. If it is, I commend you on your subtle yet brilliant line.

If it wasn't, your statement is a prime example of why everyone in this thread is so up in arms about this supremely pussified notion.

And the truth shall set you free. Jordan fades back "swoosh", that's the ball game!

martinguerre · 04-04-2005, 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Halx

I really hope that was a joke. If it is, I commend you on your subtle yet brilliant line.

If it wasn't, your statement is a prime example of why everyone in this thread is so up in arms about this supremely pussified notion.

Not a joke at all. And I don't give a flying fuck about pen colors, to be quite honest. Nor do i see why anyone else is. Gendered language does concern me.

http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/showthread.php?t=44729

Halx · 04-04-2005, 01:48 PM

Just so I'm clear on this... are you a pussy yourself and thus take offense with the term 'pussy' being applied to things you disagree with?

They're words. WORDS! That's only about 10% of communication, right? The words shouldn't matter. The meaning behind them should. In this case, the term "Pussification of America" means that we're all approaching life with oven mits on and it's ruining our culture.

And you're still hung up on WORDS!

lindseylatch · 04-04-2005, 01:51 PM

mwahahahah! How about we teach our kids to READ the comments, instead of reacting to a color...I mean, if it says "GOOD JOB!" in red, I'd be excited. If it says "PIECE OF SHIT!" in green, I'd be upset.
I don't go into a deep depression just cause there's some red ink on the page. Fuck, I have a little more basis for my self-worth than how many comments a teacher put on my paper I cranked out the night before it was due.
I can see why the school gave in though. they don't give a flying fuck what colors the teachers use, and if it makes the parents happy, it's no sweat off their back.

All these parents are just afraid the teachers are commies...that's the real reason they don't like red. McArthy-ism is back!!!!!
Didn't mean to Bogart your term there Martin, I just think "flying fuck" sounds nice...

ironman · 04-04-2005, 02:15 PM

This kind of stuff is making mediocrity the rule of thumb in our society. It won't be long till some loser allegues that top level athletes makes him feel lesser so rankings should be prohibited.

ironman · 04-04-2005, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by martinguerre

Not a joke at all. And I don't give a flying fuck about pen colors, to be quite honest. Nor do i see why anyone else is. Gendered language does concern me.

To me "pussy" means coward, it doesn't matter if you're a boy or a girl, black or white, green or purple. Taking offense on simple things like this is exactly what makes us loose focus on what really matters.

martinguerre · 04-04-2005, 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Halx

Just so I'm clear on this... are you a pussy yourself and thus take offense with the term 'pussy' being applied to things you disagree with?

They're words. WORDS! That's only about 10% of communication, right? The words shouldn't matter. The meaning behind them should. In this case, the term "Pussification of America" means that we're all approaching life with oven mits on and it's ruining our culture.

And you're still hung up on WORDS!

No. I don't use the word pussy to identify myself.

In this case, words are really all we have. There is some graphical communication that might take place by avatar, but essentially the TFP is a word driven communication system. As such, words are important.

I said what i did because it's a gendered insult. It assumes that weakness, coddling, and immaturity are somehow related to women, and women's sexuality. I don't think that's accurate. And i think it sends the wrong message to the women of this community.

I'm not particularly outraged at this, but i don't approve of it either. I've put my two cents in, and that's all i wanted to do.

Halx · 04-04-2005, 02:40 PM

Martin, just how we all know "gay" didn't start out meaning "homosexual" nor was it ever used negatively - "pussy" didn't start out associated with females. I've always been an advocate of the notion that if you cannot take words in their correct context, then you're probably not worth the breath it takes to explain their meaning.

With that said, getting bent over a word reminds me of a happlessly irreverent quote from Full Metal Jacket. "If I'm gonna get my balls blown off for a word, my word is poontang."

It shines light on the weight that is given to words, as if the word by itself is power. In relation to the quote, take "Freedom" for an example. The mere mention of it is sure to get any redneck NRA local militia member to puff out his chest.

You've gotta be smarter than that. You've gotta be more fluid and free-thinking than that. Being affected by a single word is submitting to the will of whoever would speak it. In my mind, that's too much power to give ANYONE over me.

