ARTelevision

Christians force Wal-mart to ban British 'lad mags'
By David Usborne in New York
07 May 2003


Three British "lad" magazines have been banned by Wal-mart, America's biggest discount superstore chain, because of their racy content.

Pressured by Christian groups, Wal-mart, which sold goods worth $244bn (£151bn) last year, confirmed that it is suspending sales of Maxim and Stuff, both owned by Dennis Publishing, and FHM, which is published by Emap. The three titles have been at the forefront of the success of so-called "lad" magazines.

The decision, which casts Wal-mart as a national arbiter of moral tastes in America, has not been welcomed by the industry. The Magazine Publishers of America, an industry trade group, said it believes "that, in this free society, consumers should have the freedom to decide for themselves what they want to purchase."

Dennis Publishing denounced the move yesterday. "It is a shame that thousands of people will not be able to make up their own minds what magazine they can read for themselves.

"We hope that Wal-mart and Dennis Publishing can resolve this issue very shortly, so they don't have to bend to the will of a few as opposed to the majority."

In rural areas of America, Wal-mart is often the only the source of products, ranging from groceries to video games. It sells guns and a number of weapons-related magazines, plus more than 12,000 books and magazines on Christian topics.

A Wal-mart spokeswoman said the chain was responding to consumer feelings. "I know we've heard on at least one of those magazines, they weren't pleased with the offering," she said. "We just try to make good decisions that are going to appeal to the majority of our customers."

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As you know, I'm a freedom of expression guy.
However, Wal-mart can make any sort of decision on this they want.
Does it concern me?
Nope.

Does it concern you?

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Slims

It doesn't bother me because I won't shop at walmart unless I can't get something anywhere else.

I think they are fighting a losing battle.

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"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." - Winston Churchill

"All men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act out their dream with open eyes, to make it possible." Seven Pillars of Wisdom, T.E. Lawrence

rs8001

Did they give in to the demands of a bunch of idiots? Maybe. In the end Wal Mart can do what the hell ever it wants.

sixate

No, but it annoys me when a group of christians can get a store to ban a mag, but ignore when a priest fucks a boy.

krwlz

i dont really care what wal mart does, in the end magazines can be bought just about everywhere

billege

No I am not concerned.

Wal mart is a free business, within our laws governing their actions they can do as they wish.
Selling or not selling certain products certainly is within their rights.

I already buy from wal mart only what I can't get cheaper anywhere else; I am still about my best interests. I dislike their policy of deciding what is clean enough for me to buy. The music they sell has long been "sterilized for my protection," so to speak.

Eventually the market will decide if they make the right choices. If bible thumpers end up being their main customer, it will be their choice. I will then be forced to avoid the store completely, as I can deal with trailer folk, but bible thumping trailer folk is an entirely different story.

This story just reaffirms my choice to shop elsewhere for my cd's and magazines. It also reminds me I don't like bible thumpers.

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I can sum up the clash of religion in one sentence:
"My Invisible Friend is better than your Invisible Friend."

termnl

precicely

Not that I care about the mag....its just the skewed ethics that surrounds it.

Empty_One

diet pills that contain ephidrine(sp)...ok
mags that have pics of wome in bikini's ...bad

Weapons and magazines for hunting...ok
mags that have cool new gadgets ... bad

millions of dollars in mag sales ...ok
once a religious group complains .. bad

Makes sense to me.

rock_bottom

The larger issue is what some people call "One Nation under Walmart".
This is a sign of the consequence of letting one store become so huge. While companies/individuals may still be free to produce what they choose, if Walmart can choose to not carry their product on moral grounds, right now it hurts sales, tomorrow it could mean no sales. Today we see items from all forms of entertainment - from video games to music - being toned down or issued in special edits, because of Walmart. As Walmart gets bigger and bigger, it will just have more and more say in what can and can't be put on the market - without anyone every actually being denied a single freedom.
Yes, Walmart is free to do this if they want to. But I'm also free to not shop at Walmart, so that's what I've been doing for years. I don't want a world where everything has to be approved by some group, be they conservative christians or atheists like me. Rigid enforcement of any homogeny is NOT a good thing in the long run.

ARTelevision

rock_bottom,
interesting view -
- the homogeneity of what's available for consumption amounts to a de facto form of censorship.
It's a pernicious side-effect of monopolistic enterprise.

What to do?

I'm not fond of governmental regulation either...

That leaves the marketplace and consumer choice - which it seems, gets us back to the same place.

It's a conundrum...

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create evolution

phredgreen

the issue boils down to a more personal level when you start thinking about the people who live in more rural areas, areas where you don't have your choice of target, wal mart, k mart, best buy, five grocery store chains and three malls to do your shopping. in some areas, the closest thing these people have to civilization is a walmart. scary, huh? when walmart decides to ban an item or sell a modified version of these items, most of us are just fine with it cuz we have options, but for alot of these folks whose only connection to the modern world is sam walton's baby, we start seeing a problem of exclusion by corporate policy... so start thinking outside your box and start thinking in theirs... what does a down-home countyboy do when he wants to listen to nwa and can only find music as hard as justin timberlake?

