pan6467

Ok, so I'm pissed and mad as hell at the University of Akron.

I went with 1 sole purpose to become an addictions counsellor. I went to advising before my 1st semester (Last Spring) and they put me in 3 classes they said I needed.
I went at the end of last semester TOLD the fucking advisor what I wanted to do. He fucking acted like he had no idea what I was talking about and told me I needed to go through a Community Services program for 2 years get my Associate's, then get a Bachelor's in Social Work and then take advantage of the accelerated Master's of Social Work program they offer. Again, he plotted out my schedule as I sat and believed what he had to say, because I thought he understood what I wanted and knew the best way for me to get it.

Today, I'm sitting in my Intro to Addictions class (which is the only addictions class I have taken so far because these dumbfucks, who are supposed to help me, don't know what the fuck they are doing). Class starts and the prof. hands out the requirements for getting liscensed as a Chemical Addictions Counsellor in the state of Ohio are.

Lo and fucking behold, I could have the whole fucking thing done in 2 fucking semesters and take my liscensing test and be liscensed. So I'm thinking these dumbfucks are running a fucking scam on me, by having me take 2 years worth of classes that won't get me liscensed, then I'll have to add another semester and a half or 2 to make up for the Addictions classes to meet the requirements to get fucking liscensed when I could already be liscensed have a job as a counsellor AND then be working for my LiSW or MSW.

So I'm truly fucking pissed because I told these fucks what I wanted and I believed what they told me, because it is their fucking job in advising to know what the fuck a person needs to get what he wants.

I don't need a degree in Social Work or Community Services all I fucking need is the 27 credit hours of mandatory classes and to take a fucking liscensing test.

So I'm running up fucking loans and fucking time because of this. Tomorrow, since I started working in the Community Services department as an office boy, I'm going to talk to the head of the department and ask her if she can fix this situation by getting me into the right classes and dropping the fucking classes I don't need.

Sorry for my rant, just truly feel I've been fucked without the courtesy of them using K-Y on me and needed to blow off some steam.

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I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

MooseMan3000

Have you considered that you might need prerequisites for the classes you need for a license? That maybe, just maybe, they know what classes you need to GET those classes? I might be completely off base here, but it sounds like you haven't done a lot of research YOURSELF, and you're getting mad because you don't actually KNOW what you need. "He told me this" and "they said that" and "but someone else says something else." Have you tried looking into getting a license yourself?

amonkie

To go off what MooseMan said, many colleges require classes beyond what is specifically related to your subject of interest. In your case, you said you needed 27 hours of addictions training for the licensing, but in most cases a undergraduate degree is supposed to also encompass a liberal arts education of some sort as well. The best compromise might be to realize that you are gaining education of related issues that may make you more sensitive to issues concerning addictions that might not instantly seem obvious, ie having to take an economics class, which might give you a little more information how what most human beings dictate to be rational decision making. And yes, being in debt does most certainly suck, but the payoffs for a career that can support you doing something you are very interested hopefully are much higher, or you wouldn't be doing this in the first place.

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Calling from deep in the heart, from where the eyes can't see and the ears can't hear, from where the mountain trails end and only love can go... ~~~ Three Rivers Hare Krishna

Rekna

Every college i've ever seen has a catalog that contains all the courses and all the requirements for a degree. Have you looked that the catalog? A lot of times they are long and confusing but reading it a couple times usually helps.

shakran

I'm going with the Moose on this one. College is supposed to be about learning to get through life without someone having to hold your hand. Why would you trust your entire future to someone you've never met and of whom you know nothing about? The advisor's role is not to plan your whole life for you - it's to help you if YOU make a mistake in YOUR plans. There's no way that there wasn't some brochure, flyer, memo, or note in the registration handbook that tells you what classes you need to complete a specific major.