People who are affected by words and words alone are the weak-minded hyper-reactive nitwits that we're trying to save our culture from.

Sage · 04-04-2005, 03:16 PM

Yay for saving the culture from weak-minderd hyper-reactive nitwits!

However, I think that you need to think up something more constructive than pussy to insult someone... like weak-minded hyper reactive nitwit! Point for Hal!

Anyway, you know what? If you suck at school, you need to have some constructive criticisim towards what you did wrong. I agree with the satement that said "if PIECE OF SHIT was written in green, I'd be upset" I do think that the color red causes a reaction in some people when they see it, so if you were going to be progressive in your teaching methods (and I'm all for progressing away from this NCLB crap) then grading in another color (I like the purple) might be a good idea. However, I think that grades on the top of the paper should be in red! That's your grade, it's what you earned, if it's good you should see it and react strongly to it, and if it's really bad, then you should be jarred into wanting to do better.

I'm all for the abandoning of this "oh, let's not hurt poor Johnnie's feelings cause he can't read" in favor for "OK, Jonnie, you're going to have to go to this different classroom because our previous methods of teaching you how to read were inadequate." I was always getting into trouble in class when I was young because the class progressed at the pace of the slowest kid, and I got bored really, really fast. I think that might have to do with some of the ADD that gets thrown around nowadays.

Down with the ineffectual bourgeoise public school system! Who gives a damn about the pen color when kids can't read!!

martinguerre · 04-04-2005, 03:20 PM

start out meaning and are now associated with are two different things. frankly, i don't know the etymological roots of the word pussy. but i don't think it's relevant. the word currently carries that meaning. faggot can mean match or cigarette, but that doesn't mean it's a commonly accepted part of civilized discourse.

again, i think you're overestimating my reaction here. i'm not in a position to tell you or anyone else on this board not to use a word. what i am communicating is that i do not respect your decision to use that word. now, if that makes me a hyper reactive nitwit, i'm sorry to hear that. but, really...i think this is as simple a matter of your choice to say something, and my choice to disagree.

Sweetpea · 04-04-2005, 03:57 PM

(I think the title could have been different. I think that jorgelito choose it to be a reactive title to gain attention)

What is NOT being recognized in this thread is that the teachers are trying their best (in this case, by not using the red color) to overcome the fact that kids are not getting the validation/love/support they need in their home environment. Kids have become reactive in the education environment because most no longer have the stability they need in their homes.
It's not the red color that is stressing the kids, but the sheer fact that American society has made competition the only means by which people in our society, children or not, can get validation . . . people in our society are seen as successful only if they are winners, or somehow clawed their way to the 'top.'
What the teachers should be asking themselves is really WHY these kids are reacting to the 'stressful' color of red. It really does appear, as usual, that a Band-Aid is being placed on a larger issue.
As to Americans being 'pussies' or raising their children to be as such . . . last i checked, sentiments of being American in our world community is that we are cocky, arrogant and righteous . . .

Sweetpea

Halx · 04-04-2005, 04:39 PM

Martin, from there, it's a simple matter of being whiney enough to try to make people change. It all starts with being affected, as you are.

meembo · 04-04-2005, 04:40 PM

This is a thread about how we see things others care about as ridiculous. Is anyone's mind changed after reading this thread? Mine isn't, and isn't likely to be any time soon either. My son in 5th grade is about to have the big "Human Development" (read: SEX) talk in class, and it's difficult for me to accept how many other parents have such serious and heartfelt problems with the words "penis" and "vagina".

Are they pussies? Do they suffer from disease? Investigation and education is the way to build bridges to understanding between any two ideas, not ridicule.

I know people my age ashamed of papers they received as children with red ink on them -- the red was never good news. I think the color is a ridiculous fixation as well, but it's the meaning to others (i.e., failure) that carries all of the meaning that is misunderstood, not the color red (which is a temporary and unfortunate stand-in for real dialogue about the real problem).

Who here hasn't experienced a dozen of these disagreements in the last year?

liquidlight · 04-04-2005, 04:41 PM

Once again, a group of inept parents that are incapable of communicating with or parenting their children are blaming a completely innocuous inanimate object in an effort to make themselves feel better at their utter failure in raising their children.

