Weight prejudice on the TFP.... - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

alicat · 02-25-2005, 11:30 PM

I have been a member of the TFP for about 7 months now. The TFP is my internet home. I have a number of internet sites saved as "favorites" , yet the TFP is practically the only one I come to. This site I revere as an absolutely "safe" place to come to. The majority of the members are neutral and considerate. I anticipate and (really) expect the people here to be above what one would normally find in an internet forum.

However, I have held my tongue for too long. Yes, I am "obese". Although I am quite overweight, I am not "grossly obese". Medically I would just be considered "morbidly" obese, although I carry my weight pretty well. Given that the TFP is made up of a majority of males, the negative comments about overweight females (or males, but my observations are that it's females that are talked about mostly) must therefore be made by men.

Given the lack of tolerence for negative comments about practically everything else on the TFP, I feel the need to say something about the acceptance of those same type of comments towards people that don't fit the "Hollywood" body ideal.

I realize (although I don't understand it, given that 60 some percent of people in the U.S. are larger than a size 12, according to this weeks "Time") that "being fat" is the last accepted prejudice. What I have a problem with is that being the case on the TFP. I understand, and agree myself, that fat isin't that attractive. But please people, are you perfect? No, you are not. Anyone who is overweight has issues whether psychological or physical that has resulted in their weight gain. You don't know where they've been or what they've gone through that may have led (emotionally) to them turning to food as a band-aid for their pain, or what physical conditions or problems they might have that led to their weight gain.

Please people, get off your high horses. Believe it or not, I am the exception to the average (thin) persons idea of what a "fat ass" must live like. I eat maybe 1 1/2 meals a day (all home cooked, w/ lots of tomatoes, garlic and olive oil which is heart healthy). I eat fast food on average 1 meal every two months. I don't scarf down a half-gallon of ice-cream in a sitting, nor a bag of chips. In essence, food is not my problem, my body is. It simply doesn't want to play nice. I admit that excercise is my problem. I live with cronic back-pain which makes physical activity hard, which leads to me being inert, which leads to more back pain, etc.... That is a good example though. Too many think that anyone who is fat just eat themselves to that state. No, a lot of reasons can lead to someone being overweight. Not every fat person is that way because they sit on the couch all day and eat everything in sight.

O'kay, I'm pretty much done. I'm just sick and tired of reading comments from people who are too young (and I'm only 33) to have life really catch up to them (which can mean weight gain) or are so shallow that they think it can't ever happen to them, and therefore, based on those impressions, make callous comments about those that aren't just like them.

I know that my thread isin't going to save the world, and probably isin't going to even be read by the very people I'm talking about, but this has been ticking me of for so long now that I had to say something.

I had been considering posting pic's in Exhibition but I am just way too self-concious to given the many posts I've read that have comments about how "fat" a women is. I feel that there are really only a few dozen people on the TFP who are truly neutral and accepting (you guys know who you are!).

I would love to see some members stepping up to the plate and calling people on these "fat" comments, although I won't hold my breath 'cuz as I said before, "fat" is the last acceptable prejudice.

Ali

Suave · 02-25-2005, 11:48 PM

I honestly don't recall seeing any "fat" comments thrown around in any of the threads that I've been reading. I could maybe see them in some of the erogenous zone threads, but anywhere else they seem to be non-existent (in my experience).

Willravel · 02-26-2005, 12:05 AM

I do realize the people can be very mean and insensitive, but I'm not sure I remember seeing any anti-fat comments here on TFP.

The anti-fat comments that you do get from people are probably stemming from a lack of self esteem on their parts. Don't let their insecurity bother you. As cheezy and simplistic as it sounds, a persons worth does not stem from the exterior, but the interior. Judging by your posts, you are a very good person. You are a good person who just happens to be overweight. As someone who was overweight myself for 3 or 4 years, I do sympathise about the comments and the way society treats you. It isn't fair that there is all this pressure.

It also sounds like you are taking an active role in your health, so you can't be accused of being lazy or stagnent in your weight. That's better than most Americans. Most people will buy a fad diet book and follow it for a week before binging on McDonalds and Ben & Jerry's. You deserve credit for that.

If you'll notice in the exhibition section, no one really has negetive comments.

Halx · 02-26-2005, 12:12 AM

Speaking only for myself, I find a person's body language, personal manner and facial attractiveness to be the major determining factors in whether I am comfortable interacting with someone in person. If you're getting your idea of how people view women by looking at the Titty Board... that's like polling juvenile hall for opinions on the Police.

Seething · 02-26-2005, 12:21 AM

I definitely think that people are less forgiving (here and well, people in general) when it comes to overweight people. People that have never been overweight tend to place the blame squarely on the person, rather than considering that maybe some outside factors have to do with it. As far as they're concerned, all it takes to get fat is eat a lot and get no exercise. But I have yet to meet a single "big" person who got that way simply by planting their ass on the couch and eating non-stop. I'm a big guy myself, but I've been this way my entire life. Both my parents are fat and lazy, so you can only imagine what standards they set for me as a child. But if a thin person were to look at me not knowing my past, their instinct is to think I spend my Friday nights crying into a bucket of chicken about why I look the way I do. Ignorance makes it easier for people to go about their lives, instead of having to stop and actually think there's a person underneath their appearance.

Latch · 02-26-2005, 12:31 AM

I'm pretty much echoing what Sauve said.

I can't recall seeing "fat" comments around here. In fact, I find most people are more accepting of it than being insensitive and judgemental (compared to what I see in day-to-day life offline).

martinguerre · 02-26-2005, 12:35 AM

i have seen the occasional comment in tilted sex, or similar forums...but if memory serves, other members have confronted it on most occasions.

when stuff happens, call it out...that's my advice.

ObieX · 02-26-2005, 12:40 AM

I would have to agree that i haven't really seen any negative comments about overweight people. THe only exception as mentioned above would be the titty board, even then there are those who enjoy a plump woman *shrugs*.

Personally I'm the complete opposite of the way you explained yourself. I'm as skinny as a twig. I can eat all day every day and not gain any weight/muscle. Could work out and do the protein shake stuff and im still a twig. Every time i see/saw my grandparents/ father / step mother/ teachers / friends / coaches i'd always end up hearing the same thing "you're too skinny" "damn you're skinny" "have you been eating" "have your parents been feeding you" etc etc. *shrugs* You all may not think its the same but its not really all that different. Ask a guy what they think of the olsen twins you'd most likely hear something about them being hot, except the one is way too skinny - "thats sick".