If you're so unmotivated that you didn't even bother to look at that stuff, then you have no call running around bitching about someone who's stake in this matter is far less than yours.

uncle phil

not to mention the fact that one needs to be able to submit case-notes written in proper english before a family-court judge...as well as whatever else the court says you need to submit...with the associated research involved...

__________________
"We were wrong, terribly wrong. (We) should not have tried to fight a guerrilla war with conventional military tactics against a foe willing to absorb enormous casualties...in a country lacking the fundamental political stability necessary to conduct effective military and pacification operations. It could not be done and it was not done."
- Robert S. McNamara
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"We will take our napalm and flame throwers out of the land that scarcely knows the use of matches...
We will leave you your small joys and smaller troubles."
- Eugene McCarthy in "Vietnam Message"
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never wrestle with a pig.
you both get dirty;
the pig likes it.

pan6467

No, as for the prereq's, the classes build off themselves.I did check on that before my rant. I honestly could have taken JUST addiction courses and gotten liscensed without having to take anything else.

As for a catalog, there are only 2 schools in the state that even offer this degree. NC State and Akron. The catalog at Akron touches on the subject but doesn't go into depth as it is part of their "Tech School Summit College". Which just changed names this semester and did not have a catalog of it's own.

I did look into it before I even went to school. The problem being, and I am sure this is probably the problem at AKRON (HOWEVER, they should train their advisors to know the new regs.)... Ohio just went to a liscensure program. It was based on a certificate where they had 3 different levels.

Level I was basic and just needed some classes and 6 months hands on experience, and you just basically did intake and could not make any assessment of anyone. Classes offered at colleges could reduce your hands on hours.

Level II was a completion of level I, more hands on hours, a bachelor's degree (preferably a Master's) was recommended but not required and would only reduce the needed hands on hours and you could practice as a counsellor but had to be supervised by a DR.

Level III required the completion of the first 2 levels and basically was an add on for a DR.

Now, the beginning of this year that all changed, to where now you need 270 hours of addiction studies. No other degree or classes are necessary. 270 hours tho are not class hours, like my Intro class represents 24 hours towards that 270.

All I am saying is a college (especially when it is only 1 of 2 that teach the subject) should know what the regs are. Especially if the regs and requirements have changed.

To me what it seems like is U of Akron did not listen to what I wanted or did not understand and told me to do something that will take more time and cost me more money. In the long run their plan will help me, as I will have a Master's, however, I could have been liscensed by next year and working on my cert. as a gambling counsellor.

What I believe is going on is that noone has trained the Advisors what the new processes are and therefore they are still directing people to get the degree. Which a degree is a great thing to have, BUT as it is their profession they should know what the requirements are. Because I could get a Doctorate but I would still have to accomplish the 270 hours of addiction studies that someone without any degree needs to.

I feel if I pay someone for a service (such as a college) they should know better than I do what needs to happen OR they should provide info. That is what they are paid for.

Akron is a good school but they just had a few million dollars worth of construction, their 2 year college is treated like a bald headed stepchild. The 2 year portion is not being satellited off to become Summit College instead of Univ. Of Akron Community and Tech school. The VP and several other higher ups last Spring were caught with thier hands in the pie when the state did an Audit and found they recieved kickbacks for the construction and computer equipment used. They are facing a severe decline in attendence. So Akron is having quite a few problems.

The only reason I chose them is because the other school teaching Addiction Services is 2 hours away.


Yes, I am an adult and YES I should have studied and checked on the new regs before I went to school (even though last year when I had gone to the Stark County Board of Addiction Services, they themselves weren't sure what the new credentialing was going to be like). I also chose to believe that those who are paid to know more than I do and who are paid to help students would know better what my options were and would steer me in the best possible manner FOR ME not what would make the school more money. I WAS WRONG. Yes, their way in 5 years I have an MSW but no Addictions degree and I'd have to spend more time getting it, would look better. HOWEVER, financially to me, the options should have at least been given to me to take the addictions courses get Liscensed, get a job THEN continue to get the Master's.