Would this be an issue if their kids weren't flunking out of school because the parents were too busy trying to blame someone else for their screwups to help these children with their homework? You know this wasn't coming from the parents of the kids that brought home A's, this is from the people that their kids brought home papers where at least every other question was wrong.

I went through school, if I got a wrong answer it got marked that way, heaven forbid I get off my ass and study so that I didn't get the wrong answer, though studying may not be an option in modern society, these kids have completely full schedules what with their rigid dosing regimens, their ridiculous therapy sessions, and their sensitivity awareness classes, who has time for silly things like homework and studying?!

meembo · 04-04-2005, 04:41 PM

I agree that "pussy" is a simple-minded insult destined to make you more misunderstood thatn understood.

filtherton · 04-04-2005, 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Halx

Martin, just how we all know "gay" didn't start out meaning "homosexual" nor was it ever used negatively - "pussy" didn't start out associated with females. I've always been an advocate of the notion that if you cannot take words in their correct context, then you're probably not worth the breath it takes to explain their meaning.

With that said, getting bent over a word reminds me of a happlessly irreverent quote from Full Metal Jacket. "If I'm gonna get my balls blown off for a word, my word is poontang."

It shines light on the weight that is given to words, as if the word by itself is power. In relation to the quote, take "Freedom" for an example. The mere mention of it is sure to get any redneck NRA local militia member to puff out his chest.

You've gotta be smarter than that. You've gotta be more fluid and free-thinking than that. Being affected by a single word is submitting to the will of whoever would speak it. In my mind, that's too much power to give ANYONE over me.

People who are affected by words and words alone are the weak-minded hyper-reactive nitwits that we're trying to save our culture from.

Words and how they are interpreted play a vital role in how one'e message is percieved, obviously. I think it stands to reason that when one is attempting to persuade another on a certain matter, one should use words that don't offend the audience. I don't really get offended by words that other people use. I do try and pay more attention to the words i use because generally words like pussy, bitch, faggot, nigger, etc convey more about the person using them than they do about any particular message.

The idea that anything is "just a word" seems to me to be a tad naive. A gun is not just a "lump of metal". That being said, choosing to get offended by someone else's inability to communicate without alluding to gender stereotypes seems rather bush league to me.

HAL3000 · 04-04-2005, 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Halx

Martin, just how we all know "gay" didn't start out meaning "homosexual" nor was it ever used negatively - "pussy" didn't start out associated with females. I've always been an advocate of the notion that if you cannot take words in their correct context, then you're probably not worth the breath it takes to explain their meaning.

With that said, getting bent over a word reminds me of a happlessly irreverent quote from Full Metal Jacket. "If I'm gonna get my balls blown off for a word, my word is poontang."

It shines light on the weight that is given to words, as if the word by itself is power. In relation to the quote, take "Freedom" for an example. The mere mention of it is sure to get any redneck NRA local militia member to puff out his chest.

You've gotta be smarter than that. You've gotta be more fluid and free-thinking than that. Being affected by a single word is submitting to the will of whoever would speak it. In my mind, that's too much power to give ANYONE over me.

People who are affected by words and words alone are the weak-minded hyper-reactive nitwits that we're trying to save our culture from.

Quote:

Originally Posted by filtherton

Words and how they are interpreted play a vital role in how one'e message is percieved, obviously. I think it stands to reason that when one is attempting to persuade another on a certain matter, one should use words that don't offend the audience. I don't really get offended by words that other people use. I do try and pay more attention to the words i use because generally words like pussy, bitch, faggot, nigger, etc convey more about the person using them than they do about any particular message.

The idea that anything is "just a word" seems to me to be a tad naive. A gun is not just a "lump of metal". That being said, choosing to get offended by someone else's inability to communicate without alluding to gender stereotypes seems rather bush league to me.

Halx, while I agree with you whole heartedly in theory, filtheron has made an excellent point. A word is just a word after all... but the complexities of human communication are not quite that simple.

Mojo_PeiPei · 04-04-2005, 05:51 PM

Nobody is being called a pussy, the point is society and the world in general is becoming pussified.

