Police Setting up Prostitution stings - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

skinnymofo · 03-08-2005, 04:45 PM

So I have been watching the show COPS and they seem to take delight in setting people up for soliciting sex.
Now im mostly talking about the women officers dressing up and FLAGGING DOWN CARS to try and get the men to say they will pay for sex.
Now in this particular episode im watching, the guy did absolutely nothing wrong (in my eyes). She flagged him down -She laid the price down and She told him where to go. while i realize he would of gone through with it when he drove off he was busted and arrested.
So not only did she not get in his car, he went to the nearest gas station and had his hood open. he might not of even gone through with it for all everyone knows. Innocent until proven otherwise ya?

Anyway there really isnt a single forum i could have put this in so i stuck it here.
what is everyones opinion on this? I know others have seen such things or maybe even had them happen to them.
I think its entrapment.
Thoughts?

ScottKuma · 03-08-2005, 04:53 PM

Probably not entrapment - the guy DID what she asked.

However, I think that a good lawyer would probably get the guy off...depending on the jurisdiction. It seems shaky at best to assume that any male driving through the area wants a prostitute, no matter how much the area has a reputation.

Personally, I'd have driven off & not given it another thought.

Remember also that for every bust they show, probably 70-100 cars didn't bite.

Coppertop · 03-08-2005, 05:00 PM

I've always thought it strange how in this situation if money is not exchanged there is no "crime." But that's a whole different thread.

Charlatan · 03-08-2005, 05:00 PM

This is another example of a stupid law... Prostitution should be legalized and regulated.

insidious_machinae · 03-08-2005, 07:38 PM

This message has been deleted.

la petite moi · 03-08-2005, 08:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charlatan

This is another example of a stupid law... Prostitution should be legalized and regulated.

I completely and whole-heartedly agree.

Pragma · 03-08-2005, 09:02 PM

Entrapment is only entrapment if (a) the government in some fashion attempts to make you commit the crime, and (b) you aren't predisposed to the crime.

If the guy has a history of solicitation, he can't use entrapment as a defense - it just doesn't work that way. "Oh, well it's not my fault, she tried to trap me into paying for a prostitute, I didn't want to! What do you mean I've been arrested seven times for this same charge? Oops."

optik_nerve · 03-09-2005, 10:31 AM

All they wanted was some nice ass.

PredeconInferno · 03-09-2005, 01:40 PM

Well, if she FLAGGED the car down... maybe the guy was thinking, "maybe she needs some help" and pulled over... I know I would (hooker or not... female or not). If someone flagged me down, I woudl at least investigate. If the woman started soliciting sex, and laying down prices and all that jazz... I'd probably feel uncomfortable and just go with it until she shut up or tried to get in my car. If that happens, I'd just drive away... I don't want to offend anyone, but sex is not something random that doesn't mean something.

/shrug

MSD · 03-09-2005, 03:35 PM

Another crime that would be victimless if it were made legal and subject to even minimal regulatiom. Another area in which the government interferes when it has no right whatsoever to do so.

eribrav · 03-09-2005, 04:57 PM

Last I checked, there are many areas of the country that have problems with real, actual, serious crimes like robberies, assaults, murders etc. Why are police wasting time with a farce like this? I agree completely that prostitution should be legalized. But even if it isn't there is absolutely no good reason for these silly "stings". Either go find real criminals or spend more time at the donut shop, but don't arrest people for this trumped up crap then show it on TV to satisfy the puritans in this country.

mazagmot · 03-10-2005, 05:45 AM

The justification for prostitution stings is because, since they've outlawed prostitution, the neighborhoods where it happens tend to be high crime neighborhoods. As prostitution migrates from one neighborhood to another, the crime follows.

raeanna74 · 03-10-2005, 06:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mazagmot

As prostitution migrates from one neighborhood to another, the crime follows.

Or is it the other way around?? The prostitutes may feel more comfortable around people who are afraid to call the cops down on themselves so obviously won't call the cops on a prostitute.

I don't think these things are laid out fairly. I still have to laugh at the stupidity of these guys who are so desperate as to pick up a prostitute they've never heard of before. I'm always a little surprised that the cops can get away with it in these areas. I've heard that some prostitutes are territorial and if the guys aren't aware that this woman is a cop then why would another prostitute not be willing to approach her and challege her?

If this were a real crime I would consider the women or their pimps (especially those that control the women) are the criminals. I'd rather get rid of those men who control more than one hooker and make their lives a hole they can never escape from. I suspect that legalization of prostitution would entail regulation of "employee" rights and these women would be treated better and it would be easier for them to make a choice to do ANYTHING else besides sell themselves.