Strange Famous · 02-26-2005, 01:38 AM

Im pretty heavy - 5 9 and about 280 lbs, and no one here has ever really made fun of me for being fat, so far as I can recall - so if they did it didnt make much of an impression I guess.

Irishsean · 02-26-2005, 02:24 AM

I'm sorry you have that impression, but as far as I've seen, everyone's pretty tolerant of anything around here. I'm 6'2' and around 280, pretty big guy, and I have pictures in both portraits and exhibition and haven't recieved anything but positive comments. Go ahead and post your pictures, some of us are more interested in smiling lips or twinkling eyes than counting ribs! =D

World's King · 02-26-2005, 11:55 AM

Being a short skinny person I don't make fun of anyone's size mainly because I'm affraid for my life. I can be crushed very easy.

pocon1 · 02-26-2005, 01:40 PM

ehh, I will let someone else argue this. If no one else will, then I will add something later.

One thing to think about, do you think that maybe your weight is exacerbating your back pain? Remember, even if you have trouble exercising, you still control the calories you put in your mouth.

Lebell · 02-26-2005, 01:55 PM

This topic crops up every now and again and I think the majority of our members are fairly mature people who don't judge solely on apperences.

That being said, we will always have shallow individuals who's first impression of a person's worth is based on their looks.

When these discussions crop up, inveriably they defend themselves and explain their positions (which is ok, even while I disagree), but anyone who goes off on a "fatty" flame will be shown the door, even as anyone who disrespects their fellow members is.

As to the exhibition forum, I totally understand your feelings, but you might try to focus on all the positive comments our bigger female membership has garnered. We have some very beautiful bigger women around here and many of us appreciate them

brianna · 02-26-2005, 01:58 PM

I'm surprised that so many people claim to have not seen the "fat" comments on TFP. I know for a fact that they exist and I suspect that most of us fail to recognize weight prejudice even when it is right in front of us. Some examples: In tilted politics I have seen people comment (I believe in a thread about universal health care) that fat people are lazy and don't deserve to have the same access to health care as skinny people, In the titty bored I have seen many comments calling relatively slight models fat and ugly and here in sexuality just yesterday I read a post about a man trying to make his new girlfriend lose weight (thankfully in this case many TFPers stood up and pointed out that this was not his responsibility).

In most cases I don't think these comments are meant to be hurtful or prejudice, unfortunately sizism is so ingrained in our society that many of us do not think about how our comments might be unfair. To often anti-fat comments are hidden under the guise of "It's not healthy." It is not possible to judge if someone is healthy based only on appearances and is especially impossible to judge this based on words or ever a picture. And frankly it's none of our business. It's never our place to judge someone else’s body or try to force our idea of beauty onto another person.

Alicat: thanks for bringing this up, I hope TFP can continue to evolve into an all embracing community. And, as others have said, when you see prejudice please point it out so that we can all learn from our mistakes.

Frowning Budah · 02-26-2005, 02:00 PM

I read one thread that was about a company firing workers who smoked at home. This led to some negative comments on fat people. Like most prejudice until we actually know someone we believe all the stereotypical things were hear about a group. I don't think TFPs are any more prejudiced against fat people than the world in general. Unfortunately the majority of us no longer fit into the "ideal" in regards to proper weight. Until the perception that all fat people are pigs and lazy is overcome many people will assume that is true, because that is what they hear. Throw off your ignorance and get to know a fat person. I am one.

analog · 02-26-2005, 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Halx

Speaking only for myself, I find a person's body language, personal manner and facial attractiveness to be the major determining factors in whether I am comfortable interacting with someone in person. If you're getting your idea of how people view women by looking at the Titty Board... that's like polling juvenile hall for opinions on the Police.

Yeah, I'm also not too sure where you're getting all these "fat" insults you're talking about. As moderators, we likely will collectively see every thread on this board several times over, and every post in them. I mean, that's what we're here for- and you're right, we are not very tolerant of insulting behavior. This is why your argument seems to go flat. I do hope, as Halx said, that you're not talking about anything found in the Erogenous Zone.

We all have our shortcomings or things about us that we would like to change, and those parts of us often cause a hypersensitive external radar for anything even remotely related. I think perhaps much of what you perceive as an injustice or a slight to your unfortunate weight situation may simply be your specific sensitivities getting the better of you. As you said- we're all human, none of us are perfect.

Bearing all this in mind, please also remember that every post in every thread has a "report this post to a moderator" link on it. They're there for a reason- use them if you feel someone is out of line. Then, perhaps, we can ascertain the true nature of the problems you face on this board.

- analog.

CandleInTheDark · 02-26-2005, 02:05 PM

You can eat healthy and still stay fat. Only caloric deficit will result in weight loss.

I see to no reason to be accepting of someone who does not want to work hard enough to become healthy. Unless you have a severe medical condition that resulted in you being obese, there is no excuse.

Now if I saw you in the gym working your ass off (pun not intended), or planning your meals in order to reach your goals, then I see no reason for someone to disrespect you. If you just sit and moan about how your body won't cooperate, don't expect people to be accepting.

I'm not asking (and I'm sure no one else is) that you have a perfect body, or that you be quick in getting it. That is of course unrealistic. But you cannot expect someone to accept the choices that made you obese, or the choices that keep you there.

Squishor · 02-26-2005, 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CandleInTheDark

You can eat healthy and still stay fat. Only caloric deficit will result in weight loss.

I see to no reason to be accepting of someone who does not want to work hard enough to become healthy. Unless you have a severe medical condition that resulted in you being obese, there is no excuse.

Now if I saw you in the gym working your ass off (pun not intended), or planning your meals in order to reach your goals, then I see no reason for someone to disrespect you. If you just sit and moan about how your body won't cooperate, don't expect people to be accepting.

I'm not asking (and I'm sure no one else is) that you have a perfect body, or that you be quick in getting it. That is of course unrealistic. But you cannot expect someone to accept the choices that made you obese, or the choices that keep you there.

Exactly how much "accepting" do you have to do? It's not much work for you to let someone be, is it? I don't understand your post.

Lebell · 02-26-2005, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CandleInTheDark

I see to no reason to be accepting of someone who does not want to work hard enough to become healthy. Unless you have a severe medical condition that resulted in you being obese, there is no excuse.

Now if I saw you in the gym working your ass off (pun not intended), or planning your meals in order to reach your goals, then I see no reason for someone to disrespect you. If you just sit and moan about how your body won't cooperate, don't expect people to be accepting.

