warrrreagl

I need a weekly column on restaurant gripes.

Here's our latest outrage; we were eating lunch in a very nice Mexican restaurant that was packed, and I happened to notice that the people at the next table were feeding their child from a McDonald's Happy Meal bag. A quick glance to my left uncovered another family who had brought along a pizza for their daughter to eat, and behind me was another family with a Happy Meal for their spawn, too.

I can understand it if a parent brings jars of baby food or Zweiback toast for an infant, but these kids were way past being old enough to order off the menu.

Why??

I picture a nuclear family sitting in the car, and the mom and dad have both agreed on Mexican, but Miss Terrible Two demands only Italian for herself.

If they're not old enough to eat what's on the menu, then maybe they're not old enough to be ruining my lunch with screams, belches, and spewtum. And if the folks can't afford a baby sitter, then maybe they should be saving a little more money by eating at home.

I don't know what to say. I just don't get the "modern" American family and their bizarre restaurant/shopping/child-raising philosophies.

I still view eating out as something special, and I don't interpret the words "restaurant" and "playground" as synonyms. And I also view eating out as an "opportunity" to teach children how to behave correctly in social situations.

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Carno

I'm with you.. I don't think that children should be catered to. They'll eat what's in front of them, and if they don't want to, they'll go hungry.

That's how I was raised and I turned out relatively okay.

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Holo

Generally we're of the "eat what is there" camp, but if my kid wants Taco Bell and it's right next to Chik-Fil-A where we want to eat then it's no biggie to go thru a second drive thru. I think it's kinda tacky to take other 'rants food into an establishment tho.

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veruca

I can't even bring myself to eat out anymore...and when we do , I make sure it is somewhere that children won't be, or late enough that they will be in bed. I cannot stand people and their terribly behaved children...running, screaming, throwing things....and their parents just keep on eating...forcing the server to wrangle thier brats.

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KellyC

Damn...I never see that happens when I go out to eat. The rule in my house is "eat what's there or starve." Applied to eating out too.

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Tophat665

If I bring them food they want to eat, then they are generally pretty well behaved. If I don't, then will you have a problem with their spewtum, wailing, and dashing about.

Oh, they're 2 and 4, but the 4 year old looks 6 and is very articulate for her age.

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Boo

As a parent of 2 teenagers, remember what you do now will bite you in the ass when they are older. I never put up with whiney ass kids when they were little, now I don't as teenagers (well rarely). They should be pretty well behaved 24/7 even as toddlers. When they are not, some consistent disipline works wonders.

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Macheath

Hmm, As a waiter I'll generally overlook a single small bag of McDonalds - just so long as the table isn't blantantly littered with happy meals and their spending plenty of money on our food. At some silver sevice place, this kind of thing would, of course, be completely out of the question.

I'm just pleased the management gives us decent "child pacification equipment" - a good coloring book and crayons is amazing for reducing the severity of Hurricane Toddler AND gaining the gratitude of their parent.

I did think it was kind of amusing/cool to serve a 4 year old the other day who loudly declared that he would much prefer sushi for lunch.

Willy

Outrage?

What do you care? I don't see how this could possibly be a problem for you in any way. Mind your own business.

OFKU0

I can agree with that. I don't have kids and I don't want them. It isn't up to me to dictate who can or can't go to a restaurant and generally people with small kids do (I think) take into consideration other peoples rights to enjoy themselves as they do. Some don't give a rats ass though.

I think if people buy food from one place to eat somewhere else (another dining establishment) they should be charged a minimum. The restaurant business is very difficult business and to bring in food instead of ordering off the menu is not only ignorant, but also classless. Some social skills being taught there.

But far worse is having little kids running around and screaming while the parents are oblivious to whats going on, because MOMMY AND DADDY NEED THEIR QUIET TIME TOO. That's right, fuck everybody else, mommy couldn't hear The Young and The Restless because little Johnny or little Becky won't shut their fucking pieholes, now everyone has to suffer. If you ever see a guy (6 feet, blonde and blue eyes, incredibly handsome) in a restaurant yell "SHUT THE FUCK UP," come on over and say, "How you doing OFKU0?" and I'll buy you a drink. If the parents can't do their job, I'll do it for them.