I agree the cops have many other choices for hunting down crime. I think this is just an easy catch (only takes a couple days probably to catch a guy who falls for it) and it probably boosts their moral a little. Their presence and the show of an arrest in a high crime neighborhood may cut down on the crime present for the time the cops are there and a few days afterwards I imagine. I know if I was up to no good and the cops were active in my neighborhood I would be laying low the while that they were there and for a while afterwards. Maybe this is part of their thinking when they do these kind of stings.

braisler · 03-10-2005, 06:19 AM

Not to get off topic too much, but I saw something else that I thought was borderline entrapment on that same TV show COPS the other night. The police where staking out a lower income neighborhood late at night. They were putting a nice, new, shiny bike leaning unlocked against a pole. When some unsuspecting teenager comes along and sees this bike and decides to go for a ride, they pounced on him, tackled him to the ground and put him in cuffs. I don't know whether they actually tried to arrest him or not, but they did search him roughly and tell him that he had broken a law by stealing that bike. "He knew the bike wasn't his, didn't he?" Cripes! When you leave an unlocked bike leaning up against a building, likely it isn't going to be there when you get back. What's next. Are they going to drop a $20 bill on the ground on the sidewalk of a busy street and arrest the first person who picks it up? "You knew that $20 wasn't yours, didn't you?"

Cops are too often motivated by the wrong interests. Or we, the people, are too naive when it comes to the true role of the police in our society. They aren't here to protect and serve us.

squirrelyburt · 03-10-2005, 06:42 AM

I have two points to make on this, first, COPS is a TERRIBlE place to learn about law enforcement. Most of what they do is acting for the camera, and I often find myself disagreeing strongly from a professional standpoint on what the officers do. They act more like cowboys than they do professional officers. Remember, they put the most lively stuff they tape on the shows. Point 2- Prostitution itself is a victimless crime, but there are numerous crimes, mostly violent, that make victims of primarily the prostitutes, and to a lesser degree, the johns.

dksuddeth · 03-10-2005, 07:22 AM

to my knowledge, in any sting like this, the 'john' must first initiate paying. If the undercover initiates price negotiation then that is entrapment. if thats wrong, someone please correct.

skinnymofo · 03-10-2005, 08:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by braisler

Not to get off topic too much, but I saw something else that I thought was borderline entrapment on that same TV show COPS the other night. The police where staking out a lower income neighborhood late at night. They were putting a nice, new, shiny bike leaning unlocked against a pole. When some unsuspecting teenager comes along and sees this bike and decides to go for a ride, they pounced on him, tackled him to the ground and put him in cuffs. I don't know whether they actually tried to arrest him or not, but they did search him roughly and tell him that he had broken a law by stealing that bike. "He knew the bike wasn't his, didn't he?" Cripes! When you leave an unlocked bike leaning up against a building, likely it isn't going to be there when you get back. What's next. Are they going to drop a $20 bill on the ground on the sidewalk of a busy street and arrest the first person who picks it up? "You knew that $20 wasn't yours, didn't you?"

Cops are too often motivated by the wrong interests. Or we, the people, are too naive when it comes to the true role of the police in our society. They aren't here to protect and serve us.

heh i was just about to add that to this thread.
they got something like a person every 15minutes

william · 03-11-2005, 05:36 PM

It's not entrapment, because the offender knows he (she) is breaking the law. Finding a $20 bill on the ground is luck. Not the same thing. Another anology of entrapment (NOT) is an undercover cop sitting next to you at a red light, revving his engine. Light goes green, and you take off. He pulls up behind you w/lights flashing. You knew it was wrong to speed, but you chose to do it. It becomes entrapment when you [U]have knowledge of your actions. A john knows he's breaking the law by soliciting a prostitute. Red-light racer knows he's breaking the law by taking off and moving at 60 in a 35.

MSD · 03-12-2005, 05:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by william

It's not entrapment, because the offender knows he (she) is breaking the law. Finding a $20 bill on the ground is luck. Not the same thing. Another anology of entrapment (NOT) is an undercover cop sitting next to you at a red light, revving his engine. Light goes green, and you take off. He pulls up behind you w/lights flashing. You knew it was wrong to speed, but you chose to do it. It becomes entrapment when you [U]have knowledge of your actions. A john knows he's breaking the law by soliciting a prostitute. Red-light racer knows he's breaking the law by taking off and moving at 60 in a 35.

It's entrapment if a cop incites an illegal action that you would not otherwise have done.

jhkayakr · 03-12-2005, 05:32 AM

It's such a terrible waste of time and money.

mazagmot · 03-12-2005, 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jhkayakr

It's such a terrible waste of time and money.