While I don't mean to pick on this particular member, this is a good point to what I was saying earlier.

This member has a right to his opinion even while I disagree with it (the idea that you are 'acceptable' only if you are working hard to be healthy is distasteful to me. What is his definition of "working hard"? Why should I worry about being 'acceptable' to you? etc.)

Anyway, he posted in a respectful manner and the comment can stand even while I might find it hurtful and closed minded.

edited becauz I stil kant spel

Rdr4evr · 02-26-2005, 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pocon1

ehh, I will let someone else argue this. If no one else will, then I will add something later.

One thing to think about, do you think that maybe your weight is exacerbating your back pain? Remember, even if you have trouble exercising, you still control the calories you put in your mouth.

I was thinking the same thing, but figured someone else would bring it up as well. I would love to add to your comment, but fear someone will turn it into something bad and start a senseless argument, which has been the case for me lately, something I'd rather avoid for now.

Like most others, I haven't seen any negative comments or insults to overweight individuals on this board. I'm guessing a mod wouldn't let it last longer than a few minutes anyway, so chances of catching it are low also.

EDIT: I just saw CandleIntheDark's statement, which I fully agree with and it for the most part sums up the situation. Unless it's medically or physically impossible for someone to lose weight, all else is just excuses.

EDIT 2: I don't think CandleInTheDark is saying we shouldn't be accepting of those who are overweight, but rather those who want people to feel sorry for them for being overweight yet do nothing about their problem except whine (generally speaking, it's not exclusive to weight). Unless I misinterpreted what he is saying, that statement is correct. One must be responsible and take action rather than complain and expect results if something is bothering them.

ScottKuma · 02-26-2005, 02:26 PM

Alicat:

One of the nice things about forums on the Internet is that MOST of the time you are judged by your intellect, wit, and personality instead of your looks & physique.

That being said, in any situation or surroundings you will find those who are less accepting of others. My suggestion is to write off the jerks and focus your energies on those who are more in sync with you mentally & spiritually.

brianna · 02-26-2005, 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CandleInTheDark

I see to no reason to be accepting of someone who does not want to work hard enough to become healthy. Unless you have a severe medical condition that resulted in you being obese, there is no excuse.

Now if I saw you in the gym working your ass off (pun not intended), or planning your meals in order to reach your goals, then I see no reason for someone to disrespect you. If you just sit and moan about how your body won't cooperate, don't expect people to be accepting.

I think this is a good example of what the thread starter is talking about. We should respect each other as individuals and keep in mind that all of our lives have unique challenges. Judging someone's worth based on their appearance is unfair and IMO unacceptable.

CandleInTheDark · 02-26-2005, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Squishor

Exactly how much "accepting" do you have to do? It's not much work for you to let someone be, is it? I don't understand your post.

Do I go out of my way to insult or show disrespect to an obese individual? Of course not. But if someone complains or comments to me (or in a public forum) about not wanting to be obese, or how hard it is to lose weight, or how people don't accept them, they should not expect acceptance (from me) then.

If you have a problem with a changeble aspect in your life, then change it; don't complain about it.

Asking for help? Awesome.
Asking for information? Great.
Asking for sympathy while doing nothing to change your situation? Not a chance.

EDIT:

My objection is not with appearance. My great appreciation of some less that socially ideal women on The Titty Board, should be evidence of that. My objection is with the choices people make. Obesity is (almost always) a result of choices that (almost always) impair a person's health (physically and mentally).

CandleInTheDark · 02-26-2005, 02:38 PM

Yes Rdr4evr, I'm more than content to let the non-complainers be. If you're happy with yourself awesome. If you're not and you can change yourself, but don't (try), then don't expect sympathy and acceptance.

canuckguy · 02-26-2005, 03:41 PM

i only remember seeing one post about "fat" thingy. I think it was in the living section were some bloke wanted info on how to help is gf lose weight. if i remember correctly everyone was very supportive with no negative views towards the weight thing...now the post was another story i think...hehe

Demeter · 02-26-2005, 03:56 PM

Bah, if no one likes the junk in my trunk, its their loss. Shake it off alicat. Accept yourself and noone will be able to get to you.

canuckguy · 02-26-2005, 04:30 PM

Not to thread jack, but i want to add the opposite, when i was younger, 13-24 (am 29 now) I was constantly teased by family and friends and whoever for being so skinny. I was about 6ft, 140lbs in college and it was a running joke. Never bothered me i guess, expect that it got a bit old. Now that i am older i've got up to as high as 230, but sit around 195-200lbs. I remember how good it felt to be called tubby when i was at 230 from a couple of mates. I always remember being skinny and never want to be at that stage again. I use to eat a full dinner, seconds, then a couple of sandwichs before bed as i was always hunger (young boys eh). I know this is the complete opposite of this situation but i feel i can relate in this opposite way. gotta live life for you, not anyone else.........unless you have kids then its about them.

Squishor · 02-26-2005, 04:54 PM

When I was younger I was stick-skinny...since I have small breasts and a youthful appearance, I got lots of comments along the lines that I looked like I wasn't done developing yet, looked like a 12-year old, etc. Some of these comments were very insulting and demeaning. I've been repeatedly told I'm "not a real woman." I'll never forget the day I was in a cafe telling some friends a story and some guy walked up, grabbed my jacket and opened it up to show my chest, and said, "What's the matter, they cut your tits off?"

Heavy people might think life is perfect if you're small but the truth is people will find some way to be hurtful no matter what you look like. Because of the way I was made to feel because of my body shape, I am sympathetic on this issue. I also feel that since I've never been fat, I have no right to speak on the subject and cannot possibly understand the challenges obese people face. In my opinion, it's just out of line to make comments on people's appearance (unless it's to compliment somebody). I may not like the way someone looks but I will accept their right to exist the way they are without me butting in.

flstf · 02-26-2005, 06:08 PM

These forums are usually respectful of most people and the moderators keep it that way. I think the original poster of this thread is probably referring to things like that quoted below from a recent thread concerning an employer's policy to get rid of people with risky lifestyle choices. I guess one can get the idea that overweight people are irresponsible or something like that.

Quote:

I don't think anyone has a right to tell him that he or his company should be forced to lose money just because an employee wants to spend all their time sitting on a couch while watching TV and inhaling boxes of Twinkies.

Note: If you are the writer I in no way meant to single you out. I just did a quick search to try and see what posts the thread starter might be upset with.

flamingdog · 02-26-2005, 07:07 PM

Likewise, I can see at least two or three posts in this thread that go to support alicat's statement.