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rat

As a server in a restaurant considered "fine dining" I was constantly appalled by the behavior of people's children.

I'm sorry, I don't starch the 45 dollar shirt I'm required to wear EVERY DAY, along with the slacks I have to have neatly pressed EVERY DAY, and the shoes I have to polish EVERY DAY, let alone the white apron I have to have starched so heavily it stands up on its own EVERY DAY, for your little shitfactory to come in and defile the restaurant I spent countless hours cleaning, dusting, vacuuming, and serving food in, LET ALONE having that same little crapdumpster throw his food on my uniform. If I have to put up with that (as a server, there's little choice but to grin and bear), there's no way in HELL that you're bringing outside food into my damned restaurant.

That's the mentality I used to have. I didn't care if it was a sippie cup of juice--we served apple juice, grape juice, orange juice, grapefruit juice, milk, pink lemonade, water, iced tea, or hell even bottled water in covered children's cups with straws. There's no excuse for a parent to take a child somewhere that the parent wants to eat and let the child dictate what food it was going to eat (outside of deciding between menu items themselves).

I had all sorts of ways to embarass the shit out of those who considered my restaurant a daycare that their child had the run of. "Oh my goodness! Did that plate come out of the kitchen with all those crayon marks all over it?! I apologize profusely, there's no excuse for that to have happened. I'll speak with the kitchen manager, and the dishwasher will be reprimanded." That one had the mother say "oh, my son colored it" shamelessly...which the boy then decided to try and deny (as he thought I'd given him an out) by saying, "No I didn't." That got the kid a slap across the back of the head. Apparently lying is bad enough for punishment, but there's nothing wrong with the vandalism of other people's property.

I know, I know, I'm not a parent. I'm 21 and have neither spouse nor child. But what I do have is experience teaching children one of the single most complex activities for anyone to learn--proper swimming. If I could handle a class if 3-9 year olds, 4-8 at a time, and still manage to keep them under control along with teaching each one of them, I'm sure someone can handle a single four year old and keep him in his seat through 45 minutes of dinner. I taught swimming hands-on for 13 months as I was 17-18 years old. I got recognized as having the best behaved classes in the YMCA I taught at. And it wasn't once--it was every single session for over a year. Because if I told a child he was going to sit still and wait his turn or he'd sit out, by God I sat him out. If I told him I wasn't going to put him underwater until he was ready, I didn't do it. It was a matter of consistency and the children knowing that I was going to do exactly what I said I was going to do--good or bad. I sat more children out in the first four weeks of my teaching career than some teachers sat out in a 16 week summer (8 sessions of 2-week classes). Yet I never once had a complaint lodged by a parent because they knew I didn't play favorites, and if I had to get on their child, they knew I had a reason. But those were my kids too. I didn't let any other instructor teach my kids, and I never once let another instructor call one of my kids on the carpet for anything. They knew that if it ever got to that point, I was unconscious at the bottom of the pool or hadn't shown up for work

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rat

I'm not trying to attack you, but screaming profanity in a restaurant is just as poor etiquette as bringing in outside food. A better (and less disruptive) manner of dealing with it, is to snag a passing server, have them locate a manager and send the manager over and explain calmly to the manager the issue at hand. 99 times out of 100 the manager will agree with you that something needs to be done and they'll politely approach the parents in question and attempt to resolve the situation.

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OFKU0

You're absolutely correct and the instances (2 or 3) that I have shown poor dining etiquette is when the servers, bartenders, managers and in one instance the owner didn't do jack. I'm a nice guy. I'm a very nice guy. But when such blatant ignorance and disrespect is shown for me and for others, I cannot be a turtle sitting back pondering if I should be a sheep instead. I have infinite amounts of patience, but not for people who seemingly go out of their way just because they think they are owed the right to something different from everyone else.

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Rubyee

I think that it is rude to bring in other food, but it all lies in parenting. This is more of a "don't spoil your children so much" issue than a "restaurant politeness" issue, though I still find it rude toward the restaurant.

I thought there were laws against this kind of behavior to keep the restaurant in the clear in case the food you brought in had been undercooked or subject to bad bacterias.