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My country is the world, and my religion is to do good.
- Thomas Paine

Macheath

Eventually the market decides if this is acceptable - unless the anti-trust laws are pissweak. Then you're screwed.

Personally though, I find those magazines sooooo repetitive.

Double D

I don't agree that *in some places* the only store selling Maxim & the like is a Wal-Mart. There's almost always a smaller convenience-type store where one can purchase the mags in question, as well as other sometimes socially unacceptable fare, such as rolling papers.

Consumers usually find a way to procure what they desire, esp. if you're talking a non-essential, like the mags in question.

Spanky Johnson

Yet they still carry Cosmo. My wife has brought home Cosmo occasionally. I think it's just as racy as Maxim or Stuff. Hypocrisy.

guthmund

It doesn't matter either way, in my opinion.

If Wal-Mart chooses not to sell 'hardcore rap' then all the hardcore rap fans can purchase from a third party. Columbia House still delivers to your mailbox and I get those shitty little membership things all the time, so I assume all the hardcore bangers get them as well.

If Wal-Mart chooses not to sell Maxim, Stuff, FHM and the like, so what? Publishers Clearing House offers subscriptions to these magazines and again, I get those friggin' things all the time. Plus you might win 1,000,000 dollars!!!!!!

It's sad that Wal-Mart wants to assume the right to push blanket moralism through it's chain of stores on the masses, but in the end Wal-Mart not selling me 'unedited records' and 'Men's' Magazines isn't the end of the world and it sure won't stop me from getting them if I so desire.

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No signature. None. Seriously.

clavus

I wish I shopped at Wal Mart, just so I could boycott it.

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Ass, gas or grass. Nobody rides for free.

eltardo

I stopped shopping at Wally World a long time ago. Them not selling FHM/Maxim/Stuff is nothing compared to some of the other things they do. They're the debil!

Dragonlich

tssk... American puritanism again?

In the Netherlands, on the other hand, one can buy such "porn" mags as Playboy and Penthouse in the regular grocery store. I could buy more hardcore stuff like Seventeen and their kin at the local tobacco store (ooooh, smoking is bad!) in my local mall, next to my local kindergarten and junior high... I can go to Amsterdam's red light district and look at semi-naked prostitutes. I can turn on the telly and look at a how-to-fuck program aimed at teens, complete with blow-up dolls, porn stars having sex, and that sort of thing.

In short, your Christian coalition guys would have a field day here.

Oh, and this decision sucks arse. Can't you guys form an Atheist coalition to ban those religious mags Wal-mart sells?

ARTelevision

Sadly, Dragonlich, the political influence of the religious right here is astoundingly powerful...

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alpha phi

Well, after all america is still supposed to be a free country!
Wal-mart isn't under pressure from Christians, wal-mart is christian!
The founder Sam Wal-? (what ever the rest of his name is) gave away 10% of the companys profit as tithe.
He also credits god as Wal-mart's success..(rather than heavy handed tactics)
This is a good thing for the small town stores...
Just a little more buisness for mom N pop!

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Loki

i don't think Dennis publishing will mind... all they have to do is allow wal-mart to ban it, and produce two or three corker issues.

you'd be amazed that the pull "controversial" stuff has =)

and no, it doesnt concern me in the slightest.

suviko

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sbscout

no Maxim, but my wife can bring home a Cosmo that gives her 75 tips for a better blowjob...

Thanks Walmart!

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Always question authority... it'll keep the bastards on their toes!

World's King

"Welcome to Wal-Mart. We wont let you look at tits but you can shoot someone if you want."

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heavy is the head that wears the crown

Spungfoo

Wal-Mart is a privately owned business therefore they can do whatever they wish, but the issue here is they specifically place their stores in the midst of rural areas with no central shopping center and aggressively lower prices because they can afford to do it, thus making the local stores suffer because they can't compete. I myself have seen two instances of this. Now, everyone can make the choice to not shop at walmart, but they're not going to if they have to drive an hour or so to find an alternative, thus allowing walmart (and whoever's influencing them) to continue to dominate the market.

druptight

They can do what they want, and we can shop where we want. One of us will end up winning, whether it is their questionable choices that slowly deteriorates their corner on the market, or they eventually take over and we have no choice but to shop there. We have government laws regarding the latter, so i think eventually Walmart will see it's demise, it might just take a while.

degrawj

ah yes, good ol' wall mart. i can't remember the last time i even stepped into one of those redneck, conservative, corporate rat cages.

gibber71

The only store I've ever heard of that favors guns and religious content over pussy. Well it could be worse;everything could be in French and English.

