Gay penguins and other homosexual animals - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Mehoni · 02-09-2004, 02:22 AM

Couldn't find this with search here, so feel free to remove it incase it's been posted before.

Quote:

February 7, 2004
Love That Dare Not Squeak Its Name
By DINITIA SMITH

oy and Silo, two chinstrap penguins at the Central Park Zoo in Manhattan, are completely devoted to each other. For nearly six years now, they have been inseparable. They exhibit what in penguin parlance is called "ecstatic behavior": that is, they entwine their necks, they vocalize to each other, they have sex. Silo and Roy are, to anthropomorphize a bit, gay penguins. When offered female companionship, they have adamantly refused it. And the females aren't interested in them, either.

At one time, the two seemed so desperate to incubate an egg together that they put a rock in their nest and sat on it, keeping it warm in the folds of their abdomens, said their chief keeper, Rob Gramzay. Finally, he gave them a fertile egg that needed care to hatch. Things went perfectly. Roy and Silo sat on it for the typical 34 days until a chick, Tango, was born. For the next two and a half months they raised Tango, keeping her warm and feeding her food from their beaks until she could go out into the world on her own. Mr. Gramzay is full of praise for them.

"They did a great job," he said. He was standing inside the glassed-in penguin exhibit, where Roy and Silo had just finished lunch. Penguins usually like a swim after they eat, and Silo was in the water. Roy had finished his dip and was up on the beach.

Roy and Silo are hardly unusual. Milou and Squawk, two young males, are also beginning to exhibit courtship behavior, hanging out with each other, billing and bowing. Before them, the Central Park Zoo had Georgey and Mickey, two female Gentoo penguins who tried to incubate eggs together. And Wendell and Cass, a devoted male African penguin pair, live at the New York Aquarium in Coney Island. Indeed, scientists have found homosexual behavior throughout the animal world.

This growing body of science has been increasingly drawn into charged debates about homosexuality in American society, on subjects from gay marriage to sodomy laws, despite reluctance from experts in the field to extrapolate from animals to humans. Gay groups argue that if homosexual behavior occurs in animals, it is natural, and therefore the rights of homosexuals should be protected. On the other hand, some conservative religious groups have condemned the same practices in the past, calling them "animalistic."

But if homosexuality occurs among animals, does that necessarily mean that it is natural for humans, too? And that raises a familiar question: if homosexuality is not a choice, but a result of natural forces that cannot be controlled, can it be immoral?

The open discussion of homosexual behavior in animals is relatively new. "There has been a certain cultural shyness about admitting it," said Frans de Waal, whose 1997 book, "Bonobo: The Forgotten Ape" (University of California Press), unleashed a torrent of discussion about animal sexuality. Bonobos, apes closely related to humans, are wildly energetic sexually. Studies show that whether observed in the wild or in captivity, nearly all are bisexual, and nearly half their sexual interactions are with the same sex. Female bonobos have been observed to engage in homosexual activity almost hourly.

Before his own book, "American scientists who investigated bonobos never discussed sex at all," said Mr. de Waal, director of the Living Links Center of the Yerkes Primate Center at Emory University in Atlanta. "Or they sometimes would show two females having sex together, and would say, `The females are very affectionate.' "

Then in 1999, Bruce Bagemihl published "Biological Exuberance: Animal Homosexuality and Natural Diversity" (St. Martin's Press), one of the first books of its kind to provide an overview of scholarly studies of same-sex behavior in animals. Mr. Bagemihl said homosexual behavior had been documented in some 450 species. (Homosexuality, he says, refers to any of these behaviors between members of the same sex: long-term bonding, sexual contact, courtship displays or the rearing of young.) Last summer the book was cited by the American Psychiatric Association and other groups in a "friend of the court" brief submitted to the Supreme Court in Lawrence v. Texas, a case challenging a Texas anti-sodomy law. The court struck down the law.

"Sexual Exuberance" was also cited in 2000 by gay rights groups opposed to Ballot Measure 9, a proposed Oregon statute prohibiting teaching about homosexuality or bisexuality in public schools. The measure lost.

In his book Mr. Bagemihl describes homosexual activity in a broad spectrum of animals. He asserts that while same-sex behavior is sometimes found in captivity, it is actually seen more frequently in studies of animals in the wild.

