Ultimate Bill Cosby Thread: Blacks can't speak English

[Cynthetiq]

Originally posted by water_boy1999
Good points made Rat. One of my good friends and soon to be neighbors is Black. He is 23, a former college ball player, and just a cool cat all around. However, he speaks like he still lives in Inglewood. What I mean by this is he speaks ebonics. "What up yo?" "Whass checkin dog?" I know what he means because he is my friend, but I have often though about the job situation. Being IN the staffing industry, I wonder how far he wants to go or what type of work he eventually wants to settle into. I also think about the employer and what their first impression of the guy is because is the way he talks. I think very highly of my friend, but I also know he is putting up barriers for himself because of the way he talks sometimes. It isn't every day that I run into a black CTO, CEO, CIO of a company and they greet me with a, "What up E-Dawg?"

I worked with Charles Smith from the Knicks (ugh that was a tough deal) anyways, he did talk like he was from the "hood" when appropriate. ONLY when appropriate. But when he was doing things to get work done, he spoke professionally.

He knew when to switch it on and off.

[Kewpie Dan]

i think that there is the assumption that people who speak with a dialectic slang do so all the time.

i am filipino and i grew up in scarborough, my "black-cent" can be thick, especially when i am talking to my friends that have also grown up in scarborough.

but i am also a graduate of teacher's college and will be teaching english and history. i have taught for 3 years and when i am in a classroom and when i write my essays my language is perfect.

on the other hand i have had to mark and edit hundreds of essays and i cannot tell you how many times students who can speak english well end up writing papers with atrocious grammar and spelling mistakes.

to make the assumption that someone who DOES NOT speak "proper" english CANNOT speak "proper" english is very misinformed and unfair to the individual.

[Cynthetiq]

Originally posted by Kewpie Dan
to make the assumption that someone who DOES NOT speak "proper" english CANNOT speak "proper" english is very misinformed and unfair to the individual.

it maybe misinformed and unfair, but FIRST impressions count heavily, and that's a fact of life.

I too am filipino and I was kicked up and down the street if I started with a filipino accent let along a mexican or black one. I'm going to stand by the fact that I have an advantage over my cousins who have said accents and act like "wiggers"

[Kewpie Dan]

Originally posted by Cynthetiq
it maybe misinformed and unfair, but FIRST impressions count heavily, and that's a fact of life.

yes, but what is the situation? are you an employer in an interview setting? if that is the case then yes, it would not be wise to speak in ANY type of slang.

but is this a social setting, a party, a co-worker on the factory floor? if it is, then why is there a need to speak formal english? and why would we think any less of someone if they do not speak formal english?

communication is important, but the quality of the idea is just as important. bullshit is still bullshit, even if it is said well.

we cannot totally write someone off because he/she cannot speak english as well as we do (or think we do). there are too many mitigating factors at play to make a blanket generalization.

[Cynthetiq]

Originally posted by Kewpie Dan
yes, but what is the situation? are you an employer in an interview setting? if that is the case then yes, it would not be wise to speak in ANY type of slang.

but is this a social setting, a party, a co-worker on the factory floor? if it is, then why is there a need to speak formal english? and why would we think any less of someone if they do not speak formal english?

communication is important, but the quality of the idea is just as important. bullshit is still bullshit, even if it is said well.

we cannot totally write someone off because he/she cannot speak english as well as we do (or think we do). there are too many mitigating factors at play to make a blanket generalization.

I'm of the opinion that meeting people is ALL the time. I get jobs from people that I meet at parties and other functions. Obviously if I'm sitting at the park, maybe I could see that, but quite honestly, if you are on the golf course? Oh right that's the whiteman's game right? Of course not.

And the mitigating factors are easily written off... it's called First Impression and I don't get a second chance at making a good one.

[water_boy1999]

Originally posted by Cynthetiq

And the mitigating factors are easily written off... it's called First Impression and I don't get a second chance at making a good one. [/B]

That's my line!!!!! Obviously, I am in sales and I live by that quote.

