Mario has his 'shrooms, Det. Hill has blunts - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Cynthetiq · 03-18-2005, 07:49 AM

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Where a Puff of Marijuana Is the Ultimate Power-Up
By STEPHEN TOTILO
March 17, 2005
LINK

IN mid-2002, when the video game Narc was only six months into development, the most startling element in it may have been a barrel-throwing sumo wrestler. Or it may have been the inclusion of a villainous flamenco dancer named El Toro.

When the game is released for PlayStation 2 and the Xbox next week, however, the most arresting aspect will most likely be that players of Narc will - as part of the gameplay - be able to take drugs.

In an industry known for depicting violence, Narc's foray into substance abuse is a venture into a largely untracked frontier.

"This is something that nobody else has tackled," said Steve Allison, 37, chief of marketing for Narc's publisher, Midway.

In Narc, which is rated M, or Mature, for ages 17 and older, players control one of two narcotics officers, partners who were once separated after one became addicted to drugs.

The gameplay primarily involves arresting dealers, whose drugs can be confiscated and used.

A digital puff of marijuana, for example, temporarily slows the action of the game like a sports replay. Taking an Ecstasy tablet creates a mellow atmosphere that can pacify aggressive foes. The use of crack momentarily makes the player a marksman: a "crack" shot.

But using each drug also leads to addiction, which can lead to blackouts that cost the player inventory and to demotions or even expulsion from the police force, which halts progress in the game. In measured doses, the substances can make a tough challenge easier, but the makers of the game say it is possible to play without using the drugs at all.

"Should you be able to use them?" the game's producer, Wayne Cline, 31, said. "We decided, yeah, if they're part of the life of a cop. Just like in the movie 'Narc' and the movie 'Training Day,' sometimes they use."

More drug-related games are coming. Take Two Interactive, the publisher of the Grand Theft Auto series, recently announced a title to be released this year called Snow. According to a company news release, the game "will challenge players to oversee every aspect of the drug trade."

Vivendi Universal is planning to release a game based on the film "Scarface," which featured extensive cocaine use. The company has also announced Bulletproof, a game starring the likeness of 50 Cent, the rapper and acknowledged former crack dealer, in an adventure set upon "a bloody path through New York's drug underworld."

Representatives from Take Two and Vivendi declined to comment for this article. But game publishers increasingly seek to appeal to older players with provocative content. More than half of the regular players of home consoles like the PlayStation 2 and the Xbox are adults, according to the Electronics Software Association, a trade group. But while nearly 3,000 games have been cited for violence since 1994 by the Entertainment Software Rating Board, the independent organization that rates games, only 40 have been tagged for drug references or for use of drugs. Most refer to drugs only peripherally.

Patricia Vance, president of the rating board, said the trend was not so much about drugs as it was a move toward greater realism. Games increasingly include more character development and deeper stories, she said, which lead to a broader range of topics.

But for some, Narc's inclusion of drug use is a reality they feel is unwise for games to reflect. "Narc was a bad idea," said Michael Pachter, an analyst who follows Midway for Wedbush Morgan Securities. "Violence is embraced in our culture, which is why you see violence in video games. I don't believe society believes drugs are an appropriate thing. I think that alienates consumers."

Mr. Pachter said he had not seen the final version of the game but was familiar with its use of drugs as ability enhancers. He likened the game's drugs to steroids, and said that the recent scorn directed at baseball players suspected of using steroids indicated society's current mood about drugs.

Some gaming professionals think otherwise, suggesting that if movies, music and literature have drug-oriented cultural touchstones, so should games.

"If you can blow someone's head off, I don't see why you can't have drugs, as long as it fits the context," said Doug Walker, game designer for the Dutch developer Guerrilla Games.

One of the few prominent drug games in the last decade was Dope Wars, a text-based business simulator popular on computers and organizers in the late 1990's. In that game, drugs were the commodity for what critics described as essentially a business simulation.

Another significant depiction of drugs appeared in the original version of Narc (1988) for the arcade. That first Narc did not include drug use but rather a one-man war on drugs in which players machine-gunned hordes of pushers, clowns and villains who threw syringes. The game's designer, Eugene Jarvis, 50, was not involved in the new Narc, but he said he intended for the original to have an antidrug message. The game's slogan was, "Say No or Die."

Mr. Jarvis remembered a Midway lawyer being horrified at the project, calling the development effort a surrealistic nightmare.

