Purchasing by Reputation - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

G_Whiz · 01-23-2004, 03:51 PM

Recently, the following article was published in the San Francisco Chronicle. It specifically refers to people who are buying foreign brand cars based solely on the perception that they are better built.

NOTE: I did not put this into Tilted Motors because of the question below related to other purchases. I would like to see a broader response.

Link Here

Quote:

Bay Area drivers like foreign cars
American makers are tops in truck sales
Todd Wallack, Chronicle Staff Writer
Tuesday, January 20, 2004
©2004 San Francisco Chronicle | Feedback | FAQ

URL: sfgate.com/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2004/01/20/BUGHR4D36M1.DTL

When Ange Strom-Weber, a 22-year-old college student from Alameda, was shopping for cars recently, she mulled over models from Honda, Toyota and Volkswagen. But she didn't test drive any Fords, Chevys or other U.S. brands. "I would never, ever consider buying an American car because they are not built well,'' said Strom-Weber, who settled on a 2004 Honda Civic last month.

She isn't alone. Bay Area residents continue to flock to imports, despite U.S. automakers' claims that they have narrowed or erased any differences in quality.

Seven of the 10 best-selling passenger cars in the Bay Area last year were made by foreign automakers, two more than on the national list, according to R. L. Polk & Co., which tabulated car registrations through November 2003.

Four of the 10 best-selling light trucks in the region were made by Japanese manufacturers. By contrast, the national list is completely made up of trucks from the traditional Big Three domestic automakers.

"The Asian imports own California,'' said Peter Welch, president of the California Motor Car Dealers Association, an industry association. "They've done a better job of marketing. And they have designed vehicles that have been more appealing."

To be sure, an import isn't what it used to be 20 years ago. Many foreign- branded cars and trucks are actually made in the United States. Both the Toyota Corolla and Tacoma, among the best sellers in the Bay Area, are built at the New United Motor Manufacturing (Nummi) plant in Fremont. Conversely, Chrysler was purchased by a German corporation, Daimler-Benz AG, six years ago to form DaimlerChrysler.

Nevertheless, foreign brands generally sell better in the Bay Area than in the country as a whole.

For instance, Chevrolet has 3 of 10 best-selling cars nationwide: the Cavalier, Impala and Malibu. But none of them cracked the top 10 in the Bay Area.

"Imports don't have nearly the hold on the Midwest that they do on the coasts,'' said Gordon Walton, general manager of Parker-Robb Chevrolet Buick in Walnut Creek. "The West Coast is much more open-minded."

Walton also said that some U.S. cars fare poorly because people believe they are not constructed as well as Asian cars, despite major improvements over the years.

In one survey of new car owners, J.D. Power & Associates found that new U. S. cars are now on par with European makes in quality and have narrowed the gap with Japanese models. A separate survey of car owners after three years found that General Motors ranked above average in quality among all automakers, and domestic automakers as a whole surpassed their European counterparts, but they still trailed the Japanese.

But many buyers still believe there is a huge difference based on just the name. On the used-car market, for instance, a 2000 Toyota Corolla sells for about $2,000 more than a Chevrolet Prizm, even though both cars were produced at the Nummi plant, a Toyota-General Motors joint venture, and are nearly identical.

"A lot of it has to do with perception," Walton said.

Honda and Toyota have an especially strong reputation among car buyers. The Honda Accord is the top-selling car locally, and the Honda Civic is No. 3, according to Polk, which tracked vehicle registrations for the first 11 months of 2003. Data for the full year are not available yet.

"It's really a Honda market,'' said Conley Byrnes, general manager of Honda of Oakland.

Toyota was close behind, however. The Toyota Corolla ranked No. 2 and the Camry ranked No. 4 in the Bay Area. All of those cars are also among the most popular nationwide. But unlike the national top 10 list, the Bay Area roster of best-selling cars boasts the Ford Mustang, a sports car, and the BMW 325, reflecting the region's affluence.

Honda and Toyota also sell some of the most popular light trucks locally. Honda makes the CR-V, a smaller sport utility vehicle, and the Odyssey minivan. Toyota produces the Tacoma pickup and the Sienna minivan.

Overall, Bay Area residents buy more cars than trucks, possibly because of the region's scarcity of parking spaces and interest in fuel-efficient cars. But the gap is shrinking. Last year, light trucks, including sport utility vehicles and minivans, accounted for 46 percent of the new vehicles registered in the Bay Area, up from 45 percent in 2002, reflecting a nationwide trend.

