Charlatan

Because unlike Europe, the American's built their countries (i.e. Canada and the US) around the automobile. Without the car a very large part of these nations would be screwed economically speaking.

Three cheers for bad urban design!

__________________
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Chiuey

I would have no complaints about gas prices if there were more public transportation available. For those of us that dont live in Big cities, the only way we can commute is via our vehicles. There is something to be said about plain laziness if you're not willing to walk a few blocks to the grocers or to get fast food, but when nothing's within walking distance (more than 2 miles) cars are essential for even just doing things for the house on a daily basis.
So here's my rant... and since we're there inn Iraq, why not try negotiating some cheap gas while we're there? FUCK OPEC and the horse then rode in on, I NEED my cheap gas. FYI, I get 28 mpg and I still need cheap gas!

feelgood

Goddamnit, who do we have to invade to get some decent gas price around here?

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tricks

Consumption is down in the U.S. Oil imports into the U.S. are down. OPEC hasn't cut production yet. And yet, gasoline prices have been going up for the last 6 months, longer even. The Saudi's say it's a lack of U.S. refining ability.

I see another Enron scam. There is no justification for the price increase. Ususally, I see no justification for price increases most of the time as it is. An accident in a refinery cuts production. The fuel to be refined would not get to market for months anyway, and yet, prices of gas increase immediatly.

Oil company profits are at record highs. So, who is manipulating prices?

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pomeranian

Sad, but so fucken true. I looked at the all the vacant (closed down) gas station lots with pumps and signs still intact with their gas prices posted from last year....all the way back in one instance, a gas station that shut down a year after the Gulf War! The prices were $1.96 for regular. We in Southeastern PA have actually broken the 2 Buck mark for a spring which is a first.

We need the alternatives such a ethenol from cornstalks or sugar cane. Too bad industries won't make the technologies readily available or cost effective for the consumers.

Pom

pomeranian

I concur, there are too many of us simply not taking the initiative to find alternatives to the financial reins of the oil industry. Cycling to work everyday for about 7 months of the year saved me about $960 (not factoring in maitenance cost saved). This was when the gas was just under $2 a gallon for regular in Southeastern PA. My comute was 37 miles each way.

I seen the Opec issue on the horizon and took the bull by the horns and tied her up in the garage. I love my car, but to hell with it when the opportunity is open for alternatives. We as Americans can learn from our brothers and sisters in Washington State (bicycling capital of the states) and from countries like Belgium and the Netherlands. Not only is the air cleaner in these locales, but their mortality rates are less health wise and they probably aren't blowing the bank on fat burning products either cause they're doing it natually.

Pom

Spidey

The Prices are also pretty bad here in New Zealand. I've just did a little calculating and its $2.40 per gallon of petrol. Which is much worst than what you have in the states.

Luckily for us we have a very good public transportation system so the train is rather cheap to travel on ^^

Charlatan

pomeranian is right... not enough poeple are looking for alternatives.

Cycling is one but we should be looking into smaller more fuel efficient cars.

Another thing is bio-diesel. Fuel from biomass is CO2 neutral and can be made from anything from chicken poop to soybeans...

I just did a quick calculation and in Canada we are paying the equivalent of $3.10/US gallon (.82/litre). I just heard that a dollar a litre isn't far behind.

Personally I get to work one of three ways, my Vespa, my bicycle or the Streetcar... Living in the city has it's perks.

__________________
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- Old Man Luedecke

pomeranian

I concur....biomass is the way to go. But I believe the only way for this to come to fruit is to have a serious coalition to bring onboard the support of voters from the entire North American continent from Canada down through Mexico Enmass to demand Biomass as a new market. This should be an issue on the voting ballot during elections. I haven't seen it yet here in Southeastern PA anyway. I don't know about the rest you you folks out there.

Pom

ARTelevision

Personally, I don't care about the price of gasoline.
It's a relatively inexpensive necessary commodity.
It would be lower if not for taxation and the politics of environmentalism.