Lasereth · 02-26-2005, 07:09 PM

I do get rightly pissed off when comments are made against fat people. A majority of the non-fat asses in this world think that if you're fat, it's your own damn fault and that you caused it. Ha! There is such a thing as genetics. There is such a thing as differing metabolic rates.

I'm fat but it doesn't bother me. I know that the only way for me to lose weight is to exercise a ton and eat completely healthy and in small quantities. One premise that I will NOT let slide is the fact that some people's metabolic rates are different than others. My friends in high school sat on their asses and played videogames all day. At lunch they'd eat two slices of pizza, french fries, icecream, and a drink. I'd eat the main item and the side item and tea. They never gained a pound and remainded skinny. If I varied from my two-item diet, I'd gain weight in no-time flat. Some people simply gain weight and lose weight faster than others. Some people can eat whatever they want for their entire lives without gaining weight.

Another aforementioned topic is being born fat. My grandpa and my dad are fat. I was born fat and always have been fat. I was down to eating barely anything all day in high school and still remained over 200 pounds. Now I eat what I want and have levelled off at around 260 being 5'10". I wouldn't be skinny eating a normal diet...I simply wouldn't.

My point? Diets do affect how fat you are, but it only goes so far for some people. Before you decide that a person is fat because they eat too much, try to remember that some people are born with low metabolic rates. It's not stuffing our faces that makes all fat people big -- it's simply their genetic build.

I'm personally glad there are fat people in this world -- I think chubby girls are 1000% cuter than skinny girls. To all of the chubby girls out there: you're hot.

-Lasereth

bernadette · 02-26-2005, 07:11 PM

oh boy... sticky sticky topic.

chin up, alicat. just be your best in every way as best you can.
*hugs*

Lasereth · 02-26-2005, 07:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CandleInTheDark

Obesity is (almost always) a result of choices that (almost always) impair a person's health (physically and mentally).

I call bullshit.

Read my above post. A good portion of fat people out there are born like it. Fat people shouldn't have to go out of their way to get skinny to "fit in," just like skinny people shouldn't have to go out of their way to eat a thousand donuts to fit in with fat people. Some people do make bad choices that result in them being fat, but it's not "almost always." On top of that, a fat person shouldn't have to become skinny just to gain acceptance by anyone.

-Lasereth

02-26-2005, 07:28 PM

Live your life however. It shows maturity to accept that everyone is entitled to their opinion. Past opinions, what I know to be true may not be true to you and we each learn to deal with that dynamic. I know that the majority of people who are obese could overcome it and get their wheight down to a healthy level if they had the commitment and desire to do so even if it took years. If they don't, that's fine. They live with the consequences of being obese. I have been overwheight and through being active at work and casually lifting wheights, I turned my 6'7" body into the mean fighting machine it is now.

CandleInTheDark · 02-26-2005, 07:29 PM

Can you tell me a condition where you can gain fat while still being in a caloric defecit? Your body can't produce fat out of nowhere.

I'm willing to concede there is a genetic component. But I believe you are exagerrating it's effects. Metabolic rates certainly differ; but that would only effect the time it takes to burn calories. It may take someone with a slow metabolic rate longer to shed fatty tissue, but it's not going to prevent someone on a caloric defecit from losing that tissue.

Do they have to become "skinny" (which isn't a much healthier state)? No. But then neither should they be complaining about it. I'm not going to respect and accept someone when they complain about something they want changed, and do nothing to see that change happen. Do all obese people do this? No. But I suspect the majority do, just like many non obese people.

Being obese is not akin to being black, white, gay, straight, Canadian, or mentally retarded. Your colour, nationality (largely), and sexuality are not the result of your choices. Obesity (in almost every case) is.

Cowman · 02-26-2005, 07:37 PM

I didnt read really any of the thread
but

Quote:

I eat maybe 1 1/2 meals a day

that's why you're overweight.
eating less often does not equal losing weight
it equals weight GAIN

when you seldom eat, your body slows downs its functions; your body goes into "survival" mode by storing up fat.

Lasereth · 02-26-2005, 07:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CandleInTheDark

Can you tell me a condition where you can gain fat while still being in a caloric defecit? Your body can't produce fat out of nowhere.

I'm willing to concede there is a genetic component. But I believe you are exagerrating it's effects. Metabolic rates certainly differ; but that would only effect the time it takes to burn calories. It may take someone with a slow metabolic rate longer to shed fatty tissue, but it's not going to prevent someone on a caloric defecit from losing that tissue.

Do they have to become "skinny" (which isn't a much healthier state)? No. But then neither should they be complaining about it. I'm not going to respect and accept someone when they complain about something they want changed, and do nothing to see that change happen. Do all obese people do this? No. But I suspect the majority do, just like many non obese people.

Being obese is not akin to being black, white, gay, straight, Canadian, or mentally retarded. Your colour, nationality (largely), and sexuality are not the result of your choices. Obesity (in almost every case) is.

You're missing the point. Alicat is saying that some people have been prejudice against fat people. So now you're saying that fat people have to "take action" and become skinny so they won't be made fun of?

She's not complaining about being fat, she's complaining about the people who are being prejudice because of it. There's a big difference. She's not complaining about how she wishes she were skinny but doesn't want to work for it...she just wants the prejudice people to accept that not everyone is skinny.

-lasereth

pocon1 · 02-26-2005, 07:56 PM

From healthierus.gov:

Fitness problems such as obesity and overweight have reached truly epidemic proportions in the United States. In the last 10 years, obesity rates have increased by more than 60 percent among adults. In 1999, 61 percent of the adult population was either overweight or obese. The obesity epidemic impacts other diseases as well. For example, the incidence of type 2 diabetes, a major consequence of obesity, is on the rise. Among U.S. adults, diagnosed diabetes increased 49 percent from 1990 to 2000.
The rate of increase in overweight among young people has been even steeper. This is particularly troubling since many of the behaviors that lead to adult obesity are established during childhood. Just 10 years ago, type 2 diabetes was virtually unknown in children and adolescents. Indeed, the medical community commonly referred to the condition as "adult onset diabetes." Today, it accounts for almost 50 percent of new cases of pediatric diabetes in some communities. Medical complications associated with obesity in children can lead to hospitalizations for type 2 diabetes, sleep apnea, and asthma. Since 1980, the percentage of children who are overweight has nearly doubled, and the percentage of adolescents who are overweight has nearly tripled. Almost 9 million young Americans, or about 15 percent of all children, are overweight.

http://my.webmd.com/content/article/64/72524.htm
May 15, 2003 - The health care costs associated with obesity now rival those attributable to smoking, according to a new study. Researchers say obesity costs in the U.S. totaled up to $92.6 billion last year, and government-funded public insurers Medicare and Medicaid financed about half of those expenses.