Which, the prostitution, or the stings? :-P

sob · 03-14-2005, 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by braisler

Not to get off topic too much, but I saw something else that I thought was borderline entrapment on that same TV show COPS the other night. The police where staking out a lower income neighborhood late at night. They were putting a nice, new, shiny bike leaning unlocked against a pole. When some unsuspecting teenager comes along and sees this bike and decides to go for a ride, they pounced on him, tackled him to the ground and put him in cuffs. I don't know whether they actually tried to arrest him or not, but they did search him roughly and tell him that he had broken a law by stealing that bike. "He knew the bike wasn't his, didn't he?" Cripes! When you leave an unlocked bike leaning up against a building, likely it isn't going to be there when you get back. What's next. Are they going to drop a $20 bill on the ground on the sidewalk of a busy street and arrest the first person who picks it up? "You knew that $20 wasn't yours, didn't you?"

Cops are too often motivated by the wrong interests. Or we, the people, are too naive when it comes to the true role of the police in our society. They aren't here to protect and serve us.

I couldn't disagree more with your post. "Sees this bike and decides to go for a ride," my ass. What if I leave my bike in my front yard? Does that mean it's open season for anybody who'd like to "go for a ride?"

/threadjack off

Yes, prostitution stings are idiotic. In my city, vice cops regularly visit strip joints to try to make sure there's no "inappropriate touching." Even the city councilwoman who represents that district has publicly stated that there has never been a complaint registered against the strip joints.

So the argument that prostitution stings are done to reduce other kinds of crime doesn't ring true to me. More likely, they're done as a source of revenue for the city. Especially since they can confiscate the john's car, which I personally feel is a gross travesty, because it makes the total "fine" exorbitant.

/soapbox dismount

braisler · 03-15-2005, 05:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by william

It's not entrapment, because the offender knows he (she) is breaking the law. Finding a $20 bill on the ground is luck. Not the same thing. Another anology of entrapment (NOT) is an undercover cop sitting next to you at a red light, revving his engine. Light goes green, and you take off. He pulls up behind you w/lights flashing. You knew it was wrong to speed, but you chose to do it. It becomes entrapment when you [U]have knowledge of your actions. A john knows he's breaking the law by soliciting a prostitute. Red-light racer knows he's breaking the law by taking off and moving at 60 in a 35.

I agree with MrSelfDestruct here. Entrapment is when a cop incites you to do something illegal that you would not normally do. In your example of "not" entrapment I could easily make the argument that the undercover cop revving his engine next to me had made me concerned for my personal safety or that of my wife. Hence my acceleration away from the light was an attempt to evade an aggressive driver and preserve my life and property.

Similarly, the undercover female cop who offers you a BJ for $5 is inciting you to do something illegal. I agree that the bike "sting" I referred to above is a grey area of entrapment. The youth could have as easily left the bike where it was. I still think that it is a shitty use of public funds and police time.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sob

I couldn't disagree more with your post. "Sees this bike and decides to go for a ride," my ass. What if I leave my bike in my front yard? Does that mean it's open season for anybody who'd like to "go for a ride?"

/threadjack off

If you live in a lower income neighborhood and you leave your bike, not in the front yard, but leaning against the concrete pole of a deserted building at 2 AM, do you think that it would be there when you get back? Not that it should be that way, but the reality is that a bike wouldn't stick around for long. There isn't any proof that the kid was stealing the bike. Maybe he was going to ride it to the police station to turn it in.

I guess you would have had to see the show to see how predatory the cops were being. It was like they were fishing for these poor kids and the bike was the bait. Then they would pounce on them in some cases physically tackling them to the ground. It was terrible.

I would rather see my tax money being spent to provide bikes to kids and adults in low income areas. As a further aside, I have seen programs like that put into place that really helped some people.

Samalie · 03-15-2005, 07:36 AM

Prostitution Stings are a waste of police resources as far as I'm concerned.

You will NEVER eliminate prostitution. Won't ever happen. May as well regulate it properly, keep it "clean" and out of residential neighborhoods.

I've always had a problem with prostitution laws anyway. You find a girl, buy her dinner & a movie & such, drop $200 on the night, and fuck her brains out at the end of the night....legal dating. Skip the middleman and just give her the $200 - its a crime. Bullshit to me

Sammy

TheShadow · 03-15-2005, 06:30 PM

I think the best way to consider the issue of prostitution would be to look at the pros and cons of its legalization. Personally, I can't see anything worse, per say, happening by having the practice legalized and regulated. Can anyone, other than the bullshit issue of 'maintaining dignity in society'? I mean things like actual concrete problems occuring from the legalization of prostitution.

On another note...

Quote:

Originally Posted by nwlinkvxd

I feel there are significantly larger threats to society than people driving cars too fast.