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pomeranian

Yeah... I feel ya on your end; we had this debate before. It is however, not an inexpensive commodity depending on a collective set of circumstances and individual curcumstances. I actually ran out of gas in Valley Forge earlier this week cause I didn't even have a dollar to tap into the tank to get me home from Philly. Thank God my bike was mounted and I was able to ride home to grab a gas can.

With the high cost of child care, mortgage, insurance (well that's not bad at all, but another collective factor), food, beggars at my job (students, administration and staff), it gets to be a big issue with me.

The distance I travel to work some say is too far and generally takes 50 minutes to 1:05 minutes during rush periods. The gas I swear is getting watered down as well, or is it the heat from the road surface making my tires stick, thus a lack of road surface resistance. I fill up twice a week ($60-$65) but get paid every other week. My free budget is 125-130, therefore, bills paid, but i'm broke from the damn gas and jones'n.

I can't wait till schools over so I can put cobwebs on my car and transit via the bike. Bike commuters holla at me.

Pom

Charlatan

It is the hidden costs that make me wonder why we continue to drag our collective feet on alternative sources to fossil fuels... Hidden costs mostly having to do with air quality. The smog and pollution from coal burning powerplants and internal combution engines have resulted in massive increases in resperatory illness and death.

The more I read about it I think we should be seriously ramping up the research money into fuel cells and building nuclear plants to power the hydrogen reclamation process...


As for biomass... There are two bio-diesel stations in Toronto... they are growing in popularity... the main users of bio-diesel are farmers but there is an increased use by car drivers... My next car just might be a diesel.

Phaenx

Whats up girls? Check out my ride, it gets 40 miles to the gallon.

*Leans on hood*

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Fenton-J-Cool

You can clean that car 'till you rub off the clearcoat, and take a picture of it at any x-treme angle you please... and it won't look good.

__________________
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merkerguitars

I'm just going to do a easier and cheaper thing than a hybrid....just buy a volkswagen TDI (turbo diesel) car and make my own biodiesel for $20 a month (about 40 gallons) for making my own homemade fuel I can drive 1080 estimated miles. OPEC can kiss my white ass when I quit depending on their foreign fuel. (the only time I will use foreign fuel is for my motorcycle or mustang which either I don't drive a whole lot to make a big dent in the system.

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Charlatan

How difficult is it to make your own bio-diesel?

__________________
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- Old Man Luedecke

merkerguitars

Relatively easy, there are many sources on the internet about it, just google it. All you need for raw materials is methanol, lye and oil (waste or new vegetable oil)

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Look at my mustang please feel free to comment!

http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/showthread.php?t=26985

TM875

I have a 97 Grand Marquis dective edition. It's all that I could really afford to buy, but gets something like 16mpg.

Needless to say, I very often do not eat lunch, try to stay under $3 bucks for dinner. There's too much in this world to pay for.

On the topic of us driving hybrids...let me walk first.
I am an American. It's in my national right to drive something with no less than 8 cylinders, no less that 289 cubic inches of displacement, and no less than 14 feet in length. American cars are historical - don't make us into a pansy car country like, say, England.

__________________
"I've made only one mistake in my life. But I made it over and over and over. That was saying 'yes' when I meant 'no'. Forgive me."

Cynthetiq

Nice.

Now people say things like we're warring for oil. No Blood for Oil. Bush and Co. are all people who've been part of the oil cartel etc. etc. etc. (please read that like the King of Siam from The King and I)

They seem to forget that over the past couple decades the tree huggers have all be NIMBY (not in my backyard) about building oil refineries and oil storage tanks. We've found more and more oil so there's no real shortage. There's a shortage in processing it.

Instead of having a dual pronged attack at allowing a few new refineries and storage tanks AND forcing higher CAFE standards, they opted to just say, "Nope, NIMBY!"

They forgot about making sure to lobby Congress about SUVs and the light truck segment. They forgot to press for better accountability from the automakers.

Well bully for them. I hope that though they may have some gas sippers, that they pay $5 per gallon just like the rest of the world. I hope that the SUV owners have to pay $5 per gallon because they didn't THINK about operating costs or extra maintenance cost, TOTAL COST OF OWNERSHIP.