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I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

wraithhibn

One of the things that seems to go for all colleges is that advising departments are worthless. Talk to another advisor, ask around and see who's good. When I transfered schools withing UofL I had a friend recommend an advisor for me and I'm very glad he did. I saw many people get screwed by advising, it sucks. Talk to someone else other than your worthless advisor.

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If you won't dress like the Victoria Secret girls, don't expect us to act like soap opera guys.

World's King

I thought all college was a rip-off scam.

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heavy is the head that wears the crown

Rekna

^^^^ *shrug* if you go there long enough they start paying you to go! thats the true scam!

warrrreagl

As a college instructor and advisor, I agree with most of what's already been said. Take responsibility for your own registration. No advisor can force you to take classes you don't need without your compliance.

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Living is easy with eyes closed.

smooth

I agree with you that your counselor should have been more up to date. And I'm not too convinced with the notion that you, and only you, are responsible for reading a brochure and ensuring you are in the correct courses. I might have a lot to say on the subject, but the main point here I think is that the advisor's responsibility is to dispense with accurate information.

But here's some advice for you based on my wife's similar interests and goals: if you are considering ultimately gaining a master's degree in your line of work, you might benefit from asking around about a degree called a Master's of Counseling. The MSW has long been the standard fare for someone thinking of going into your line of work, but the MoC is the new horizon for all sorts of reasons. Check it out. Less saturated degree, higher pay, and more tailored to what you sound like you want to do.


well shit, came back to read a reply and found some typos!

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"The theory of a free press is that truth will emerge from free discussion, not that it will be presented perfectly and instantly in any one account." -- Walter Lippmann

"You measure democracy by the freedom it gives its dissidents, not the freedom it gives its assimilated conformists." -- Abbie Hoffman

The Phenomenon

In my experience college advisors are morons that are just interested in getting you out of their hair.

Get the uni's books -- they should have some which clearly outlines EVERY SINGLE course and degree they offer. All the rules are explained in there, EVERYTHING. They MUST have books like that availble to you. Get these and work it all out for yourself. I did - and its better and this way you get to see exactly what you will learn and why.

I have about 500 pages of documentation from my UNI that clearly lays out EVERY little detail of getting a Diploma, certificate or Bachelors degree from them. There is another book for post graduation studies for PhDs etc.

Cynthetiq

I didn't listen to a counselor in HS and I didn't listen to one in college. Of course I didn't graduate from college, that's a different story...

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I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not.

warrrreagl

I'm sure that all the TFPers in college are fine, perfectly upstanding and responsible college students. However, allow me to give you a summary of my typical advising sessions with college students who are probably not TFPers:

ME: Where is that dang-blasted kid? I had to cancel three piano lessons because this is the only time he could meet me, and now he's not here without even so much as a phone call.

ME: (two days later): (repeat of above sentence)

ME: (one week later): (repeat of above sentence)

ME: (two weeks later): Yes, please come in, and I'm sorry to hear that your grandmother was run over by a steamroller and died twice last week. Didn't she die a couple of times last semester, too? Oh well, what would you like to take this semester?
KID: I don't know.
ME: Well, what is your major?
KID: I don't know.
ME: Well, what courses would you like to take if you could take anything you wanted?
KID: I don't know. Just put me in anything; it doesn't matter.
ME: Well, yes it does matter, because if you're on financial aid, it won't pay for courses outside your major.
KID: I don't care, just put me in anything.
ME: Well, I'll put you in Computer Basics, since all degree programs require it.
KID: I don't care, whatever....

KID: (two months later during Drop and Add): I'd like to drop this Computer shit and take Art Appreciation. I hear Dr. Jacobs is easy as shit!

KID: (three months later in the Dean's office): ...and this jerk made me take Art Appreciation even though I specifically told him I wanted to take a Film Studies class as my fine arts elective. You need to fire that guy, because he doesn't care about the students, my financial aid is all screwed up, and he cancelled three different appointments with me while my grandmother was dying.....

