Gas Prices to Go UP UP UP! - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Astrocloud · 03-31-2004, 06:59 AM

Quote:

OPEC Rigging In Vienna
Dan Ackman, 03.31.04, 8:55 AM ET

NEW YORK - The Organization of the Petroleum Exporting Countries, or OPEC, meeting in Vienna today, is ready to go ahead with planned cuts in oil production, despite world crude oil prices that are already far higher than they were during the brief crisis periods leading up to the Iraq war.

Vienna is the capital of Austria, a member of the European Union, a body that has recently stepped up its enforcement of antitrust laws and has ruled against U.S. firms like Microsoft (nasdaq: MSFT - news - people ) and General Electric (nyse: GE - news - people ). But the OPEC Ministers go about their business freely in the ancient city, their business being the controlling of supplies and the rigging of markets.

According to U.S. Energy Administration data, U.S. energy consumption is down slightly in the last three years and petroleum consumption is up by less than 2%. Petroleum imports from OPEC have actually declined, but overall imports have increased to 56.1% of consumption in 2003, from 52.9% in 2000.

Oil prices are near 13-year highs. OPEC leader Saudi Arabia secured support from other cartel members for tighter oil supply curbs. The oil minister for Libya, a nation now seeking to re-enter world markets apart from oil, was quoted by Reuters as saying that OPEC nations were "mostly" in favor of pushing ahead with lower output quotas that were agreed to last month in Algeria for implementation April 1.

While Kuwait and the United Arab Emirates were arguing to delay supply curbs, the Saudis have carried the day with Iran arguing it was too late to reverse February's Algiers deal to cut output by one million barrels, or 4% per day, Reuters said.

"We are still expecting to maintain the cuts we decided in Algiers," said Algerian Oil Minister Chakib Khelil.

In the United States, crude prices are hovering at about $36.40, compared to $26.50 six months ago. Gasoline prices are also at record levels, not accounting for inflation.

With oil and gas prices soaring in a world economy where most commodity prices are falling, the Bush Administration is said to be pressing OPEC to reverse itself and raise exports, but it is meeting little success.

OPEC ministers are pointing to a seasonal drop in demand to justify existing policies. "More oil now will make a glut in the market and force prices to collapse, something we don't want," Saudi Oil Minister Ali Ibrahim Naimi told reporters in Vienna. "Throwing more oil on the market would be destructive for everybody."

Kuwait's oil minister, Sheikh Ahmad Fahd al-Ahmad al-Sabah, said it would be better for OPEC to wait to cut quotas until members gather in Lebanon in June, Bloomberg News reports.

The Saudi and Algerian ministers said prices are rising because of speculation in the market and not because of a shortage.

http://www.forbes.com/business/2004/...31topnews.html

yournamehere · 03-31-2004, 07:15 AM

Hint: Americans drive their cars more in the summer, which makes it the best time for the people selling it to raise the price for maximum profit.

This has happened every spring since I can remember.
What's different about this year? The Saudis are gouging their friends, the U.S. oil companies (probably with undisclosed tax-free kickbacks), who in turn do it to us - with an additional profit tacked on.

Every year this is treated by the news media as something mysterious; a half-hearted investigation is done by the friends of the oil companies, and the result is always that there was no wrongdoing or price fixing. Right.

And every year we believe it, pay outrageous (to Americans) gas prices while we take our vacations, and in the fall, the prices mysteriously fall back to only slightly higher than last year.

Raleighbum · 03-31-2004, 08:11 AM

Operation iraqi didn't work then.....

feelgood · 03-31-2004, 08:23 AM

Who the hell do we need to invade to get some decent gas price around here?

wubbawubba · 03-31-2004, 08:35 AM

if only electric cars weren't so lame...

flamingdog · 03-31-2004, 08:44 AM

you americans... your eyes would pop out on stalks if you saw what we pay for gas.

filtherton · 03-31-2004, 08:48 AM

*glad he doesn't drive an suv*

Superbelt · 03-31-2004, 08:53 AM

We should be paying 3 to 4 dollars a gallon here. Tax the fuck out of it. Instead of mandating tighter mpg standards, just make it good policy for the automakers to find a better way.
Not many navigators and expeditions sold that way. More Prius and Civics though.