From a quick search, I found statistics showing that an average of 114 people die each day in car crashes in the U.S. - speed is often the reason for these crashes [along with drunk drivers and the like]. I wouldn't exactly consider that a minor issue. In fact, I'd say that speeding is a major concern!

ironmaiden7o7 · 03-15-2005, 06:39 PM

Poor guy. I've seen many shows like this where the men would only pull over and listen to the women and then get arrested. I think it's totally unfair. They have to remember that these men are weak and need only a reason to pull over when a woman flags them down. No matter how much they arrest people for prostitution, it will still go on, so I think it's a waste of time what they're doing.

5757 · 11-07-2005, 10:03 AM

Srry - Just had to revive this thread.

Anyway, If you pull over to get some ass, that is really ALL you need to do. You are guilty. It doesn't matter if you were having second thoughts. The FIRST thought you had was to pull over and buy some ass. Bam. Done. You're getting fined. I would't do a darn thing to change these stings. I can't even imagine what you could do to change these stings. It's absolutely entrapment, and every single person entrapped deserves it.

denim · 11-07-2005, 10:28 AM

I see. So the next time you're stuck by the side of the road needing a lift, and try to flag me down, don't be surprised if I laugh at you and keep going, 5757.

FatFreeGoodness · 11-07-2005, 11:20 AM

The objections so far seem to be:
“The cops shouldn’t be wasting time on this when there are robberies and murders needing to be solved.” This can be summarized as the “don’t sweat the small stuff while greater crimes exist” argument.
Following this logic, no one would arrest a jaywalker while there were shoplifters in existence. The shoplifter is safe as long as there are burglars. Burglars need to get in line behind robbers. And who cares about robbers until we have all the murderers?
Expanding to other fields, no one would work on hay fever so long as there was no cure for cancer.
It is possible, indeed necessary, to prosecute lesser crimes as well as greater.

“This is a victimless crime, and should not be a crime at all.” If you do not think this is a crime, that is a point to raise with the legislature. Blaming the police for enforcing the laws is wrong.

“It was entrapment.” If it was entrapment, a lawyer will get the guy off, and there will probably be career repercussions for the officers.
The related argument is “Even if he gets off because of entrapment, his reputation is still damaged.” If his reputation is damaged by the truth coming out, that’s really sad.

martinguerre · 11-07-2005, 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by optik_nerve

All they wanted was some nice ass.

Watching some of those stings...nice might be a very kind way of putting it.

squirrelyburt · 11-07-2005, 08:06 PM

Two questions...who is the victim? and if I give the hooker the money in a birthday card, how can they prove it was prostitution?

5757 · 11-08-2005, 01:27 AM

^Hmm, good point. A birthday card. . . Go try it and tell us the results!

jwoody · 11-08-2005, 02:03 AM

From reading the posts above, I'll bet that many of you have never lived in a prostitute infested area.

I spent the worst six months of my life as a prisoner in my own home, surrounded by skanky crack-whores (13 - 50yr olds) and their pimps. Imagine being kept awake at night by the sound of old men fucking young girls in the back alleys behind your house.

The only nights I got any peace were when the police were on patrol.

Wherever the pros go they leave a trail of used condoms, needles, foil, blood, broken teeth... human waste. The amount of discarded chewing gum on the pavement was a sight in itself.

I can see the benefits of legalised and regulated brothels but they wouldn't reduce the problem of whores on the streets. I reckon the problem would only get worse if prostitution was legitimised.

Dragonknight · 11-08-2005, 02:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Samalie

Prostitution Stings are a waste of police resources as far as I'm concerned.

You will NEVER eliminate prostitution. Won't ever happen. May as well regulate it properly, keep it "clean" and out of residential neighborhoods.

I've always had a problem with prostitution laws anyway. You find a girl, buy her dinner & a movie & such, drop $200 on the night, and fuck her brains out at the end of the night....legal dating. Skip the middleman and just give her the $200 - its a crime. Bullshit to me

Sammy

My feelings exactly. Hell you even pay less if you have a One Night Stand you pay even less.

Charlatan · 11-08-2005, 05:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jwoody

From reading the posts above, I'll bet that many of you have never lived in a prostitute infested area.

I spent the worst six months of my life as a prisoner in my own home, surrounded by skanky crack-whores (13 - 50yr olds) and their pimps. Imagine being kept awake at night by the sound of old men fucking young girls in the back alleys behind your house.

The only nights I got any peace were when the police were on patrol.

Wherever the pros go they leave a trail of used condoms, needles, foil, blood, broken teeth... human waste. The amount of discarded chewing gum on the pavement was a sight in itself.

I can see the benefits of legalised and regulated brothels but they wouldn't reduce the problem of whores on the streets. I reckon the problem would only get worse if prostitution was legitimised.

