Stupid Motorists Law - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Psycho Dad · 02-18-2005, 05:56 AM

Quote:

Stupid motorists, beware
County to invoke law, charge for Cave Creek flood rescue

Holly Johnson
The Arizona Republic
Feb. 17, 2005 12:00 AM

SCOTTSDALE - The Maricopa County Sheriff's Office will invoke the state's "stupid motorist law" for the first time, after a Cave Creek man drove around traffic barricades and tried to cross a flooded street last week in his Hummer.

The driver, Paul Zalewski, 47, reportedly ignored warnings not to enter Creek Canyon Road in Cave Creek on Friday.

But "Hummers are made to float," sheriff's spokesman Lt. Paul Chagolla said. "Other people told him not to go in there, and he did it anyway," endangering himself and six passengers, including three children.

Zalewski was cited for reckless driving. If he is found guilty of the charge in Cave Creek Municipal Court, he will be prosecuted under the state's stupid motorist law, which was passed in 1995 and requires drivers to reimburse the state for the cost of rescues.

Sheriff's spokesman Sgt. Travis Anglin said the cost of the 55-minute rescue could exceed $800, based on hourly rates for fuel and maintenance of the rescue helicopter, two employees inside the aircraft, insurance and any damage sustained during rescue.

Maricopa County Sheriff Joe Arpaio is considering charging another Cave Creek resident, Jacqueline Goodspeed, 65, for entering a flooded area near 58th Street and Desert Hills Drive despite warnings from officers.

Neither Zalewski or Goodspeed have yet been charged, but Arpaio said Wednesday that he intends to "pursue the law" if they are found guilty of reckless driving.

"We basically have people who were told not to go around barricades, and they went anyway. It's rather stupid," he said.

But that doesn't mean stranded motorists shouldn't call for help.

"It's not worth dying over the possibility of getting a ticket," Arpaio said. "We want people to use common sense." With more strong storms expected to hit this weekend, more than 600 sheriff's volunteers are on standby.

After wet weather dumped two inches of rain over the Valley over the past week, the sheriff's posses had a record-breaking number of rescues: 21 people, including 7 children, and three dogs.

Wednesday the Sheriff's Office assisted the Phoenix Fire Department in the rescue of a man from a flooded truck near 91st Avenue and Baseline Road, near the Salt River basin.

"It's a very serious situation," Arpaio said. "We're predicting more flooding in the washes and rivers, but we're proactive. We're ready to go."

Water rescues involve painstaking precision by both pilots and rescuers; helicopters fly directly over stranded vehicles and airlift victims to safety one at a time. One skid rests and balances on the vehicle, allowing rescuers to scoop up victims, while the other skid hovers above the water.

Wet, precarious surfaces and the risk of electrical shock make the task a dangerous one for rescuers, Anglin said. And "every single time it rains, somebody does this.

"And it's always the same washes. If an H2 and a tractor-trailer and a front-loader can't make it through these washes, your car isn't going to."

I'd like to see this kind of thing catch on. If people were held to some degree of accountablity for their actions, perhaps incidents like this would dwindle. Of course laws like this would have to be used wisely and not be abused. For example causing an accident by speeding should be handled under current guidlines and not have something like this thrown on top.

But in situations where a proper warning has been issued, I think this is a good idea. Want to drive around the barricades and you get washed away? Pay for it. Want to ski that killer powder during an avalanch warning and need the Saint Bernards? Pay for it.

wolf · 02-18-2005, 06:38 AM

Two words.... BASE Jumping.

Those bastards are freakin nuts. "Do not jump off of bridge" - Hey lets jump off of this bridge!

Cynthetiq · 02-18-2005, 07:01 AM

Depending on country, state, county, parish, district, etc. some places will charge for emergency services.

In Singapore my sister was taken to hospital via ambulance and the cost of running the siren was EXTRA. Usually the charges are listed and picked up by the insurance companies, but I'm all for the insurance companies saying, "No I'm not paying for that, you did something STUPID and were told EXPLICITLY not to and you did anyways."

Psycho Dad · 02-18-2005, 07:20 AM

Paying for ambulance services is quite common. This takes the next step of paying for the police and rescue staff that could be better used if someone hadn't tried to support Darwin.

f6twister · 02-18-2005, 08:55 AM

I would like to see this expanded to cover stupid people in general, not just drivers. People who call 911 instead of 411 and people who smoke while working on a gas tank for example. I figure about a $250 fine plus costs would help these types of people think a little more before acting.

genuinegirly · 02-18-2005, 09:05 AM

We need a law like this in California!

Quote:

Originally Posted by f6twister

I would like to see this expanded to cover stupid people in general, not just drivers. People who call 911 instead of 411 and people who smoke while working on a gas tank for example. I figure about a $250 fine plus costs would help these types of people think a little more before acting.

