It's better than sitting in prison.. Cali uses inmates as firefighters. - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Halx · 11-03-2003, 01:02 PM

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...dfires_inmates

Quote:

LAKE ARROWHEAD, Calif. - They've dug fire lines and cut trees. They've hustled families to safety and wielded garden hoses in hopes of saving homes.

They're the unsung heroes in fighting Southern California's wildfires — and they're convicted felons.

"We save million-dollar homes for a dollar an hour," said Ricky Frank, 33, doing a 10-year stretch for theft. "You get to help people. It's better doing this than being locked up."

More than half of the state's 3,800 full-time wildland firefighters are prison inmates earning $1 an hour as they work off sentences for nonviolent crimes such as theft and drug possession. About 2,150 offenders — either minimum security wards of the California Youth Authority or adults sentenced to the California Department of Corrections — have been out battling the flames.

"We wouldn't be half the fire department we are now without them," said Karen Terrill, forestry department spokeswoman. "I could tell you stories that would bring tears to your eyes."

The convicts usually are out of sight — as they were Sunday, laying more than a mile of hose, cutting fire lines and grubbing stubborn pockets of flame with shovels, rakes, pickaxes and hoes.

On the day the fire in San Bernadino County flared into a wind-whipped monster, however, residents there caught a rare glimpse of the prisoners in the unusual role of trying to protect houses.

The inmate crews are neither trained nor equipped for fighting house fires. But a 28-inmate strike team happened to be one of the first to arrive. They grabbed garden hoses and borrowed chain saws from homeowners. Burglars and thieves risked their lives to rescue prized possessions from doomed homes.

"The ceilings and light fixtures were coming down around us. You're wondering if you'll have to go out a window" to escape, said Greg Welch, 34, serving seven years for selling drugs. "It was chaos."

The homeowners didn't know that the firefighters dressed in bright orange were inmates.

One family asked crew members back for dinner — an invitation they had to decline. Another family spotted them leaving a restaurant days later and rushed to thank them.

Another night, "a guy and his wife just drove up and handed us about a hundred hamburgers. That was pretty cool," recalled convicted burglar David Townsend, 34. "They treated us just like another human, which is nice."

The state began using inmates to do roadwork in 1915, and opened its first temporary inmate fire camps during World War II. The program now has 4,100 inmates in 38 conservation camps: 33 operated by the forestry department, five by Los Angeles County. Three of the camps — two state and one county — are for women.

"There's nothing charitable going on here," Terrill said. "These guys get the same training, equipment and do the same work as a regular crew."

When they're not fighting fires for $1 an hour, they're earning as little as $1.40 a day cleaning up parks, rebuilding trails, or making or renovating children's toys. But every day they work, they get two days off their sentence.

"It knocks a year off my time. You can't beat it. It's better than sitting around prison," said Allen Preslar, 53, serving a seven-year drug sentence.

The inmates perform "lousy, backbreaking, very hard work," said John Peck, who manages the Corrections Department's conservation camp program.

Yet, often for the first time in their lives, they're forced to work together as a team, to respect and obey authority, and are rewarded with real, measurable accomplishment.

"We're trying to do something to save taxpayer money, we're trying to do good quality work, we're trying to get these guys to see how good it feels when you're not on the street corner selling drugs," Peck said.

Violent criminals, sex offenders and escape risks aren't eligible. Those selected for the program generally have short sentences remaining, so there's an incentive not to flee or cause trouble, which could earn a longer term or a transfer back behind bars.

Peck and Terrill tell the story of a convict crew that was ready to pull back from a dangerously explosive 1993 fire in Malibu when they spotted a family trapped atop a steep ridge.

"These inmates, making a buck-an-hour, formed a human chain to get these people down the hill," recounts Terrill. Seconds after all were safe, the hillside erupted in flame.

Since my house was threatened by the recent fires, I definately am grateful for all those who helped protect me. It's nice to hear stories like this... convicts learning the value of work and accomplishment. It makes me feel like a bleeding heart liberal to think that these guys are probably all back in their cells by now, after saving millions of dollars of property and possibly lives. Well, it knocks time off their sentence.. that'll suffice.

irseg · 11-03-2003, 01:42 PM

Nice to hear they're saving all those houses and the valuables they contain, so they'll know which ones to hit when they finish their reduced prison sentences. Go California!

sixate · 11-03-2003, 02:41 PM

Good to see they actually did something good, but they were probably checking out which houses they're gonna rob once they get out.

Kaos · 11-03-2003, 03:25 PM

It's about time they started to figure out how to properly rehabilitate these people and save the taxpayers money.

