Will they use truth serum on Suddam? - Page 2 - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Halx · 12-16-2003, 02:10 AM

Yes, they used kids music and metallica as torture to get the Iraqi POWs to talk. Our music is like a soul vice to them. It's great.

Mehoni · 12-16-2003, 06:50 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Phaenx
1) Fought our soldiers in the gulf war.
2) Attempted to assassinate President George H.W. Bush.
3) Repeatedly fired on USAF planes patroling no fly zones over Iraq.
4) Ignored ban on WMD's.
5) Refused to provide proof of the destruction of illegal weapons previously verified a short few years before.
6) Again fought our soldiers in operation Iraqi freedom.

1) Yeah, he should just lie down and he ha sno right to defend his country.
4) The US sold WMD's/ingredients for WMD's to him and this also happend:

Quote:

March, 1986. The United States with Great Britain block all Security Council resolutions condemning Iraq's use of chemical weapons, and on March 21 the US becomes the only country refusing to sign a Security Council statement condemning Iraq's use of these weapons. (10)

5) He provided proof, reports etc. It's just that you chose to not belive him. He let the inspectors in several times.
6) Again, "Operation Occupation of Iraq" didn't mean he was nto allowed to defend himself.

orphen · 12-16-2003, 07:34 AM

what's the truth serum?

lordjeebus · 12-16-2003, 07:55 AM

Sodium Pentothal (what is commonly called "truth serum") is not what many people think it is. It can reduce one's inhibitions but can't take away one's self-control. You can't use it to prevent someone from lying.

Also, IIRC, administering drugs to a POW against his will violates the Geneva Convention.

Some info:

Quote:

Starting after World War II as a way of treating war neuroses, psychiatrists often used Sodium Pentothal as part of narcotherapy, a drug treatment that is comparable to hypnosis. A psychiatrist would administer a very small dose of the drug (a dose too small to produce unconsciousness), causing the patient's heart rate to slow, relieving tension and anxiety and producing a state of complete relaxation. The idea behind narcotherapy was to make the patient more susceptible to suggestion than normal, allowing the psychiatrist to uncover repressed feelings or memories. Since hypnosis only works on about 20% of the population, the use of sedatives as a part of narcotherapy (including Sodium Pentothal, Sodium Amytal and Scopalamine, all classified as "hypnotics") was therefore considered a good alternative.
Sodium Pentothal received the nickname "Truth Serum" because its effects, guided by the psychiatrist in therapy sessions, caused the patient to become very communicative, verbalizing thoughts easily without inhibition. While under the effect of the drug, however, the patient may lose his inhibitions, but he does not lose self-control (just as in hypnosis: a person can't be hypnotized into doing something he doesn't want to do, or is unnatural to him, like robbing a bank). For that reason, a patient will not tell the truth if he chooses not to. It's not like those scenes from old TV shows, where the guy gets injected with Sodium Pentothal and, after an enormous internal struggle, is forced to speak the truth; Sodium Pentothal as a way of determining the truth depends entirely on the willingness of the patient.

(from http://www.scienceweb.org/tv/highincident.html)

a2k · 12-16-2003, 09:45 AM

Remember, the pictures that we see of him are the pictures "they" want us to see of him.

SecretMethod70 · 12-16-2003, 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mehoni
1) Yeah, he should just lie down and he ha sno right to defend his country.

Maybe this was just a misunderstanding of what he meant by "Gulf War" but, if not, you need to read up on your history a bit. The Gulf War was set in motion August 2, 1990 when Iraq invaded Kuwait. The US did very little in the way of attacking Iraq beyond what was necessary to push them out of Kuwait. So, if by defending his country you mean continuing to fight for the ability to continue his crimes, then I suppose you're right. But we never say that someone who murders a police officer resisting arrest "had a right to defend himself." Why? Because he was defending actions which were ultimately wrong, whatever they may be. Same with the Gulf War. Saddam was defending his ability to invade a small neighboring country. He had no right to invade it and thus had no "right" to defend himself.

Quote:

5) He provided proof, reports etc. It's just that you chose to not belive him. He let the inspectors in several times.

