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Old 01-12-2005, 09:22 AM   #1 (permalink)
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The Poverty Line

Quote:
N.Y. tripping over
poverty line - study

BY JOSE MARTINEZ
DAILY NEWS STAFF WRITER

The federal government's measuring stick on poverty is way out of whack in New York, according to a report released yesterday.
The national poverty line for a family of three is $15,670 a year, which is barely enough to make rent in the city, according to the "2004 Self Sufficiency Standards for the City of New York."

The report, put out by the United Way of New York City and the Women's Center for Education and Career Advancement, said a single New Yorker with two kids needs nearly $50,000 to get by. And that would cover only such basics as food, housing and health care.

"None of the things that many of us take for granted on a daily basis are included," said the director of the Women's Center, Merble Reagon, citing cell phones, movie tickets and gifts.

The report provides a borough-by-borough breakdown of how much money families and individuals need to make ends meet.

A Bronx family of three needs at least $49,874, while it takes $77,957 in wealthier areas of Manhattan.

"We would love to make $50,000," said Jaritza Martinez, a Bronx mom whose family takes in $36,000 annually. "We barely have enough for rent, supplies for the house and that's about it."

The report paints a bleaker picture than four years ago, when a parent with two kids could get by on $43,237. But housing costs have gone up between 19% and 40%, according to the report.

"What you see is a picture of people being squeezed by high housing costs and low wages," said James Parrott, deputy director of the Fiscal Policy Institute.
One of the things that fascinates me is looking at how people are dealing with expenditures. I don't understand how a family of 4 goes to the ball park without spending over $150 per game between tickets, food, and souveniers.

What does it take to run a household? You've got rent, electricty, food, etc. But what about disposable luxury income things like movie rentals, video games, cellphones, pagers, etc. I see plenty of poor people with food stamps having plenty flashy cellphones...upon visiting their house they have TV, VCR... a far cry from the long ago NYC tenemants of 10-12 people living in a small room with little or no belongings.

I know for sure that even with roommates living off of $15,670 is not going to cut it living in NYC.

If $15,670 as the poverty line in the US... and it supposed to be "A Bronx family of three needs at least $49,874, while it takes $77,957 in wealthier areas of Manhattan." what does it take in your part of the world?
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Old 01-12-2005, 09:28 AM   #2 (permalink)
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I've always wondered about this, Cynthetiq. I interviewed for a job at NYU several years ago, and the salary was about the same as what I was making in Alabama. I remember thinking that I couldn't even come close to living in Manhattan on that salary, which was barely comfortable in Alabama as it was.

And is the reverse true? Is someone making $80,000 in Manhattan going to automatically balk at $70,000 in Alabama (which is enough to live extremely comfortably here)?
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Old 01-12-2005, 09:32 AM   #3 (permalink)
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The cost of living in Southern Arizona is dirt cheap, i dont have any figures in front of me, but you could stay well fed with a small apartment for less than 10K a year easily. I only make about 25K a year and i live like a king.
 
Old 01-12-2005, 09:34 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by warrrreagl
I've always wondered about this, Cynthetiq. I interviewed for a job at NYU several years ago, and the salary was about the same as what I was making in Alabama. I remember thinking that I couldn't even come close to living in Manhattan on that salary, which was barely comfortable in Alabama as it was.

And is the reverse true? Is someone making $80,000 in Manhattan going to automatically balk at $70,000 in Alabama (which is enough to live extremely comfortably here)?
I have had friends move down to Florida or California and continue to get paid their NY salaries... they lived like kings in comparison. When they lost their jobs for whatever reasons, they couldn't find a job paying the same scale, so they moved back to NYC or scaled their lifestyle back accordingly.

It's one of the reasons why I'd like to get expatriated to another country preferably a poorer country where the exchange rate would be very much in my favor.
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Old 01-12-2005, 09:35 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by warrrreagl
And is the reverse true? Is someone making $80,000 in Manhattan going to automatically balk at $70,000 in Alabama (which is enough to live extremely comfortably here)?
Not anyone wiht any sense Most people in the NY area, which includes a lot of towns in NJ and Connecticut wiht commutable distances to NYC and even Boston and it's commutable areas, have a very high cost of living, we know darn well if we moved else where - it would be a lot cheaper to live...

There are salary calculators on the web, that tell you what you would need to make somewhere else if you were making XX dollars in another city - it's interesting results.
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Old 01-12-2005, 09:37 AM   #6 (permalink)
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It certainly doesn't cost $49,000 to live where I am. I make less than that, still make all of my payments and have enough to cover my cable, internet access & cell phone. There are areas of the state and even the county I live in which have a higher cost of living. Because I can't afford that area, I don't live there. Maybe some people who can't make it in the Bronx should consider moving to a cheaper area of the county, state or country.
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Old 01-12-2005, 09:42 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Warsaw, Poland:

As a student that has lost a parent, I get a monthly check for 142 $ (more or less, all the values have been calculeted from polish zloty into US dollars). Other then that, I get 60 $ a month from my grandfather. I'm not working now, but I'll start to any day. A minimum monthly wage is around 200 $, while the average wage is around 300-500 $. Student scholarships give you an extra 200 $ at best (I don't have one). I get by with this money, though hardly. Lucky for me, I don't have to pey rent for my apartment, as I'm sure I couldn't keep it up.