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rat

more often than not, it's company policy to the best of my knowledge. kind of like bringing your own alcohol into a bar.

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cheeterbo

we have four kids, oldest just turned 5. we also love to eat out (food).

we never have even thought of bringing more than a bottle. even though most restaurants gouge the shit out of parents IF they have childrens portions, we still slog through it.

most of the time, we get a couple leaving who lean in and say how well mannered our children are.

we will see a couple with one kids, who is out of control, and laugh about it because we know those parents let the kid run them. it all comes down to parenting.

and as for you rat, we usually tip 30-35% for the mess!

warrrreagl

If you have to ask, then you'll never know.


And I hate to be accused of lifting material from Fark, but I couldn't resist pasting this link over into our thread. It concerns a restaurant owner who's fed up with screaming kids and obnoxious teenagers, so he's set a minimum age limit for his customers. The best part is that his regular customers LOVE the idea, and so do I.
http://www.rochesterdandc.com/news/0...6BU_news.shtml

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Willy

Standard response for someone with no argument.

I can see why a restraunt owner wouldn't allow bringing in outside food. I don't like out of control children in restraunts any more than anyone else.

But, you are not a restraunt owner or employee. We're not talking about out of control children, we're talking about another customer feeding their kid outside food. Why is this a problem for you, a restraunt customer?

Personally, when I hear someone talking about how they hate kids, or have zero tolerance for them and don't want to be anywhere that there might be children, that speaks volumes about their personality, and not in a good way.

And for the record, I don't have any kids.

raeanna74

We have ONE time gotten some french fries from McDonalds for our daughter. This was back when Hard tacos and the spicy meat from Taco Bell weren't exactly food for a small toddler. McDonalds makes a little less spicy and more soft food than hard shell tacos, burritos with pre-flavored meat, etc. Most of the time we go by the policy, if you aren't hungry enough to eat what is offered then you aren't hungry and you can just have something to drink.

I don't get where the connection is made between bringing alternate food for a young child and a child screaming and misbehaving. We do not tolerate our daughter to disturb others. We don't even allow her to stand on the bench, or turn around and stare at people behind us. Even though those things are quiet behavior they aren't polite.

It's frustrating and disappointing when other parents make things more difficult for us by making people like many of you PREJUDICED against parents with children. Not ALL children are brats. Not ALL children will disturb your meals. I agree there is a time and place for small children. I would not take her to a high end restaurant in town because she's not old enough to sit a long time, wait for her food quietly, and not get bored stiff. I care that my daughter learn to behave in a restaurant though so how can I teach her but to take her to family restaurants in town.

I used to waitress. I served families of both kinds. There were considerate ones who would at least attempt to collect their child's garbage. Then there were the ones who left broken crayons all over underneath the table for me (I bussed at times too) to crawl on the floor and pick up. It didn't matter that there were kids there. It was the parents attitudes that made the difference. Some parents come in with a "You better keep my kid quiet, serve ALL my food immediately and perfectly cooked, and attend to my every whim or you don't get tipped anything." and there were parents who came in with a positive attitude such as "We're here to have a nice quiet family meal. Serve us as you would your other customers and we'll tip you accordingly." It wasn't KIDS that made the difference. It was the parents attitude. I saw some parents frequently and would recognize them. I saw some come in without their kids. They would leave their table in an almost similar mess to when their kids were with, they were loud, obnoxious, and demanding without their kids. Some people are just idiots and behave like trash with or without kids.

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analog

Yeah, and people wonder why i hate kids so much and will never have any of my own.

There's no need to ever apologize for not having children when citing bad behavior or complaining about poor parenting. That's part of what keeps bad parents the way they are- no one calls them on it, and they never learn. Just because you don't have kids doesn't mean you can't have valid opinions on everyday things.

To address the topic, that kills me when I see it. I will ask for the manager and tell them that there's no need to cater to those types of people. They need to know that the rest of us would greatly appreciate not seeing such a thing in the restaurant, so maybe they'll realize they're perfectly well within their right to ask that they not do that. Real customers are complaining.

Same goes for screaming children, children who are running around, etc. I tend to be more vocal in those cases, though.

unoaman

Congratulations "cheeterbo"...and do you know why your children are well behaved in a resturant? Because you taught them to be well behaved at home.