3 - 4 dollars is closer to the true cost of driving in this country anyway with the military needs to defend and fight for the resources and the true impact on our infrastructure and environment. Still well below, but closer.

eribrav · 03-31-2004, 08:54 AM

Really, I don't know why some Americans think they have a right to cheap gasoline!

Adjusted for inflation over the past 20 years, gasoline is still not that expensive. If it truly were, we'd stop wasting so much of it. I don't care what anyone chooses to drive, that's their decision. But don't whine about high gas prices if you choose to drive something that gets 15 mpg.

Superbelt · 03-31-2004, 09:07 AM

We spend a lot more on price controlled Milk and orange juice and apple juice.
Hell bottled water costs more than gasoline.

Yet everyone complains about the gas.

Derwood · 03-31-2004, 10:05 AM

Thank god cars don't run on Whiteout....

Yeah, everytime I want to complain about gas prices, I remember that it's 4x as expensive in Europe

Lokus · 03-31-2004, 10:18 AM

That's because we don't buy 14 gallons of bottled water at a time and it's necessary to drive. Well, at least I don't, I don't trust that shit. Gimme some EB mud anyday.

yournamehere · 03-31-2004, 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Superbelt
We should be paying 3 to 4 dollars a gallon here. Tax the fuck out of it. Instead of mandating tighter mpg standards, just make it good policy for the automakers to find a better way.
Not many navigators and expeditions sold that way. More Prius and Civics though.

But the people who can afford Navigators and Expeditions don't give a rat's ass about the price of gas.
Also - don't forget that if we did pay that much, flying would only be for the wealthy. Continental just added $15 each way to the price of its tickets - just for this little recent increase - doubling the price of gas would make air travel too expensive for a lot of people.

onetime2 · 03-31-2004, 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by yournamehere
But the people who can afford Navigators and Expeditions don't give a rat's ass about the price of gas.
Also - don't forget that if we did pay that much, flying would only be for the wealthy. Continental just added $15 each way to the price of its tickets - just for this little recent increase - doubling the price of gas would make air travel too expensive for a lot of people.

While I agree with your point, I think Continental repealed their fare hikes. Read something about that today in the paper.

filtherton · 03-31-2004, 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by yournamehere
But the people who can afford Navigators and Expeditions don't give a rat's ass about the price of gas.
Also - don't forget that if we did pay that much, flying would only be for the wealthy. Continental just added $15 each way to the price of its tickets - just for this little recent increase - doubling the price of gas would make air travel too expensive for a lot of people.

Can't most europeans afford to fly? They pay a bootyload for gas. I guess i don't really follow.

Anyways, the shitty thing is people who don't care about the price of gas are collectively upping demand by driving low mpg suv's and contributing to the increased prices, thereby bending over the average, cost conscious sedan driver. Typically american, though.

yournamehere · 03-31-2004, 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by filtherton
Can't most europeans afford to fly? They pay a bootyload for gas. I guess i don't really follow.

I don't really know the answer to that, either. Perhaps the European governments don't tax jet fuel as heavily as gasoline (jet fuel is basically diesel fuel). Or perhaps it's subsidized.
But in the United States, when gas prices go up, so do airline ticket prices.

Evil Milkman · 03-31-2004, 03:06 PM

This sucks. Some people, like my dad and I, own a lawn care business. These gas prices are killing us, and I've gotta help pay for college somehow next fall.

splck · 03-31-2004, 04:08 PM

I write off the cost of fuel, so I could care less if it costs more.

Superbelt · 03-31-2004, 04:15 PM

Get one of those manual drum blade lawn mowers.

No gas, and little maintenance.

hunnychile · 03-31-2004, 06:53 PM

All I can say is that anyone who drives an SUV & doesn't work in contruction or on a farm is just simply an ignorant & selfish fool because it's BushCo & oil pals who control gas prices in the US. They have for a very long time. They pay to make you to think that it's Your "American Birthright" to drive a gas guzzling road hog like an SUV. God Bless the Amercun Cars & Trucks! (Safety - yeah right?! Can you say manipulated data? Now smile bud as we ream your butt good) It's so you the Faithful but dumb Amercun can fill Their pockets with cash $$$. Most of us who understand the way the gas/oil comsumption "is controlled" here in the US are resigned to looking for those smarter alternatives & hybrids (so elequently lost in Patent Hell...) and we hope to buy & drive smart hybrids soon! Anyhow, 85% of the gas in pumps in the US is actually coming from Venezuela and the off shore rigging around Central America - where the US Corps. incidentally Own those oil rigs and corporate "cousins". Having been an EE at Haliburton, Texas in the early 80's I speak from experience. Oh yeah, if this is my last post you'll KNOW I was telling the truth....