Californians were on a pace to buy more light trucks than cars for the first time last year, the Polk data suggested.

Trucks overtook cars several years ago in many other states. Nationwide, light trucks accounted for 59 percent of sales in 2003, up from 56 percent a year earlier, according to Ward's Automotive.

Much of the increase has come from so-called crossover vehicles, a cross between a car and sport utility vehicle or minivan, including the Subaru Forester and Toyota RAV4. The cars promise some of the height and roominess of SUVs, while offering a smoother ride and better fuel efficiency than traditional trucks. The downside is that they generally aren't designed to be driven off-road or carry heavy cargo.

Moreover, the lines between the two segments have become increasingly blurred, skewing the growth figures for light trucks. The carlike PT Cruiser, for instance, is classified as a light truck because its seats fold down to resemble a truck bed. And Subaru has reportedly decided to make minor tweaks to its Outback station wagon next year so that it will qualify as a light truck as well, escaping some of the tougher fuel economy and air pollution standards that apply to cars.

"The category has gotten very broad,'' said Walton. "What was a station wagon is now considered a truck."

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
CHART (1):
Best-selling cars -- Bay Area*

1. Honda Accord

2. Toyota Corolla

3. Honda Civic

4. Toyota Camry

5. Ford Taurus

6. Ford Focus

7. Volkswagen Jetta

8. Nissan Altima

9. Ford Mustang

10. BMW 325

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
CHART (2):
Best-selling light trucks -- Bay Area*

1. Ford F Series

2. Chevrolet Silverado

3. Toyota Tacoma

4. Ford Explorer

5. Honda Odyssey

6. Toyota Sienna

7. Honda CR-V

8. Dodge Ram

9. Chevrolet Tahoe

10. Dodge Caravan

* January-November 2003

Source: R.L. Polk & Co.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
CHART (3):
Best-selling cars -- U.S.*

1. Toyota Camry

2. Honda Accord

3. Ford Taurus

4. Honda Civic

5. Toyota Corolla

6. Chevrolet Impala

7. Chevrolet Cavalier

8. Ford Focus

9. Nissan Altima

10. Chevrolet Malibu

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
CHART (4):
Best-selling light trucks -- U.S.*

1. Ford F Series

2. Chevrolet Silverado

3. Dodge Ram pickup

4. Ford Explorer

5. Chevrolet Trailblazer

6. Dodge Caravan

7. Ford Ranger

8. Jeep Grand Cherokee

9. Chevrolet Tahoe

10. GMC Sierra

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
CHART (5):
Best-selling cars -- California**

1. Toyota Camry

2. Honda Accord

3. Toyota Corolla

4. Honda Civic

5. Ford Focus

6. Nissan Altima

7. Ford Taurus

8. Ford Mustang

9. Volkswagen Jetta

10. Mercedes-Benz C

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
CHART (6):
Best-selling light trucks -- California**

1. Ford F Series

2. Chevrolet Silverado

3. Toyota Tacoma

4. Ford Explorer

5. Dodge Ram (RMS)

6. Ford Expedition

7. Chevrolet Tahoe

8. Toyota USA Tundra

9. Ford Ranger

10. Honda Odyssey

Source: Ward's Communications

*2003

** 2003, January-November

Source: R.L. Polk & Co.

E-mail Todd Wallack at twallack@sfchronicle.com.

©2004 San Francisco Chronicle | Feedback | FAQ

Page B - 1

So, the question is, do you buy by reputation or through research?

I own a Honda Hybrid. When I bought it the only hybrids were from Honda or Toyota. I bought based on research, although the Hondas do have a good rep. My wife owns a Saturn wagon because she has had good experiences with Saturns before. So we kind of go both ways.

I don't think that this issue is limited to car purchases. Do you see it happening with other purchases?

sixate · 01-23-2004, 04:03 PM

Well, I'm also a Honda owner, and I'll never even consider a Ford, GM, or Chrysler vehicle. I bought a brand new Chevy truck back in 97, and had nothing but troubles from day one. Many things broke within a week. After a week the passenger door rubbed the front fender every time it was opened. The list could go on and on with the problems that I've had. My truck was in the shop every week for the first 4 months I owned it. I've known others who have bought Ford and Chrysler, and most of them have had similar problems. After that truck I bought Jeep then a Civic si. Even my Jeep gave me problems, and it was brutal on gas. I have never had one single problem with the Civic. Change the oil, new brakes, and that's it. I know my car will never give me problems, and that's why people buy foreign.