Lasereth, if genetics play such a large role in obesity, then why the massive shift upwards in only 10 years? Are we evolving that quickly? BTW, I have seen your list of video games, it is pretty impressive. You must spend a fair amount of time playing.

How many hours do all of us spend in front of the computer each day? How many at TFP alone? I know I spend a fair amount of time here, time that could be spent doing something more active. Now who's fault is that? Well I guess my own, same thing when I had a Haagen Daz ice cream bar just now. No one was holding a gun to my head.

The point is that diet and obesity is something that individual people control. Not society, not strictly genetics. So your metabolism is a little different. So what. I have an alcoholic uncle, and my sister can be a little bit of a lush and she smokes. I could have an addictive personality, but I make decisions that benefit me. I don't drink, I don't smoke, and I try to control my weight. Suck it up and drive on.

Now as far as other fat people in society, they are costing me and you a lot of money. We pushed people to quit smoking. That became socially unacceptable (to smoke). Now I think it is selfish to create this epidemic that is trying to bankrupt the country and creates a tremendous strain on society. BTW, my mom has type 2 diabetes, Though she was a strong and healthy chubby, she still developed a lifestyle disease that puts a lot of stress on her life. Watch her shoot insulin sometime.

Lasereth · 02-26-2005, 08:01 PM

Pocon, I do accept that in the past 10-15 years that the US has undergone a fat revolution. This doesn't change the fact that not every single fat person has made themselves fat. Nothing will change metabolic rates. Nothing. Anyone denying a difference in metabolic rates in people is denying a difference in genetics period.

I do play a lot of videogames and I don't exercise. I'm fat. I didn't say that my fatitude wasn't caused by it. I'm simply saying that before, I used to control what I ate and I was not skinny. Other people do NOT control what they eat and are skinny and do even less exercise than I do. That's hardcore proof that genetics DO play a role in fatness.

-Lasereth

pocon1 · 02-26-2005, 08:04 PM

A pound of muscle burns an average of 30-to-50 calories a day, regardless of whether is is being used that particular day. A pound of fat needs less then ten calories a day to maintain itself as fat. More muscle, greater metabolic rate. That is why as people typically get weaker as they get older, their metabolism slows down. Maintain or increase muscle, and your metabolism stays elevated.

Also, metabolic rates obviously changed in the population, otherwise people would not have gotten fatter.

02-25-2005, 11:30 PM	#1 (permalink)
alicat Baffled Location: West Michigan	Weight prejudice on the TFP.... I have been a member of the TFP for about 7 months now. The TFP is my internet home. I have a number of internet sites saved as "favorites" , yet the TFP is practically the only one I come to. This site I revere as an absolutely "safe" place to come to. The majority of the members are neutral and considerate. I anticipate and (really) expect the people here to be above what one would normally find in an internet forum. However, I have held my tongue for too long. Yes, I am "obese". Although I am quite overweight, I am not "grossly obese". Medically I would just be considered "morbidly" obese, although I carry my weight pretty well. Given that the TFP is made up of a majority of males, the negative comments about overweight females (or males, but my observations are that it's females that are talked about mostly) must therefore be made by men. Given the lack of tolerence for negative comments about practically everything else on the TFP, I feel the need to say something about the acceptance of those same type of comments towards people that don't fit the "Hollywood" body ideal. I realize (although I don't understand it, given that 60 some percent of people in the U.S. are larger than a size 12, according to this weeks "Time") that "being fat" is the last accepted prejudice. What I have a problem with is that being the case on the TFP. I understand, and agree myself, that fat isin't that attractive. But please people, are you perfect? No, you are not. Anyone who is overweight has issues whether psychological or physical that has resulted in their weight gain. You don't know where they've been or what they've gone through that may have led (emotionally) to them turning to food as a band-aid for their pain, or what physical conditions or problems they might have that led to their weight gain. Please people, get off your high horses. Believe it or not, I am the exception to the average (thin) persons idea of what a "fat ass" must live like. I eat maybe 1 1/2 meals a day (all home cooked, w/ lots of tomatoes, garlic and olive oil which is heart healthy). I eat fast food on average 1 meal every two months. I don't scarf down a half-gallon of ice-cream in a sitting, nor a bag of chips. In essence, food is not my problem, my body is. It simply doesn't want to play nice. I admit that excercise is my problem. I live with cronic back-pain which makes physical activity hard, which leads to me being inert, which leads to more back pain, etc.... That is a good example though. Too many think that anyone who is fat just eat themselves to that state. No, a lot of reasons can lead to someone being overweight. Not every fat person is that way because they sit on the couch all day and eat everything in sight. O'kay, I'm pretty much done. I'm just sick and tired of reading comments from people who are too young (and I'm only 33) to have life really catch up to them (which can mean weight gain) or are so shallow that they think it can't ever happen to them, and therefore, based on those impressions, make callous comments about those that aren't just like them. I know that my thread isin't going to save the world, and probably isin't going to even be read by the very people I'm talking about, but this has been ticking me of for so long now that I had to say something. I had been considering posting pic's in Exhibition but I am just way too self-concious to given the many posts I've read that have comments about how "fat" a women is. I feel that there are really only a few dozen people on the TFP who are truly neutral and accepting (you guys know who you are!). I would love to see some members stepping up to the plate and calling people on these "fat" comments, although I won't hold my breath 'cuz as I said before, "fat" is the last acceptable prejudice. Ali __________________ 'Beware the Jabberwock, my son! The jaws that bite, the claws that catch! Beware the Jubjub bird, and shun, The frumious Bandersnatch!'--Jabberwocky, Lewis Carroll "You cannot do a kindness too soon because you never know how soon it will be too late."--Ralph Waldo Emerson

02-25-2005, 11:48 PM	#2 (permalink)
Suave Twitterpated Location: My own little world (also Canada)	I honestly don't recall seeing any "fat" comments thrown around in any of the threads that I've been reading. I could maybe see them in some of the erogenous zone threads, but anywhere else they seem to be non-existent (in my experience). __________________ "Few people are capable of expressing with equanimity opinions which differ from the prejudices of their social environment. Most people are even incapable of forming such opinions." - Albert Einstein "Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something." - Plato