That's an interesting thought jwoody. I've always thought if it was legalized and regulated you could create areas of town where it was legal -- for example brothels in a red light district or better still, let women work from their own apartments and get them off the street.

Then truly crack down on women working the streets anywhere else. They should follow the path of least resistance and work where it is legal.

jwoody · 11-08-2005, 06:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charlatan

I've always thought if it was legalized and regulated you could create areas of town where it was legal

How would you feel if your area of town was chosen?

Would it be better to choose an already run-down area in the hope that legalised prostitution could somehow improve it?

I lived two streets away from what was known as a tolerance area. It wasn't officially tolerant but I witnessed the police turn a blind eye to prostitution more than once... a day for several months.

I've been to Amsterdam and had great time but there isn't a cat in hell's chance that I'd ever consider living there.

Quote:

from: http://www.sexualhealthmatters.com/v4iss3/article5.html

Tolerance zones

There have been many debates locally on Teesside about the need for tolerance zones in order to facilitate an area where adult prostitution can take place. However, there is a need to consider where such a tolerance zone would be situated. Moreover, in the 21st century, should society still be tolerating the abuse of children, young people and women, given the wealth of research and knowledge of how people become involved in prostitution? In addition, Middlesbrough residents total some 143,800 and the town covers a geographical area of 5390 hectares. Therefore the Cleveland Police view is simply that there is no space for such a zone within these tight geographical boundaries.
And the population of Middlesbrough has rejected zones in the past.
In the late 90’s when tolerance zones were considered, we saw an influx of kerbcrawlers coming to the town, who saw the area as soft on prostitution. Through the work of the Middlesbrough Crime and Disorder Prostitution Task Group and Cleveland Police, a strong anti-tolerance zones message was implemented to deter men coming to Middlesbrough for the purposes of purchasing sexual services.

Charlatan · 11-08-2005, 07:39 AM

I was thinking more that it should be located in Industrial parks on the outskirts of town, but I do see your point.

Dragonknight · 11-08-2005, 08:00 AM

If something like this was legalized then the outskirts would be the ideal location. (to me at least) Unless of course it's allowed out of homes. Then you run the risk of guys coming to a prostitutes home all the damn time with no care for their privacy. On second thought that might be a bad idea, keep it to a location with a descent amount of seclusion.

rmarshall · 11-08-2005, 10:38 AM

In Canada, prostitution is legal. Solicitation is not legal, nor is running a brothel. What is legal are call girls or "escorts" that either come to your house or hotel, or you go to theirs. They advertise in the papers, magazines or on the web.

That way, you wouldn't have people screwing in the streets or seedy redlight areas with people coming and going at all hours of the night disturbing the neighbours.

Massage parlours w/ sexual favours are illegal, but if they don't cause trouble the cops seem to look the other way. Occasionally, there are raids. They also raid stripbars if there are sexual stuff going on in there.

I think it is very civilized here in Canada.

There were some posts about "flagging down" that reminded me of a time about 15 years ago. I was on the south shore of Montreal in Lemoyne in the morning driving to the Victoria Bridge when I was "flagged down" by a prostitute. She was shoeless and poorly dressed for the raging blizzard going on. Apparently, she had been with a "client" and was robbed and barely managed to get away. She had to leave behind her coat and boots. She told me all this in broken english. I drove her home to Bouchierville. She offered to give me a blowjob. I said "no thanks, I just had one".

She was very appreciative. I felt great all day!

Pragma · 11-08-2005, 02:40 PM

The problem is when, as jwoody alluded to, when prostitution mixes with the drug trade. Crack whores and other hangers-on that live in and around open-air drug markets and will perform sexual favors for drugs and/or money to buy drugs won't go away or put on a pretty face, if you make prositution legal or not.

Upper-class and middle-class prositution (escort services, etc.) will probably be improved, but the typical "guy drives into a shady neighborhood, waves over a woman, gets a BJ, hands her money, and drives off" will never really go away as long as there are people desperate for drugs. Furthermore, then you have the associated crimes of what happens when a crack-whore gets assaulted by a john, or a john gets robbed by the crack-whore, and goes to report it.

There's a lot of different crime going on all in one location and it tends to be pretty intertwined, so it's hard to pick a particular violation and say "okay, we'll make this legal and a lot of our problems will vanish."