The UN refused to believe him as well. And he never provided all the proof and documents they asked for. This is an indisputable fact. Maybe it's true - maybe he didn't have WMDs anymore, but either way, proof has never been provide of ALL of their destruction.

Whether or not he had WMD's at the time of this war, I can'ty answer that for sure. I know what I think. But there are certain indisputable facts that apparently you're missing if you think that Iraq was "defending" itself from some injustice in the first Gulf War and if you think they provided proof of the destruction of their WMDs.

Believe whatever you want about the justification of this war. There isn't any PROOF that either side is correct. But believe what you will while understanding that Saddam instigated the first Gulf War - and NO ONE disagrees with this, except perhaps Saddam - and that while they may or may not have had WMDs anymore, proof was never provided.

Opinions are a lot more valid when they're based off the correct facts.

yournamehere · 12-16-2003, 03:13 PM

Let's just give him to the Mossad for a weekend and get it over with.
.
.
.
.
. . . . if we haven't, already.

lordjeebus · 12-16-2003, 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by SecretMethod70
But believe what you will while understanding that Saddam instigated the first Gulf War - and NO ONE disagrees with this, except perhaps Saddam - and that while they may or may not have had WMDs anymore, proof was never provided.

Saddam did instigate it, but the US allowed it to happen. Saddam told the American ambassador (April Glaspie) that he was going to invade Kuwait. Part of her response:

Quote:

I admire your extraordinary efforts to rebuild your country. I know you need funds. We understand that, and our opinion is that you should have the opportunity to rebuild your country.But we have no opinion on Arab-Arab conflicts like your border disagreement with Kuwait.

Two days before the war, Assistant Secretary of State John Kelly testified before Congress:

Quote:

Representative Hamilton: Defense Secretary Richard Cheney has been quoted in the press as saying that the United States was commited to going to the defese of Kuwait if she were attacked. Is that exactly what was said? Could Mr Kelly clarify this?
Assistant Secretary Kelly: .. We have no defense treaty relationship with any Gulf country...
Hamilton: Do we have a commitment to our friends in the Gulf in the event that they are engaged in oil or territorial disputes with their neighbors?
Kelly: As I said, Mr Chairman, we have no defense treaty relationships with any of the countries. We have historically avoided taking a position on border disputes or on internal OPEC deliberations...
Hamilton: If Iraq, for example, charged across the border into Kuwait, for whatever reason, what would be our position with regard to the use of US forces?
Kelly: That, Mr Chairman, is a hypothetical or a contingency, the kind of which I can't get into. Suffice it to say that we would be extremely concerned, but I cannot get into the realm of "what if" answers.
Hamilton: In that circumstance, is it correct to say, however, that we do not have a treaty commitment which would obligate us to engage US forces?
Kelly: That is correct.
Hamilton: That is correct, is it not?
Kelly: That is correct, sir.

Essentially giving Saddam the green light. If the US was really concerned about the protection of Kuwait, we could have just stated then that we would retaliate against an Iraqi incursion and stopped the whole thing without firing a single shot.

That the Bush Sr. administration allowed it to go ahead makes them, in my mind, partially responsible, even if the primary responsibility is Saddam's. It seems clear that, for some reason (oil, perhaps?) the President was interested in having a war.

jbrooks544 · 12-16-2003, 06:51 PM

truth serum = yes

They have very good stuff. even if they just used sodium pentathol, that would work well, plus you don't have any memory of it afterwards, so he wouldn't even know he gave it up.

They release the false statement that "he isn't telling anything" so that the people he's giving up under drugs won't run so far or fast. This probably won't do much good though. Somehow he isnt' saying much, yet they are capturing many others in rebel leadership because of "papers" they found. yeah, papers...

Sho Nuff · 12-17-2003, 07:20 AM

of course they will. Theyd break fingers and toes and use bamboo shoots in the finger nails and japanese water torture if they thought they could get away with it.

mvassek · 12-18-2003, 04:03 PM

Just think a few more seconds and this thread would be a moot point and Saddam would have been splattered all over the inside of his little rat hole from the grenades that were just about dropped in there.