Originally posted by Kewpie Dan
to make the assumption that someone who DOES NOT speak "proper" english CANNOT speak "proper" english is very misinformed and unfair to the individual.

I hope you didn't derive that from my post because that is not what the intent was at all. If someone chooses NOT to speak proper English, that's their choice. If they do it for cultural reason, my suggestion is to get with the times. The minute we stop segregating people because of their color of skin, they dialect they choose to speak with, the build of their character, then and only then will we truly be "the melting pot". Until then, we will continue to create divides between people because they choose not to conform with a basic principle like speaking proper English.

[RoboBlaster]

Originally posted by water_boy1999
The minute we stop segregating people because of their color of skin, they dialect they choose to speak with, the build of their character, then and only then will we truly be "the melting pot". Until then, we will continue to create divides between people because they choose not to conform with a basic principle like speaking proper English.

Why do we need to be a melting pot? Why do we need to strip ourselves from our cultural diversity? Though we all live in the same country, we should hold on to our sense of culture and history. We cannot ignore our differences; rather, we should embrace them and then interact with and learn about others.

[ARTelevision]

Personally, I prefer - for myself, mind you - to totally and completely drop all references to my ethnic heritage and accept only the label "U.S. citizen." I'm quite adamant about this in my personal life.

This was my choice growing up. I never had any desire at all to identify with anything having to do with my heritage.

[BooRadley]

Bill Cosby has hit the nail on the head.

African Americans have been in this country for what, 250+ years now, as long as everyone else.

The European settlers all melted together to become a somewhat homogenous social group with the common language of English.

And after the great waves of Europeans, the Asians came along. They were mistreated, and the subject of many stereotypes, but they didn't publically denounce the current social structure. Instead, they've learned English and became fully functional and sucessful members of American society, even while retaining some of their own culture.

Now, we have a recent influx of Mexicans, and the majority of first generation American citizens are coming into age. They have went far and wide into the country, and have struggled with abject poverty and lack of english education in efforts to lead a better life. They are hard working, and many of them are illegals, but they know it and don't try to abuse the system. They just want a better life for their families, and are working for it.

If they blame white people for their current social situation, they are not public about it.

This brings me back to African Americans. Of course, it is an important point to note they were enslaved for over half the time they were in the country, but that has been 5 generations ago. There definitely isn't any living African American who has been enslaved.

Since then, they have been given oppurtunities to rise out of their social stagnation, and some have sucessfully integrated with the rest of our european/asian country. Yes, they aren't in positions of power. But some have risen to positions of power. Women have too, after being disadvantaged for a far longer time than African Americans.

But no other group tries to distance itself from American society like the African Americans. Organizations like the NAACP are blatantly anti-white, and serve as divisive. They think they are entitled to something in todays world because of something that happened a 100 years ago. They refuse to take personal responsibility for their own lives. They would rather blame it on white-owned Corporate America. They still honestly believe there is a great white conspiracy to keep them 'enslaved'. There are African Americans now who recieve grants for our government just to preach about how awful white america is.

How is the white conspiracy enslaving them? Someone on welfare isn't paying taxes or contributing anything valuable to the nation. If corporate america, or white america was enslaving them, the African American population would be contributing to society more than what it does now.

For every George Washington Carver, there are a thousand drug dealer/pimp wannabees and welfare mommas. This is sad, but it is a fact of life.

Corporate America doesn't hate black people, they hate lazy people. They hate unproductive members of a capitalist society.
Bill Cosby knows this. That is why he pushes for education and adaptation to our current society. Intelligent and responsible members of any cultural group will go far. There aren't as many limitations as what people think.