Among birds, for instance, studies show that 10 to 15 percent of female western gulls in some populations in the wild are homosexual. Females perform courtship rituals, like tossing their heads at each other or offering small gifts of food to each other, and they establish nests together. Occasionally they mate with males and produce fertile eggs but then return to their original same-sex partners. Their bonds, too, may persist for years.

Among mammals, male and female bottlenose dolphins frequently engage in homosexual activity, both in captivity and in the wild. Homosexuality is particularly common among young male dolphin calves. One male may protect another that is resting or healing from wounds inflicted by a predator. When one partner dies, the other may search for a new male mate. Researchers have noted that in some cases same-sex behavior is more common for dolphins in captivity.

Male and female rhesus macaques, a type of monkey, also exhibit homosexuality in captivity and in the wild. Males are affectionate to each other, touching, holding and embracing. Females smack their lips at each other and play games like hide-and-seek, peek-a-boo and follow the leader. And both sexes mount members of their own sex.

Paul L. Vasey, a professor of psychology and neuroscience at the University of Lethbridge in Canada, who studies homosexual behavior in Japanese macaques, is editing a new book on homosexual behavior in animals, to be published by Cambridge University Press. This kind of behavior among animals has been observed by scientists as far back as the 1700's, but Mr. Vasey said one reason there had been few books on the topic was that "people don't want to do the research because they don't want to have suspicions raised about their sexuality."

Some scientists say homosexual behavior in animals is not necessarily about sex. Marlene Zuk, a professor of biology at the University of California at Riverside and author of "Sexual Selections: What We Can and Can't Learn About Sex From Animals" (University of California Press, 2002), notes that scientists have speculated that homosexuality may have an evolutionary purpose, ensuring the survival of the species. By not producing their own offspring, homosexuals may help support or nurture their relatives' young. "That is a contribution to the gene pool," she said.

For Janet Mann, a professor of biology and psychology at Georgetown University, who has studied same-sex behavior in dolphin calves, their homosexuality "is about bond formation," she said, "not about being sexual for life."

She said that studies showed that adult male dolphins formed long-term alliances, sometimes in large groups. As adults, they cooperate to entice a single female and keep other males from her. Sometimes they share the female, or they may cooperate to help one male. "Male-male cooperation is extremely important," Ms. Mann said. The homosexual behavior of the young calves "could be practicing" for that later, crucial adult period, she added.

But, scientists say, just because homosexuality is observed in animals doesn't mean that it is only genetically based. "Homosexuality is extraordinarily complex and variable," Mr. Bagemihl said. "We look at animals as pure biology and pure genetics, and they are not." He noted that "the occurrence of same-sex behavior in animals provides support for the nurture side as well." He cited as an example the ruff, a type of Arctic sandpiper. There are four different classes of male ruffs, each differing from the others genetically. The two that differ most from each other are most similar in their homosexual behaviors.

Ms. Zuk said, "You have inclinations that are more or less supported by our genes and in some environmental circumstances get expressed." She used the analogy of right- or left-handedness, thought to be genetically based. "But you can teach naturally left-handed children to use their right hand," she pointed out.

Still, scientists warn about drawing conclusions about humans. "For some people, what animals do is a yardstick of what is and isn't natural," Mr. Vasey said. "They make a leap from saying if it's natural, it's morally and ethically desirable."

But he added: "Infanticide is widespread in the animal kingdom. To jump from that to say it is desirable makes no sense. We shouldn't be using animals to craft moral and social policies for the kinds of human societies we want to live in. Animals don't take care of the elderly. I don't particularly think that should be a platform for closing down nursing homes."

Mr. Bagemihl is also wary of extrapolating. "In Nazi Germany, one very common interpretation of homosexuality was that it was animalistic behavior, subhuman," he said.

What the animal studies do show, Ms. Zuk observed, is that "sexuality is a lot broader term than people want to think."

"You have this idea that the animal kingdom is strict, old-fashioned Roman Catholic," she said, "that they have sex just to procreate."

In bonobos, she noted, "you see expressions of sex outside the period when females are fertile. Suddenly you are beginning to see that sex is not necessarily about reproduction."

"Sexual expression means more than making babies," Ms. Zuk said. "Why are we surprised? People are animals."

LINK

Nisses · 02-09-2004, 04:53 AM

Quote:

We shouldn't be using animals to craft moral and social policies for the kinds of human societies we want to live in.

amen.