The funny thing is my Civic was built right here in Ohio. It is American made. It's just foreign owned. I wonder what the difference is. My next vehicle will be another foreign car. The quality is just better, and they last longer. It's a no brainer for me.

So I guess my decision has been made by research/personal experiences and reputation.

G_Whiz · 01-23-2004, 04:47 PM

What I found interesting was the section in the article that indicates that US brand cars are comparable to European imports and closing in on the Japanese imports. But people aren't really considering that.

The other thing, as you noted, is that most of these "Japanese" cars are built in the US. So does that make it an "American" car even though the profits go to a Japanese company.

sixate · 01-23-2004, 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by G_Whiz
The other thing, as you noted, is that most of these "Japanese" cars are built in the US. So does that make it an "American" car even though the profits go to a Japanese company.

Yeah, I think they are just as American as the cars made by companies owned by Americans. They employ American's, and get many products to make the cars by other American manufacturers. It's not like the cars are bulit in Japan then shipped over here.

Nazggul · 01-23-2004, 05:05 PM

I have to admit, I have always had the impression that American made cars are not as good. This was from direct experience when I was young, in the 80's, and had been reinforced over time when I was renting cars often while traveling for business.

The key for me is really style. US manufacturers in the 80's and most of the 90's did not concern themselves with style, they focused on affordability, practicality, etc. European and Japanese auto makers grabbed market share because they realized that the car became more than a comodity, a simple form of transportation, it was (and is) part of a personality, an extension of image so to speak. US manufacturers were very slow on the uptake here. Another possibly large contributing factor was Unions and the work virtual removal of quality work ethic that came with them. (That's another can of worms altogether though)

I think the US manufacturers are getting it and they have made up some ground. Some of the new concept cars and even the new models this year have caught my eye at the recent auto show in Detroit.

Currently I drive a Porsche 911 Carrera Cabriolet.

Derwood · 01-23-2004, 05:15 PM

I've owned 3 cars in my life: A Honda CRX, a Chevy Cavalier, and (now) a Honda CRV. The Honda's were awesome, the Cavalier a steaming pile of shit.

There is an interesting distinction, though, between the sedan/sports car/SUV buyer mentality vs. the pickup truck/motorcycle buyer mentality. Most people who own pickup trucks wouldn't touch a foreign made truck. Chevy, Dodge, Ford, GMC...these are the standards. Then there are the hardcored Harley drivers who cringe every time they see a Honda or Yamaha motorcycle.

Halx · 01-23-2004, 05:33 PM

My first car was a honda accord, I loved it and it had a great reputation, so I bought another one. I'm a couple months away, now, from owning an Acura, which is the same as Honda. I purchase from experience and reputation.

Kaos · 01-23-2004, 06:42 PM

I was born into a Chrysler family (MY grandfather, my father and 3 uncles worked there), I worked at Chryslers, and I will only buy Chrysler.

I'm not deluded in the fact I do know Chrysler have made some shoddy vehicles, but I know they have made some of the best vehicles, and I have never been dissatisfied with any car of theirs I have bought or driven.

rat · 01-23-2004, 06:42 PM

my mom had a 90 accord, and it lasted a long time, but when things started going wrong, EVERYTHING went wrong at once--especially in the engine.

I in turn bought a 91 accord, and the thing was great. i loved the car--until motor mounts started breaking repeatedly, i had suspension problems, bent my frame and other fun shit went down. However, I was able to drive it for over 4000 miles with only a single quart of oil in it (woohoo for not having money to pay for more than gas!) I beat that car to hell, and it took it.

I've also driven a 91 Buick LeSabre and currently drive a 94 Mercury Sable LS. Both those cars tie for my favorite--the ride was/is amazing in both and the buick had a nice V8 in it. They're cheaper to fix when things go wrong too.

I guess in my mind, things are tied. The foreign cars took more abuse, but subsequently cost me a shitload when things went wrong. The domestics were nice, I loved the ride, but the size of them could be a problem as well as the handling (not that a Buick LeSabre is a performance car

)

aintyoboyfriend · 01-23-2004, 06:44 PM

A lot of this also is paralled in clothing.

some people will buy a brand simply for the name or reputation.

also, food. I know the french's mustard isn't better than Safeway brand, but I just have to pay .20 cents more to have it.

sailor · 01-23-2004, 07:12 PM

I own a '95 Ford Explorer with 105,000 miles on it, and havent had the first problem with it. I plan to drive it into the ground. Im sure part of why it is still here without problems is that both my dad (who technically owns the car, its basically a hand-me-down) and I are pretty anal about care--everything is replaced or fixed when it needs to be before it escalates into something that can damage the car.