Personally I think he should be raped publicly, beaten publicly, have all of his bones broken publicly, then be raped again and left laying in the dirt to slowly die. and that would be the nice things I would have done to him.

Seaver · 12-18-2003, 07:18 PM

Quote:

That the Bush Sr. administration allowed it to go ahead makes them, in my mind, partially responsible, even if the primary responsibility is Saddam's. It seems clear that, for some reason (oil, perhaps?) the President was interested in having a war.

Yep, you got it. It was all Bush Sr.'s plan to make a war. Nevermind the fact that it was NOT the president who gave Saddam the "green light."

Nevermind the fact that the UN (not the president) gave him an entire month to pull out or face military retaliation. Set on Dec 17th, they gave him until Jan 15th.

Yeah, the ambassador fucked up. But please, there's no Right-Winged conspiracy.

lordjeebus · 12-18-2003, 09:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Seaver
Nevermind the fact that the UN (not the president) gave him an entire month to pull out or face military retaliation. Set on Dec 17th, they gave him until Jan 15th.

Iraq agreed to a Soviet peace plan that would have met all of the UN requirements on Feb. 21 1991. (http://www.moqatel.com/Mokatel/data/...Docs18_1-1.htm)

It was past the Jan. 15th date but would have ended the conflict without ground combat, which started on the 23rd. Nevertheless, the President refused to accept the plan, preferring to use force. There was clearly more at stake than forcing Iraq to meet UN demands -- something Bush Sr. decided was worth risking American soldiers in a ground attack.

12-16-2003, 02:10 AM	#41 (permalink)
Halx Please touch this. Owner/Admin Location: Manhattan	Yes, they used kids music and metallica as torture to get the Iraqi POWs to talk. Our music is like a soul vice to them. It's great. __________________ You have found this post informative. -The Administrator [Don't Feed The Animals]

12-16-2003, 03:13 PM	#47 (permalink)
yournamehere Invisible Location: tentative, at best	Let's just give him to the Mossad for a weekend and get it over with. . . . . . . . . if we haven't, already. __________________ If you want to avoid 95% of internet spelling errors: "If your ridiculous pants are too loose, you're definitely going to lose them. Tell your two loser friends over there that they're going to lose theirs, too." It won't hurt your fashion sense, either. Last edited by yournamehere; 12-18-2003 at 02:25 PM..

12-17-2003, 07:20 AM	#50 (permalink)
Sho Nuff Addict Location: Harlem	of course they will. Theyd break fingers and toes and use bamboo shoots in the finger nails and japanese water torture if they thought they could get away with it. __________________ I know Nietzsche doesnt rhyme with peachy, but you sound like a pretentious prick when you correct me.

12-18-2003, 04:03 PM	#51 (permalink)
mvassek Crazy Location: East Tennessee	Just think a few more seconds and this thread would be a moot point and Saddam would have been splattered all over the inside of his little rat hole from the grenades that were just about dropped in there. Personally I think he should be raped publicly, beaten publicly, have all of his bones broken publicly, then be raped again and left laying in the dirt to slowly die. and that would be the nice things I would have done to him. __________________ Been There, Couldn't do that, No Money, Maybe next time. I did get the T-shirt, but I've put on some weight so it don't fit. It made a nice grease rag!

12-16-2003, 07:34 AM	#43 (permalink)
orphen Insane	what's the truth serum?

12-16-2003, 09:45 AM	#45 (permalink)
a2k Crazy Location: Seattle	Remember, the pictures that we see of him are the pictures "they" want us to see of him.

12-16-2003, 06:51 PM	#49 (permalink)
jbrooks544 Addict	truth serum = yes They have very good stuff. even if they just used sodium pentathol, that would work well, plus you don't have any memory of it afterwards, so he wouldn't even know he gave it up. They release the false statement that "he isn't telling anything" so that the people he's giving up under drugs won't run so far or fast. This probably won't do much good though. Somehow he isnt' saying much, yet they are capturing many others in rebel leadership because of "papers" they found. yeah, papers...