03-08-2005, 04:45 PM	#1 (permalink)
skinnymofo Addict ed to smack Location: Seattle	Police Setting up Prostitution stings So I have been watching the show COPS and they seem to take delight in setting people up for soliciting sex. Now im mostly talking about the women officers dressing up and FLAGGING DOWN CARS to try and get the men to say they will pay for sex. Now in this particular episode im watching, the guy did absolutely nothing wrong (in my eyes). She flagged him down -She laid the price down and She told him where to go. while i realize he would of gone through with it when he drove off he was busted and arrested. So not only did she not get in his car, he went to the nearest gas station and had his hood open. he might not of even gone through with it for all everyone knows. Innocent until proven otherwise ya? Anyway there really isnt a single forum i could have put this in so i stuck it here. what is everyones opinion on this? I know others have seen such things or maybe even had them happen to them. I think its entrapment. Thoughts?

03-08-2005, 04:53 PM	#2 (permalink)
ScottKuma Insane Location: Maineville, OH	Probably not entrapment - the guy DID what she asked. However, I think that a good lawyer would probably get the guy off...depending on the jurisdiction. It seems shaky at best to assume that any male driving through the area wants a prostitute, no matter how much the area has a reputation. Personally, I'd have driven off & not given it another thought. Remember also that for every bust they show, probably 70-100 cars didn't bite. __________________ A government big enough to give you everything you want is big enough to take from you everything you have. -Gerald R. Ford GoogleMap Me

03-08-2005, 05:00 PM	#4 (permalink)
Charlatan Getting it. Super Moderator Location: Lion City	This is another example of a stupid law... Prostitution should be legalized and regulated. __________________ "My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars." - Old Man Luedecke

03-08-2005, 07:38 PM	#5 (permalink)
insidious_machinae Psycho	This message has been deleted. Last edited by insidious_machinae; 03-20-2010 at 10:25 AM..

03-09-2005, 01:40 PM	#9 (permalink)
PredeconInferno Reclusiarch Location: Unfortunately Houston, TX	Well, if she FLAGGED the car down... maybe the guy was thinking, "maybe she needs some help" and pulled over... I know I would (hooker or not... female or not). If someone flagged me down, I woudl at least investigate. If the woman started soliciting sex, and laying down prices and all that jazz... I'd probably feel uncomfortable and just go with it until she shut up or tried to get in my car. If that happens, I'd just drive away... I don't want to offend anyone, but sex is not something random that doesn't mean something. /shrug __________________ Samurai in Training Knowledge is power. Guard it well.

03-08-2005, 05:00 PM	#3 (permalink)
Coppertop Getting Medieval on your ass Location: 13th century Europe	I've always thought it strange how in this situation if money is not exchanged there is no "crime." But that's a whole different thread.

03-08-2005, 09:02 PM	#7 (permalink)
Pragma I am Winter Born Location: Alexandria, VA	Entrapment is only entrapment if (a) the government in some fashion attempts to make you commit the crime, and (b) you aren't predisposed to the crime. If the guy has a history of solicitation, he can't use entrapment as a defense - it just doesn't work that way. "Oh, well it's not my fault, she tried to trap me into paying for a prostitute, I didn't want to! What do you mean I've been arrested seven times for this same charge? Oops."

03-09-2005, 10:31 AM	#8 (permalink)
optik_nerve Psycho Location: Florida	All they wanted was some nice ass.

03-09-2005, 03:35 PM	#10 (permalink)
MSD The sky calls to us ... Super Moderator Location: CT	Another crime that would be victimless if it were made legal and subject to even minimal regulatiom. Another area in which the government interferes when it has no right whatsoever to do so.

03-09-2005, 04:57 PM	#11 (permalink)
eribrav Junkie Location: upstate NY	Last I checked, there are many areas of the country that have problems with real, actual, serious crimes like robberies, assaults, murders etc. Why are police wasting time with a farce like this? I agree completely that prostitution should be legalized. But even if it isn't there is absolutely no good reason for these silly "stings". Either go find real criminals or spend more time at the donut shop, but don't arrest people for this trumped up crap then show it on TV to satisfy the puritans in this country.

03-10-2005, 05:45 AM	#12 (permalink)
mazagmot Crazy Location: S. Korea	The justification for prostitution stings is because, since they've outlawed prostitution, the neighborhoods where it happens tend to be high crime neighborhoods. As prostitution migrates from one neighborhood to another, the crime follows.