As far as the costs go, an average apartment in Warsaw will cost you anything from 300-500 $. The minimum amount of money I spend on food each day is around 5 $, though if I try, I can go on for less. I have a car running on LPG gas, which means that I can do 300 kilometres for around 17 $. Still, I hardly keep up with the maintanance costs. I had a mobile (monthly cost around 30 $) Keep in mind, though, that I'm a univeristy student, which means I'm in the poorest part of the society, as I spend most of my days studying, most of my nights drinking, and most of my mornings wondering where to get some money for the next meal.

To keep things into perspective: a meal in McDonalds costs around 3$. A large Pizza at Pizza Hut costs around 9$. A liter of fuel costs around a 1$. A cinema ticket costs around 2$. A new PS 2 game costs around 60$.

I'm sure I could live very comfortably in Warsaw for around a 1000 $ a month.
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Old 01-12-2005, 09:45 AM   #8 (permalink)
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I make 35k a year and I pay all my bills...mortgage, equity loan (from where I paid off my credit cards when I tore them up and got rid of them years ago) all the utility bills, food, cell phones (I could manage a car payment if I HAD to, but I dont have one at the moment) and I still have money left for fun.
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Old 01-12-2005, 03:31 PM   #9 (permalink)
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If I wanted to, I could live decently off of $750 a month, provided I lived with roommates in a relatively cheap part of town (but dear God, not the North East). It'd be about 300-350/month for rent and utilities, another 200 budgeted for food (which is actually quite a bit), and the rest for entertainment/internet/transportation.
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Old 01-12-2005, 05:32 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Wow $45,000 would be twice as much as we need here in Northern Wisconsin. We don't make more than about $25,000 and live fairly comfortably and bought a house this year. No we didn't buy a brand new house and no we don't eat steak every night but we can handle our bills ok and we even get cable television and internet. If we had $45,000 a year we'd be feelin RICH. A factory job around here is about $11/hr and that's a pretty good paying job. Regular jobs like cell phone sales, secretarial, clerical things run around $8-10/hr depending on your qualifications and responsibilities. Before we bought our house we were renting at about $435/mo. Rent is going up but still isn't that much. Rent this year would have been $545/mo heat and water included.

Personally, I can't imagine staying in a city where the income for my skills (elementary education degree) wasn't enough to pay for my needs. I realize relocating isn't cheap either but you do what you can to change what's happening.
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Old 01-12-2005, 05:46 PM   #11 (permalink)
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The poverty line is completely meaningless. The cost of living clearly varies a great deal around the country and much more so around the world.

A few years ago John Stossel did a story on the so-called poverty line. The overwhelming majority of people living under the poverty line around the country have material goods that would have placed them in the upper middle class 50 years ago or in other countries around the world.
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Old 01-12-2005, 06:09 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thinktank
I only make about 25K a year and i live like a king.
I live in a fairly modest home near Boulder, Colorado and that would just make my mortgage payment and electric bill. A family of 3 living on $15,670 would be doing so in their car parked under a viaduct.
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Old 01-12-2005, 07:12 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Here in NJ we can barely make our mortgage and bills with over $65k gross a year. Granted, we have cell phones and cable-they run us about $170 total a month. But, because of the high cost of surviving after I lost my job last year, feeding and clothing 2 kids, we ended up running up our credit cards and it's hard to get those down. Any place else, we'd be doing pretty well on this-here, it's panic time every week.
I saw that John Stossel piece-families in the Bronx with bare mattresses, but VCR's and large tv's, etc. I don't see how the area of the Bronx he was in could possibly be considered the 'poorest area in the US'.
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Old 01-13-2005, 03:00 PM   #14 (permalink)
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I'm too em-bare-assed to say how little money I live on.
Thank something my rent is only 176 Euros/month.
I've lived in the same apartment for about 20 years.
This year I won't have enough money to keep my health ins.
Big drag, my health sucks.
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Old 01-13-2005, 03:26 PM   #15 (permalink)
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I guess Mrs Mephisto and I are very lucky.

I make a lot of money working as a consultant for a very large multi-national. They've just asked me to go permanent with them after four years and whilst this will result in around a 40%-30% paycut, I'll still be very comfortable. Mrs Mephisto is a highly qualified physiotherapist and makes a good wage too. We've just bought a block of land on the riverfront in Perth and are going to build in the next year. Mrs Mephisto is also thinking of buying her own practice. This will put our combined loans at around $800K, and we can make our payments without too much difficulty.