[filtherton]

While, to a certain extent, diversity is a good thing, our cultural differences are also the root of all of our problems. Every single conflict in the history of the world can be attrubuted to cultural differences. It all depends on how micro you want to get. I'm generally all for inclusiveness and respect for the culture of others. On the other hand, that inclusiveness and respect begin to waver where someone's culture has a net negative effect on themselves or the people around them. Being able to effectively communicate is vital for participation in any society. Not being able to communicate effectively is something that can only hold you back.
Being able to speak proper english is, ideally or not, a huge part of america's business and academic culture, two places where blacks have historically gotten the shaft.

Success in any situation is the result of a mixture of preparation and opportunity. Proper english is very often a vital part of being prepared. Which isn't to say that you can't live a completely satisfying and productive life lacking the ability to speak english correctly(i wonder how many grammar mistakes i have made so far in this post?).

[Seer666]

Well, they should look at hte bright side filtherton. You can say "You want fries with that?" with as much slang as you want, and no one minds. See, even the ones that don't speak proper english can beome a part of corperate america....

[RoboBlaster]

Originally posted by BooRadley
...the Asians came along. They were mistreated, and the subject of many stereotypes, but they didn't publically denounce the current social structure. Instead, they've learned English and became fully functional and sucessful members of American society, even while retaining some of their own culture.

Try telling that to the Asians in California who cannot vote because the ballots are only in English and they cannot read the names.

Originally posted by BooRadley
Now, we have a recent influx of Mexicans, and the majority of first generation American citizens are coming into age. They have went far and wide into the country, and have struggled with abject poverty and lack of english education in efforts to lead a better life. They are hard working, and many of them are illegals, but they know it and don't try to abuse the system. They just want a better life for their families, and are working for it.

Wouldn't you say that the fact that they are illegal is an abuse of the system? Also, working bottom of the rung jobs that no White will do is not an integration into all of society, it is scraping off the bottom.

Originally posted by BooRadley
This brings me back to African Americans... ...How is the white conspiracy enslaving them?

No, Black Americans are not being enslaved, but they are oppressed. It is not an intentional oppression by any single White American (at least not in most cases), but there are social structures that promote the oppression of Blacks. It is these structures that are dividing Black and White America, as well as other ethnic groups.

Originally posted by BooRadley
Corporate America doesn't hate black people, they hate lazy people. They hate unproductive members of a capitalist society.
Bill Cosby knows this. That is why he pushes for education and adaptation to our current society. Intelligent and responsible members of any cultural group will go far. There aren't as many limitations as what people think.

You are making my point here, at least until the last sentence. It takes education and adaptation to rise above the trap many minorities find themselves in. However, what do you do when there are no educational or adaptational options available? I would say that there are more limitations than what most people (on the top) think.

[Cynthetiq]

Originally posted by ARTelevision
Personally, I prefer - for myself, mind you - to totally and completely drop all references to my ethnic heritage and accept only the label "U.S. citizen." I'm quite adamant about this in my personal life.

This was my choice growing up. I never had any desire at all to identify with anything having to do with my heritage.

I agree with that, I've always thought of myself as American when asked "Where are you from?" "What's your nationality?" to "What's your heritage?"

[BooRadley]

Originally posted by RoboBlaster
Try telling that to the Asians in California who cannot vote because the ballots are only in English and they cannot read the names.

The majority of asians in the country are not fresh-off-the-boat immigrants. There are 3rd, 4th, 5th generations...

Also, working bottom of the rung jobs that no White will do is not an integration into all of society, it is scraping off the bottom.

There are jobs which need to be done. Farm labor is apparently scraping off the rung to you? Well, it is necessary to society....

You are making my point here, at least until the last sentence. It takes education and adaptation to rise above the trap many minorities find themselves in. However, what do you do when there are no educational or adaptational options available? I would say that there are more limitations than what most people (on the top) think.

You know, I come from rural eastern kentucky. We have one high school, which everyone goes to. There is no minority high school, and there is no private schools for 30 miles.

Let me repeat. We have one high school, and everyone goes to it.

Now, you take Louisville, our largest city , which has a population of 38% African Americans. In this school, there are many private schools, which african americans can go to for free or low cost, and magnet schools, in which any smart student can attend for free.