I got a little Neon for a reason. Heck I would have had a Honda if the dealer wasn't a dick and I didn't get a bargain on the Neon.

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Hrothgar

I'm thankful for the fact that I don't have a car at the moment.

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Hwed

When people stop driving massive SUVs with single occupants while making 1 hour commutes at 75 miles per hour...

When people stop paying five bucks for a cup of coffee at Starbucks...

When people stop paying $1.29 for a bottle of tap water...

Then, and only then, will I gripe about paying $2.00 a gallon for gasoline.

Think about what's required to refine crude oil (essential to the world as we know it) and get it to the consumer, vs what's required to produce a cup of coffee or bottle of water (luxury items).

Gasoline is a bargain.

Astrocloud

High Gas Prices Are Here To Stay
Joann Muller, 05.17.04, 6:00 AM ET

DETROIT - Americans have grown accustomed to short-term spikes in gasoline prices (usually right before the summer's peak driving season begins, it would seem). They shrug it off, fill up their big sport utility vehicles at $2 per gallon and then drive away from the pump comforted in the knowledge that gas prices will come back down eventually

But with global demand for crude oil rising, there's reason to argue that higher gas prices are here to stay.

Global demand is up 3.5% this year, driven by explosive economic growth in China and other emerging markets, and a surprising surge in demand in the United States. Coupled with volatility in the Middle East caused by the war in Iraq, crude oil prices have soared above $41 a gallon. For U.S. automakers, there's a touch of irony in all this. General Motors (nyse: GM - news - people ), Ford Motor (nyse: F - news - people ) and DaimlerChrysler (nyse: DCX - news - people ) are happily rushing into China to take advantage of that country's economic boom and get on the ground floor of its burgeoning auto industry.

But the faster they grow in China, the tougher it is to make a buck back home. Consider what will happen to sales of those big, profitable SUVs in the United States, for instance, if Chinese auto sales, currently at about four million units, hit ten million as expected, driving up oil prices even higher. "China is importing so much crude oil, we'll never see $20 a barrel again," says longtime auto industry analyst Maryann Keller.

Although there are other, more immediate reasons for today's higher gas prices, John H. Lichtblau, chief executive of the Petroleum Industry Research Foundation in New York, agrees that Chinese demand is helping to drive up the price of crude oil worldwide. "Their growth rate in oil consumption is rising very rapidly, and their domestic oil production has leveled off. So the entire increase has to come from abroad. It's already a factor," he says.

Indeed, sales of big SUVs fell in April, a sign that higher gas prices might be hurting automakers' sales of high-profit trucks. And inventories are rising. Automakers had about 100 days' supply of unsold big SUVs in April--about 30 days above normal. And full-size SUVs sat on dealer lots an average of 68 days last month compared with just 50 days a year ago, according to Power Information Network, an affiliate of J.D. Power and Associates.

One month doesn't make a trend, of course, but the executive editor of Kelley Blue Book, a vehicle information guide for consumers, thinks buyers' attitudes are changing. "Many new car buyers are opting for vehicles that are more fuel-efficient than what they originally intended on buying," says Charlie Vogelheim. "We are seeing this manifest in cars with smaller engines, with buyers choosing a two-wheel drive vehicle instead of four-wheel drive and just a smaller class of car altogether." Other surveys show growing consumer awareness of hybrid electric vehicles and clean diesels.

(Ford Chief Executive Bill Ford Jr. acknowledged the growing interest in fuel-efficient cars last week; we have a review of his new hybrid SUV today.)

Still, while rising demand for oil should be a cause of concern long-term, economists say the current spike in U.S. gas prices is just that--a spike caused by unusually tight supply.