Gortexfogg · 02-09-2004, 06:27 AM

Interesting article. Though, it seems that there is more research that needs to be done on the subject. The part about homosexuality having a evolutionary purpose was intriguing as well.

cchris · 02-09-2004, 06:41 AM

Hmm.

Chinstrap penguins.

Animals with advanced bondage skills too.

Confederate · 02-09-2004, 06:59 AM

great now we have gay animal rights activists to start protests

Regziever · 02-09-2004, 07:25 AM

Maybe we are all bisexual by nature and it is a mix of genetics, preference and social standards that determins wheter we swing to hetrosexuality or homosexuality..

Confederate · 02-09-2004, 07:43 AM

God I hope that isn't the truth, I have never or never will be attracted to another man

troit · 02-09-2004, 08:03 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Confederate
God I hope that isn't the truth, I have never or never will be attracted to another man

Neither have I but because of that does it give me the right to condemn those who are... IMO if you do than its just another form of bigotry and/or racism. As all of us should be tolerant to the various customs and religions that exist throughout the world why should we not try to be tolerant toward individuals with different sexual persuasion than your own. I just do not see a difference.

To each their own... If it bothers you that much than "turn and walk away", so to speak.

feelgood · 02-09-2004, 08:57 AM

No wonder my dog's been sniffin' other dogs butt...I was starting to get worried...

Arsenic7 · 02-09-2004, 10:22 AM

I just find it funny when people say an activity is "unnatural." There are animals whos sole form of reproduction is rape...most organisms don't even use sex to reproduce! It's all relativistic and nothing can really ever go against nature.

moonstrucksoul · 02-09-2004, 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Arsenic7
It's all relativistic and nothing can really ever go against nature.

the truth is told

irseg · 02-09-2004, 03:13 PM

I'm all for equal treatment of gays, but this is a stupid argument. Hey we should all piss on fire hydrants, sniff each others' assholes, and hump any object of an approximately correct shape. Dogs do it too! Or better yet, let's eat our newborns just like fish! We should all subordinate ourselves to whatever occurs in nature because it's invarably right and humans are invariably wrong.

mingusfingers · 02-09-2004, 03:21 PM

I think I heard something about that. Can't say I'm impressed.

nanofever · 02-09-2004, 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by irseg
Hey we should all piss on fire hydrants, sniff each others' assholes, and hump any object of an approximately correct shape.

So you are saying that I shouldn't be doing these things already? Boy is my face red, its just that my dog looked like he was having so much fun that I started emulating him and it snowballed from there. *help*

Tophat665 · 02-09-2004, 05:22 PM

Quote:

Shake up the pale-dry
Ginger ale
Tremblin’ like a penguin
When the battery fail

Lord, you must be havin’ her jumpin’ through
A hoopa real fire
With some kleenex wrapped around a
Coat-hang wire

She’s just like a penguin in bondage, boy
-- Frank Zappa

I'm sorry; I'm all for gay rights, but I just can't take gay penguins seriously.

minyn · 02-09-2004, 05:32 PM

wow, an eye opener. Im ok with homosexuality, didnt understand the concept of it being normal or not, but that just added more fuel to a worth while fire.

Plan9Senior · 02-09-2004, 05:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by irseg
I'm all for equal treatment of gays, but this is a stupid argument. Hey we should all piss on fire hydrants, sniff each others' assholes, and hump any object of an approximately correct shape. Dogs do it too! Or better yet, let's eat our newborns just like fish! We should all subordinate ourselves to whatever occurs in nature because it's invarably right and humans are invariably wrong.

Great post

HockeyGuy · 02-09-2004, 05:50 PM

If anyone gets a chance (especialyl those in the UK i suppose) watch the stand up comedy (on DVD) 'Animals'. IT's Ricky Gervais (The Office). Soo funny, and has a big bit on homosexuality in animals.. dont ask...

VitaminH · 02-09-2004, 06:51 PM

Growing up my grandparents had a pig farm. (Still do only my father runs it now...) I used to, and still do when I'm round those parts pitch in now and then. When I was oh, about 10 I'd say I'm pretty sure I saw two male pigs going at it...I remember asking my dad and he just sort of grunted and changed the subject...

It was an, enlightening experience?

KellyC · 02-09-2004, 11:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Tophat665
I'm sorry; I'm all for gay rights, but I just can't take gay penguins seriously.