1337haxor · 01-23-2004, 07:32 PM

Even thought foreign cars are made in the US, maybe its just how some foreign companies are structured. The way it is structured may end up at how the vehicle is designed in the first place. I've riden in many cars and usually foreign cars look and feel better designed. Since the early 90's my family has only bought foreign cars (mostly japanese). My car was made in Japan and I love it! No real problems that resulted from bad design or quality. All my friends have american cars and they always seem to have problems that seem to stem from either quality or design.

-Robert

skier · 01-23-2004, 10:08 PM

I own a '93 Chevrolet Suburban, with 400,000 kilometres on it. I love the truck, it's been dependable from day one and now going on it's 11th year it is still going strong hauling for the farm. Am I lucky? Maybe, but it's the reason we bought an '02 burban. Chevy hasn't let me down yet so i have no reason to change brands.

Rodney · 01-23-2004, 10:17 PM

Yeah, well, I'm a small car kinda guy, and my first car was a Chevy Vega. Anybody old enough to remember them? Suffice it to say, I've been going Japanese ever since.

I do live in the Bay Area, and Accords and Hondas are common as heck, and the only time you see a lot of large American passenger cars in one place (SUVs are different) is at senior citizen's centers and churches. We've got nearly 170K on a 12 year-old-Acura that's chugging along just fine and drives great, and a 13-year-old Civic that may well have another 10 years in it.

Yes, I buy on reputation. Honda had a good rep for quality and reliability. I originally bought on that basis, and the reputation was justified, so there I stayed. It takes a while to build a rep, or live down a bad one. If American cars suddenly equalled the Japanese today, it'd probably take five years for the sales to reflect it. It takes a while to live down a bad rep.

denim · 01-24-2004, 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by G_Whiz
So, the question is, do you buy by reputation or through research?

I own a Honda Hybrid.

Which one, the Insight or the Civic?

I shopped by both. I used to only consider domestic cars. That was until I finished with my second Escort. I had a 1980 Mercury Zephr, a 1988 Ford Escort GT (new), and a 1986 Ford Escort Wagon.

When I managed to chivvey the 86'd wagon to the (Ford) shop the last time, I asked them what they had on the lot to replace it. He had a number of vehicles of course, but the one I ended up buying was a stripped-down Acura (1993 Integra RS). I found this to be an okay car, with certain obvious issues.

When I started the research for replacing the Integra, I first wanted to just get a newer Integra. But I found I didn't fit comfortably in recent ones. I am rather large.

So I looked. I looked at Acura, Honda, Toyota, VW (very seriously), Lexus (briefly), Mazda (briefly), Infinity, GM (under duress), and a little at the Ford Focus. What it came down to was that I wanted a car for no more than a certain price and no less than a certain price, which would be fun to drive and have more amenities than the Integra RS.

That shouldn't be hard, as that Integra had only one major feature: a/c, kinda required where I bought it (Plano TX). Other than that, it had power-assisted brakes and steering, rear defrost and wiper. That's all. Cranked windows. It was Acura's bottom-end car in 1993.

Service was part of it. Toyota was too busy to help me. GM's Saturn Ion was perhaps not the place to test them for sanity. Ford, I'd already had enough of. Lexus repelled me from the prices on their web site for used cars. Infinity(?) had too low MPG.

Ended up with the Acura RSX 'cause it was effectively the current Integra coupe, with the TSX being the current Integra sedan but in its first model year and a bit pricey for me.

I wanted to buy the Civic Hybrid, but I've got questions about the technology which no one has been able to answer to my satisfaction, so I went with tradition.

laconic1 · 01-24-2004, 01:14 PM

It is interesting how reputation continues to hurt American brands. I think the American brands, especially GM have made great strides, Cavaliers and trucks/SUVs aside. Unfortunately the worst product being put out by the American brands happens to be the ones they are selling the most of which continues to hurt their name.
I personally drive a '91 Chevy Corsica with 197,000 miles. It has needed some work, but nothing unreasonable for it's age, and it is cheap to fix when things go wrong.

tinfoil · 01-24-2004, 01:15 PM

Ok, so I have always owned domestic... and I have always regretted it.