Great idea... thinking this could prevent numerous frivilous lawsuits.

mazagmot · 02-19-2005, 09:05 AM

We need to teach stupid people not to be stupid, first. That will prevent frivolous lawsuits. Especially jurors in these cases. If the coffee's hot, don't sticke between your legs, you moron. If you award that moron millions, part of it has to come from the jurors pockets.

cyrnel · 02-19-2005, 09:14 AM

Excellent!

Did it strike anyone else that $800 was very, very cheap? You couldn't hire trained private assistance w/equipment for that money.

betula · 02-19-2005, 10:58 PM

Yeah, I thought $800 seemed quite low. C'mon, it's a freaking helicopter coming out there, that's got to be more expensive than that! Sounds like a good law to me... idiots that put themselves into harm's way should be saved, but also should pay for the rescue.

asudevil83 · 02-20-2005, 04:34 PM

i thought that arizona had been enforcing the "stupid motorist law" thing quite a bit. you wouldnt believe how many people press their luck and try to cross the washes. i swear that every time we get any measureable amount of rain two things highlight the news.
1.) its raining...its the biggest deal ever. you'd think that this rain is running for president or some shit like that.
2.) dumb people trying to cross washes.

people are warned everywhere. the news frequently tells people to watch the fuck out and dont be stupid. but us arizonans are pretty fucking stupid sometimes.

hosti|e · 02-20-2005, 06:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by f6twister

people who smoke while working on a gas tank for example. I figure about a $250 fine plus costs would help these types of people think a little more before acting.

Or we could just call it even after they get their face blown off by the resulting explosion

irseg · 02-20-2005, 07:01 PM

Just what does this "stupid motorist" law cover?

I'd love to see people be ticketed for driving endlessly in the left lane without passing (with an extra $50 for every mile per hour they're going under the speed limit), people who have the balls to pull out right in front of you but then don't feel safe enough to drive less than 10 mph under the speed limit, and people who slide into a ditch because they think their 4x4 SUV will help them stop/steer on an ice-covered road.

flstf · 02-20-2005, 08:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by asudevil83

i thought that arizona had been enforcing the "stupid motorist law" thing quite a bit. you wouldnt believe how many people press their luck and try to cross the washes. i swear that every time we get any measureable amount of rain two things highlight the news.
1.) its raining...its the biggest deal ever. you'd think that this rain is running for president or some shit like that.
2.) dumb people trying to cross washes.

people are warned everywhere. the news frequently tells people to watch the fuck out and dont be stupid. but us arizonans are pretty fucking stupid sometimes.

I spent about 6 months on a job in Tucson and I have never seen it rain as hard as it does in the desert when the monsoons come. We were stuck in our motel for three days because all the roads were washed out. The water runs through those washes like water runs off a hard table. Many folks were swept away that year. Those of us from other parts of the country have no appreciation for how fast the washes can nail you until we see it happen.

Tirian · 02-20-2005, 10:02 PM

If it's going to cover the too slow, it should certainly cover the too fast as well. It's not like they have to push the gas pedal down that far.

I think we have all been properly forwarned of the dangers of speed. If not we could install a voice box in your car to repeat "speed kills" over and over.

k925 · 02-22-2005, 12:44 AM

The stupid people law seems a little, well, stupid. Sounds like another way for the government to rob the lowly peasants of their money.

Sure, the article can pick on the guy with the hummer, but I'm sure that most of the people doing the stupid things are the poorest, least-educated, double-wide trailer dwelling, mullet-heads.

Where do they draw the line? If you drive into an intersection when the light is yellow, are you declared stupid? Does driving into a parked car make you an idiot? If you're smuggling drugs and run over three or four old ladies, does that make you an ignorant schmuck?

I mean, what differentiates a "stupid" crime from a regular crime?

The people driving around the barricades into the floodwaters should be charged with already-existing laws like evading a police officer or gross negligence in addition to reckless driving. Not with this crap they call a "stupid motorist law."

I guess they needed some new way to drain your pockets. The cops should just give you a bill, not a ticket.

Stupidity is in the eye of the beholder.

Psycho Dad · 02-22-2005, 04:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by k925

Sure, the article can pick on the guy with the hummer, but I'm sure that most of the people doing the stupid things are the poorest, least-educated, double-wide trailer dwelling, mullet-heads.