Also just for the coup de gras, in some northern EU countries they sell gas based upon what you do - if your a framer and have a Harvester, you will get cheaper gas. But then they're smart enough to provide fun, fast & clean public transportation. C'mon, why do you think the US stopped substidizing our Train rail system in the US?? It worked too well in Europe.

skysooner · 03-31-2004, 06:53 PM

Them announcing cuts won't exactly help or hurt prices. What controls prices is the actual supply on hand and the OPEC member nations tend to cheat (especially with the oil price as high as it is now).

hunnychile · 03-31-2004, 07:15 PM

Be aware that OPEC has No control over the Fuel Products actually being marketed & consumed (and manipulated) in the continental U.S.

As a nation, we must get a firm grip on the reality of this power structure. Oh yeah, and don't forget all the oil in Alaska we have sitting on hold. Let's design those Hyrids - and make them look sleeker and hot & Soon!

SecretMethod70 · 03-31-2004, 07:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by wubbawubba
if only electric cars weren't so lame...

Seems nice enough to me

(Yeah, yeah, technically it's hybrid, big deal)

feelgood · 03-31-2004, 09:23 PM

Electric cars eat up a lot of juice and ya gotta recharge em after every trip. Then again, how many "gas" stations are there out for electric cars? Practically none around Southern Alberta.

hunnychile · 03-31-2004, 09:27 PM

Of course they look lame now....just wait - if enough people get into them the designs will evolve faster. A natural phenom. And so form follows function, not a bad way to design anything worth while.....
My friend just got the Prius that's electric & runs on gas (smart) and he said that this month he only spent 12 dollars on gas and he travelled 662 miles in 4 weeks time. He plugs it in at night at home. His wife said it's so quiet that the tunes sound great while cruising. And no emission to speak of which really makes me want to check one out.

I just paid $2.20 per gallon two days ago here in N. Ca. and I'm tired of spending so much cash as the pump. And my mid sized Mazda is great on gas, averaging about 32 to 36 miles per gallon when I check & remain tuned up.

smooth · 03-31-2004, 11:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by yournamehere
What's different about this year?

Demand from Asia.

I didn't know the Prius could be plugged in and recharged! Cool, but from what I read they aren't SULEV and actually do put out more nasties than some of the more strictly controlled emissions of various Honda and Toyota models.

My wife and I are excited now that they finally made a hybrid Civic.

Yeah baby!

ah, bummer. I can't post the picture of the souped up hybrid civic I just built. Go here to build your own and see how badass they are.

Astrocloud · 05-12-2004, 02:55 PM

Yes, I believe that when I wrote this -gas prices were 1.40 a gallon now -it's up to 1.90 around here.

Asuka{eve} · 05-12-2004, 03:19 PM

i want a hybrid car

irseg · 05-12-2004, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Superbelt
We should be paying 3 to 4 dollars a gallon here. Tax the fuck out of it. Instead of mandating tighter mpg standards, just make it good policy for the automakers to find a better way.
Not many navigators and expeditions sold that way. More Prius and Civics though.

Nice policy there. People who can afford large SUVs won't give a fuck about paying $80 instead of $40 to fill up. But people who can barely afford to pay $15 to fill up their old Escort to get to work will have a much bigger problem paying $30. I thought you liberals were always looking out for the working class?

World's King · 05-12-2004, 03:48 PM

Buy one of these and only ever spend no ore then $10 on gas every time you fill up.

DEI37 · 05-12-2004, 03:50 PM

Gas has hit $2.059/gallon here. I think the increase is silly. To raise it THAT much in such a short amount of time is assinine. Six months agao, I was paying 1.599/gallon. And I haven't gotten a raise in 18 months. I drive 45 miles a day just for work. Sure, it doesn't sound like much, and I don't drive an SUV or a truck, but the $0.45/gallon increase translates in to extra money that isn't budgeted. By the time a week is done, I've probably gone through 25 gallons of gasoline. Doesn't sound like much? That's an extra $600/yr. And that's if I don't take long trips, which I do about three times a year.

