lurkette

I was at a memorial service yesterday for my friend John Walker who died of a heart attack at age 70. This guy was one of the sweetest, kindest, most loving people you would ever meet. He was a former Navy captain with this big barrel chest. Actually, he looked a lot like Santa Claus, and he gave the best bear hugs. He always made you feel loved and like the most special person in the room. I'll miss him terribly.

Anyhow, at his memorial yesterday, the family spoke about John and then they opened up the floor for friends to say stuff. This couple in their 50s-60s got up and talked at great length about their reminiscences (and I mean at GREAT length) and at the end said something along the lines of "we know John is in heaven and he would want to see you, so if you haven't accepted Christ as your savior, would you please bow your head and admit you are a sinner and accept him as your savior and lord, because John wants to see you in heaven and there's only one way to get to heaven, by accepting Christ."

Bullshit! John never said a WORD about religion - he didn't have to. He just lived it, and he never ever ever would have said something like this, and it was kind of offensive to have this injected into an otherwise loving and peaceful ceremony.

I wouldn't have thought much about it except that the exact same thing happened at my brother's memorial a year ago. People would stand up and talk about who Josh was and what they'll miss about him, and then one of his friend's mothers, who is a lay minister, got up and started talking about the path of righteousness and how there's only one way to get into heaven - by accepting Christ yadda yadda yadda. Which was so out of place - my brother was a consummate atheist, and he would have been making rude gestures at her if he was in the room, and all the people who really KNEW him were all looking at each other like "WTF is she saying?" If the only way to get to heaven is by "accepting Christ as your lord and savior" then Josh is skateboarding in hell, and I'll see him when I get there, thank you very much!

Why do Christians feel the need to proseletyze at such an inappropriate time? Is it just their way of dealing with a profound mystery (death)? But why do they feel like they have to browbeat everyone else into thinking the way they do? It's not at all who these two people (John and Josh) were, and not even something they really believed. What gives?

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ShaniFaye

I have to agree...I am a christian...but I have never appreciated being "preached to" at a funeral. A funeral, IMO, is a time to remember the departed, NOT to witness....grrrr it really pisses me off when people do this. Just because I may believe doesnt mean that all the people that attend my funeral do, as a LOT of my friends are atheist and I respect their right to believe, or rather not to believe. Sure god and heaven etc may be mentioned at my funeral, but there is no way I want the attendees preached to...but heck what do I know, Im the one that wants a BIG party with all my friends, I want everyone to get drunk and party like they do when Im around and I want to be cremated and smoked by the stoners of my group

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Lasereth

Oh man, I've had the same experience before. Except the minister at the guy's funeral I was at was Catholic. He was doing the smoke thing with the altar boys and all, then in the middle of the funeral began to preach. He literally said that anyone who hasn't converted to Catholicism would go to Hell. He wasn't just preaching Christianity...he was seriously saying that only Catholicism would grant you a right into Heaven, and that everyone should convert. He kept saying "there's so many non-believers in the home tonight, Catholicism is the best way of life," etc. My grandpa got incredibly pissed that the minister would preach to the visitors at his friend's funeral like that. It made me really mad.

I don't mind Christianity and I surely don't mind having a lot of faith in your religion, but I can't stand when people shove it down your throat, especially when they say that your own religion isn't right. Religion is simply believing and feeling something inside of you...it's not something that must be done the same way "or you go to Hell."

-Lasereth

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ARTelevision

I agree completely - hijacking is the right word.

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bernadette

tacky & inconsiderate are a couple more words that come to my mind.

it's really not any different than hawking your kid's girl scout cookies in the middle the funeral.
both are completely inappropriate.
a funeral is not the platform for a sales pitch of any nature.

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Bill O'Rights

Words cannot express my total and complete outrage over this.

Count on this; anyone attempting this kind of crap at my funeral can count on having his/her ass haunted 'till the end of days.

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merkerguitars

If they want to preach on heaven and hell they can stand on a soap box on a corner in town, but a funeral is such a wrong place. It's a time for mourning not a time for preaching.

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todd

I can't believe they had the nerve to even say that. Ignorant bastards.

Bamrak

My grandmother had her funeral several months ago. The family decided it was going to be a small, simple viewing, followed by a simple burial. My understanding was that there wasn't even going to be a speaker, just people paying their respects. Well, my Aunt decided to have a pastor/minister/insertflavorhere speak at the wake. Being from a Southern Babtist family, I knew what was coming. The 'sermon' started about paying respects to the dead and how they will be missed.

This led into heaven, which lead into hell, which led into a 30 minute hellfire and brimstone sermon featuring a screaming, podium rocking, jumping down the aisles minister and people howling amens and preach ons.

I'm not against religion at all, but I realllllly have some issues when I'm there to may my respects to a fallen member of my family, and I'm yelled at about how I am going to hell and given their agenda. I felt it was very rude and disrespectful and an insult to myself and my grandmother.