Wow. That trite generalization has got to be as about as far off the mark as anything I can imagine. You seem to suggest that poor people are among the dumbest people on earth. How much money, what education level, and what home must a person attain before they are no longer piss ignorant enough to use common sense?

nofnway · 02-23-2005, 10:20 PM

It all just boils down to common sense isn't

squirrelyburt · 02-24-2005, 06:22 AM

Oh my Gawd!!! If cops were allowed to write tickets to stupid people, they'd need a backpack full of ink for their pens, a number system, and tripling of their force!!! If they could shoot them, they'd run out of bullets!!

pocon1 · 02-24-2005, 11:34 AM

When I went hiking in the Grand Canyon 5 years ago, there were repeated warnings that long hikes in the canyon were risky and that you would be charged for rescue. They said the average helicopter rescue cost 4,000$ dollars. Of course, I hiked to the river and back from the rim. It took 9 hours, 16 miles, and 5,000 ft of elevation in each direction. You have to know what you are personally capapble of doing.

k925 · 02-24-2005, 11:36 PM

Psycho Dad, as this is your thread, I feel that I should apologize for my previous overly stereotypical and nearsighted sounding generalization. It was included in my post mostly to provide some comedic value and perhaps some sway toward to my argument, but in hindsight it was obviously not well executed.

I do maintain, however, that (especially in our materialistic society) lack of personal wealth might drive some people toward rash behavior.

A lack of education might cause some people to not think through other alternatives or possibilities in a complicated situation.

A lack of a good haircut (i.e. having a mullet) might cause some people to be self-conscious of their looks and feel the need to drive into some fast-moving flood wash. (That one was supposed to be funny.)

Of course I don't think poor or uneducated people are all dumb and have no common sense. Nor do I think rich and educated people are all smart and full of common sense. From experience, however, I have learned that one's environment and quality of life might have a reasonable effect his or her behavior and actions. This is common sense, is it not?

If you wish, please ignore that sentence in my previous post that I'm sorry I typed and comment on the other parts of the point I was attempting to make (which was that the law itself is stupid).

Anyway, back on topic,

Quote:

Originally Posted by pocon1

You have to know what you are personally capapble of doing.

So, pocon1, let's say you were on your long hike and accidentally slipped on some mule dung, broke your leg, and consequently required a helicopter rescue. Since they warned you about exactly that, would that make you stupid?

I don't think it would, but you'd still be charged with the rescue in addition to the fine from the "stupid people" ticket if that law were to apply to hikers as well as motorists.

The fact that the law only applies to the drivers trying to cross the washes is still needless since other charges could already apply (as I was trying to say before). If something like this were to branch out to other forms of "stupid" behavior, not only would lawsuits fly, but it would make the time I wasted on this post look like a black spec in a vast desert of white sand when compared with the wasted time and resources used to fight this unnecessary law.

arch13 · 02-25-2005, 12:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by k925

So, pocon1, let's say you were on your long hike and accidentally slipped on some mule dung, broke your leg, and consequently required a helicopter rescue. Since they warned you about exactly that, would that make you stupid?

I don't think it would, but you'd still be charged with the rescue in addition to the fine from the "stupid people" ticket if that law were to apply to hikers as well as motorists.

Actually, they just wouldn't come for you. I've hiked at the grand canyon before, and they really do make you sign the waiver.
And why shouldn't they? I don't recall reading in the constitution that there would always be someone there to save you.
You are lectured repeatedly about the dangers of the canyon, and then asked if you still want to do it. Most of the canyon cannot be accessed by helicopter, and it's a three day ride down by mule (horses become afraid on the thin trail). By the time they get to you, you are most likley dead from heat, exhaustion, and hypothermic nights.
In this world lacking personal responsability, that's still the ultimate responsability.
Accident or not, Your choice to hike will result in your death if you cannot get out on your own strength and stanima.

02-18-2005, 06:38 AM	#2 (permalink)
wolf Ravenous Location: Right Behind You	Two words.... BASE Jumping. Those bastards are freakin nuts. "Do not jump off of bridge" - Hey lets jump off of this bridge! __________________ Thousands of years ago, cats were worshipped as Gods. Cats have never forgotten this.

02-18-2005, 07:01 AM	#3 (permalink)
Cynthetiq Tilted Cat Head Administrator Location: Manhattan, NY	Depending on country, state, county, parish, district, etc. some places will charge for emergency services. In Singapore my sister was taken to hospital via ambulance and the cost of running the siren was EXTRA. Usually the charges are listed and picked up by the insurance companies, but I'm all for the insurance companies saying, "No I'm not paying for that, you did something STUPID and were told EXPLICITLY not to and you did anyways." __________________ I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not. What's the best nation in the world? DO-NATION!

02-18-2005, 07:20 AM	#4 (permalink)
Psycho Dad Mulletproof Location: Some nucking fut house.	Paying for ambulance services is quite common. This takes the next step of paying for the police and rescue staff that could be better used if someone hadn't tried to support Darwin. __________________ Don't always trust the opinions of experts.