02-26-2005, 12:12 AM	#4 (permalink)
Halx Please touch this. Owner/Admin Location: Manhattan	Speaking only for myself, I find a person's body language, personal manner and facial attractiveness to be the major determining factors in whether I am comfortable interacting with someone in person. If you're getting your idea of how people view women by looking at the Titty Board... that's like polling juvenile hall for opinions on the Police. __________________ You have found this post informative. -The Administrator [Don't Feed The Animals]

02-26-2005, 12:21 AM	#5 (permalink)
Seething Insane	I definitely think that people are less forgiving (here and well, people in general) when it comes to overweight people. People that have never been overweight tend to place the blame squarely on the person, rather than considering that maybe some outside factors have to do with it. As far as they're concerned, all it takes to get fat is eat a lot and get no exercise. But I have yet to meet a single "big" person who got that way simply by planting their ass on the couch and eating non-stop. I'm a big guy myself, but I've been this way my entire life. Both my parents are fat and lazy, so you can only imagine what standards they set for me as a child. But if a thin person were to look at me not knowing my past, their instinct is to think I spend my Friday nights crying into a bucket of chicken about why I look the way I do. Ignorance makes it easier for people to go about their lives, instead of having to stop and actually think there's a person underneath their appearance. __________________ Common sense is uncommon. Ironic, isn't it? Last edited by Seething; 02-26-2005 at 12:30 AM..

02-26-2005, 12:35 AM	#7 (permalink)
martinguerre whosoever Location: New England	i have seen the occasional comment in tilted sex, or similar forums...but if memory serves, other members have confronted it on most occasions. when stuff happens, call it out...that's my advice. __________________ For God so loved creation, that God sent God's only Son that whosoever believed should not perish, but have everlasting life. -John 3:16

02-26-2005, 12:05 AM	#3 (permalink)
Willravel ... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.	I do realize the people can be very mean and insensitive, but I'm not sure I remember seeing any anti-fat comments here on TFP. The anti-fat comments that you do get from people are probably stemming from a lack of self esteem on their parts. Don't let their insecurity bother you. As cheezy and simplistic as it sounds, a persons worth does not stem from the exterior, but the interior. Judging by your posts, you are a very good person. You are a good person who just happens to be overweight. As someone who was overweight myself for 3 or 4 years, I do sympathise about the comments and the way society treats you. It isn't fair that there is all this pressure. It also sounds like you are taking an active role in your health, so you can't be accused of being lazy or stagnent in your weight. That's better than most Americans. Most people will buy a fad diet book and follow it for a week before binging on McDonalds and Ben & Jerry's. You deserve credit for that. If you'll notice in the exhibition section, no one really has negetive comments.

02-26-2005, 12:31 AM	#6 (permalink)
Latch In Your Dreams Location: City of Lights	I'm pretty much echoing what Sauve said. I can't recall seeing "fat" comments around here. In fact, I find most people are more accepting of it than being insensitive and judgemental (compared to what I see in day-to-day life offline).

02-26-2005, 12:40 AM	#8 (permalink)
ObieX Pickles Location: Shirt and Pants (NJ)	I would have to agree that i haven't really seen any negative comments about overweight people. THe only exception as mentioned above would be the titty board, even then there are those who enjoy a plump woman shrugs. Personally I'm the complete opposite of the way you explained yourself. I'm as skinny as a twig. I can eat all day every day and not gain any weight/muscle. Could work out and do the protein shake stuff and im still a twig. Every time i see/saw my grandparents/ father / step mother/ teachers / friends / coaches i'd always end up hearing the same thing "you're too skinny" "damn you're skinny" "have you been eating" "have your parents been feeding you" etc etc. shrugs You all may not think its the same but its not really all that different. Ask a guy what they think of the olsen twins you'd most likely hear something about them being hot, except the one is way too skinny - "thats sick". __________________ We Must Dissent.

02-26-2005, 01:38 AM	#9 (permalink)
Strange Famous follower of the child's crusade?	Im pretty heavy - 5 9 and about 280 lbs, and no one here has ever really made fun of me for being fat, so far as I can recall - so if they did it didnt make much of an impression I guess. __________________ "Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate, for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain without being uncovered." The Gospel of Thomas

02-26-2005, 02:24 AM	#10 (permalink)
Irishsean edited for content Location: Austin, TX	I'm sorry you have that impression, but as far as I've seen, everyone's pretty tolerant of anything around here. I'm 6'2' and around 280, pretty big guy, and I have pictures in both portraits and exhibition and haven't recieved anything but positive comments. Go ahead and post your pictures, some of us are more interested in smiling lips or twinkling eyes than counting ribs! =D __________________ There are no absolute rules of conduct, either in peace or war. Everything depends on circumstances. Leon Trotsky

02-26-2005, 11:55 AM	#11 (permalink)
World's King Here Location: Denver City Denver	Being a short skinny person I don't make fun of anyone's size mainly because I'm affraid for my life. I can be crushed very easy. __________________ heavy is the head that wears the crown

02-26-2005, 01:40 PM	#12 (permalink)
pocon1 Banned	ehh, I will let someone else argue this. If no one else will, then I will add something later. One thing to think about, do you think that maybe your weight is exacerbating your back pain? Remember, even if you have trouble exercising, you still control the calories you put in your mouth. Last edited by pocon1; 02-26-2005 at 01:44 PM..

02-26-2005, 01:55 PM	#13 (permalink)
Lebell Cracking the Whip Location: Sexymama's arms...	This topic crops up every now and again and I think the majority of our members are fairly mature people who don't judge solely on apperences. That being said, we will always have shallow individuals who's first impression of a person's worth is based on their looks. When these discussions crop up, inveriably they defend themselves and explain their positions (which is ok, even while I disagree), but anyone who goes off on a "fatty" flame will be shown the door, even as anyone who disrespects their fellow members is. As to the exhibition forum, I totally understand your feelings, but you might try to focus on all the positive comments our bigger female membership has garnered. We have some very beautiful bigger women around here and many of us appreciate them __________________ "Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." – C. S. Lewis The ONLY sponsors we have are YOU! Please Donate!