Gas prices have risen about twice as much as crude oil prices, says Ronald Gold, who works with Lichtblau at the Petroleum Industry Research Foundation. That's partly due to changes in environmental regulations for gasoline in some states, which have limited imports. Also, like most industries, refineries are trying to keep their own inventories tight to boost efficiency. "When you have unhappy surprises," Gold says, "there's not much of a cushion to absorb that, other than price."

http://www.forbes.com/business/2004/...m_0517gas.html

Astrocloud

Oil Prices Set Another Record, Topping $42
By NEELA BANERJEE

Published: June 2, 2004

EIRUT, June 1 - Oil prices jumped to records on Tuesday, as traders in Europe and the United States reacted to the killings of 22 foreign workers in Khobar, Saudi Arabia, over the weekend.

The Khobar attack and the surge in prices have cast a pall over a meeting of the Organization of the Petroleum Exporting Countries here this week, driving home a sense among the delegates that in the short term at least, there is little they can do to bring prices down.

A week ago, Saudi Arabia, the de facto leading member of OPEC, appeared to have a plan to halt the rise in prices. At an industry conference in Amsterdam, the Saudi oil minister, Ali al-Naimi, announced that his country, the only oil producer with significant spare capacity, would be willing to pump a lot more new oil.

Prices drifted down over the course of the week, though infighting within OPEC about the Saudi proposals prevented a steep decline.

But the attack over the weekend on a residential complex in Khobar, an oil hub on the east coast, has fanned fears that terrorism may begin to crimp oil production in Saudi Arabia and elsewhere in the region, and not just in Iraq. The Saudi delegates and others have come to Beirut without options to counter those fears in the short term, analysts said.

Crude oil for July delivery rose 6.1 percent to close at $42.33 a barrel on the New York Mercantile Exchange Tuesday, the highest price in the 21 years that oil futures have been traded there. The International Petroleum Exchange in London recorded a 5.6 percent jump in its benchmark oil contract.

"Clearly, the psychological impact of this was devastating," said Yasser Elguindi, managing director at Medley Global Advisers, a New York consulting firm. "I sense the wind has been taken out of their Amsterdam sails."

Mr. Elguindi and others who have talked to delegates here, and to the Saudis in particular, said that the weekend attack left people shaken.

Lawrence J. Goldstein, president of the Petroleum Industry Research Foundation in New York, noted that oil prices also jumped after an attack in Yanbu on May 1, when five Western oil engineers and a Saudi security officer were killed and more than 30 people were wounded.

ABB, the Swiss-Swedish engineering company that employed the engineers killed at Yanbu, pulled its staff out of the country a few days later. The latest attack stoked worries in the markets that many more foreigners, especially in the upper echelons of the state oil company, Aramco, might leave Saudi Arabia now, possibly affecting production levels, according to Roger Diwan, managing director at PFC Energy, a Washington consulting firm.

Industry analysts said some expatriates, in a range of businesses including the oil sector, were already leaving, and that fears of supply disruptions have added a "risk premium" of $6 to $10 to the price of every barrel of oil.

"The question is, Will they be able to attack oil facilities? We don't know," Mr. Diwan said. "It's much easier to attack a compound than a facility, and the fact that they haven't attacked one should be reassuring. But the fact is that you will see more violence against civilians, foreigners and nonforeigners, no doubt."

Saudi Arabia is widely expected to go ahead and throw its oil taps wide open in an effort to push prices down. Disagreement within OPEC about proposed increases in production quotas has kept the Saudis' plans from doing much good so far, Mr. Elguindi said, and the discord may be making matters worse by revealing a level of disorganization and fragmentation within the cartel that traders do not want to see right now. A decision on quota levels is expected when delegates meet formally here on Thursday.

Saudi Arabia produced about 8.5 million barrels a day last month, and appears prepared to increase production to about 10 million barrels a day for the next few months, Mr. Goldstein said. But there, too, problems loom. The kind of new oil the Saudis can offer is high in sulfur, but most refineries want low-sulfur crude, which is better for making gasoline, Mr. Goldstein pointed out. He and other analysts said that the new oil might help hold down gasoline and heating oil prices in the fall and winter, but would do little to ease the upward pressure on prices now.