04-04-2005, 12:40 AM	#1 (permalink)
jorgelito All important elusive independent swing voter... Location: People's Republic of KKKalifornia	More Proof of "Pussification of America" Here's some more proof of MojoPeiPei's coined phrase, "Pussification of America". http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...us/no_more_red I am stronlgy opposed to this type of "coddling". I believe we are sending the kids the wrong message and making them soft. The parent's need to parent and support the teachers. I am surprised that anyone would still want to be a teacher after all the sh*t we out them through. This type of thinking is similar to banning dodge ball, changing the rules of competition so "everyone's a winner" etc. Now I am not advocating abuse or "boot camp" but c'mon, a little reality and common sense please. We need to bring personal responsibility and accountablility back. Cut the kids more slack or hell no, discipline and work ethic? Your thoughts?

04-04-2005, 06:38 AM	#7 (permalink)
martinguerre whosoever Location: New England	anyone ever stop to think that using the word pussy as an insult may not be the most enlightened way of dealing with something you disagree with? __________________ For God so loved creation, that God sent God's only Son that whosoever believed should not perish, but have everlasting life. -John 3:16

04-04-2005, 07:11 AM	#8 (permalink)
Mojo_PeiPei Kiss of Death Location: Perpetual wind and sorrow	Saying that this is lending to the pussification of America is just what we need. I'm not about coddling people, especially when they are being soft ass mamby pamby pussies. It's about conveying a point, why would I not call a spade a spade? I might offend them, therefore I shouldn't? That only furthers my point that America is become a bunch of pussy ass bitches, we don't need to always need to act all "enlightened", I would rather take this sucker out of the park and not beat around the Bush. Forget my harsh words but to curb this disease on America people need to realize how retarded they are acting. So let's see, we have schools abandoning honor rolls because the morons feel bad about themselves because they are not on it, you have teachers putting four chairs for three people in musical chairs, and now we are banning the color red as it has become "symbolic of negativity". These are probably the parents that don't let their kids play with toy guns, or play cowboys and indians because it's politically incorrect. __________________ To win a war you must serve no master but your ambition. Last edited by Mojo_PeiPei; 04-04-2005 at 07:16 AM..

04-04-2005, 07:19 AM	#10 (permalink)
asaris Mad Philosopher Location: Washington, DC	In defense of not using red ink, I learned in my pedagogy course that studies have been done (what haven't studies been done on?) that have seemed to indicate that using red is less effective as a teaching tool than using some other color. So it's not just being touchy-feely, there are reasons why teachers might not use red to grade papers/tests. Unfortunately, I don't have a link to the studies. __________________ "Die Deutschen meinen, daß die Kraft sich in Härte und Grausamkeit offenbaren müsse, sie unterwerfen sich dann gerne und mit Bewunderung:[...]. Daß es Kraft giebt in der Milde und Stille, das glauben sie nicht leicht." "The Germans believe that power must reveal itself in hardness and cruelty and then submit themselves gladly and with admiration[...]. They do not believe readily that there is power in meekness and calm." -- Friedrich Nietzsche

04-04-2005, 07:39 AM	#13 (permalink)
Mojo_PeiPei Kiss of Death Location: Perpetual wind and sorrow	Haha, my name and compassion in the same sentence, I think that's a first here, thanks man, that made my day. At any rate I can see what you are saying, but the bottom line is I'm not calling people pussies per say, I'm saying there is a disease sweeping this country, said disease is the pussification of America. __________________ To win a war you must serve no master but your ambition.

04-04-2005, 12:45 AM	#2 (permalink)
john_713 Upright Location: United Kingdom	That is just insane! Surely you have to ask why the teachers chose to use red in the first place....it stands out and makes the errors clear. I personallally used to do all my work in black or blue. It wouldn't be easy to distinguish between my work and the teacher's corrections if they were the same colour. If the work is wrong then it's wrong! There is no point in trying to disguise that fact by doing it in a different colour.

04-04-2005, 01:06 AM	#3 (permalink)
jorgelito All important elusive independent swing voter... Location: People's Republic of KKKalifornia	I personally like to see my "A's" in bold red at the top.