02-26-2005, 01:58 PM	#14 (permalink)
brianna Addict Location: nyc	I'm surprised that so many people claim to have not seen the "fat" comments on TFP. I know for a fact that they exist and I suspect that most of us fail to recognize weight prejudice even when it is right in front of us. Some examples: In tilted politics I have seen people comment (I believe in a thread about universal health care) that fat people are lazy and don't deserve to have the same access to health care as skinny people, In the titty bored I have seen many comments calling relatively slight models fat and ugly and here in sexuality just yesterday I read a post about a man trying to make his new girlfriend lose weight (thankfully in this case many TFPers stood up and pointed out that this was not his responsibility). In most cases I don't think these comments are meant to be hurtful or prejudice, unfortunately sizism is so ingrained in our society that many of us do not think about how our comments might be unfair. To often anti-fat comments are hidden under the guise of "It's not healthy." It is not possible to judge if someone is healthy based only on appearances and is especially impossible to judge this based on words or ever a picture. And frankly it's none of our business. It's never our place to judge someone else’s body or try to force our idea of beauty onto another person. Alicat: thanks for bringing this up, I hope TFP can continue to evolve into an all embracing community. And, as others have said, when you see prejudice please point it out so that we can all learn from our mistakes.

02-26-2005, 02:00 PM	#15 (permalink)
Frowning Budah Slave of Fear	I read one thread that was about a company firing workers who smoked at home. This led to some negative comments on fat people. Like most prejudice until we actually know someone we believe all the stereotypical things were hear about a group. I don't think TFPs are any more prejudiced against fat people than the world in general. Unfortunately the majority of us no longer fit into the "ideal" in regards to proper weight. Until the perception that all fat people are pigs and lazy is overcome many people will assume that is true, because that is what they hear. Throw off your ignorance and get to know a fat person. I am one.

02-26-2005, 02:05 PM	#17 (permalink)
CandleInTheDark Addict Location: Where the music's loudest	You can eat healthy and still stay fat. Only caloric deficit will result in weight loss. I see to no reason to be accepting of someone who does not want to work hard enough to become healthy. Unless you have a severe medical condition that resulted in you being obese, there is no excuse. Now if I saw you in the gym working your ass off (pun not intended), or planning your meals in order to reach your goals, then I see no reason for someone to disrespect you. If you just sit and moan about how your body won't cooperate, don't expect people to be accepting. I'm not asking (and I'm sure no one else is) that you have a perfect body, or that you be quick in getting it. That is of course unrealistic. But you cannot expect someone to accept the choices that made you obese, or the choices that keep you there. __________________ Where there is doubt there is freedom.

02-26-2005, 02:26 PM	#21 (permalink)
ScottKuma Insane Location: Maineville, OH	Alicat: One of the nice things about forums on the Internet is that MOST of the time you are judged by your intellect, wit, and personality instead of your looks & physique. That being said, in any situation or surroundings you will find those who are less accepting of others. My suggestion is to write off the jerks and focus your energies on those who are more in sync with you mentally & spiritually.

02-26-2005, 02:38 PM	#24 (permalink)
CandleInTheDark Addict Location: Where the music's loudest	Yes Rdr4evr, I'm more than content to let the non-complainers be. If you're happy with yourself awesome. If you're not and you can change yourself, but don't (try), then don't expect sympathy and acceptance. __________________ Where there is doubt there is freedom.

02-26-2005, 03:41 PM	#25 (permalink)
canuckguy I read your emails. Location: earth	i only remember seeing one post about "fat" thingy. I think it was in the living section were some bloke wanted info on how to help is gf lose weight. if i remember correctly everyone was very supportive with no negative views towards the weight thing...now the post was another story i think...hehe

02-26-2005, 03:56 PM	#26 (permalink)
Demeter Psycho	Bah, if no one likes the junk in my trunk, its their loss. Shake it off alicat. Accept yourself and noone will be able to get to you.

02-26-2005, 04:30 PM	#27 (permalink)
canuckguy I read your emails. Location: earth	Not to thread jack, but i want to add the opposite, when i was younger, 13-24 (am 29 now) I was constantly teased by family and friends and whoever for being so skinny. I was about 6ft, 140lbs in college and it was a running joke. Never bothered me i guess, expect that it got a bit old. Now that i am older i've got up to as high as 230, but sit around 195-200lbs. I remember how good it felt to be called tubby when i was at 230 from a couple of mates. I always remember being skinny and never want to be at that stage again. I use to eat a full dinner, seconds, then a couple of sandwichs before bed as i was always hunger (young boys eh). I know this is the complete opposite of this situation but i feel i can relate in this opposite way. gotta live life for you, not anyone else.........unless you have kids then its about them.

02-26-2005, 04:54 PM	#28 (permalink)
Squishor Frontal Lobe Location: California	When I was younger I was stick-skinny...since I have small breasts and a youthful appearance, I got lots of comments along the lines that I looked like I wasn't done developing yet, looked like a 12-year old, etc. Some of these comments were very insulting and demeaning. I've been repeatedly told I'm "not a real woman." I'll never forget the day I was in a cafe telling some friends a story and some guy walked up, grabbed my jacket and opened it up to show my chest, and said, "What's the matter, they cut your tits off?" Heavy people might think life is perfect if you're small but the truth is people will find some way to be hurtful no matter what you look like. Because of the way I was made to feel because of my body shape, I am sympathetic on this issue. I also feel that since I've never been fat, I have no right to speak on the subject and cannot possibly understand the challenges obese people face. In my opinion, it's just out of line to make comments on people's appearance (unless it's to compliment somebody). I may not like the way someone looks but I will accept their right to exist the way they are without me butting in.

02-26-2005, 07:07 PM	#30 (permalink)
flamingdog Still fighting it.	Likewise, I can see at least two or three posts in this thread that go to support alicat's statement.

02-26-2005, 07:09 PM	#31 (permalink)
Lasereth Knight of the Old Republic Location: Winston-Salem, NC	I do get rightly pissed off when comments are made against fat people. A majority of the non-fat asses in this world think that if you're fat, it's your own damn fault and that you caused it. Ha! There is such a thing as genetics. There is such a thing as differing metabolic rates. I'm fat but it doesn't bother me. I know that the only way for me to lose weight is to exercise a ton and eat completely healthy and in small quantities. One premise that I will NOT let slide is the fact that some people's metabolic rates are different than others. My friends in high school sat on their asses and played videogames all day. At lunch they'd eat two slices of pizza, french fries, icecream, and a drink. I'd eat the main item and the side item and tea. They never gained a pound and remainded skinny. If I varied from my two-item diet, I'd gain weight in no-time flat. Some people simply gain weight and lose weight faster than others. Some people can eat whatever they want for their entire lives without gaining weight. Another aforementioned topic is being born fat. My grandpa and my dad are fat. I was born fat and always have been fat. I was down to eating barely anything all day in high school and still remained over 200 pounds. Now I eat what I want and have levelled off at around 260 being 5'10". I wouldn't be skinny eating a normal diet...I simply wouldn't. My point? Diets do affect how fat you are, but it only goes so far for some people. Before you decide that a person is fat because they eat too much, try to remember that some people are born with low metabolic rates. It's not stuffing our faces that makes all fat people big -- it's simply their genetic build. I'm personally glad there are fat people in this world -- I think chubby girls are 1000% cuter than skinny girls. To all of the chubby girls out there: you're hot. -Lasereth __________________ "A Darwinian attacks his theory, seeking to find flaws. An ID believer defends his theory, seeking to conceal flaws." -Roger Ebert

02-26-2005, 07:11 PM	#32 (permalink)
bernadette ::::::::::::::::::::::::: :. Location: this ain't kansas, toto	oh boy... sticky sticky topic. chin up, alicat. just be your best in every way as best you can. hugs __________________ .:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.