Strange Famous

I dont like anyone trying to force their beliefs on other people, especially when they do it to people when they are at their most vulnerable

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Harshaw

Dogging people about religion after a death is a pretty low thing to do. It's akin to trying to sell life insurance to funeral goers.

After my mom died, my family was invited to a neighbor's house for dinner. The neighbor was pretty high up in his church, but my family didn't think anything of it at the time. Around dessert, the neighbor started selling his religion. We weren't buying, we had heard the sales pitches before. He tried a different tactic “How do you know Cheryl isn't standing here over your shoulder telling you you should join our church?”
Needless to say we were shocked. I don't think I would want to belong to a church that uses the pain of losing someone as an advertizement for their religion.

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wonderwench

Yep tacky and inconsiderate - and completely self-absorbed.

Compassionate people respect the beliefs of the deceased and take their cues from the surviving relatives.

analog

Sounds more like Evangelicals than just run-of-the-mill-Christians. But some regular Christians are that way too...

I'm Catholic, but this pisses me off as well. People should not force religion against others, most particularly at a time of grieving. That's just disgusting.

If that ever happens with me, and I knew the person was specifically against the message, as was the case with your brother, I'll likely have to say something. That's just wrong.

SecretMethod70

Agreed. And, funnyu, I've been to about 6 or 7 Catholic/Christian funerals and none were like this.

Point? It's not the religion, it's the people.

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sailor

Like everyone else is saying--

Bullshit. Forcing religion on someone, *especially* at a place like a funeral, is NOT a good thing. I would be absolutely livid if someone did that at a funeral for one of my loved ones.

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phyzix525

It is the "perfect" time to get people to think about their own mortality. Some people just can't pass up such an oportunity. Its the same scare tactic you find, scare you with hell you must repent or its death. Just like half of the church plays I have seen. people dieing and then some go to hell the others heaven, just to pull at your emotional strings. I know this is not the right thread for this, but seriously can anyone explain to me why God would punish his own children to an eternal death? I have a child and there is nothing she can do to make me condemn her to death.

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Boo

This is another reason to have my funeral at a bar or out in the woods.

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Dilbert1234567

that would piss me off so much. im sorry to hear that.

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matteo101

I agree 100 percent. Ile be damned if the Bible is spoken at, at my funeral. I believe in God, dont get me wrong..but there is a difference between a belief in God and organized religion...

DelayedReaction

What irks me most about people who do those kind of things is the attitude they display towards other people. Although they may say differently, their manners speak of a self-centered view that looks down on those not of their faith.

And frankly that disgusts me.

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tecoyah

One word.......Ignorance.

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amonkie

I have requested a "memorial service" instead of a "funeral", just to make it clear that if there is going to be any type of formal gathering, it's to allow a group of people who know/knew me to share memories- hence "memorial" service. Anyone who has questions about their own mortality might be sparked by someone's passing, but a funeral is not the correct place to address those questions.

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KWSN

I am going to put it in writing that everyone who attends my funeral who is able to should pack a loaded pistol, and to fire at will if any asshole pulls that sort of shit.

It is just pathetic and sickening that ANYONE would start preaching in the middle of a fucking funeral... PLEASE. Similar to what Bernadette said, that is JUST like asking people to buy something. A funeral is not for a fucking salespitch.

Furthermore I will make sure my funeral is not held in a church. I've been in a church all of 4 times in my life, I'm not about to spend every year of my death underneath one.

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streak_56

Ignorance, pure and utter ignorance....
its the same way with my family...... I'm atheist and the rest of my family is prodestant, catholic and baptist (sounds like the beginning of a joke there) and I'm neither.... and the preach to me till the end of the day.... frankly it makes me not give a shit even more..... I'm more into buddism. So the moral is: Preach to me and I won't give a shit

lurkette

Incidentally, this WAS a memorial service, and not a funeral, and it was held at the American Legion, and not in a church. And my brother's memorial was held in a frickin skate park, for cryin' out loud. You'd think that'd send a message about the type of memorial it was, but apparently not.

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Nachimir

My condolences for your loss, and the added insult.

The exact same thing happened at my Great Aunt's funeral, and she'd never professed any belief in god, nor did she desire any religious content at her funeral; then only thing she willed was for a certain piece of clasical music to be played. Even thinking about it now, I feel like giving that lay preacher a good hard smack.

That's going in my will. "If anyone starts pulling shit like at my great aunt's funeral, kindly drag them to the edge of town and put their head on a stick."

World's King

Wow...

Some people don't have any respect.

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GakFace

Yeah the thumpers of any religion... not the religion itself (you don't have to be in "organized religion" to be a thumper either.

I myself think that if you're a good person, you'll go to heaven. I believe that even if Mother Teresa didn't believe in God that she'd still be in heaven. (I mean... how could you throw someone that good to hell because they didn't believe in you, but accept that guy that believes but did complete shit all his life?)... oh yeah back to the story.. uncle just passed on and quietly to just me (not outloud.. he knew not to) he told me that whoever said my uncle is in heaven right now because he was a good man was wrong and that he's in heaven right now because he accepted Jesus Christ into his life.. and thats the ONLY reason he's in heaven. I couldn't stand hearing that.. he wasn't rude about it nor did he do like what happened at the service Lurkette was at... but that message that there's only one way and thats it.. I can't stand that. And man was there a long awkward silence after that.