03-10-2005, 06:19 AM	#14 (permalink)
braisler Addict Location: Midway, KY	Not to get off topic too much, but I saw something else that I thought was borderline entrapment on that same TV show COPS the other night. The police where staking out a lower income neighborhood late at night. They were putting a nice, new, shiny bike leaning unlocked against a pole. When some unsuspecting teenager comes along and sees this bike and decides to go for a ride, they pounced on him, tackled him to the ground and put him in cuffs. I don't know whether they actually tried to arrest him or not, but they did search him roughly and tell him that he had broken a law by stealing that bike. "He knew the bike wasn't his, didn't he?" Cripes! When you leave an unlocked bike leaning up against a building, likely it isn't going to be there when you get back. What's next. Are they going to drop a $20 bill on the ground on the sidewalk of a busy street and arrest the first person who picks it up? "You knew that $20 wasn't yours, didn't you?" Cops are too often motivated by the wrong interests. Or we, the people, are too naive when it comes to the true role of the police in our society. They aren't here to protect and serve us. __________________ --- You do not really understand something unless you can explain it to your grandmother. - Albert Einstein ---

03-10-2005, 06:42 AM	#15 (permalink)
squirrelyburt Crazy Location: Central Wisconsin	I have two points to make on this, first, COPS is a TERRIBlE place to learn about law enforcement. Most of what they do is acting for the camera, and I often find myself disagreeing strongly from a professional standpoint on what the officers do. They act more like cowboys than they do professional officers. Remember, they put the most lively stuff they tape on the shows. Point 2- Prostitution itself is a victimless crime, but there are numerous crimes, mostly violent, that make victims of primarily the prostitutes, and to a lesser degree, the johns. __________________ If you've ever felt there was a reason to be afraid of the dark, you were right.

03-10-2005, 07:22 AM	#16 (permalink)
dksuddeth Junkie Location: bedford, tx	to my knowledge, in any sting like this, the 'john' must first initiate paying. If the undercover initiates price negotiation then that is entrapment. if thats wrong, someone please correct. __________________ "no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free. No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything. You cannot conquer a free man; the most you can do is kill him."

03-11-2005, 05:36 PM	#18 (permalink)
william Psycho	It's not entrapment, because the offender knows he (she) is breaking the law. Finding a $20 bill on the ground is luck. Not the same thing. Another anology of entrapment (NOT) is an undercover cop sitting next to you at a red light, revving his engine. Light goes green, and you take off. He pulls up behind you w/lights flashing. You knew it was wrong to speed, but you chose to do it. It becomes entrapment when you [U]have knowledge of your actions. A john knows he's breaking the law by soliciting a prostitute. Red-light racer knows he's breaking the law by taking off and moving at 60 in a 35.

03-12-2005, 05:32 AM	#20 (permalink)
jhkayakr Insane Location: under the skirt	It's such a terrible waste of time and money. __________________ ........gotta need for speed....

03-15-2005, 07:36 AM	#24 (permalink)
Samalie Tilted Location: Edmonton, Canada	Prostitution Stings are a waste of police resources as far as I'm concerned. You will NEVER eliminate prostitution. Won't ever happen. May as well regulate it properly, keep it "clean" and out of residential neighborhoods. I've always had a problem with prostitution laws anyway. You find a girl, buy her dinner & a movie & such, drop $200 on the night, and fuck her brains out at the end of the night....legal dating. Skip the middleman and just give her the $200 - its a crime. Bullshit to me Sammy

03-15-2005, 06:39 PM	#26 (permalink)
ironmaiden7o7 Insane Location: NYC	Poor guy. I've seen many shows like this where the men would only pull over and listen to the women and then get arrested. I think it's totally unfair. They have to remember that these men are weak and need only a reason to pull over when a woman flags them down. No matter how much they arrest people for prostitution, it will still go on, so I think it's a waste of time what they're doing.

11-07-2005, 10:03 AM	#27 (permalink)
5757 Insane Location: Vegas!!	Srry - Just had to revive this thread. Anyway, If you pull over to get some ass, that is really ALL you need to do. You are guilty. It doesn't matter if you were having second thoughts. The FIRST thought you had was to pull over and buy some ass. Bam. Done. You're getting fined. I would't do a darn thing to change these stings. I can't even imagine what you could do to change these stings. It's absolutely entrapment, and every single person entrapped deserves it. __________________ Hey! Wait! I've got a new complaint, Forever in debt to ((your)) priceless advice. - Nirvana

11-07-2005, 10:28 AM	#28 (permalink)
denim Banned Location: Massachusetts, USA	I see. So the next time you're stuck by the side of the road needing a lift, and try to flag me down, don't be surprised if I laugh at you and keep going, 5757.

11-07-2005, 11:20 AM	#29 (permalink)
FatFreeGoodness Tilted	The objections so far seem to be: “The cops shouldn’t be wasting time on this when there are robberies and murders needing to be solved.” This can be summarized as the “don’t sweat the small stuff while greater crimes exist” argument. Following this logic, no one would arrest a jaywalker while there were shoplifters in existence. The shoplifter is safe as long as there are burglars. Burglars need to get in line behind robbers. And who cares about robbers until we have all the murderers? Expanding to other fields, no one would work on hay fever so long as there was no cure for cancer. It is possible, indeed necessary, to prosecute lesser crimes as well as greater. “This is a victimless crime, and should not be a crime at all.” If you do not think this is a crime, that is a point to raise with the legislature. Blaming the police for enforcing the laws is wrong. “It was entrapment.” If it was entrapment, a lawyer will get the guy off, and there will probably be career repercussions for the officers. The related argument is “Even if he gets off because of entrapment, his reputation is still damaged.” If his reputation is damaged by the truth coming out, that’s really sad.