Astrocloud · 05-12-2004, 04:40 PM

EDINBURGH: This time last year, global equity markets were rising strongly in the aftermath of the Iraq war. There was relief at the short duration of the conflict and widespread confidence that the situation in the Middle East would improve. Oil prices were also widely expected to fall. Both expectations have been proved wrong. Tension across the Middle East is if anything higher. Fears of terrorist attacks on oil installations in the Gulf have helped propel the oil price to a 13-year high. Ironically, the one oil -producing country not enjoying any benefit from this surge is Iraq. And so much for those conspiracy theories that the U.S. only attacked the regime to engineer a fall in the oil price to help U.S. business. It is the failure of the coalition to have worked on a post-war strategy for Iraq that has helped drive the oil price close to all-time highs and to threaten world recovery. Dearer oil poses a direct and immediate threat to the industrial, transport and travel sectors of the Group of Seven advanced economies. It forces up key raw material costs for business. And it has a wider if more diffuse effect on the general level of inflation. There is now a hardening expectation that US interest rates will be raised next month, sooner than previously expected. And across Asian stock markets, prices fell sharply on concern that dearer oil could bring China's booming economy to a shuddering halt. As worrying for President Bush is the potential political impact of dearer oil: American consumers do not take at all kindly to rising prices at the pumps.
.
Worrying though this slide in confidence is, the situation by no means justifies a blind sell-off. Dearer oil in time works in much the same way as an interest-rate hike and should mitigate the pressure for further rises later in the year. More immediately, the leading OPEC producer Saudi Arabia called yesterday on the oil cartel to raise supply limits by at least 1.5 million barrels a day, or just over 6 per cent, to prevent high prices derailing global economic growth. There is talk of an output increase of as much as two million barrels a day at the next OPEC meeting scheduled for 3 June.
.
The Saudi call helped to cool the oil-price frenzy yesterday. But much now critically depends on the US-led coalition getting a grip on events, rather than being caught almost every day at their mercy. The Scotsman

http://www.iht.com/articles/519602.html

Speed_Gibson · 05-12-2004, 05:36 PM

Gas in the US is still far cheaper than the 5 dollars/pounds per gallon or more you pay over in the UK and elsewhere in Europe

heyal256 · 05-12-2004, 07:36 PM

I found this article that blames China for the rise in oil prices.

http://www.forbes.com/business/energ...tr1368346.html

Quote:

China's oil thirst changes global flows
By Felicia Loo

SINGAPORE, May 12 (Reuters) - China's mighty thirst for oil, and healthy demand growth in Asia, is pushing up the price of spot barrels and changing traditional flows of crude and refined products across the globe, analysts say.

Middle East refiners are sending increasingly more oil products eastwards at the expense of supplying the West. Crude from South America, West Africa and Russia are regularly flowing to Asia in bigger volumes than before.

"China has become the arbiter of the marginal barrel of crude and gas oil, although they are not the biggest importer, it now sets prices," said Al Troner, director of Asia Pacific Energy Consulting based near Seattle.

"No matter how you cut it, China will be a major influence on global oil flows even if its oil demand grows by half of what forecasters are predicting," said Troner.

China overtook Japan last year to become the second biggest consumer after the United States, soaking up about 5.49 million barrels a day (bpd) of the world market of 78.66 million bpd.

This year, the International Energy Agency (IEA) expects China's consumption to jump almost 14 percent, or 750,000 bpd, to 6.24 million bpd. Some predict growth could be as high as one million bpd in 2004 and for the next two to three years.

DEMAND ACROSS THE BARREL

A shortage of electricity and massive infrastructure projects have sent use of fuel oil and gas oil (diesel) soaring. Imports of fuel oil are expected to hit record levels this year and since January, China has been a net importer of gas oil after being a net exporter for the previous five years.

"Though (China's) government tries to maximise diesel production by enhancing crude runs, there is a limit. Over a long time, China will become a net importer of diesel," said Wu Kang, a fellow at the East-West Center in Honolulu.

China is a growing net importer of jet fuel. Its gasoline exports have fallen sharply in 2004 from record highs last year as car sales keep double-digit growth, leaving buyers such as Vietnam, Indonesia and Australia to scramble for barrels.

Top Japanese refiner Nippon Oil Corp hopes to cash in on the China demand bonanza and triple fuel oil sales to 1.9 million tonnes in 2004 under term supply deals with Sinopec Corp, Sinochem Corp and trader China Oil.