04-04-2005, 05:26 AM	#5 (permalink)
frogza Registered User Location: Right Here	Give me a break! Do these people not have anything else to worry about? I'd gladly donate some of my problems to help them.

04-04-2005, 06:01 AM	#6 (permalink)
zen_tom Guest	I really don't care what colour teachers mark their students grades in. What amazes me is that someone went to the length of writing an article about this. It must have been a quiet week in the office.

04-04-2005, 07:17 AM	#9 (permalink)
zen_tom Guest	Your harsh words make you sound stupid and ignorant (please excuse my harsh words) "We" are not banning anything. A bunch of teachers decided to change their stationary, and someone thought they'd write (a rather boring) article about it.

04-04-2005, 07:32 AM	#12 (permalink)
zen_tom Guest	You can tell someone they are acting foolishly without using the word pussy, moron and asshole. Resorting to words like these make you sound ignorant. (I'm sure you're not - in fact I know you often make well informed responses that show intelligence and compassion - it's just difficult to take them as seriously if they use anatomical swear-words.)

04-04-2005, 08:34 AM	#14 (permalink)
biznatch Junkie Location: France	yes indeed. One of the problems of the american system of education is the teachers all seem to wanna be your friends.. "aw, sweetie, you got a D..that's not bad. Its a lot better than an F!! And F is for Fantastic!" ok exagerrating, but I have witnessed a lot of this positive bullshit. everybody is special to them...they just can't accept that some students aren't as good as others...its biological, some people just have it easier in school than others. Now, if they go as far as saying that red is too negative, then I'm losing hope. I don't think it has to do with America in general.. just some parts of society, the same that always want to be politically correct(when you can't always stay politically correct). __________________ Check it out: The Open Source/Freeware/Gratis Software Thread

04-04-2005, 08:37 AM	#15 (permalink)
THGL Psycho Location: Louisville, KY	That makes me so mad, I'm seeing... purple?

04-04-2005, 10:04 AM	#18 (permalink)
HAL3000 Upright	Not sure what to even say here. We could talk this to death... basic point is that we've lost sight of the forest for the trees. Sad really, because our kids are paying the price.

04-04-2005, 10:10 AM	#19 (permalink)
streak_56 who ever said streaking was a bad thing? Location: Calgary	So... since grading in red meant that it was stressful for me.... I could sue the government for putting me into an umcomfortable position. Oh wait... that would just make me as stupid as them. This is just idiotic. As was said before, its not the colour of the pen that counts, its the quality of the teaching. Needless to say... red= crappy grade isn't a big issue. I had one paper in College that was all marked up in red, but I got an A- on the paper. Its just people taking things way out of proportion.

04-04-2005, 10:21 AM	#20 (permalink)
kutulu Junkie	This really isn't something to get worked up about. RE: Dodgeball Even though I enjoyed that it is a cruel game. There is no need for the PE teacher to provide a forum for cruelty.

04-04-2005, 10:59 AM	#21 (permalink)
Bacchanal Laid back Location: Jayhawkland	What I don't get more than anything is that if red has been used for so long, because it does stand out so much, are these parents saying that they didn't receive the best education they could've, or that they were enraged as children because of the red ink? This makes no sense to me at all.

04-04-2005, 01:48 PM	#25 (permalink)
Halx Please touch this. Owner/Admin Location: Manhattan	Just so I'm clear on this... are you a pussy yourself and thus take offense with the term 'pussy' being applied to things you disagree with? They're words. WORDS! That's only about 10% of communication, right? The words shouldn't matter. The meaning behind them should. In this case, the term "Pussification of America" means that we're all approaching life with oven mits on and it's ruining our culture. And you're still hung up on WORDS! __________________ You have found this post informative. -The Administrator [Don't Feed The Animals]