Sometimes you just don't know how good you have it until you look around you.


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Old 01-13-2005, 04:21 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Oh my God Mr_Mephisto, are you really moving to Perth? Cool, it's so far away from.....everything. Where do you guys reside now? I just assumed you were in either Sydney, Melbourne or Canberra.

By the way, what does "consultant" mean? I was always curious about what you did.
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Old 01-13-2005, 04:56 PM   #17 (permalink)
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I'm been here in Perth for six months already mate!

Consultant is a fancy term for anyone who is paid on an hourly basis.

I'm global Programme Manager - Wireless Networking Strategy and Architecture, for a large US multi-national.

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Old 01-13-2005, 05:12 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Those numbers quoted for NYC are utter crap. I can assure you my family of 4 would have been well below they're minimum, while owning our own house, 2 cars, going to private school and living living in a nice part of Brooklyn.

I hava ton of friends who would below their standard of "poverty", including a friend of mine, with a family of 8 (yeah that's right) lived on about $60k or so just fine, while owning their house.

If they're definition of poverty is not driving a jaguar, not eating out at fancy restaurants, or not having a ski-doo, then where do I sign up for welfare.

NYC is more expensive then, say, Tennesee, but it's not as bad as they're making it out to be.
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Old 01-13-2005, 07:14 PM   #19 (permalink)
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I live in downtown Atlanta and I live very comfortably on 47K a year. My rent is $609 a month but I could live somewhere much cheaper it just wouldn't be as nice a place. I can basically live on 1 out of my 2 paychecks a month right now. However I don't have a car payment at the moment (parents gave me an old car when I graduated from Tech last May) and that may change by next year. I'd still be putting away a lot of my paycheck though.
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Old 01-14-2005, 04:26 AM   #20 (permalink)
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where abouts downtown are you living madcow?
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Old 01-14-2005, 05:34 AM   #21 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hilbert25
Those numbers quoted for NYC are utter crap. I can assure you my family of 4 would have been well below they're minimum, while owning our own house, 2 cars, going to private school and living living in a nice part of Brooklyn.

I hava ton of friends who would below their standard of "poverty", including a friend of mine, with a family of 8 (yeah that's right) lived on about $60k or so just fine, while owning their house.

If they're definition of poverty is not driving a jaguar, not eating out at fancy restaurants, or not having a ski-doo, then where do I sign up for welfare.

NYC is more expensive then, say, Tennesee, but it's not as bad as they're making it out to be.
I don't know what housing costs are in brooklyn but i live in queens and couldn't find a one bedroom apartment for less than $1000/month. I don't think the numbers are that far off.
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Old 01-14-2005, 01:59 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hilbert25
Those numbers quoted for NYC are utter crap. I can assure you my family of 4 would have been well below they're minimum, while owning our own house, 2 cars, going to private school and living living in a nice part of Brooklyn.

I hava ton of friends who would below their standard of "poverty", including a friend of mine, with a family of 8 (yeah that's right) lived on about $60k or so just fine, while owning their house.

If they're definition of poverty is not driving a jaguar, not eating out at fancy restaurants, or not having a ski-doo, then where do I sign up for welfare.

NYC is more expensive then, say, Tennesee, but it's not as bad as they're making it out to be.
Once one has a house quite honestly then it's relatively easy in comparison. Renting one has to deal with increases, where if one did not get a adjustable rate mortgage or a balloon mortgage one could easily live off of $60,000 in todays market.

But there are plenty of people I know of who make a combined income of $40k and have a hard time making ends meet living in Queens and Brooklyn
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Old 01-15-2005, 09:08 AM   #23 (permalink)
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I think most people spend what they make. And if they begin earning more, they spend more eventually.
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Old 01-15-2005, 10:11 AM   #24 (permalink)
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Here is an interesting link where you can type in how much you make, where you live now, and where you are going to move to. It will then tell you how much you will have to make in order to maintain the same standard of living you have now.

http://www.bestplaces.net/col/col.aspx

For example, someone making $60,000 where I live now (Orange County, CA) could live on $39,659 in Des Moines, IA and have the same standard of living.
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Old 01-15-2005, 11:10 AM   #25 (permalink)
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when i lived in pittsburgh (oakland--hardly the nicest area, but cheap and close to school) i needed about $500 per month to pay my share of rent and utilities on a two bedroom apt i shared with one other person. that provided us rent, electric, phone, cable and internet.

i currently live in west virginia and a two bedroom house with the same utilities plus gas ran just a little less--about $850 total. if i had been willing to downgrade my housing standard (to a house falling apart or in a really nasty area of town) i could have cut that down by another $50-100. oddly enough, an apt of the same standard as my house would have upped my needs by about $200 per month.

15k around here isn't bad money, but unless you are living cheap and alone it would be tight depending on how many other bills you have.
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