King: The thing is, is that they don't realize just how insensitive it is. They believe that now is the time to point out how they got to where they got to.. and to use them as an example.. but again they don't realize how this is completely the wrong time to point it out. And don't bother trying to point it out yourself... someone who can't see the error in their ways will only get just as pissed as you are as you're now saying their being bastards for doing nothing wrong... yeah its not easy.. to do, I've tried... fun times.

KWSN: Just make a sign land attatch it to your coffin, "If you're going to speak about how to get into heaven.. first enter the coffin with me and find out first hand."
Just have Clavus spruce that up a bit for me

(still a comedy hijink for KWSN)Or just have a sign "Wanna know what happens after you die?" Then have it point to another sign, "Find Out Here!" With an arrow pointing up to a noose.

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sexymama

People like that are what makes it difficult for me to say I'm a Christian. I just can't fathom wanting to be associated with that kind of ignorance.

(Yet Lebell and I believe very much the same and he calls himself Christian -- interesting. And I know that he would not be pleased with those kind of words at a funeral either.)

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ratbastid

These were Capital-C-Christians. Not Catholics, nor Protestants of any stripe. Christians. The ones who identify themselves as Christians are, in my experience, the ones to watch out for.

(Edit) -- sexymama, I'm more than willing to believe that it's the bad eggs giving Christians a bad name. I sincerely hope that's true.

You know, as the one running that event, I had a real moral dilemma at that moment (as, I'm sure, did our friend John's brother Mike who ran the service this weekend). Should I intevene here, knowing that it's not how Josh would have wanted it? Or should I grit my teeth and let her have her say, which Josh probably would have done? Am I to behave according to Josh's wishes, or his actions?

Ultimately I went with the latter. I confess, part of me just didn't want to look like the guy who shut up the God Woman.

I actually didn't have as much of a problem with the preaching woman as I did with the woman who, during "open mic time", led the whole group in a prayer. There was a strong undercurrent of fixing the service, which was inadequate and bad because there wasn't any praying in it. THAT, Josh would have made some noise about.

Rodney

Agree with analog -- it's the evangelical Christians that do this. The ones that believe that, as an integral part of their faith, it's their duty to bring people to God _their way._ They can't respect other people's beliefs, because by what they believe only _they_ have the truth, and therefore they're doing you a great favor by coming atcha at every opening.

In other words, their religion requires them to be rude and disrespectful of others' feelings, and to attempt to sell their own beliefs to others at times when others are at their most vulnerable. I've seen it once or twice in nondenominational "Christian" churches, but most of your "standard brands" (Lutheran, Methodist, Presbyterian, Episcopalian, some Baptist synods) would never be so crass.

Willy

I am a christian, and I have never seen this happen at a funeral, but I agree it is totally inappropriate.

Superbelt

Thanks for the heads up. I didn't know that kind of stuff went on. Course I haven't been to a funeral since I was 14. I'll make sure my closest family knows that if any fire and brimstone preaching goes on, that I expect them to cut it off and get things back on course.

Of course, my funeral course will be only a couple of minutes followed by strewing my ashes then off to the wifes for beer and snacks.

iamnormal

rockogre

That is so wrong.

I have often wondered about these people. Do they not realize that they often turn people away from the exact thing they want them to go toward? I'm glad if someone finds God, or Jesus, or (insert deity here), but that doesn't mean I want their new found faith shoved at me. Faith is a personal matter. Need help? Go seek it. I never lost my personal deity so I have no need to be pushed into someone elses idea.

And to stand up at a function for someone else and do this is just totally and completely wrong.

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Cynthetiq

not even worth the keypresses...

i just don't have time for people like him...

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mystmarimatt

That's such a cool, personal idea for a place to do something like this. Wow.

A few years ago, the father of a friend passed away and our choir sung at his memorial service. Nothing religious, just this choral piece he loved deeply, and the minister heading the memorial service gave a lovely speech about what a wonderful guy this man was...and then he started making this huge religous tirade and came thisclose to making an open altar call. My friend and I (not the girl whose father passed away) just looked at each other mortified, and as we were heading back to school, we just kinda looked at each other and asked "did he really just do that?"

So disrespectful.

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Madd

wrong in so many ways...

Its people like this that give religion a bad name.

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Charlatan

Some people will take any opportunity to spread "The Good News"...

When a person tried this at my father memorial, I asked them to leave. I appreciated their sentiment but told them I thought it was an insult to my family to try that nonsense at a time we were grieving... My sister-in-law didn't take kindly to my telling her relatives to leave.

Luckily my brother had my back.

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onetime2

As some have mentioned, it's not all Christians who do this and I will just about guarantee that there are similar religious proponents in other faiths who do the same. Some people have little respect for others and that trait transcends faith and spirituality.

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