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Living is easy with eyes closed.

Carno

Wait.... at your schools the advisors register for you?

At my school it is the student's responsibility to register for classes that they need. We make our schedule, get our advisor to check to make sure it's correct, then we sign up for it.

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http://how-to-spell-ridiculous.com/

ForgottenKnight

I don't know about all schools, but that's how mine is as well. BUT if you go in and speak with an advisor during the time that you're able to register, he can just register you then if you choose for him to do so. Plus he can sometimes place you into some classes that you otherwise might not be able to get into due to restrictions on classes and whatnot. So when the kid that thinks nothing matters goes to the advisor and tells the advisor to put him in anything, the advisor can do so at some universities. My question is how can someone that seems that so stupid that they can't chose what they're interested in, and think that it doesn't matter, be in college in the first place?

Back to the college ripoff scam... It seems to me that the advisor is at error, but you are at error as well for not checking it and making sure yourself either before or right after speaking with him. But then, I have known a few people that have been screwed over by an advisor. I'm sorry it happened to you, but at least you've still got your options open and still able to go into the field you want to, right?

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"People say I'm strange, does that make me a stranger?"

warrrreagl

It's called "free money." The Pell Grant specifically gives some unscrupulous people, who otherwise would have no business anywhere near a college, free reign to waste all the taxpayer money they can squeeze. The only time they show any interest in their curriculum is when the free money gets pulled. Of course, most people on Pell Grant are perfectly fine, hard-working students who are very responsible and mature, but I only seem to notice the goofs.

And speaking of a "college rip-off scam," here's another, much more insidious one:
1) Get accepted into the Pell Grant program (if you're carbon-based, you're in).
2) Sign up for a full load of classes in order to get the full Pell Grant semester allotment.
3) Attend the first week of classes in order to verify attendance.
4) Pick up Pell Grant check.
5) Disappear from campus completely. Do not withdraw from classes because you have to give back the money if you do that.
6) Spend the money on groceries, Christmas presents, etc.
7) Fail most classes (there are plenty of idiot profs out there who somehow manage to give a passing grade to students who never show up).
8) Repeat for two more semesters until the college puts you on academic suspension.
9) Move on to the next college and repeat.

Also, the US Supreme Court recently ruled that students can now bankrupt student loans (which were previously off-limits to bankruptcy, similar to IRS debts). Therefore, expect defaulted student loans to mushroom in the next five years as people in financial stress recognize the potential for this abuse.

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Living is easy with eyes closed.

Raleighbum

Join the Navy!
and the American dream is yours! (silicons included )
Would solve all money problems. Although you might end up spending the rest of your life in Iraq...

no, seriously go backdoor. Everything's possible.

Redjake

I know one thing: they wouldn't let me have a Pell grant if I got down on my knees.

3.67 cumulative GPA so far in college (junior now)

4.01 GPA (weighted) in HS, 3.66 unweighted


something about my parents having too much money. they don't bother to check to see if your parent's are actually paying for your college or not........

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Off the record, on the q.t., and very hush-hush.

warrrreagl

This is by far the most ridiculous and serious flaw in the whole financial aid system. In order for you to have some kind of health insurance, you are probably on your parents' insurance plan as a dependent. And since you are on their health insurance as a dependent, then they'd better make sure you're on their 1040 tax return as a dependent. And if you're on their 1040, then Pell Grant assumes they are paying for your college and will turn you down.

However, the obvious solution is financial suicide, since the only way to get their income off your application is to remove yourself from their tax return, and then suddenly you have no health insurance.

It's a mess, that's for sure. Scholarships were meant for people exactly like you, yet other people have yanked the system out from underneath you. Many colleges have discretionary funds (President's scholarship, College Foundation scholarship, etc.). Make yourself known to these people and beg. There's nothing wrong with it.