Same here, the idea is hard to believe. I laugh so hard when I read the title.

bermuDa · 02-10-2004, 12:05 AM

the real political question here... is their union legal and do they qualify for tax cuts?

hannukah harry · 02-10-2004, 01:21 AM

so does this mean all dogs don't go to heaven? gay dogs burn in hell?

02-09-2004, 06:41 AM	#4 (permalink)
cchris Junkie Location: Sydney	Hmm. Chinstrap penguins. Animals with advanced bondage skills too. __________________ There's a fine line between participation and mockery

02-09-2004, 07:25 AM	#6 (permalink)
Regziever Sexy eh? Location: Sweden	Maybe we are all bisexual by nature and it is a mix of genetics, preference and social standards that determins wheter we swing to hetrosexuality or homosexuality.. __________________ Life is shit, Death is even worse, So what's the point of killing yourself? /Ignatius Camryn Paladine

02-09-2004, 08:57 AM	#9 (permalink)
feelgood Free Mars! Location: I dunno, there's white people around me saying "eh" all the time	No wonder my dog's been sniffin' other dogs butt...I was starting to get worried... __________________ Looking out the window, that's an act of war. Staring at my shoes, that's an act of war. Committing an act of war? Oh you better believe that's an act of war

02-09-2004, 10:22 AM	#10 (permalink)
Arsenic7 Insane Location: Corvallis, OR.	I just find it funny when people say an activity is "unnatural." There are animals whos sole form of reproduction is rape...most organisms don't even use sex to reproduce! It's all relativistic and nothing can really ever go against nature. __________________ This is no sig.

02-09-2004, 03:21 PM	#13 (permalink)
mingusfingers Psycho Location: uhhhh	I think I heard something about that. Can't say I'm impressed. __________________ Still Looking

02-09-2004, 06:27 AM	#3 (permalink)
Gortexfogg I and I Location: Stillwater, OK	Interesting article. Though, it seems that there is more research that needs to be done on the subject. The part about homosexuality having a evolutionary purpose was intriguing as well.

02-09-2004, 06:59 AM	#5 (permalink)
Confederate Death Leprechaun Location: College Station, TX	great now we have gay animal rights activists to start protests

02-09-2004, 07:43 AM	#7 (permalink)
Confederate Death Leprechaun Location: College Station, TX	God I hope that isn't the truth, I have never or never will be attracted to another man

02-09-2004, 03:13 PM	#12 (permalink)
irseg Junkie Location: Florida	I'm all for equal treatment of gays, but this is a stupid argument. Hey we should all piss on fire hydrants, sniff each others' assholes, and hump any object of an approximately correct shape. Dogs do it too! Or better yet, let's eat our newborns just like fish! We should all subordinate ourselves to whatever occurs in nature because it's invarably right and humans are invariably wrong.

02-09-2004, 05:32 PM	#16 (permalink)
minyn young and in bloom Location: under the bodhi tree.... bling	wow, an eye opener. Im ok with homosexuality, didnt understand the concept of it being normal or not, but that just added more fuel to a worth while fire. __________________ "Woke up this morning with a blue moon in my eye" ~A3 "woke up this morning" "Don't compromise yourself, you're all you've got." -Janis Joplin

02-09-2004, 05:50 PM	#18 (permalink)
HockeyGuy Psycho Location: London, England	If anyone gets a chance (especialyl those in the UK i suppose) watch the stand up comedy (on DVD) 'Animals'. IT's Ricky Gervais (The Office). Soo funny, and has a big bit on homosexuality in animals.. dont ask...

02-09-2004, 06:51 PM	#19 (permalink)
VitaminH An embarrassment to myself and those around me... Location: Pants	Growing up my grandparents had a pig farm. (Still do only my father runs it now...) I used to, and still do when I'm round those parts pitch in now and then. When I was oh, about 10 I'd say I'm pretty sure I saw two male pigs going at it...I remember asking my dad and he just sort of grunted and changed the subject... It was an, enlightening experience? __________________ "Glory is fleeting, but obscurity is forever." - Napoleon Bonaparte

02-10-2004, 12:05 AM	#21 (permalink)
bermuDa don't ignore this--> Location: CA	the real political question here... is their union legal and do they qualify for tax cuts? __________________ I am the very model of a moderator gentleman.

02-10-2004, 01:21 AM	#22 (permalink)
hannukah harry Junkie	so does this mean all dogs don't go to heaven? gay dogs burn in hell? __________________ shabbat shalom, mother fucker! - the hebrew hammer