My kids are raised and gone now, but when children, I would put them up aginst any adult for their behavior in public. They might not know which fork to use, but they would quietly ask...and then proceed to use it as they had been taught at home.

OFKU0

I've said my bit but just to back up a point that I missed earlier. I believe the onus is on the restaurant to quarantine problems of any sort before they become problems,.. be it kids, drunks,..whatever,.. and NOT the role of the paying customer to search out staff when problems arise. That is their job, not mine.

Good business practice dictates that a proactive approach always wins the day, which is why people continue to patronize some establishments for decades. It isn't rocket science, it is the ability to correct a potential problem before it turns into one. Interestingly too, when such steps are taken across the board from the top on down, very very few complaints surface due to direct or indirect responsibility, since such is a misnomer.

raeanna74, you hit the nail on the head. Not all kids are out of control. But have you ever noticed with your kids how friendly other patrons are when your kids are well behaved? It, my dear, always reflects positively on you.

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warrrreagl

You're absolutely right; I don't have an argument.

I just have an opinion.

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DelayedReaction

A lot of it depends on how obtrusive they are. I don't care what people do so long as it doesn't impinge on me. If the child is well behaved, then I frankly don't care what it's doing or eating. The resonsibility lies first with the parent to ensure their children do not cause a disturbance, and second with the restaurant to reduce any disturbances to a minimum.

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rat

As a customer, I patronize an establishment for a combination of many reasons: the quality of the product, the quality of the staff, the enjoyment I get out of being there, and the quality of the other guests. I'm not an elitist, but I don't like having the ambience of a restaurant ruined by those around me. There's this little thing called etiquette I was taught long ago--and it focuses around respect for the people around you, which reflects on your humility and character. It is disturbing in this day and age to see people who absolutely disregard any sort of common courtesy, manners, or etiquette in public. It bothers me that they could have that little respect for the people around them. And I think about what they're teaching their children about respecting other people's property. Some of us actually value passing on positive character traits to children and find it bothersome that others don't.

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TM875

This is why the disappearance of smoking sections in restaurants is making me ever increasingly more sad. At least when the atmosphere was filled with an inch of smoke, most little screaming kids were no where in sight. Today, I still make it a point to *always* sit in smoking sections if available - less likely to be next to some brat.

And yes, almost all kids are brats. Even little cooing and sniffleing babies are annoying. 12-year-olds who try to act all cool with their cell phones and high-quality speaking skills are no better. Loud young drunks, while fun in a bar setting, are not something I want at a restaurant where I'm taking a date to.

I totally agreee with the age restriction thing (though 25 might be too high - maybe 23). Make a much happier place for quality dininig.

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raeanna74

I realize to each his own but I beg to differ. I am a former teacher and I run an in home day care. Children do things that are naughty, repulsive, and annoying at times but I can think of a lot of things that adults do that are just as disturbing. It's more of a disgrace when an adult does it because they should have more experience and know better how to behave in public. When they don't behave properly in public it's an outright insult to others. A baby who coos, burps, or drools does it simply because it is unable to do differently.

I have seen some children that are much better behaved than some adults.

If you spend any amount of time with a child you will see life in a different light and some petty things won't matter so much anymore. Have you looked at the world around you lately with the wonder of a child? Try it you might like it.

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Trisk

Everyone else has pretty much said everything I want to say. You don't bring your uncontrollable kids into a resturaunt. But I'm fine with kids who have their act together. I've been at resturuants sitting at the table right next to families with 1-2 young children (between 2-7) where neither kid cried, whined, destroyed anything or was bothersome to me or anyone else for a half hour. So no, I don't believe *every* kid is an annoying brat. However, I have seen the opposite and it is completely disrespectful.