02-18-2005, 08:55 AM	#5 (permalink)
f6twister Addict	I would like to see this expanded to cover stupid people in general, not just drivers. People who call 911 instead of 411 and people who smoke while working on a gas tank for example. I figure about a $250 fine plus costs would help these types of people think a little more before acting. __________________ A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wills and add drama to an otherwise dull day. Calvin

02-22-2005, 12:44 AM	#15 (permalink)
k925 Tilted Location: Inside an econobox	The stupid people law seems a little, well, stupid. Sounds like another way for the government to rob the lowly peasants of their money. Sure, the article can pick on the guy with the hummer, but I'm sure that most of the people doing the stupid things are the poorest, least-educated, double-wide trailer dwelling, mullet-heads. Where do they draw the line? If you drive into an intersection when the light is yellow, are you declared stupid? Does driving into a parked car make you an idiot? If you're smuggling drugs and run over three or four old ladies, does that make you an ignorant schmuck? I mean, what differentiates a "stupid" crime from a regular crime? The people driving around the barricades into the floodwaters should be charged with already-existing laws like evading a police officer or gross negligence in addition to reckless driving. Not with this crap they call a "stupid motorist law." I guess they needed some new way to drain your pockets. The cops should just give you a bill, not a ticket. Stupidity is in the eye of the beholder. __________________ I can has furburger?

02-19-2005, 09:05 AM	#7 (permalink)
mazagmot Crazy Location: S. Korea	We need to teach stupid people not to be stupid, first. That will prevent frivolous lawsuits. Especially jurors in these cases. If the coffee's hot, don't sticke between your legs, you moron. If you award that moron millions, part of it has to come from the jurors pockets.

02-19-2005, 09:14 AM	#8 (permalink)
cyrnel Adequate Location: In my angry-dome.	Excellent! Did it strike anyone else that $800 was very, very cheap? You couldn't hire trained private assistance w/equipment for that money.

02-19-2005, 10:58 PM	#9 (permalink)
betula Upright Location: Buffalo, NY	Yeah, I thought $800 seemed quite low. C'mon, it's a freaking helicopter coming out there, that's got to be more expensive than that! Sounds like a good law to me... idiots that put themselves into harm's way should be saved, but also should pay for the rescue.

02-20-2005, 04:34 PM	#10 (permalink)
asudevil83 Psycho Location: Scottsdale, AZ	i thought that arizona had been enforcing the "stupid motorist law" thing quite a bit. you wouldnt believe how many people press their luck and try to cross the washes. i swear that every time we get any measureable amount of rain two things highlight the news. 1.) its raining...its the biggest deal ever. you'd think that this rain is running for president or some shit like that. 2.) dumb people trying to cross washes. people are warned everywhere. the news frequently tells people to watch the fuck out and dont be stupid. but us arizonans are pretty fucking stupid sometimes.

02-20-2005, 07:01 PM	#12 (permalink)
irseg Junkie Location: Florida	Just what does this "stupid motorist" law cover? I'd love to see people be ticketed for driving endlessly in the left lane without passing (with an extra $50 for every mile per hour they're going under the speed limit), people who have the balls to pull out right in front of you but then don't feel safe enough to drive less than 10 mph under the speed limit, and people who slide into a ditch because they think their 4x4 SUV will help them stop/steer on an ice-covered road.

02-20-2005, 10:02 PM	#14 (permalink)
Tirian Addict Location: Canada	If it's going to cover the too slow, it should certainly cover the too fast as well. It's not like they have to push the gas pedal down that far. I think we have all been properly forwarned of the dangers of speed. If not we could install a voice box in your car to repeat "speed kills" over and over.

02-23-2005, 10:20 PM	#17 (permalink)
nofnway Insane Location: under the freeway bridge	It all just boils down to common sense isn't __________________ "Iron rusts with disuse, stagnant water loses its purity and in cold water freezes. Even so does inaction sap the vigor of the mind" Leonardo Da Vinci

02-24-2005, 06:22 AM	#18 (permalink)
squirrelyburt Crazy Location: Central Wisconsin	Oh my Gawd!!! If cops were allowed to write tickets to stupid people, they'd need a backpack full of ink for their pens, a number system, and tripling of their force!!! If they could shoot them, they'd run out of bullets!! __________________ If you've ever felt there was a reason to be afraid of the dark, you were right.

02-24-2005, 11:34 AM	#19 (permalink)
pocon1 Banned	When I went hiking in the Grand Canyon 5 years ago, there were repeated warnings that long hikes in the canyon were risky and that you would be charged for rescue. They said the average helicopter rescue cost 4,000$ dollars. Of course, I hiked to the river and back from the rim. It took 9 hours, 16 miles, and 5,000 ft of elevation in each direction. You have to know what you are personally capapble of doing.