Brazil's national oil firm Petrobras is expected to sign this month a cooperation deal for term oil products with Sinopec in what would be the first oil sales link between the countries.

Most of the extra demand is driven by China, but continued restructuring in Asia's refining sector after almost a decade of chronic overcapacity and low margins is also making a difference.

Asia lost 346,000 bpd of refining capacity in 2003 after plants in Australia, Japan and the Philippines shut. Japan also has unscheduled closures at two plants with a combined 333,000 bpd of capacity after fires.

"China has created a different balance in the region and this is being amplified by growth in other countries and refinery closures. It's all creating a tighter environment, especially in gasoline and gas oil," said Lawrence Eagles, senior analyst at the Paris-based IEA.

Some European refiners received a boost to profits earlier this year as high gasoline prices in Asia pulled barrels from Europe, a rarely seen arbitrage play.

CHANGE IN SEASONAL PATTERNS

Frederic Lasserre, head of commodities research at Societe Generale, said rising Asian consumption was smoothing out traditional peaks and troughs in demand in the European and North American markets.

Consumption in the northern hemisphere normally spikes in the winter and summer months when demand for heating fuels and for motor fuels peak. Asia's demand is less seasonal.

"The impact of Asian demand is not just on prices, it's a complete change of flows. This has clearly modified seasonality on a global basis, which is why we have not seen a drop in second-quarter demand this year," said Lasserre.

Benchmark oil prices have stayed strong this year and hit 13-year peaks at over $40 a barrel in May. This is partly due to strong Asian demand, but also because of low gasoline stocks in the United States and fears of disruptions to oil flows from the volatile Middle East, home to two-thirds of global reserves.

Much of the Middle East's exports of middle distillates go to Asia, leaving European refiners to cover requirements in the Atlantic Basin -- Europe, the Mediterranean, Africa, Latin America and, at the margin, even the U.S. market, Lasserre said.

Asia's dependency on Middle East supplies is reflected in a tendency for Asian refining margins to spike during periods of maintenance at plants in the Middle East Gulf.

"It shows the importance of certain marginal products imports into the region, for example naphtha," said the IEA's Eagles.

Asia also takes almost 80 percent of its crude imports from the Middle East, mostly under term agreements.

But again, the impact of growth is causing competition as Asian refiners look to diversify crude sources. Asian, North American and European refiners are battling for light crudes, especially from Africa, pushing up price differentials and increasing price volatility, said SG's Lasserre. (Additional reporting by Jonathan Landreth and Tanya Pang)

Copyright 2004, Reuters News Service

skier · 05-12-2004, 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by The Original King
Buy one of these and only ever spend no ore then $10 on gas every time you fill up.

yeah they are lots of fun to drive in the winter on ice and snow. And chicks dig scars.

MrFlux · 05-12-2004, 08:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by skier
yeah they are lots of fun to drive in the winter on ice and snow. And chicks dig scars.

I want one! No ice or snow in my neck of the woods

(yes, even in winter)

guthmund · 05-12-2004, 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Superbelt
We should be paying 3 to 4 dollars a gallon here. Tax the fuck out of it.

Quote:

Originally posted by yournamehere
But the people who can afford Navigators and Expeditions don't give a rat's ass about the price of gas.

That's right. It's the poor (just a generalization) that will suffer the most from a huge gas tax. Can't buy new cars; stuck driving 15 year old jalopys, which cart them the miles from their home to their minimum wage jobs. I know, it's maddening to see all these pseudo-riche in their big ass SUVs adding all the stupid shit that money can buy, but a lot of us drive SUVs. In some cases, we use them according to their purpose and in some cases a 15 year old bronco is all we can afford.

Quote:

Originally posted by eribrav
Really, I don't know why some Americans think they have a right to cheap gasoline!

To be fair, we do a lot to protect the oil over there. To paraphrase Jon Stewart; We deserve the employee discount.

WarWagon · 05-12-2004, 10:54 PM

My 110 is holding steady at about $5 a gallon, heh heh. This IS all the more reason for me to start looking for a used CBR though...

irseg · 05-12-2004, 11:25 PM

I know a guy who drives an old Town Car because it's all he can afford (his parents gave it to him). He sometimes goes without lunch so he can afford to keep gas in it to get to work.

But I guess in the liberal view of the world, everyone can afford to buy a brand new 50 mpg hybrid, and anyone who doesn't is a rich evil Republican who deserves to be soaked with high gas prices.