Liquor Dealer

You might be surprised at how powerful Walmart is. I don't have the souce but in the recent past Walmart has all but killed off several recording artists by refusing to sell their music - The following is probably not a real good source but at the istant it was all I found. Walmart has tremendous control over man industries simply because of their buying power. In the music real something over 50% of all music sold in the US is sold by Walmart. They can do the same to publishing or any other industry they choose to attack - irregardless of the reason.

http://www.davelippman.com/walmart/whyihatewalmart.html

Wal-Mart tells the record industry what they don't like, and the industry produces special "clean" versions for sale by Wal-Mart - versions which are then resold to other retailers. Not to defend obscenity, but look who's deciding what's obscene? Is Wal-Mart your daddy? They are the biggest music retailer in the country - in many places, the only music retailer. Wal-Mart has become the W-chip, blocking or altering album covers and lyrics - not on your home television, but at the global level. Such power is never restricted to obscenity - it always leads to wider controls. They cause musicians to censor themselves in advance. Get Wal-Mart out of the censorship business

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Life isn't always a bowl of cherries, sometimes it's more like a jar of Jalapenos --- what you say or do today might burn your ass tomorrow!!!

BBtB

Okay before I rant I want it known that I have no religous affliation and at best am agnostic.


Why whenever someone bring up religion does someone bring up "fucking a boy"? Lets recall that that whole scandal was with a very few CATHOLIC preists. I was not raised catholic and the majority of these special intrest groups are not catholic. What would you want them to do about the preists fucking boys if they were though? Now one thing I want to point out the those out there who know nothing of religion. Catholicism and Protestantism are two completly differnt fields of the same religion. But they are far enough apart they are damn near two seperate religions. That said. Lets remember that wal-mart was founded by and for protestants as a rule. While it has definitely gone down hill and became more money hungry since the death of ol Sam Walton it still looks at its rural roots more then any other. Frankly I am suprised it sold any of these magizines in the first place. I think they are all trash that offer no (or very little) entertainment value anyway.

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Meridae'n once played "death" at a game of chess that lasted for over two years. He finally beat death in a best 34 out of 67 match. At that time he could ask for any one thing and he could wish for the hope of all mankind... he looked death right in the eye and said ...

"I would like about three fiddy"

MSD

Anyone care to focus on the issue of below-minimum-wage pay rates and forced overtime, not to mention the secret $10,000 life insurance policies they take out on each employee and never tell them about, collecting money years after they die?

I think we have more important issues to worry about than magazine sales.

limited

This normally wouldn't be an issue, as I believe just as much as the next person that stores can sell whatever they like for however much they like. Its simple economics, supply and demand. However, Walmart has become so huge that they shut out other smaller stores (look at KMart, Ames, Target- they're all going downhill). Once Walmart gains a monopoly, they censor things and there is no way around it.

suviko

"I think we have more important issues to worry about" is an annoying argument. We could aswell stop this whole forum and go home and worry about the Really Important Matters like will the end of the world come tomorrow, but alas, as long as we live in this world and have a free web forum, why can't we whine and worry about what ever we want! WORRY ON, COMRADES!!

Daval

Walmart is immensly powerful and I think its a sad day in the US when Walmart abuses their power for censorship.

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"It is impossible to obtain a conviction for sodomy from an English jury. Half of them don't believe that it can physically be done, and the other half are doing it."
Winston Churchill

bender

Perhaps I'm worng but isn't Wal-Mart a smaller immage of the country that it was founded in.
Please don't flame me on this as my comment isn't a shot but just an observation.

mongo

I think that's a shame.It's just a company trying to please what it think's is it's largest customer base.Still sad though in my opinion.

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Mongo like candy

SysteMatiC

It's a free country i guess and if walmart doesnt want to sell "lad" magazines, oh well if we want them we can get them elsewhere.

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I have more respect for a man who says what he means, even if he is wrong, then one who acts like an angel, but is nothing but a devil.

Liquor Dealer

Walmart could probably be more closely compared to an absolute dictatorship. I f you will look at this company you will be surprised and probably shocked. Walmart is the most sued corporation imn the world. Not because of someone slipping on the floor ar that type of bullshit - sued for non-payment, employee abuse (I am sure there is probably a term for this?) Walmart is a giant consignment store. It is impossible for even large corporations to compete with a company that is able to bully people into giving them the merchandise that they sell and hopefully, sometime in the future paying them for it. Walmart pays for very little - they dictate the price that they are going to pay in the first place, and they pay 90 to 120 days after they sell your merchandise. Remind you of the old Greek shipping tycoons - it should, they are using money and stock that is not theirs to expand all over the country and so far as I know into other countries. Their tremendous market share lets them dictate what is sold and will not be sold - makes no different if its magazines or music, tires or TV sets.

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Life isn't always a bowl of cherries, sometimes it's more like a jar of Jalapenos --- what you say or do today might burn your ass tomorrow!!!

l_o_c

How is is respect for the individual not to let them make choices? These magazines are PG-13 material.

Frank Zappa, when he testified before a committie about the PMRC (the people who forced stickers to be put on CD's) warned that while it wasn't in and of itself censorship, it would lead to it by stores refusing to carry sticker albums, thus killing what they don't like. Wal-Mart (and some others) are doing just that.

The removal of the magazines doesn't bother me; what bothers me is the symbolic gesture it sends. It's a symbolic slap in the face to anyone who still believes that coporations don't own us.