11-07-2005, 08:06 PM	#31 (permalink)
squirrelyburt Crazy Location: Central Wisconsin	Two questions...who is the victim? and if I give the hooker the money in a birthday card, how can they prove it was prostitution? __________________ If you've ever felt there was a reason to be afraid of the dark, you were right.

11-08-2005, 01:27 AM	#32 (permalink)
5757 Insane Location: Vegas!!	^Hmm, good point. A birthday card. . . Go try it and tell us the results! __________________ Hey! Wait! I've got a new complaint, Forever in debt to ((your)) priceless advice. - Nirvana

11-08-2005, 02:03 AM	#33 (permalink)
jwoody Shackle Me Not Location: Newcastle - England.	From reading the posts above, I'll bet that many of you have never lived in a prostitute infested area. I spent the worst six months of my life as a prisoner in my own home, surrounded by skanky crack-whores (13 - 50yr olds) and their pimps. Imagine being kept awake at night by the sound of old men fucking young girls in the back alleys behind your house. The only nights I got any peace were when the police were on patrol. Wherever the pros go they leave a trail of used condoms, needles, foil, blood, broken teeth... human waste. The amount of discarded chewing gum on the pavement was a sight in itself. I can see the benefits of legalised and regulated brothels but they wouldn't reduce the problem of whores on the streets. I reckon the problem would only get worse if prostitution was legitimised. __________________ .

11-08-2005, 07:39 AM	#37 (permalink)
Charlatan Getting it. Super Moderator Location: Lion City	I was thinking more that it should be located in Industrial parks on the outskirts of town, but I do see your point. __________________ "My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars." - Old Man Luedecke

11-08-2005, 08:00 AM	#38 (permalink)
Dragonknight Insane Location: Hawaii	If something like this was legalized then the outskirts would be the ideal location. (to me at least) Unless of course it's allowed out of homes. Then you run the risk of guys coming to a prostitutes home all the damn time with no care for their privacy. On second thought that might be a bad idea, keep it to a location with a descent amount of seclusion. __________________ Freedom is NOT Free.

11-08-2005, 10:38 AM	#39 (permalink)
rmarshall Addict Location: Kingston,Ontario	In Canada, prostitution is legal. Solicitation is not legal, nor is running a brothel. What is legal are call girls or "escorts" that either come to your house or hotel, or you go to theirs. They advertise in the papers, magazines or on the web. That way, you wouldn't have people screwing in the streets or seedy redlight areas with people coming and going at all hours of the night disturbing the neighbours. Massage parlours w/ sexual favours are illegal, but if they don't cause trouble the cops seem to look the other way. Occasionally, there are raids. They also raid stripbars if there are sexual stuff going on in there. I think it is very civilized here in Canada. There were some posts about "flagging down" that reminded me of a time about 15 years ago. I was on the south shore of Montreal in Lemoyne in the morning driving to the Victoria Bridge when I was "flagged down" by a prostitute. She was shoeless and poorly dressed for the raging blizzard going on. Apparently, she had been with a "client" and was robbed and barely managed to get away. She had to leave behind her coat and boots. She told me all this in broken english. I drove her home to Bouchierville. She offered to give me a blowjob. I said "no thanks, I just had one". She was very appreciative. I felt great all day!

11-08-2005, 02:40 PM	#40 (permalink)
Pragma I am Winter Born Location: Alexandria, VA	The problem is when, as jwoody alluded to, when prostitution mixes with the drug trade. Crack whores and other hangers-on that live in and around open-air drug markets and will perform sexual favors for drugs and/or money to buy drugs won't go away or put on a pretty face, if you make prositution legal or not. Upper-class and middle-class prositution (escort services, etc.) will probably be improved, but the typical "guy drives into a shady neighborhood, waves over a woman, gets a BJ, hands her money, and drives off" will never really go away as long as there are people desperate for drugs. Furthermore, then you have the associated crimes of what happens when a crack-whore gets assaulted by a john, or a john gets robbed by the crack-whore, and goes to report it. There's a lot of different crime going on all in one location and it tends to be pretty intertwined, so it's hard to pick a particular violation and say "okay, we'll make this legal and a lot of our problems will vanish." __________________ Eat antimatter, Posleen-boy!