Averett · 05-13-2004, 04:24 AM

Man I want a hybrid Civic so bad!

03-31-2004, 07:15 AM	#2 (permalink)
yournamehere Invisible Location: tentative, at best	Hint: Americans drive their cars more in the summer, which makes it the best time for the people selling it to raise the price for maximum profit. This has happened every spring since I can remember. What's different about this year? The Saudis are gouging their friends, the U.S. oil companies (probably with undisclosed tax-free kickbacks), who in turn do it to us - with an additional profit tacked on. Every year this is treated by the news media as something mysterious; a half-hearted investigation is done by the friends of the oil companies, and the result is always that there was no wrongdoing or price fixing. Right. And every year we believe it, pay outrageous (to Americans) gas prices while we take our vacations, and in the fall, the prices mysteriously fall back to only slightly higher than last year. __________________ If you want to avoid 95% of internet spelling errors: "If your ridiculous pants are too loose, you're definitely going to lose them. Tell your two loser friends over there that they're going to lose theirs, too." It won't hurt your fashion sense, either.

03-31-2004, 08:23 AM	#4 (permalink)
feelgood Free Mars! Location: I dunno, there's white people around me saying "eh" all the time	Who the hell do we need to invade to get some decent gas price around here? __________________ Looking out the window, that's an act of war. Staring at my shoes, that's an act of war. Committing an act of war? Oh you better believe that's an act of war

03-31-2004, 10:05 AM	#11 (permalink)
Derwood Who You Crappin? Location: Everywhere and Nowhere	Thank god cars don't run on Whiteout.... Yeah, everytime I want to complain about gas prices, I remember that it's 4x as expensive in Europe __________________ "You can't shoot a country until it becomes a democracy." - Willravel

03-31-2004, 10:18 AM	#12 (permalink)
Lokus I can't think of a good title Location: East Bay Area, CA	That's because we don't buy 14 gallons of bottled water at a time and it's necessary to drive. Well, at least I don't, I don't trust that shit. Gimme some EB mud anyday. __________________ The black wind howls...

03-31-2004, 04:08 PM	#18 (permalink)
splck it's jam Location: Lowerainland BC	I write off the cost of fuel, so I could care less if it costs more. __________________ nice line eh?

03-31-2004, 08:11 AM	#3 (permalink)
Raleighbum Crazy Location: Lookin for that above	Operation iraqi didn't work then.....

03-31-2004, 08:35 AM	#5 (permalink)
wubbawubba Tilted Location: Lexington	if only electric cars weren't so lame...

03-31-2004, 08:44 AM	#6 (permalink)
flamingdog Still fighting it.	you americans... your eyes would pop out on stalks if you saw what we pay for gas.

03-31-2004, 08:48 AM	#7 (permalink)
filtherton Junkie Location: In the land of ice and snow.	glad he doesn't drive an suv

03-31-2004, 08:53 AM	#8 (permalink)
Superbelt This vexes me. I am terribly vexed. Location: Grantville, Pa	We should be paying 3 to 4 dollars a gallon here. Tax the fuck out of it. Instead of mandating tighter mpg standards, just make it good policy for the automakers to find a better way. Not many navigators and expeditions sold that way. More Prius and Civics though. 3 - 4 dollars is closer to the true cost of driving in this country anyway with the military needs to defend and fight for the resources and the true impact on our infrastructure and environment. Still well below, but closer.

03-31-2004, 08:54 AM	#9 (permalink)
eribrav Junkie Location: upstate NY	Really, I don't know why some Americans think they have a right to cheap gasoline! Adjusted for inflation over the past 20 years, gasoline is still not that expensive. If it truly were, we'd stop wasting so much of it. I don't care what anyone chooses to drive, that's their decision. But don't whine about high gas prices if you choose to drive something that gets 15 mpg.

03-31-2004, 09:07 AM	#10 (permalink)
Superbelt This vexes me. I am terribly vexed. Location: Grantville, Pa	We spend a lot more on price controlled Milk and orange juice and apple juice. Hell bottled water costs more than gasoline. Yet everyone complains about the gas.

03-31-2004, 03:06 PM	#17 (permalink)
Evil Milkman Addict Location: Illinois	This sucks. Some people, like my dad and I, own a lawn care business. These gas prices are killing us, and I've gotta help pay for college somehow next fall.