__________________
Living is easy with eyes closed.

pan6467

I guess I was just basing advising on my previous experience in college. I went to a small private college (Hiram College) and the academic advisors were actually profs. in your major's department.

My major was Pre-Law/History so my advisor showed me my pre-reqs and the electives I should take each quarter. He explained it that this was subject to my desires, but that a majority of students with my major found this the most successful way to go. Of course it didn't take out the variables like not going to class, gambling my way out.

Smooth: that is cool about your wife and would like to open an e-mail corresponace with you/her about the MoC and the shared goals we seem to have in common. Drop me an IM and let me know.

Warrrrreagllll: It's cool that you are an advisor. Hope you don't truly lose faith and hope because some of us do appreciate what you have to say (so long as you are up to date with what is needed).

Personally, I want an advisor to be there for me to tell me if I need a class I might have missed or if some new rule or reg. has come up in my field and I need to take a class that I don't have to but will help me in the long run.

Finally, I wish to thank everyone for their responses. I appreciate the fact that a majority of you read my full rant and gave your honest advice without ripping into me and treating me like some scumbag or lower than you creature, because you would handle it better.

Sometimes, a person may rant just to get out some negativity and the rant may not have anything to do with the problem or the rant is just a transferrence of a bigger problem in that person's life. It helps to rant and helps sometimes to have people just listen and offer a reply to the rant, because perhaps sometimes the answer to the bigger problem lies in an answer given to the less important rant.

Hope you can follow that, and understand, for those who can.... a big thank you.

__________________
I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

pan6467

As for financial: I have always felt if the government would police the awarded money and catch those who take advantage of the system (such as Warrrr's example) and made them repay the system, then there would be more money in the system and people who truly needed it would get it.

My worry is (and I did not know this, thanks Warrrr) that if enough student loans (esp. the Subsidized Staffords and Perkins) get expunged by Bankruptcy, there will be far less monies to put into the system as the Gov't will have to back up those loans, and Financial Institutes will be less likely to loan the needed monies out, unless you and your parents have spotless credit.

Hopefully, I'm Chicken Little here and don't understand the system at all in this aspect.

__________________
I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

DelayedReaction

No offense man, but you should've made sure you knew what the requirements were before you stepped into the advisor's room. These guys juggle hundreds of students, and even the major-specific ones may have trouble. I knew what my entire schedule would be before I ever step foot into my advisor's office, and he and I would just confirm things would work and move on from there. Their job (as I see it) is to advise, not hold your hand.

I would look at this in a different light. Your educational foundation is broader now, and that should your job performance.

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If ignorance is bliss, you must be having an orgasm.

Paq

I didn't read through these, but i can say with utmost certainty, when in doubt, follow whatever catalog you entered in or any newer catalog. My school had a program of courses you *had* to take, they spelled out what courses you needed, what options you needed, what time they 'recommended' you take them, what pre-reqs for any classes, etc. I never had to ask my advisor anything and worked only a very very short time on my schedule to get the classes i needed and wated at what times i needed. On the advising day/week, i would simply walk in, give the advisor my schedule, he'd glance and approve. I never took a class that i didnt' need or want and i graduated on time for my degree, about 4.5 yrs plus a couple summers (music degrees are a BITCH for 4 yr programs)

seriously, though, if there is ever a concern, just check the catalog for hte year you entered. Now, if they update the catalog while you are in hte program, you can switch to the new catalog most of the time, or you can just stick with your original plan. I know they changed the amount of 'cultural events' we had to attend during my senior year, so i didn't have to get 24 and only needed 18 (i graduated wtih 58 if that tells you anything about how much i liked plays, concerts, and dances...)

Most of the time, though, i opted to take a class even if i could have gained credit instead. I think it's just the fear that i would get in another class and be totally lost bc i didn't have a specific pre-req.

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Live.

Chris