The university of Louisville will let any Jefferson County ( Louisville ) African American go to college for free provided they had a 21 on the ACT and a high school GPA of 3.1 or better. Any high school is included.

These are not insurmountable numbers. This is achievable by anyone who even remotely takes high school seriously, no matter what high school you go to . Unless you insist on writing tests in ebonics on paper used to cut cocaine.

Please, tell me how these poor, underprivledged ghetto students have impossible educational odds put in front of them. Tell me how no matter what, their magnet school/private school educations are worse than my public school education. Tell me that they cannot afford college.

Affirmative action has given them oppurtunities, whether you acknowledge it or not. It is their own fault for not taking them.

[BoomTruck]

Originally posted by RoboBlaster
Also, working bottom of the rung jobs that no White will do is not an integration into all of society, it is scraping off the bottom.

Define a job that "No white will do". I'm white, and I have yet to find a job that I absolutely would not do. I've done many things I would have preferred not to do, but I still didn't consider it "beneath my dignity".

[RoboBlaster]

The farm labor is bottom rung considering how much work it is compared to how little it pays. While the job itself may not be considered the lowest of the low, it is considering the pay. And yes, there are many programs to help Black Americans in Louisville and other places to get higher education. However, education begins long before high school. Children need a stimulating and personal environment early on to succeed intellectually later. There is a window of time early in human life where if you don't get that seed watered, it won't grow much later on no matter how much attention or help it gets. It just so happens that when this window opens is the same time that these lower class parents are out working and still don't have enough money or time to devote to their kids' learning. Achievement is limited to abiulity, and ability is limited to the conditions of childhood, conditions that are far from favorable.

[Seer666]

Originally posted by RoboBlaster
The farm labor is bottom rung considering how much work it is compared to how little it pays. While the job itself may not be considered the lowest of the low, it is considering the pay. And yes, there are many programs to help Black Americans in Louisville and other places to get higher education. However, education begins long before high school. Children need a stimulating and personal environment early on to succeed intellectually later. There is a window of time early in human life where if you don't get that seed watered, it won't grow much later on no matter how much attention or help it gets. It just so happens that when this window opens is the same time that these lower class parents are out working and still don't have enough money or time to devote to their kids' learning. Achievement is limited to abiulity, and ability is limited to the conditions of childhood, conditions that are far from favorable.

This is a valid point. It all starts at home. However.... I came from a poor family, not poverty, but far from well off. Both my parents worked, and did not have as much time as they would have liked to stay at home with my sister and me. However, they made sure that the time they were able to spend was top notch. They encouraged me to learn to read when I was haveing problems with it early on, and fostered it to the point that I was reading on a 9th grade level in 3rd grade. Oddly enough I still can't spell worth a shit. There are ways to deal with these issues, if the "parents" involved are will to BE parents, and do things, like, oh, lets say teach their kids how to speak english.

[Hard8s]

Every now and then people need a swift kick in the ass. It looks like Bill was in the right place, the right time, and had his size 12's on! Now someone White needs to tell this to the white guys, someone Hispanic needs to tell the hispanics, someone Asian needs to tell the asians, etc. Maybe, just maybe, if people hear it from one of their own, it will start to get through and not sound like a put down!

Bill is on the right track! Kudos to Mr. Cosby!

Originally posted by RoboBlaster
Try telling that to the Asians in California who cannot vote because the ballots are only in English and they cannot read the names.

The ballots in California are NOT only in english. I personally believe we spend way to much money to print things in different languages. No other country prints its ballots or government documents in other languages. If you are going to come to this country and participate in the way things are run, then you need to learn the language. I would not go to France, never learn to speak French, and then complain that I can not vote because I can't read the election materials, or understand what the people running stand for because I can not understand them. This is just common sense.

In a way we are encouraging people to NOT learn english by printing everything in every language. If they can get what they need by speaking thir own language, why learn english?