Portrayal of drug use in games has picked up in recent years. Of the 40 games labeled for drug content, more than two dozen were released in the last three years. Last year's top-selling game, Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas, for example, was set amid the drug-related gang wars of early-90's Los Angeles.

In a twist for a series notorious for allowing antisocial and criminal behavior, the player-controlled lead character was programmed to reject the many offers he received to take drugs.

For designers, the issue of drugs in games has been less one of marketability than one of how to incorporate drugs into an actual game.

"It really was an interesting juggling act," said Mr. Cline, Narc's producer, discussing how Narc was conceived. His development team wanted drugs to be a prevalent feature, but Mr. Cline said they struggled to achieve balance, "not glorifying it, but handling it responsibly, but still making it fun."

Few games had allowed players to take drugs in the game, an option Mr. Cline's team was determined to pursue once they decided to jettison the sumo wrestler and the flamenco dancer and to abandon the idea of remaking the original Narc.

The developers drew inspiration from the classic video game idea of power-ups: bonus items that improve player abilities, like the mushrooms Mario and Luigi ate to grow larger in Super Mario Bros. in 1985. Power-ups were a video game staple, and some, like the adrenaline combat boosts in the 2000 game Perfect Dark, seemed to wink at the possibility of drugs.

"There's always something you can use to enhance or alter the player-character's abilities," Mr. Cline said. "We were the first game to call them pot and coke and crack."

The power-ups in Narc would have to exhibit negative side effects. An addiction meter would track drug use and lead to progress-dampening blackouts. "We started out with realistic debates," Mr. Cline said, on issues like whether marijuana is actually addictive. "But then we just decided we'll just make them all addictive."

Addictions would kick in at different levels. Crack addiction required two uses. Another drug would require six. To get clean, players would have to win a coordination challenge that involved steadying a moving icon while their character writhed in agony.

The challenge was to make these activities engaging as gameplay, something also faced by Mr. Walker, the designer of Guerrilla Games's ShellShock: Nam '67, which was released in 2004.

Mr. Walker's team had intended to present a realistically graphic depiction of the Vietnam War. The game allowed players to purchase ability-enhancing doses of the amphetamine Dexedrine and the relaxant temazepam, but the team found that a video game version of the effects of L.S.D. - distorted graphics and sound - made the game less fun to play. They relegated "psychedelic mode" to a hidden bonus rather than to a core aspect of the main game.

"There are only certain drugs that translate to gameplay use," said Alastair Burns, the project manager at Guerrilla Games. "We couldn't work a drug like heroin into ShellShock."

Mr. Cline agrees, and draws a distinction between what he thinks games can do with drugs, as compared with other creative forms. "Would you want to see a 'Requiem for a Dream' game?" he said, referring to the 2000 film about people struggling with drug abuse. "I don't think so. I don't see how that's enjoyable. Even if you're going to tackle difficult subjects like drugs or something like that, a game is still a game and it's got to be fun for people."

I don't think that kids need these diversions and demonstrations, but adults can pick and choose as they see fit. I think that the violence from video games blame trend may shift from video games promote violence to them promoting drug use.

As an adult I find it interesting that they will want to try to give someone an "idea" as to what the drug experience is ala Gonzo journalism's Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas or even Trainspotting.

the_marq · 03-18-2005, 08:36 AM

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"Narc was a bad idea," said Michael Pachter, an analyst who follows Midway for Wedbush Morgan Securities.

When it comes to arts and culture (and yes video games to apply) there is no such thing as a bad idea, or a good idea for that matter. There are just ideas and concepts that artists put forward and people can select and pick and choose from as they see fit.

So long as no one was forcibly administring drugs to people I don't see why this story about drugs in videogames is even newsworthy. Besides we've already seen this in Max Payne...3 years ago.

Glory's Sun · 03-18-2005, 08:46 AM

this is one game I'd play. I'd rather someone play this game and get an "idea" instead of actually going out and using the stuff. Now the argument arises that it could "make" people want to try the drugs IRL. That's about as moot as the violence argument though. I agree that adults should be allowed to do this but as far as kids go.. no they shouldn't get their hands on this.

cj2112 · 03-18-2005, 08:57 AM

I'll be buying this game, not because I gotta have it, but if I ever wanna play it I better buy it before Midway caves to public outcry and pulls it off the shelf....anybody remember skitchin for the genesis?

OFKU0 · 03-18-2005, 09:05 AM

Not to pass judgement, but rather than looking at the content of video games ( sex,violence, drug use) and deciding whether it is influencial in a harmful sense or not, I'd rather see the focus shifted as to why grown adults spend copious amounts playing video games. Again, and no offense to anyone but I'd like to see explanations as to why people spend so much time out of reality and in a fictional world.