02-26-2005, 07:28 PM	#34 (permalink)
NotMVH Guest	Live your life however. It shows maturity to accept that everyone is entitled to their opinion. Past opinions, what I know to be true may not be true to you and we each learn to deal with that dynamic. I know that the majority of people who are obese could overcome it and get their wheight down to a healthy level if they had the commitment and desire to do so even if it took years. If they don't, that's fine. They live with the consequences of being obese. I have been overwheight and through being active at work and casually lifting wheights, I turned my 6'7" body into the mean fighting machine it is now.

02-26-2005, 07:29 PM	#35 (permalink)
CandleInTheDark Addict Location: Where the music's loudest	Can you tell me a condition where you can gain fat while still being in a caloric defecit? Your body can't produce fat out of nowhere. I'm willing to concede there is a genetic component. But I believe you are exagerrating it's effects. Metabolic rates certainly differ; but that would only effect the time it takes to burn calories. It may take someone with a slow metabolic rate longer to shed fatty tissue, but it's not going to prevent someone on a caloric defecit from losing that tissue. Do they have to become "skinny" (which isn't a much healthier state)? No. But then neither should they be complaining about it. I'm not going to respect and accept someone when they complain about something they want changed, and do nothing to see that change happen. Do all obese people do this? No. But I suspect the majority do, just like many non obese people. Being obese is not akin to being black, white, gay, straight, Canadian, or mentally retarded. Your colour, nationality (largely), and sexuality are not the result of your choices. Obesity (in almost every case) is. __________________ Where there is doubt there is freedom.

02-26-2005, 07:56 PM	#38 (permalink)
pocon1 Banned	From healthierus.gov: Fitness problems such as obesity and overweight have reached truly epidemic proportions in the United States. In the last 10 years, obesity rates have increased by more than 60 percent among adults. In 1999, 61 percent of the adult population was either overweight or obese. The obesity epidemic impacts other diseases as well. For example, the incidence of type 2 diabetes, a major consequence of obesity, is on the rise. Among U.S. adults, diagnosed diabetes increased 49 percent from 1990 to 2000. The rate of increase in overweight among young people has been even steeper. This is particularly troubling since many of the behaviors that lead to adult obesity are established during childhood. Just 10 years ago, type 2 diabetes was virtually unknown in children and adolescents. Indeed, the medical community commonly referred to the condition as "adult onset diabetes." Today, it accounts for almost 50 percent of new cases of pediatric diabetes in some communities. Medical complications associated with obesity in children can lead to hospitalizations for type 2 diabetes, sleep apnea, and asthma. Since 1980, the percentage of children who are overweight has nearly doubled, and the percentage of adolescents who are overweight has nearly tripled. Almost 9 million young Americans, or about 15 percent of all children, are overweight. http://my.webmd.com/content/article/64/72524.htm May 15, 2003 - The health care costs associated with obesity now rival those attributable to smoking, according to a new study. Researchers say obesity costs in the U.S. totaled up to $92.6 billion last year, and government-funded public insurers Medicare and Medicaid financed about half of those expenses. Lasereth, if genetics play such a large role in obesity, then why the massive shift upwards in only 10 years? Are we evolving that quickly? BTW, I have seen your list of video games, it is pretty impressive. You must spend a fair amount of time playing. How many hours do all of us spend in front of the computer each day? How many at TFP alone? I know I spend a fair amount of time here, time that could be spent doing something more active. Now who's fault is that? Well I guess my own, same thing when I had a Haagen Daz ice cream bar just now. No one was holding a gun to my head. The point is that diet and obesity is something that individual people control. Not society, not strictly genetics. So your metabolism is a little different. So what. I have an alcoholic uncle, and my sister can be a little bit of a lush and she smokes. I could have an addictive personality, but I make decisions that benefit me. I don't drink, I don't smoke, and I try to control my weight. Suck it up and drive on. Now as far as other fat people in society, they are costing me and you a lot of money. We pushed people to quit smoking. That became socially unacceptable (to smoke). Now I think it is selfish to create this epidemic that is trying to bankrupt the country and creates a tremendous strain on society. BTW, my mom has type 2 diabetes, Though she was a strong and healthy chubby, she still developed a lifestyle disease that puts a lot of stress on her life. Watch her shoot insulin sometime.

02-26-2005, 08:01 PM	#39 (permalink)
Lasereth Knight of the Old Republic Location: Winston-Salem, NC	Pocon, I do accept that in the past 10-15 years that the US has undergone a fat revolution. This doesn't change the fact that not every single fat person has made themselves fat. Nothing will change metabolic rates. Nothing. Anyone denying a difference in metabolic rates in people is denying a difference in genetics period. I do play a lot of videogames and I don't exercise. I'm fat. I didn't say that my fatitude wasn't caused by it. I'm simply saying that before, I used to control what I ate and I was not skinny. Other people do NOT control what they eat and are skinny and do even less exercise than I do. That's hardcore proof that genetics DO play a role in fatness. -Lasereth __________________ "A Darwinian attacks his theory, seeking to find flaws. An ID believer defends his theory, seeking to conceal flaws." -Roger Ebert

02-26-2005, 08:04 PM	#40 (permalink)
pocon1 Banned	A pound of muscle burns an average of 30-to-50 calories a day, regardless of whether is is being used that particular day. A pound of fat needs less then ten calories a day to maintain itself as fat. More muscle, greater metabolic rate. That is why as people typically get weaker as they get older, their metabolism slows down. Maintain or increase muscle, and your metabolism stays elevated. Also, metabolic rates obviously changed in the population, otherwise people would not have gotten fatter.