03-31-2004, 04:15 PM	#19 (permalink)
Superbelt This vexes me. I am terribly vexed. Location: Grantville, Pa	Get one of those manual drum blade lawn mowers. No gas, and little maintenance.

03-31-2004, 06:53 PM	#20 (permalink)
hunnychile Alien Anthropologist Location: Between Boredom and Nirvana	All I can say is that anyone who drives an SUV & doesn't work in contruction or on a farm is just simply an ignorant & selfish fool because it's BushCo & oil pals who control gas prices in the US. They have for a very long time. They pay to make you to think that it's Your "American Birthright" to drive a gas guzzling road hog like an SUV. God Bless the Amercun Cars & Trucks! (Safety - yeah right?! Can you say manipulated data? Now smile bud as we ream your butt good) It's so you the Faithful but dumb Amercun can fill Their pockets with cash $$$. Most of us who understand the way the gas/oil comsumption "is controlled" here in the US are resigned to looking for those smarter alternatives & hybrids (so elequently lost in Patent Hell...) and we hope to buy & drive smart hybrids soon! Anyhow, 85% of the gas in pumps in the US is actually coming from Venezuela and the off shore rigging around Central America - where the US Corps. incidentally Own those oil rigs and corporate "cousins". Having been an EE at Haliburton, Texas in the early 80's I speak from experience. Oh yeah, if this is my last post you'll KNOW I was telling the truth.... Also just for the coup de gras, in some northern EU countries they sell gas based upon what you do - if your a framer and have a Harvester, you will get cheaper gas. But then they're smart enough to provide fun, fast & clean public transportation. C'mon, why do you think the US stopped substidizing our Train rail system in the US?? It worked too well in Europe. __________________ "I need compassion, understanding and chocolate." - NJB Last edited by hunnychile; 03-31-2004 at 07:06 PM..

03-31-2004, 06:53 PM	#21 (permalink)
skysooner Registered User Location: Oklahoma	Them announcing cuts won't exactly help or hurt prices. What controls prices is the actual supply on hand and the OPEC member nations tend to cheat (especially with the oil price as high as it is now).

03-31-2004, 07:15 PM	#22 (permalink)
hunnychile Alien Anthropologist Location: Between Boredom and Nirvana	Be aware that OPEC has No control over the Fuel Products actually being marketed & consumed (and manipulated) in the continental U.S. As a nation, we must get a firm grip on the reality of this power structure. Oh yeah, and don't forget all the oil in Alaska we have sitting on hold. Let's design those Hyrids - and make them look sleeker and hot & Soon! __________________ "I need compassion, understanding and chocolate." - NJB Last edited by hunnychile; 03-31-2004 at 07:19 PM..

03-31-2004, 09:23 PM	#24 (permalink)
feelgood Free Mars! Location: I dunno, there's white people around me saying "eh" all the time	Electric cars eat up a lot of juice and ya gotta recharge em after every trip. Then again, how many "gas" stations are there out for electric cars? Practically none around Southern Alberta. __________________ Looking out the window, that's an act of war. Staring at my shoes, that's an act of war. Committing an act of war? Oh you better believe that's an act of war

03-31-2004, 09:27 PM	#25 (permalink)
hunnychile Alien Anthropologist Location: Between Boredom and Nirvana	Of course they look lame now....just wait - if enough people get into them the designs will evolve faster. A natural phenom. And so form follows function, not a bad way to design anything worth while..... My friend just got the Prius that's electric & runs on gas (smart) and he said that this month he only spent 12 dollars on gas and he travelled 662 miles in 4 weeks time. He plugs it in at night at home. His wife said it's so quiet that the tunes sound great while cruising. And no emission to speak of which really makes me want to check one out. I just paid $2.20 per gallon two days ago here in N. Ca. and I'm tired of spending so much cash as the pump. And my mid sized Mazda is great on gas, averaging about 32 to 36 miles per gallon when I check & remain tuned up. __________________ "I need compassion, understanding and chocolate." - NJB Last edited by hunnychile; 03-31-2004 at 09:33 PM..

05-12-2004, 02:55 PM	#27 (permalink)
Astrocloud Apocalypse Nerd	Yes, I believe that when I wrote this -gas prices were 1.40 a gallon now -it's up to 1.90 around here.