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/06/02/bu...s/02place.html

Asuka{eve}

Next gas is going to cost you your soul. Man why does this have to happen now. A lot of people are saying that this is the end to cheap oil. Is it really? Or is it just another gas thats just going to happen for a few years?

orange monkeyee

Shit people., Gas costs well over a dollar PER LITER in Germany ( and I suppose the rest of Europe as well) . Figure that dollar per liter times roughly 4 liters / gallon ( hey, roughly ) . Our gasoline costs are still half of what Europe has been screwed with the last few decades... Maybe that's why their automobiles are fuel efficient? heh? yeah

Paq

my two seater car, full tank of gas: $25 premium (sadly, it's required)

my two seater car, full tank of gas in 1998 when i bought it (1991 model): $15...premium grade.

14.7 gallon gas tank, but i can never put in more than 12.5 gallons

Ok, so 66% increase in my gas budget in 7 yrs..that's a bit excessive to me...however, an extra $10 per fill up...ok, it's not gonna KILL me, but yeah, i watch where i drive and i may skip lunch, i could lose a couple pounds...

Ok...so, let's take hypothetical..

my friend..excursion driver...she's..well, wants to be rich, so lives the life w/out making the money...anyway, according to caranddriver.com, they have a Fuel-tank capacity/range 44.0 gal/440–484 mi or about 10-12 mpg and that's about what she gets...so for her 40 gallons, she gets about 400-450 miles or about 100 miles more than i get for my 12 gallons...

ok...So, by 1998 gas prices here, she would have been paying about $1.05 per regular gallon of gasoline according to the sign in the abandoned gas station across the street.
So, about $42 per gas tank...pretty expensive for me, really, buuutttt, nothing compared to her $70/tank fillup cost now..

So now, instead of being out 2 weeks worth of groceries, she's out 3.5 weeks worth..that's a good bit of an increase adn enough that she honestly has to judge eating vs driving and obvioulsy, she can't stop driving bc she has to get to work in order to make money to decide to spend between eating and driving....

Seriously, though, to jump from $120/month for gas to almost $210 in a VERY short time..that is the part that seems rediculous

It's the huge increase in such a short amount of time. It would be like germany going from $6/gallon to $10/gallon in the same amount of time.

That is what i think most americans are bitching about. If our gas had been $4 throughout the nineties and went to $5, we wouldn't bitch, but to go from $1.05 to $1.89 in a very short time...not cool and that is what is posing a problem to the average family. heck, going from $1.39/gallon to $1.89/gallon in a year seems excessive...I wish i would get a raise like that every year..call it a cost of living increase or some such....

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Chris

skier

asuka, I want to say that's from machall, but it's subtly different from Ian McConville's stuff.

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miggity99

Biodiesel is the way to go. At my school we're researching how to make biodiesel out of waste (shit). Now there's a renewable resource if I ever saw one.

matthew330

No family should be without a full-sized pickup, they're like cellphones, you don't realize just how much you rely on them untill you own one. And hey, it just feels cool towering above everyone else, take the good with the bad...

cameroncrazy822

I'm from Baltimore and the prices just went down 2 cents! I'm going to invest the savings in penny candy...

Paq

Please don't take this the wrong way or be offended, but from what we've talked about in politics and everything, This is exactly what i'd expect coming from your mouth.....

not that it's bad, but if everyone drove a full size pickup, don't you think that no one would be towering over anyone...except the big rig trucks, then everyone would go buy them and no one wuold tower over anyone anymore...and we'd all be at the gas station pumping in hundreds of dollars of diesel fuel...weekly

And to say everyone needs to drive a full size truck is just totally irresponsible, unless you're a used truck salesman...and even then, it's just kinda...gross.

besides, at 15-22 mpg for some of the bigger trucks....ouch....but that's still better than a lot of SUVs...

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Chris

drewg

Yupp. We (Norwegians) pay about 11 crowns per liter here, which after some rough multiplications is about 6.4 US$ per gallon.

But I don't really have anything to whine about. Norway is making a fortune on the high oil prices