[warrrreagl]

Originally posted by ARTelevision
Personally, I prefer - for myself, mind you - to totally and completely drop all references to my ethnic heritage and accept only the label "U.S. citizen." I'm quite adamant about this in my personal life.

This was my choice growing up. I never had any desire at all to identify with anything having to do with my heritage.

Amen, Sir ART! As usual, the most succinctly worded perfect reply. As for my "heritage, " I don't have a clue and don't want one. I know the name of the small town in Alabama where my grandfather was born and that is as far back as I know or ever will know.

I am equally aware that there is a lot of Celtic blood flowing through the Deep South (which explains a lot of "typical" Southern behavior), and I'm probably loaded with it. So what?

I, too, am a U.S. citizen. That is enough, and that is plenty.

[RoboBlaster]

First of all Seer, it's awesome that you were able to rise above the system. However, you are one case on many. I am not saying it is impossible for upward mobility to occur, it's just extremely difficult, and we all need to be aware of how these difficlties work. As for the ballots, it's one thing to change everything into other languages, but it is another ball game when we are talking about voting. Voting is a right for each and every citizen (barring age and felony restrictions). Whether or not they can speak our language, their voice deserves to be heard. All I am saying is that we need to address the problem. And yes, we are American (those of us who are US citizens). However, people who are oppressed stick together with their own kind to survive. This is why they identify as XXXX-American. It's not that they really wish to distance themselves from others, it's because they are already distanced. The White American view of the country is wholly different than that of others.

[Seer666]

Well there RoboBlaster, why would we even bother putting differnt langueas on the voting ballets? Look at the topic here for a minute. The problem that needs to be addressed is not making things easier for people who can't or won't learn the local lingo. This is America, where we read, write, and speak english. Our consitution is in english, our leagle documents are in.....english, so, learn to speak english, or do not complanin that "your voice is not being heard". This is AMERICA, not Mexico, not France, not Germany or Spain. If I was going to move to any of those places, I would learn enough to be able to speak to people, why is it so wrong to expect the same from people comeing here? And I fell no sypathy for so call "opressed" people these days. Look at all of the celibration months we have. Blakc history, womans history, asian pacificer history. Why is it ok to be proud of your "heritage" unless you are a white male? Try and start a "United Caucasion College Fund" and see how long you make it before you are declaired a racist. All of these so people you are saying oppressed have more means at their disposal to "rise above" the situations they are in then I did, so if they don't, I blame no one but them.

[RoboBlaster]

Sure, most of us here speak English but you are right, this is "AMERICA." We are supposed to accept all the tired and waery and all that jazz. We are a collection of cultures, not one homogenous group. We have Black history month, so when is White History month? Every other month of the year. There doesn't need to be a United Caucasion College Fund because Whites already have the leg up.

[Rdr4evr]

Originally posted by ARTelevision
Personally, I prefer - for myself, mind you - to totally and completely drop all references to my ethnic heritage and accept only the label "U.S. citizen." I'm quite adamant about this in my personal life.

This was my choice growing up. I never had any desire at all to identify with anything having to do with my heritage.

Why U.S. citizen? What if they are not citizens? How bout we just go with the label "human".

[Rdr4evr]

Originally posted by Hard8s
Every now and then people need a swift kick in the ass. It looks like Bill was in the right place, the right time, and had his size 12's on! Now someone White needs to tell this to the white guys, someone Hispanic needs to tell the hispanics, someone Asian needs to tell the asians, etc. Maybe, just maybe, if people hear it from one of their own, it will start to get through and not sound like a put down!

Bill is on the right track! Kudos to Mr. Cosby!



The ballots in California are NOT only in english. I personally believe we spend way to much money to print things in different languages. No other country prints its ballots or government documents in other languages. If you are going to come to this country and participate in the way things are run, then you need to learn the language. I would not go to France, never learn to speak French, and then complain that I can not vote because I can't read the election materials, or understand what the people running stand for because I can not understand them. This is just common sense.