04-04-2005, 01:51 PM	#26 (permalink)
lindseylatch Addict Location: Seattle, WA	mwahahahah! How about we teach our kids to READ the comments, instead of reacting to a color...I mean, if it says "GOOD JOB!" in red, I'd be excited. If it says "PIECE OF SHIT!" in green, I'd be upset. I don't go into a deep depression just cause there's some red ink on the page. Fuck, I have a little more basis for my self-worth than how many comments a teacher put on my paper I cranked out the night before it was due. I can see why the school gave in though. they don't give a flying fuck what colors the teachers use, and if it makes the parents happy, it's no sweat off their back. All these parents are just afraid the teachers are commies...that's the real reason they don't like red. McArthy-ism is back!!!!! Didn't mean to Bogart your term there Martin, I just think "flying fuck" sounds nice... __________________ "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities" "If God did not exist, it would be necessary to invent him." "It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong." -Voltaire

04-04-2005, 02:15 PM	#27 (permalink)
ironman Smithers, release the hounds Location: Guatemala, Guatemala	This kind of stuff is making mediocrity the rule of thumb in our society. It won't be long till some loser allegues that top level athletes makes him feel lesser so rankings should be prohibited. __________________ If I agreed with you we´d both be wrong

04-04-2005, 02:40 PM	#30 (permalink)
Halx Please touch this. Owner/Admin Location: Manhattan	Martin, just how we all know "gay" didn't start out meaning "homosexual" nor was it ever used negatively - "pussy" didn't start out associated with females. I've always been an advocate of the notion that if you cannot take words in their correct context, then you're probably not worth the breath it takes to explain their meaning. With that said, getting bent over a word reminds me of a happlessly irreverent quote from Full Metal Jacket. "If I'm gonna get my balls blown off for a word, my word is poontang." It shines light on the weight that is given to words, as if the word by itself is power. In relation to the quote, take "Freedom" for an example. The mere mention of it is sure to get any redneck NRA local militia member to puff out his chest. You've gotta be smarter than that. You've gotta be more fluid and free-thinking than that. Being affected by a single word is submitting to the will of whoever would speak it. In my mind, that's too much power to give ANYONE over me. People who are affected by words and words alone are the weak-minded hyper-reactive nitwits that we're trying to save our culture from. __________________ You have found this post informative. -The Administrator [Don't Feed The Animals]

04-04-2005, 03:16 PM	#31 (permalink)
Sage hoarding all the big girl panties since 2005 Location: North side	Yay for saving the culture from weak-minderd hyper-reactive nitwits! However, I think that you need to think up something more constructive than pussy to insult someone... like weak-minded hyper reactive nitwit! Point for Hal! Anyway, you know what? If you suck at school, you need to have some constructive criticisim towards what you did wrong. I agree with the satement that said "if PIECE OF SHIT was written in green, I'd be upset" I do think that the color red causes a reaction in some people when they see it, so if you were going to be progressive in your teaching methods (and I'm all for progressing away from this NCLB crap) then grading in another color (I like the purple) might be a good idea. However, I think that grades on the top of the paper should be in red! That's your grade, it's what you earned, if it's good you should see it and react strongly to it, and if it's really bad, then you should be jarred into wanting to do better. I'm all for the abandoning of this "oh, let's not hurt poor Johnnie's feelings cause he can't read" in favor for "OK, Jonnie, you're going to have to go to this different classroom because our previous methods of teaching you how to read were inadequate." I was always getting into trouble in class when I was young because the class progressed at the pace of the slowest kid, and I got bored really, really fast. I think that might have to do with some of the ADD that gets thrown around nowadays. Down with the ineffectual bourgeoise public school system! Who gives a damn about the pen color when kids can't read!! __________________ Sage knows our mythic history, King Arthur's and Sir Caradoc's She answers hard acrostics, has a pretty taste for paradox She quotes in elegiacs all the crimes of Heliogabalus In conics she can floor peculiarities parabolous -C'hi

04-04-2005, 03:20 PM	#32 (permalink)
martinguerre whosoever Location: New England	start out meaning and are now associated with are two different things. frankly, i don't know the etymological roots of the word pussy. but i don't think it's relevant. the word currently carries that meaning. faggot can mean match or cigarette, but that doesn't mean it's a commonly accepted part of civilized discourse. again, i think you're overestimating my reaction here. i'm not in a position to tell you or anyone else on this board not to use a word. what i am communicating is that i do not respect your decision to use that word. now, if that makes me a hyper reactive nitwit, i'm sorry to hear that. but, really...i think this is as simple a matter of your choice to say something, and my choice to disagree. __________________ For God so loved creation, that God sent God's only Son that whosoever believed should not perish, but have everlasting life. -John 3:16 Last edited by martinguerre; 04-04-2005 at 03:22 PM.. Reason: teh sp3ll1ng pwnd m3