I love my current car (Grand Prix GTP) but it has been in the shop so much that I am quite certain I am putting my mechanic's kids through school. My previous cars (both GM) were much the same. Everyone I know with Japanese cars have far fewer problems, so I am seriously considering it when I get a new one.

That being said, my wife's tempo has been an amazing car. I have spent less on it in 5 years than I spent on my car last month.

While we're on the reputation topic, I do buy other stuff by reputation. Did I need to buy Cisco kit at work for 50-ish machines? No way, but it's got a good name. Same with my servers.

Brands that are big names are big for a reason. They wouldn't have gotten big if they produced shit.

Plan9Senior · 01-24-2004, 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sixate
Yeah, I think they are just as American as the cars made by companies owned by Americans. They employ American's, and get many products to make the cars by other American manufacturers. It's not like the cars are bulit in Japan then shipped over here.

Are you being serious? You consider your Honda an American product just because the wherehouse is located in America? Wow hehe....

lordjeebus · 01-24-2004, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Plan9
Are you being serious? You consider your Honda an American product just because the wherehouse is located in America? Wow hehe....

I believe that the American Honda company operates factories in the US, where cars and motorcycles are made with American labor and perhaps even American parts. It's not just a warehouse, although it is true that some of the money you spend on a Honda is going to end up in Japan.

Peryn · 01-24-2004, 02:29 PM

I've got nothing against American cars. There are as many import POS's driving around as "american" ones. But most people get an "american" dud, and go on and on about how the company sucks and they'll never buy from them again. They get an "import" dud and suddenly its a lemon. They just got a bad car, and will gladly go back to them.

Me, and my family, have had great cars...both domestic and imported. Worst american we had was a Dodge Grand Caravan (1990). While the car fell apart around us, the engine, suspension and everything else was bulletproof. Smoothest shifting transmission i've ever felt. Got rid of itt at 200k miles. Jeeps at 253k, Blazer at 185k. Just rock solid cars. Grandfathers always bought toyota and had nothing but good times with them. Brother drives and loved his Mazda. Only difference i see between them, as far as build quality, is whos name is on it. They all hold up really well.

Recently we did buy a car. Ended up buying a Mazda van. Not because of build quality, reliability or anything else. Chevy would have been as good as Acura as far as we were concerned, but Mazda was the only van that had what we wanted, and did it for much cheaper than anyone else could have. We looked up reviews on a car by car basis and did research. I think its rediculous to assume one car is better than another just because of who got to stick their name on it.

stingc · 01-24-2004, 03:21 PM

I've never caught on to the love for japanese cars. The ones I've driven felt cheap - junky interior, no styling, and poor driving feel. I wouldn't care how long it lasted because I'd get too bored to keep it around.

I don't see this as a reason to condemn all japanese cars though. I realize I haven't driven every single type (I've driven very few actually), so I'd still consider certain models in the future.

I really have no opinion of american cars, since the only ones I've driven are corvettes (which I think are great).

I choose cars by seeing if I like driving then, and then checking if the reliability is acceptable - not the other way around. So far my favorite sedans are german.

Tempboy · 01-24-2004, 03:24 PM

Even up to last year I've had problems with domestic brand-vehicles. My family bought an entry-level Toyota Sienna last year, and our house was broken into, and they stole all our things, including our van.

The insurance company compensated us with a minvan rental (I don't remember what it was, I think it was a Ford or a Chevy) until we could get another Sienna.
You could feel and see the difference in quality.

The most obvious difference was the sound. The engine roared like an airplane in the rental, but you could barely hear the engine at all in the Sienna.

Boo · 01-24-2004, 04:53 PM

I buy what works, based on my experiences and others that I trust.

I refuse to buy a car or minivan. They have never been up to the quality or resale of a truck or SUV. I currently have 2 Fords (Expedition and Super-Duty) and a Toyota (Tacoma) and love them all.

I buy John Deere power equipment because I can get parts and service second to none.

I have a Yamaha snowblower because it is the BEST available. I won't own one of their ATV's. I want a Yamaha generator in the near future.

I ride a Polaris ATV because of its ride and power. My son rides a Honda because of its stability and reliability.

I buy Sony, JBL, and Phillips electronics. I won't own another Hitachi.... EVER!

I buy off the shelf clothes for daily wear but go for name brand (Columbia) for fishing and other outdoor activities where cold gets old.