In a way we are encouraging people to NOT learn english by printing everything in every language. If they can get what they need by speaking thir own language, why learn english?

You would hate Los Angeles. English is a second language here, Spanish is first. It drives me insane when people cant speak English, especially if they have been residents of the US for a long time. I cant even go to McDonalds and order something without repeating myself five times because they dont understand me. Im sick of calling 800 numbers and hearing "For English press 1", shouldnt it be "For spanish press 1"? For that matter there should be no option, it should say "learn to speak English, or hang up now". Sorry for the rant, it just annoys me sometimes.

[Seer666]

Originally posted by RoboBlaster
Sure, most of us here speak English but you are right, this is "AMERICA." We are supposed to accept all the tired and waery and all that jazz. We are a collection of cultures, not one homogenous group. We have Black history month, so when is White History month? Every other month of the year. There doesn't need to be a United Caucasion College Fund because Whites already have the leg up.

Rich whites a leg up. The rest of us have to work for a living. And yes, we accept the "tired and waery and all that jazz", but there is also an understanding that they are comeing HERE to live the life that WE offer. As such, they should at least be able to speak and read the basics. They are the ones looking for a change, and in order to make the most of that chance, they should have to learn the basic skills needed to get along in this society. Other wise, all they are doing is being a drain on the system and slowly breaking it down.

[Zeld2.0]

Uh I don't know about you but Los Angeles is still English first... people speak Spanish or whatever other language, fine, but thats largely because there is a gigantic population of Spanish speakers so that is expected

As to the old stereotype of Asians... I'd caution you on saying they're all successful groups.. they're the few not the many.

And to be honest I doubt most immigrants are 3rd to 5th generations. Many many are new.

And do realize another thing - those who are given the CHANCE to come to America are usually the upper middle to upper class citizens of their countries. Most people can't move here. Hence those who come here already have some standing in terms of money and education. My mom's side of the family came here all with college educations already. They actually came here for graduate school. They were already rich in their former country, here they're fine in the upper middle class.

Don't try to confuse rich from making it here versus those who were rich before but have come here and have established it (though its nothing to take away from that achievement alone, which is admirable and tough)

As to the original topic... I suppose one can say those things. But at the same time, there are a ton of people that speak in slang and other ways all the time. I suppose its who you talk to and how you communicate that matters. I have little problem talking to people with accents and stuff if its an informal meeting with people I know. It really only seems weird when its a more improtant occasion.

[Tophat665]

26. It is essential that I learn to speak and write standard English. This is not "acting white," but acting smart.
27. A strong vocabulary is the key to communication, and I will read books on vocabulary enrichment.

Point 26 is perfect. The problem is not "black English", it's non-standard English. Though I personally feel that the second person plural of southern US English is an enhancement of the language, I would never use "y'all" in a formal business application - a resume or a report. (I'm a transplanted yankee.) I was thinking about this yesterday. There's a reason ebonics and "hillbilly southern" dialect speakers tend to be poor; those who learn how to speak standard English do not stay poor, or, at the least, find many more opportunities. It's not about race; it's about class.

Point 37 is too long. "... I will read books," is sufficient. Vocabulary books may be among them, but building a utilitarian, educated vocabulary comes from reading avidly and broadly, not memorizing lists of words. More to the point, if one commits to memory a list of words even with context aids, unless one sees them used naturally a number of times, one will soud the fool when using them. I have walked out of a meeting where a woman who was desparately trying to sound intelligent kept saying "sufficient enough". that';s the sign of someone who learned "sufficient" from a vocabulary book. It sounds impressive by itself, and means "enough", and by itself suffices.

[ARTelevision]

Rdr4evr, as for your questions:

"Why U.S. citizen? What if they are not citizens? How bout we just go with the label "human"."

I feel a great debt of gratitude for the efforts and sacrifices made by generations of our forefather here. As for my native land - I am a US citizen.