05-12-2004, 03:19 PM	#28 (permalink)
Asuka{eve} Addict Location: Oh God, the rain!	i want a hybrid car

05-12-2004, 03:48 PM	#30 (permalink)
World's King Here Location: Denver City Denver	Buy one of these and only ever spend no ore then $10 on gas every time you fill up. __________________ heavy is the head that wears the crown

05-12-2004, 03:50 PM	#31 (permalink)
DEI37 Go faster! Location: Wisconsin	Gas has hit $2.059/gallon here. I think the increase is silly. To raise it THAT much in such a short amount of time is assinine. Six months agao, I was paying 1.599/gallon. And I haven't gotten a raise in 18 months. I drive 45 miles a day just for work. Sure, it doesn't sound like much, and I don't drive an SUV or a truck, but the $0.45/gallon increase translates in to extra money that isn't budgeted. By the time a week is done, I've probably gone through 25 gallons of gasoline. Doesn't sound like much? That's an extra $600/yr. And that's if I don't take long trips, which I do about three times a year. __________________ Generally speaking, if you were to get what you really deserve, you might be unpleasantly surprised.

05-12-2004, 04:40 PM	#32 (permalink)
Astrocloud Apocalypse Nerd	EDINBURGH: This time last year, global equity markets were rising strongly in the aftermath of the Iraq war. There was relief at the short duration of the conflict and widespread confidence that the situation in the Middle East would improve. Oil prices were also widely expected to fall. Both expectations have been proved wrong. Tension across the Middle East is if anything higher. Fears of terrorist attacks on oil installations in the Gulf have helped propel the oil price to a 13-year high. Ironically, the one oil -producing country not enjoying any benefit from this surge is Iraq. And so much for those conspiracy theories that the U.S. only attacked the regime to engineer a fall in the oil price to help U.S. business. It is the failure of the coalition to have worked on a post-war strategy for Iraq that has helped drive the oil price close to all-time highs and to threaten world recovery. Dearer oil poses a direct and immediate threat to the industrial, transport and travel sectors of the Group of Seven advanced economies. It forces up key raw material costs for business. And it has a wider if more diffuse effect on the general level of inflation. There is now a hardening expectation that US interest rates will be raised next month, sooner than previously expected. And across Asian stock markets, prices fell sharply on concern that dearer oil could bring China's booming economy to a shuddering halt. As worrying for President Bush is the potential political impact of dearer oil: American consumers do not take at all kindly to rising prices at the pumps. . Worrying though this slide in confidence is, the situation by no means justifies a blind sell-off. Dearer oil in time works in much the same way as an interest-rate hike and should mitigate the pressure for further rises later in the year. More immediately, the leading OPEC producer Saudi Arabia called yesterday on the oil cartel to raise supply limits by at least 1.5 million barrels a day, or just over 6 per cent, to prevent high prices derailing global economic growth. There is talk of an output increase of as much as two million barrels a day at the next OPEC meeting scheduled for 3 June. . The Saudi call helped to cool the oil-price frenzy yesterday. But much now critically depends on the US-led coalition getting a grip on events, rather than being caught almost every day at their mercy. The Scotsman http://www.iht.com/articles/519602.html

05-12-2004, 05:36 PM	#33 (permalink)
Speed_Gibson Who knows what evil lurks in the hearts of men? Location: right here of course	Gas in the US is still far cheaper than the 5 dollars/pounds per gallon or more you pay over in the UK and elsewhere in Europe __________________ Started talking to yourself I see. Yes, it's the only way I can be certain of an intelligent conversation. Black Adder

05-12-2004, 10:54 PM	#38 (permalink)
WarWagon Loser	My 110 is holding steady at about $5 a gallon, heh heh. This IS all the more reason for me to start looking for a used CBR though...

05-12-2004, 11:25 PM	#39 (permalink)
irseg Junkie Location: Florida	I know a guy who drives an old Town Car because it's all he can afford (his parents gave it to him). He sometimes goes without lunch so he can afford to keep gas in it to get to work. But I guess in the liberal view of the world, everyone can afford to buy a brand new 50 mpg hybrid, and anyone who doesn't is a rich evil Republican who deserves to be soaked with high gas prices.

05-13-2004, 04:24 AM	#40 (permalink)
Averett Is In Love Location: I'm workin' on it	Man I want a hybrid Civic so bad! __________________ Absence is to love what wind is to fire. It extinguishes the small, it enkindles the great.