BTW, IMO, I won't buy the "hot thing" from California or anywhere else that claims to be cutting edge because I believe fads get started too easily.

denim · 01-25-2004, 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by lordjeebus
I believe that the American Honda company operates factories in the US, where cars and motorcycles are made with American labor and perhaps even American parts.

Sure, some models are like that. OTOH, my Acura RSX was built in Japan and shipped over here. Other Acuras are built over here.

However, if you build to Japanese specs, you should get Japanese quality. I've heard the same thing about VWs. The ones built in Germany are good, but the ones built in Mexico... uh... well... aren't as good.

G_Whiz · 01-25-2004, 07:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by denim
Which one, the Insight or the Civic?

I wanted to buy the Civic Hybrid, but I've got questions about the technology which no one has been able to answer to my satisfaction, so I went with tradition.

denim -

I bought the Civic. I absolute love it. I've had it for about 10 months and it is pretty much everything that was promised. It also is giving me what I was looking for.

It's still probably too soon to judge it over the long haul, but Honda has had the Insight on the road for several years. So the technology has a track record. I'm not sure what your questions were, but I had several myself.

It's interesting that most of the American manufacturers are bringing out hybrids in the next year or so. I wonder who's technology they're using and whether reputation will impact their sales.

Slims · 01-25-2004, 09:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by G_Whiz
What I found interesting was the section in the article that indicates that US brand cars are comparable to European imports and closing in on the Japanese imports. But people aren't really considering that.

The other thing, as you noted, is that most of these "Japanese" cars are built in the US. So does that make it an "American" car even though the profits go to a Japanese company.

Closing in, yes, but they haven't caught up yet.

01-23-2004, 04:47 PM	#3 (permalink)
G_Whiz Junkie Location: Northern California	What I found interesting was the section in the article that indicates that US brand cars are comparable to European imports and closing in on the Japanese imports. But people aren't really considering that. The other thing, as you noted, is that most of these "Japanese" cars are built in the US. So does that make it an "American" car even though the profits go to a Japanese company. __________________ If love is blind, why is lingerie so popular?

01-23-2004, 05:05 PM	#5 (permalink)
Nazggul Psycho Location: San Francisco	I have to admit, I have always had the impression that American made cars are not as good. This was from direct experience when I was young, in the 80's, and had been reinforced over time when I was renting cars often while traveling for business. The key for me is really style. US manufacturers in the 80's and most of the 90's did not concern themselves with style, they focused on affordability, practicality, etc. European and Japanese auto makers grabbed market share because they realized that the car became more than a comodity, a simple form of transportation, it was (and is) part of a personality, an extension of image so to speak. US manufacturers were very slow on the uptake here. Another possibly large contributing factor was Unions and the work virtual removal of quality work ethic that came with them. (That's another can of worms altogether though) I think the US manufacturers are getting it and they have made up some ground. Some of the new concept cars and even the new models this year have caught my eye at the recent auto show in Detroit. Currently I drive a Porsche 911 Carrera Cabriolet. __________________ "If something has to give then it always will." -- Editors

01-23-2004, 05:15 PM	#6 (permalink)
Derwood Who You Crappin? Location: Everywhere and Nowhere	I've owned 3 cars in my life: A Honda CRX, a Chevy Cavalier, and (now) a Honda CRV. The Honda's were awesome, the Cavalier a steaming pile of shit. There is an interesting distinction, though, between the sedan/sports car/SUV buyer mentality vs. the pickup truck/motorcycle buyer mentality. Most people who own pickup trucks wouldn't touch a foreign made truck. Chevy, Dodge, Ford, GMC...these are the standards. Then there are the hardcored Harley drivers who cringe every time they see a Honda or Yamaha motorcycle. __________________ "You can't shoot a country until it becomes a democracy." - Willravel

01-23-2004, 05:33 PM	#7 (permalink)
Halx Please touch this. Owner/Admin Location: Manhattan	My first car was a honda accord, I loved it and it had a great reputation, so I bought another one. I'm a couple months away, now, from owning an Acura, which is the same as Honda. I purchase from experience and reputation. __________________ You have found this post informative. -The Administrator [Don't Feed The Animals]