I acknowledge myself as simply human - and more than that, simply another animal - more often than most but I do not see it as contradictory to one's affiliation with a native land or homeland. What I do object to is the notion of ethnic heritage. That is a tribalism that IMO is best left in the past. It is nothing more than a divisive and contentious way to define oneself. Tribalism never got anyone very far.

[bbrown4]

Bill Cosby has earned the right to say whatever he wants, wherever he wants, to whomever he wants.

To me, there are two types of people in this world. There are (1) people who will tell you want you want to hear and (2) the ones that tell you the simple truth.

Anyone elected or appointed to an office, 99% of the time, falls under category (1). Anyone who has worked hard will, also 99% of the time, fall under category (2).

Place Kwesi Mfume where you will but Bill, in my book, has always spoken the simple truth. Just for that alone, he gets my respect as a Man.

[Zoom]

I'm African-American myself, and I wholeheartedly agree with his staements

[blazin954]

bill cosby is now my hero for saying publicly what ive been saying for years... more power to that man, there is something seriously wrong with this country and the whole ghetto lifestyle these people think they have to have to make it by in life.. the education is here in america and yet noone wants to use it.. the first big mistake was putting ebonics in universities and allowing rap music to go as far as it did... where were the sensors on that one.. they were sure there when marilyn manson first came out but yet rap teaches younger black kids and some white kids that you have to be a hardcore thug to get what you want and to survive in this country, like its that bad.... and i tell you one thing about lower income blacks that ive seen is that those people know how to cheat the system and government... not all of them but a good percentage.. im not directing this all toward blacks there are whites and other races that do this also but it just seems like everywhere i go i get one black kid or adult tryin to get something for free.. like we (whites) and the rest of the races owe them something... always tryin to get free money and something for nothing... what they need to do is learn how to speak real english and dress normal and act normal and get an education then maybe society will start respecting them more and not laughing at them behind their backs... that ghetto thug mentality will only get you killed or put in jail then that just makes more stereotypes agaiinst blacks... why not clean up, get jobs, get an education, make soemthing of yourself.. move into a nice neighborhood, and act like normal human fr*ckin beings and conform to societies expectations and quit thinking that people owe you something cuz of something that happened 100 years ago that noone now had part of... let it go and be the best human beings you can be dont settle for less...

so more power to bill cosby for actually speaking the truth i know the truth hurts but it has to be said and he hit it right on target ... hes got my vote and support to try and make this world we live in just that little bit better

[p0thead]

Originally posted by Boo
Or any other excuse. We all make choices. If you choose to be stupid, then you will succeed.

that is the best quote ever

[SecretMethod70]

Some of you may remember <a href="http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/showthread.php?s=&threadid=56220&highlight=Bill+Cosby">this thread</a>. Well, Mr. Cosby has spoken out again and elaborated a bit on his comments. Here's the story:

Bill Cosby has more harsh words for black community

Thursday, July 1, 2004 Posted: 8:25 PM EDT (0025 GMT)

CHICAGO, Illinois (AP) -- Bill Cosby went off on another tirade against the black community Thursday, telling a room full of activists that black children are running around not knowing how to read or write and "going nowhere."

He also had harsh words for struggling black men, telling them: "Stop beating up your women because you can't find a job."

Cosby made headlines in May when he upbraided some poor blacks for their grammar and accused them of squandering opportunities the civil rights movement gave them.

He shot back Thursday, saying his detractors were trying in vain to hide the black community's "dirty laundry."

"Let me tell you something, your dirty laundry gets out of school at 2:30 every day, it's cursing and calling each other n------ as they're walking up and down the street," Cosby said during an appearance at the Rainbow/PUSH Coalition & Citizenship Education Fund's annual conference.

"They think they're hip," the entertainer said. "They can't read; they can't write. They're laughing and giggling, and they're going nowhere."

In his remarks in May at a commemoration of the anniversary of the Brown v. Board of Education desegregation decision, Cosby denounced some blacks' grammar and said those who commit crimes and wind up behind bars "are not political prisoners."