And I've seen it first hand. Many moons ago I had a roommate who actually quit his job so that he could get to level 14 or something playing Super Mario. I moved because he didn't (couldn't) pay his share of rent, his girlfriend left him because he spent all day and night playing the game and eventually had to move back home since he had no where to live. When I moved, he was 27, or like I used to say, 27 going on 13.

Glory's Sun · 03-18-2005, 09:12 AM

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Originally Posted by OFKU0

Not to pass judgement, but rather than looking at the content of video games ( sex,violence, drug use) and deciding whether it is influencial in a harmful sense or not, I'd rather see the focus shifted as to why grown adults spend copious amounts playing video games. Again, and no offense to anyone but I'd like to see explanations as to why people spend so much time out of reality and in a fictional world.

And I've seen it first hand. Many moons ago I had a roommate who actually quit his job so that he could get to level 14 or something playing Super Mario. I moved because he didn't (couldn't) pay his share of rent, his girlfriend left him because he spent all day and night playing the game and eventually had to move back home since he had no where to live. When I moved, he was 27, or like I used to say, 27 going on 13.

I have no answer to that. I myself play very few video games and when I do, it's usually only about 20-30 minutes at a time (day). However, you could ask this question about anything that someone enjoys. Why do you spin records for hours on end? Why do you play basketball for hours? Why do you like working on your car? It's all relative..because that person enjoys that activity. Granted in your situation the fictional world was taken way too far. When it gets to be like that it's very unhealthy.

/now back to the topic

I don't think you'll see a major public outcry and a pulling from the shelves with this game. With GTA being so popular now (Killing cops, beating people that sort of thing) I think the public has become a little numb to the shock value of games. Sure we have the one group that constantly says video games and tv make people kill other people, but you will always have that group. If it does get pulled it's a shame because this is something I'd like to see come out, just to see what happens with it. How it affects gamers and society.

the_marq · 03-18-2005, 09:13 AM

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Originally Posted by OFKU0

....I'd rather see the focus shifted as to why grown adults spend copious amounts playing video games. Again, and no offense to anyone but I'd like to see explanations as to why people spend so much time out of reality and in a fictional world./snip

There are many kinds of "fictional worlds" that grown adults spend their time in. From movies to novels to obsessive TV watching and model airplanes and pornography... most people have diversions. Some people have obsessions. Video games are just the symptom in your old roommates case, not the disease.

Suave · 03-18-2005, 09:19 AM

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Originally Posted by the_marq

When it comes to arts and culture (and yes video games to apply) there is no such thing as a bad idea, or a good idea for that matter. There are just ideas and concepts that artists put forward and people can select and pick and choose from as they see fit.

So long as no one was forcibly administring drugs to people I don't see why this story about drugs in videogames is even newsworthy. Besides we've already seen this in Max Payne...3 years ago.

There is "bad" idea in the sense that it will not make any money for the companies producing and distributing it.

the_marq · 03-18-2005, 09:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Suave

There is "bad" idea in the sense that it will not make any money for the companies producing and distributing it.

Well that was exactly my point. If it sucks so bad that no one wants to interact with your art, then society will reject it and move on, barring the odd extreme case (IE: ET: The Atari Videogame).

For a video game to be taken off the shelves (or never put there in the first place) because it sucks is fine, to do the same becase some special interest group has their feelings hurt is asinine.

Maybe I should be less subtle next time

Bill O'Rights · 03-18-2005, 09:39 AM

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Originally Posted by the_marq

When it comes to arts and culture (and yes video games to apply)...

Video games as art and culture?

Maybe...but only in the most rudimentary of senses of the definition. I, myself, just don't see video games in that capacity.

OFKU0 · 03-18-2005, 09:47 AM

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Originally Posted by guccilvr

However, you could ask this question about anything that someone enjoys. Why do you spin records for hours on end? Why do you play basketball for hours? Why do you like working on your car? It's all relative..because that person enjoys that activity.

I agree but I assume my thoughts are as they are because I never played the games beyond 13 or 14 years old.

But I don't think listening to music, playing sports or working on a car are outside of the realm of reality. I believe those activities are productive to everyday life.

Sure people read books, go to movies etc. That is escaping reality. We all need that. Video games, and correct me if I am wrong, pit player against the game or other players for the final result to win. But even if one wins, in the grand scheme of things, what does it mean? Is it tangible to everyday life? Does that individual sense of achievement carry over to the real world? I'm asking because I don't know.