01-23-2004, 07:12 PM	#11 (permalink)
sailor beauty in the breakdown Location: Chapel Hill, NC	I own a '95 Ford Explorer with 105,000 miles on it, and havent had the first problem with it. I plan to drive it into the ground. Im sure part of why it is still here without problems is that both my dad (who technically owns the car, its basically a hand-me-down) and I are pretty anal about care--everything is replaced or fixed when it needs to be before it escalates into something that can damage the car. __________________ "Good people do not need laws to tell them to act responsibly, while bad people will find a way around the laws." --Plato

01-23-2004, 04:03 PM	#2 (permalink)
sixate Registered User Location: Somewhere in Ohio	Well, I'm also a Honda owner, and I'll never even consider a Ford, GM, or Chrysler vehicle. I bought a brand new Chevy truck back in 97, and had nothing but troubles from day one. Many things broke within a week. After a week the passenger door rubbed the front fender every time it was opened. The list could go on and on with the problems that I've had. My truck was in the shop every week for the first 4 months I owned it. I've known others who have bought Ford and Chrysler, and most of them have had similar problems. After that truck I bought Jeep then a Civic si. Even my Jeep gave me problems, and it was brutal on gas. I have never had one single problem with the Civic. Change the oil, new brakes, and that's it. I know my car will never give me problems, and that's why people buy foreign. The funny thing is my Civic was built right here in Ohio. It is American made. It's just foreign owned. I wonder what the difference is. My next vehicle will be another foreign car. The quality is just better, and they last longer. It's a no brainer for me. So I guess my decision has been made by research/personal experiences and reputation.

01-23-2004, 06:42 PM	#8 (permalink)
Kaos Ssssssssss Location: Ontario	I was born into a Chrysler family (MY grandfather, my father and 3 uncles worked there), I worked at Chryslers, and I will only buy Chrysler. I'm not deluded in the fact I do know Chrysler have made some shoddy vehicles, but I know they have made some of the best vehicles, and I have never been dissatisfied with any car of theirs I have bought or driven.

01-23-2004, 06:44 PM	#10 (permalink)
aintyoboyfriend Insane Location: Arlington, VA	A lot of this also is paralled in clothing. some people will buy a brand simply for the name or reputation. also, food. I know the french's mustard isn't better than Safeway brand, but I just have to pay .20 cents more to have it.

01-23-2004, 07:32 PM	#12 (permalink)
1337haxor Insane Location: PA	Even thought foreign cars are made in the US, maybe its just how some foreign companies are structured. The way it is structured may end up at how the vehicle is designed in the first place. I've riden in many cars and usually foreign cars look and feel better designed. Since the early 90's my family has only bought foreign cars (mostly japanese). My car was made in Japan and I love it! No real problems that resulted from bad design or quality. All my friends have american cars and they always seem to have problems that seem to stem from either quality or design. -Robert

01-23-2004, 10:08 PM	#13 (permalink)
skier Rawr! Location: Edmontania	I own a '93 Chevrolet Suburban, with 400,000 kilometres on it. I love the truck, it's been dependable from day one and now going on it's 11th year it is still going strong hauling for the farm. Am I lucky? Maybe, but it's the reason we bought an '02 burban. Chevy hasn't let me down yet so i have no reason to change brands. __________________ "Asking a bomb squad if an old bomb is still "real" is not the best thing to do if you want to save it." - denim

01-23-2004, 10:17 PM	#14 (permalink)
Rodney Observant Ruminant Location: Rich Wannabe Hippie Town	Yeah, well, I'm a small car kinda guy, and my first car was a Chevy Vega. Anybody old enough to remember them? Suffice it to say, I've been going Japanese ever since. I do live in the Bay Area, and Accords and Hondas are common as heck, and the only time you see a lot of large American passenger cars in one place (SUVs are different) is at senior citizen's centers and churches. We've got nearly 170K on a 12 year-old-Acura that's chugging along just fine and drives great, and a 13-year-old Civic that may well have another 10 years in it. Yes, I buy on reputation. Honda had a good rep for quality and reliability. I originally bought on that basis, and the reputation was justified, so there I stayed. It takes a while to build a rep, or live down a bad one. If American cars suddenly equalled the Japanese today, it'd probably take five years for the sales to reflect it. It takes a while to live down a bad rep.

01-24-2004, 01:14 PM	#16 (permalink)
laconic1 Junkie	It is interesting how reputation continues to hurt American brands. I think the American brands, especially GM have made great strides, Cavaliers and trucks/SUVs aside. Unfortunately the worst product being put out by the American brands happens to be the ones they are selling the most of which continues to hurt their name. I personally drive a '91 Chevy Corsica with 197,000 miles. It has needed some work, but nothing unreasonable for it's age, and it is cheap to fix when things go wrong.