"I can't even talk the way these people talk, 'Why you ain't,' 'Where you is' ... and I blamed the kid until I heard the mother talk," Cosby said then. "And then I heard the father talk ... Everybody knows it's important to speak English except these knuckleheads. You can't be a doctor with that kind of crap coming out of your mouth."

Cosby elaborated Thursday on his previous comments in a talk interrupted several times by applause. He castigated some blacks, saying that they cannot simply blame whites for problems such as teen pregnancy and high school dropout rates.

"For me there is a time ... when we have to turn the mirror around," he said. "Because for me it is almost analgesic to talk about what the white man is doing against us. And it keeps a person frozen in their seat, it keeps you frozen in your hole you're sitting in."

Cosby lamented that the racial slurs once used by those who lynched blacks are now a favorite expression of black children. And he blamed parents.

"When you put on a record and that record is yelling 'n----- this and n----- that' and you've got your little 6-year-old, 7-year-old sitting in the back seat of the car, those children hear that," he said.

He also condemned black men who missed out on opportunities and are now angry about their lives.

"You've got to stop beating up your women because you can't find a job, because you didn't want to get an education and now you're (earning) minimum wage," Cosby said. "You should have thought more of yourself when you were in high school, when you had an opportunity."

Cosby appeared Thursday with the Rev. Jesse Jackson, founder and president of the education fund, who defended the entertainer's statements.

"Bill is saying let's fight the right fight, let's level the playing field," Jackson said. "Drunk people can't do that. Illiterate people can't do that."

Cosby also said many young people are failing to honor the sacrifices made by those who struggled and died during the civil rights movement.

"Dogs, water hoses that tear the bark off trees, Emmett Till," he said, naming the black youth who was tortured and murdered in Mississippi in 1955, allegedly for whistling at a white woman. "And you're going to tell me you're going to drop out of school? You're going to tell me you're going to steal from a store?"

Cosby also said he wasn't concerned that some whites took his comments and turned them "against our people."

"Let them talk," he said.

Again, I agree with him. His comments remind me a bit of some of the message in the Spike Lee movie, Do the Right Thing.

It's not to say there aren't people in the world that were simply dealt a crappy hand in life, but the fact is an unfortunate number of them today - blacks, whites, whatever - are too content in blaming their troubles on someone else.

[Rekna]

He makes a lot of sense. We need to correct our problems starting with ourselfs and more importantly our childern. Teach them the values and the knowhow to become who they want to be.

[Journeyman]

A lot of that can be applied to any number of communities living in poverty with substandard housing and insufficient education. There *is* a lot to the notion that being born into an environment will determine who you are, but that does not excuse dropping out, drinking up and beating down your wife.

You've got a number of social programs and institutions to help poverty-stricken minorities who have ambition, and I think Mr. Cosby is just trying to remind people that they've actually got to have that ambition to work things out.

[warrrreagl]

Interesting that Jesse Jackson seems to be suddenly agreeing with Dr. Cosby.

As the old 60's saying goes, "You don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows."

[Cynthetiq]

brave and courageous man...

hopefully someone will hear his message besides rational people who don't need to hear it...

[ARTelevision]

Yes. I'm interested in expanding his critique to include all aspects of popular culture. Very much of what he is saying applies to the way in which popular culture, especially popular music and film, influences young people in wholly destructive ways. Everyone needs to think about his statements in a color-blind way, as well - because it applies to all of us and this bad news of a culture we inhabit.

[cosmoknight]

For a while I think the black community was seeking a unified voice. Jackson and Sharpton I believe are to partisan to be that voice but do you think the Bill Cosby could be it? Unlikely IMO but he is very educated and not beholden to a political campaigning like Sharpton and Jackson so I can't rule it out. The outrage I saw from his first speech seems to have been replaced by acceptance of his message which is a positive sign.

[sexymama]

It takes a brave person to speak the bold truth. I have always admired Bill Cosby -- I do even more so now!