I understand that it might be hard to find something to feed your kids at semi-exotic food places. However...it's not impossible. My parents used to take me to Mexican when I was a kid. I always got "Mexican Grilled Cheese" (that's what I called Quesadillas at the time). Pretty much everywhere you go, there are somewhat bland dishes...and if there aren't, don't bring your kid there. It's just tacky, disrespectful and bad mannered to bring food from someplace else (especially McDonalds) into a resturaunt. If you want to feed your kid McDonalds, you can do so before or after the meal. You wouldn't bring food from Mcdonalds to your friends house when you knew they were cooking for you...so why would you do the same with a resturaunt? ....Personally, if I was the manager of that resturaunt, i would approach the people doing so and kindly ask them to leave (well...maybe not on the food alone...but at the first sign that the kid was being noisy and disruptive).

sapiens

Very hostile. I've known many wonderful children. I don't understand such anger toward children. Most I know are more pleasant than most adults I have met. I was once a child. I imagine that you were a child at one time as well.

A side note: Occasionally, when I am in public with my daughter, the hair on the back of my neck stands up. I have a vague sense of danger. I usually put myself between my daughter and the strangers present. I start eyeing all of the strangers. Maybe it's this hostility toward children I'm sensing. It gears me up to fight.

Darn those kids with high quality speaking skills!

And much lower profits for many restaurants.

MSD

I'm one of the pickiest eaters there is, and I have many allergies, but I have never been somewhere that I could not find somehting on the menu. Even if there's nothing at all that they'll get from the menu, if you brought your kid to dinner, it's probably somewhere informal enough that they serve fries with the steak or other entrees. Give those to your kid instead of buying them at McGreasey's.

Willy

This kind of bigotry would not be tolerated on this board if you were referring to any other group of people.

Willy

So would you rather the parents decided to be a hardass and force their kids to eat the food there, even though they know it's going to cause a scene? or come in with a hamburger that they know will keep the kid quiet and happy?

The Phenomenon

Trying to buy good behaviour from your kids is a BAD BAD BAD idea.

If you do whatever they like to prevent them from throwing tantrum, they will start thinking thats how the world works. And it doesn't. If they throw a tantrum, open a can of whoop-ass on 'em :P

Kids DO NOT RUN THE HOUSEHOLD. They are on the bottom of the food chain - and they need to know that. Otherwise they grow up thinking the world owes them something. Which it really does not. Save them a big kick in the ass later in life, by not taking their shit today.

Cynthetiq

aah the joy of living in NYC... I see lots of pregnant women here, a few strollers here and there... but most of the the places that I frequent don't have kids.

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Cynthetiq

you obviously don't know any morons, assholes, idiots, or fucktards that are over 23-25... cuz I know plenty.

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hrdwareguy

Just to take the other side of the coin, when I was a lot younger I was diagnosed with a douadnal ulcer (it's in the intestinal tract). Part of the deal with me getting better was I could not eat any kind of spicy food at all.

One day my sister and I were out with my aunt and uncle. We went out to eat, went with pizza. I could not eat pizza because of the meger amounts of spices in the sause, a quick stop at Hardy's and we were on our way to the pizza place. They had no problems with me eating something else since it was a medical condition.

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splck

Nice to see another child hating thread.

While I wouldn't bring outside food to a restaurant for my kids and I rarely if ever have seen it done, I don't see it as such a big deal. I can't think of a menu that I've seen over the years that didn't have something for children. Maybe these parents should be choosing a different place to eat if they feel there is nothing on the menu for their kids.
I've been lucky in that my two girls are well behaved and aren't picky at all when it comes to food selection.

Ok, I'm done; carry on with the hate fest

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nice line eh?

denim

Experience, actually. Quite a lot of it, and by many different people. Complain about it all you like. We certainly do.

Here is something for you: http://stainedapron.com/brats.htm

ShaniFaye

I never in a million years ever considered taking food from one place into another resturant.....people actually do this? Once my daughter was to the food stage we usually only took her somewhere that had buffet style food, french fries or mashed potatoes kept her very happy. She's almost 11 now, and she has never been allowed to get up from the table and wander around, go the food bar without one of us etc. She will sit and watch these other kids doing things like that and see all the other people staring at them and actually thank me that people dont look at HER that way.

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Bill O'Rights

Excellent point. This is why we've pretty much resigned ourselves to eating at McDonalds (with the 20 month old in tow). If we want something nicer, then it's time for the babysitter.


There are, of course, exceptions to most rules. You, it seems, have touched upon a very valid one.

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