01-24-2004, 01:15 PM	#17 (permalink)
tinfoil Fucking Hostile Location: Springford, ON, Canada	Ok, so I have always owned domestic... and I have always regretted it. I love my current car (Grand Prix GTP) but it has been in the shop so much that I am quite certain I am putting my mechanic's kids through school. My previous cars (both GM) were much the same. Everyone I know with Japanese cars have far fewer problems, so I am seriously considering it when I get a new one. That being said, my wife's tempo has been an amazing car. I have spent less on it in 5 years than I spent on my car last month. While we're on the reputation topic, I do buy other stuff by reputation. Did I need to buy Cisco kit at work for 50-ish machines? No way, but it's got a good name. Same with my servers. Brands that are big names are big for a reason. They wouldn't have gotten big if they produced shit. __________________ Get off your fuckin cross. We need the fuckin space to nail the next fool martyr.

01-24-2004, 02:29 PM	#20 (permalink)
Peryn Junkie Location: San Diego, CA.	I've got nothing against American cars. There are as many import POS's driving around as "american" ones. But most people get an "american" dud, and go on and on about how the company sucks and they'll never buy from them again. They get an "import" dud and suddenly its a lemon. They just got a bad car, and will gladly go back to them. Me, and my family, have had great cars...both domestic and imported. Worst american we had was a Dodge Grand Caravan (1990). While the car fell apart around us, the engine, suspension and everything else was bulletproof. Smoothest shifting transmission i've ever felt. Got rid of itt at 200k miles. Jeeps at 253k, Blazer at 185k. Just rock solid cars. Grandfathers always bought toyota and had nothing but good times with them. Brother drives and loved his Mazda. Only difference i see between them, as far as build quality, is whos name is on it. They all hold up really well. Recently we did buy a car. Ended up buying a Mazda van. Not because of build quality, reliability or anything else. Chevy would have been as good as Acura as far as we were concerned, but Mazda was the only van that had what we wanted, and did it for much cheaper than anyone else could have. We looked up reviews on a car by car basis and did research. I think its rediculous to assume one car is better than another just because of who got to stick their name on it. __________________ Dont cry kid, It's not your fault you suck.

01-24-2004, 03:21 PM	#21 (permalink)
stingc Psycho Location: PA	I've never caught on to the love for japanese cars. The ones I've driven felt cheap - junky interior, no styling, and poor driving feel. I wouldn't care how long it lasted because I'd get too bored to keep it around. I don't see this as a reason to condemn all japanese cars though. I realize I haven't driven every single type (I've driven very few actually), so I'd still consider certain models in the future. I really have no opinion of american cars, since the only ones I've driven are corvettes (which I think are great). I choose cars by seeing if I like driving then, and then checking if the reliability is acceptable - not the other way around. So far my favorite sedans are german.

01-24-2004, 03:24 PM	#22 (permalink)
Tempboy Insane Location: The Red Mile	Even up to last year I've had problems with domestic brand-vehicles. My family bought an entry-level Toyota Sienna last year, and our house was broken into, and they stole all our things, including our van. The insurance company compensated us with a minvan rental (I don't remember what it was, I think it was a Ford or a Chevy) until we could get another Sienna. You could feel and see the difference in quality. The most obvious difference was the sound. The engine roared like an airplane in the rental, but you could barely hear the engine at all in the Sienna.

01-24-2004, 04:53 PM	#23 (permalink)
Boo Leave me alone! Location: Alaska, USA	I buy what works, based on my experiences and others that I trust. I refuse to buy a car or minivan. They have never been up to the quality or resale of a truck or SUV. I currently have 2 Fords (Expedition and Super-Duty) and a Toyota (Tacoma) and love them all. I buy John Deere power equipment because I can get parts and service second to none. I have a Yamaha snowblower because it is the BEST available. I won't own one of their ATV's. I want a Yamaha generator in the near future. I ride a Polaris ATV because of its ride and power. My son rides a Honda because of its stability and reliability. I buy Sony, JBL, and Phillips electronics. I won't own another Hitachi.... EVER! I buy off the shelf clothes for daily wear but go for name brand (Columbia) for fishing and other outdoor activities where cold gets old. BTW, IMO, I won't buy the "hot thing" from California or anywhere else that claims to be cutting edge because I believe fads get started too easily. __________________ Back button again, I must be getting old.