04-04-2005, 03:57 PM	#33 (permalink)
Sweetpea Fade out Location: in love	(I think the title could have been different. I think that jorgelito choose it to be a reactive title to gain attention) What is NOT being recognized in this thread is that the teachers are trying their best (in this case, by not using the red color) to overcome the fact that kids are not getting the validation/love/support they need in their home environment. Kids have become reactive in the education environment because most no longer have the stability they need in their homes. It's not the red color that is stressing the kids, but the sheer fact that American society has made competition the only means by which people in our society, children or not, can get validation . . . people in our society are seen as successful only if they are winners, or somehow clawed their way to the 'top.' What the teachers should be asking themselves is really WHY these kids are reacting to the 'stressful' color of red. It really does appear, as usual, that a Band-Aid is being placed on a larger issue. As to Americans being 'pussies' or raising their children to be as such . . . last i checked, sentiments of being American in our world community is that we are cocky, arrogant and righteous . . . Sweetpea __________________ Having a Pet Will Change Your Life! Looking for a great pet?! Click Here! "I am the Type of Person Who Can Get Away With A lot, Simply Because I Don't Ask Permission for the Privilege of Being Myself"

04-04-2005, 04:39 PM	#34 (permalink)
Halx Please touch this. Owner/Admin Location: Manhattan	Martin, from there, it's a simple matter of being whiney enough to try to make people change. It all starts with being affected, as you are. __________________ You have found this post informative. -The Administrator [Don't Feed The Animals]

04-04-2005, 04:40 PM	#35 (permalink)
meembo Junkie Location: Connecticut	This is a thread about how we see things others care about as ridiculous. Is anyone's mind changed after reading this thread? Mine isn't, and isn't likely to be any time soon either. My son in 5th grade is about to have the big "Human Development" (read: SEX) talk in class, and it's difficult for me to accept how many other parents have such serious and heartfelt problems with the words "penis" and "vagina". Are they pussies? Do they suffer from disease? Investigation and education is the way to build bridges to understanding between any two ideas, not ridicule. I know people my age ashamed of papers they received as children with red ink on them -- the red was never good news. I think the color is a ridiculous fixation as well, but it's the meaning to others (i.e., failure) that carries all of the meaning that is misunderstood, not the color red (which is a temporary and unfortunate stand-in for real dialogue about the real problem). Who here hasn't experienced a dozen of these disagreements in the last year? __________________ less I say, smarter I am

04-04-2005, 04:41 PM	#36 (permalink)
liquidlight AHH! Custom Title!! Location: The twisted warpings of my brain.	Once again, a group of inept parents that are incapable of communicating with or parenting their children are blaming a completely innocuous inanimate object in an effort to make themselves feel better at their utter failure in raising their children. Would this be an issue if their kids weren't flunking out of school because the parents were too busy trying to blame someone else for their screwups to help these children with their homework? You know this wasn't coming from the parents of the kids that brought home A's, this is from the people that their kids brought home papers where at least every other question was wrong. I went through school, if I got a wrong answer it got marked that way, heaven forbid I get off my ass and study so that I didn't get the wrong answer, though studying may not be an option in modern society, these kids have completely full schedules what with their rigid dosing regimens, their ridiculous therapy sessions, and their sensitivity awareness classes, who has time for silly things like homework and studying?! __________________ Halfway to hell and picking up speed.

04-04-2005, 04:41 PM	#37 (permalink)
meembo Junkie Location: Connecticut	I agree that "pussy" is a simple-minded insult destined to make you more misunderstood thatn understood. __________________ less I say, smarter I am

04-04-2005, 05:51 PM	#40 (permalink)
Mojo_PeiPei Kiss of Death Location: Perpetual wind and sorrow	Nobody is being called a pussy, the point is society and the world in general is becoming pussified. __________________ To win a war you must serve no master but your ambition.