Maybe another thread should be devoted to these questions.

But if there is a market for these games given the content, so be it. People decide what their influences are, not the other way around.

the_marq · 03-18-2005, 09:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill O'Rights

Video games as art and culture?

Maybe...but only in the most rudimentary of senses of the definition. I, myself, just don't see video games in that capacity.

How can you say video games are not a form of art? Furthermore, how can you say they are not a part of our culture? To each his own I guess, suffice to say I disagree with you on this point.

kutulu · 03-18-2005, 10:13 AM

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Originally Posted by OFKU0

Sure people read books, go to movies etc. That is escaping reality. We all need that. Video games, and correct me if I am wrong, pit player against the game or other players for the final result to win. But even if one wins, in the grand scheme of things, what does it mean? Is it tangible to everyday life? Does that individual sense of achievement carry over to the real world? I'm asking because I don't know.

People are obsessed with sports. How does someone's favorite sports team winning affect that person's everyday life? Same with TV. People spend hours a day vegging out on the couch watching TV. Gaming is no different.

Coppertop · 03-18-2005, 11:08 AM

Fallout had drug use and addiction long before Max Payne. That was back in 1997 or so. And there are probably examples that predate Fallout.

The game isn't intended for children and shouldn't be played by them. Let's hope people are intelligent enough to understand that.

I think the example above of the person playing games all day and failing to make the rent is a symptom of the problem, not the cause. You could easily replace games with books, TV, drugs or anything else and have it affect your life when taken to the extreme.

Coppertop · 03-18-2005, 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill O'Rights

Video games as art and culture?

Maybe...but only in the most rudimentary of senses of the definition. I, myself, just don't see video games in that capacity.

Ever been to Japan?

omega2K4 · 03-18-2005, 12:45 PM

The game has some interesting concepts, but it IS running on the State of Emergency engine. So I think the environments will be pretty limited, unless it has been heavily modified.

I don't have a problem with the virtual usage of drugs (or ANY usage of drugs, legal or illegal), its not like the game is telling you to go out and buy and use drugs (which some stuck-up cunts will probably try to say it does say that). Its a game, its not real. It isn't a big deal, you can see worse shit on the nightly news or a wide variety of television shows and/or movies.

Suave · 03-18-2005, 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the_marq

Well that was exactly my point. If it sucks so bad that no one wants to interact with your art, then society will reject it and move on, barring the odd extreme case (IE: ET: The Atari Videogame).

For a video game to be taken off the shelves (or never put there in the first place) because it sucks is fine, to do the same becase some special interest group has their feelings hurt is asinine.

Maybe I should be less subtle next time

:P No, but the reason that guy said it was a "bad idea" was specifically because he believes there is no market for a game based on drug use. It had nothing to do with offending people.

ObieX · 03-18-2005, 08:56 PM

There's lots of fun games out there that have let you take drugs and kill cops, this is nothing new. In fact, in Postal 2, not only can you take drugs, kill cops, fight terrorists, chop/blow people's heads off with shovels/shotguns, work for a video game company, and live in a trailer - you can also beat up gary coleman, rob banks, play with strippers, get raped by rednecks (and made/dressed up as their gimp), send a herd of circus elephants into a rampage, light other people on fire, AND PEE ON THEM.

I highly recommend this game.

hosti|e · 03-18-2005, 10:57 PM

Ya postal 2 is fun. The way i look at it, they can rate the game whatever they want. When was the last time anyone under 18 had trouble getting hold of porn. Same goes with games, until they can be regulated properly why bother rating them at all?

mazagmot · 03-19-2005, 01:16 AM

The game rating system was adopted voluntarily by the video games industry as a proactive measure to avoid compulsory ratings and censorship from the government. It does what it was meant to do; government doesn't really reagulate the industry itself, although it does try to make sure that retailers follow the age guidelines set forth by the ratings, e.g. only allowing people 17+ to buy rated M games.

I see no problems with having drugs in games, as long as the games being produced are actually good. I hate seeing shock used as the main draw a game instead of gameplay or story.

Strange Famous · 03-19-2005, 01:36 AM

They only makes games like this for attention. More people will buy a poor game, cos it has a lot of hype behind it. Its pure capitalism, thats all.

03-18-2005, 09:05 AM	#5 (permalink)
OFKU0 Junk	Not to pass judgement, but rather than looking at the content of video games ( sex,violence, drug use) and deciding whether it is influencial in a harmful sense or not, I'd rather see the focus shifted as to why grown adults spend copious amounts playing video games. Again, and no offense to anyone but I'd like to see explanations as to why people spend so much time out of reality and in a fictional world. And I've seen it first hand. Many moons ago I had a roommate who actually quit his job so that he could get to level 14 or something playing Super Mario. I moved because he didn't (couldn't) pay his share of rent, his girlfriend left him because he spent all day and night playing the game and eventually had to move back home since he had no where to live. When I moved, he was 27, or like I used to say, 27 going on 13. __________________ " In Canada, you can tell the most blatant lie in a calm voice, and people will believe you over someone who's a little passionate about the truth." David Warren, Western Standard.

03-18-2005, 12:45 PM	#16 (permalink)
omega2K4 Natalie Portman is sexy. Location: The Outer Rim	The game has some interesting concepts, but it IS running on the State of Emergency engine. So I think the environments will be pretty limited, unless it has been heavily modified. I don't have a problem with the virtual usage of drugs (or ANY usage of drugs, legal or illegal), its not like the game is telling you to go out and buy and use drugs (which some stuck-up cunts will probably try to say it does say that). Its a game, its not real. It isn't a big deal, you can see worse shit on the nightly news or a wide variety of television shows and/or movies. __________________ "While the State exists there can be no freedom. When there is freedom there will be no State." - Vladimir Ilyich Lenin "Reason has always existed, but not always in a reasonable form."- Karl Marx

03-18-2005, 08:56 PM	#18 (permalink)
ObieX Pickles Location: Shirt and Pants (NJ)	There's lots of fun games out there that have let you take drugs and kill cops, this is nothing new. In fact, in Postal 2, not only can you take drugs, kill cops, fight terrorists, chop/blow people's heads off with shovels/shotguns, work for a video game company, and live in a trailer - you can also beat up gary coleman, rob banks, play with strippers, get raped by rednecks (and made/dressed up as their gimp), send a herd of circus elephants into a rampage, light other people on fire, AND PEE ON THEM. I highly recommend this game. __________________ We Must Dissent.

03-18-2005, 10:57 PM	#19 (permalink)
hosti\|e Tilted	Ya postal 2 is fun. The way i look at it, they can rate the game whatever they want. When was the last time anyone under 18 had trouble getting hold of porn. Same goes with games, until they can be regulated properly why bother rating them at all? __________________ New Zealander and proud

03-19-2005, 01:16 AM	#20 (permalink)
mazagmot Crazy Location: S. Korea	The game rating system was adopted voluntarily by the video games industry as a proactive measure to avoid compulsory ratings and censorship from the government. It does what it was meant to do; government doesn't really reagulate the industry itself, although it does try to make sure that retailers follow the age guidelines set forth by the ratings, e.g. only allowing people 17+ to buy rated M games. I see no problems with having drugs in games, as long as the games being produced are actually good. I hate seeing shock used as the main draw a game instead of gameplay or story. __________________ d^_^b Got my headphones on.

03-18-2005, 08:46 AM	#3 (permalink)
Glory's Sun Registered User	this is one game I'd play. I'd rather someone play this game and get an "idea" instead of actually going out and using the stuff. Now the argument arises that it could "make" people want to try the drugs IRL. That's about as moot as the violence argument though. I agree that adults should be allowed to do this but as far as kids go.. no they shouldn't get their hands on this.

03-18-2005, 08:57 AM	#4 (permalink)
cj2112 Unbelievable Location: Grants Pass OR	I'll be buying this game, not because I gotta have it, but if I ever wanna play it I better buy it before Midway caves to public outcry and pulls it off the shelf....anybody remember skitchin for the genesis?

03-18-2005, 11:08 AM	#14 (permalink)
Coppertop Getting Medieval on your ass Location: 13th century Europe	Fallout had drug use and addiction long before Max Payne. That was back in 1997 or so. And there are probably examples that predate Fallout. The game isn't intended for children and shouldn't be played by them. Let's hope people are intelligent enough to understand that. I think the example above of the person playing games all day and failing to make the rent is a symptom of the problem, not the cause. You could easily replace games with books, TV, drugs or anything else and have it affect your life when taken to the extreme.

03-19-2005, 01:36 AM	#21 (permalink)
Strange Famous follower of the child's crusade?	They only makes games like this for attention. More people will buy a poor game, cos it has a lot of hype behind it. Its pure capitalism, thats all. __________________ "Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate, for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain without being uncovered." The Gospel of Thomas