And Halx, I'm pretty sure that a year off of their prison sentence feels like getting a million dollars

sailor · 11-03-2003, 04:59 PM

Yeah. There is lots of untapped labor for emergencies like this in prisons. Granted, the things they can do (because of training and needing to be watched) are limited, but they can do some of the sheer grunt work, freeing up some of the professional firefighters so that they can be where they are needed.

Im glad they did this.

cjayemail · 11-03-2003, 05:54 PM

good to see a productive way prisoners can be used in our society other than sitting in a jail cell every day
great idear

tikki · 11-03-2003, 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sixate
Good to see they actually did something good, but they were probably checking out which houses they're gonna rob once they get out.

Pessimist.

Stuff like this should be the norm. It's job training for convicts for when they get out, and should help them get back on their feet in a more productive way than going back to robbing.

krwlz · 11-04-2003, 08:11 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by sixate
Good to see they actually did something good, but they were probably checking out which houses they're gonna rob once they get out.

Was that really necesary? This is a feel good story, we see positive things happening, and then you go and shit on it...

sta500 · 11-04-2003, 01:47 PM

Those of you who said they were just checking out what houses to hit - you're just assholes. That's totally stereotypical, and put yourself in their position: There's a fucking hugeass fire around you and you're immersed in smoke and heat. Are you going to check out the stereo system or silver? No.

I'd be so stoked if someone gave me 100 hamburgers, no matter what situation.

SecretMethod70 · 11-04-2003, 01:49 PM

You know, it was really tempting to read this story and say exactly what sixate did. I can't say I didn't think of it as I read it. But, the fact is, this program is probably going to make it much less likely that they do rob again than if they weren't involved in it. Kudos to California for trying to REHABILITATE rather than punish prisoners who commit minor offenses.

Halx · 11-04-2003, 02:16 PM

As a followup, I hear that these people generally get 1 day of leniancy for every 1 day they spend on the task force. Some get 2 days for every one.

Hash_Browns · 11-04-2003, 02:39 PM

Very great story! I was at the bar the other day and of the bands was entertaining a family member from I don't know where, but I'm in Michigan, taking a break from the flames in Cali. He had volenteered I guess...I just walked up and shook his hand and said thanks! I would do the very same with these guys if it were not so far away!

Very cool indeed! Thanks Halx!

irseg · 11-04-2003, 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sta500
Those of you who said they were just checking out what houses to hit - you're just assholes. That's totally stereotypical, and put yourself in their position: There's a fucking hugeass fire around you and you're immersed in smoke and heat. Are you going to check out the stereo system or silver? No.

If having common sense makes me an asshole, so be it.

People who committed a crime and got thrown in jail are--now make sure you're sitting down here because this is a real shocker--most likely going to be more predisposed to committing crimes than the general population. Is that discrimination? You betcha! Anything wrong with that? Nope.

And no, I don't think they'd be looting houses in the middle of a fire. And even if they did, it'd be pretty hard to sneak a TV back into jail. We're talking about what they do after they get out from their reduced prison sentences.

mingusfingers · 11-04-2003, 02:52 PM

Awesome. We've got inmates up here collecting trash along the freeway.

Devilchild · 11-04-2003, 02:53 PM

this is a clear example which shows that locking people up dont help, getting them proactive and helping them is surely a better answer, but $1 an hour, if they are not in prision i bet they find it hard to buy food for themselves.

bundy · 11-04-2003, 04:05 PM

haha - the first thing i though when i saw this subject line, and not knowing anything of this story, was that Gray Davis was releasing all of the inmates and scuttling the boat so to speak, before Arnie comes to power, just like Saddam did in Iraq before the US forces moved in... surely Gray wouldn´t stoop so low... j/k

i think its fantastic that these inmates helped out in the fires.
so many able-bodied fit people helping out in such a time of need is great to hear.
i suspect that for a lot of these inmates, this doing good for society may have a positive effect.
i wonder if this is an idea that would work here??
does California, or any of its counties have volunteer fire fighting squads?

we get really bad fires every year over here, and we have a massive group of folks who get out there and train and practice all year in readiness for the summer fires. they do a lot of good in a dangerous environment.

oh, and while we´re discussing those horrible fires... we should thank California once again for letting us borrow Elvis and Isabelle, the two giant water helicopters who have saved countless homes, lives and acres of wilderness. these two machines arrived here yesterday.

ARTelevision · 11-04-2003, 04:39 PM

Members do not call other members "assholes" without being called on it. You've just been called on it - sta500.
....................

It's a great story. If there's any such thing as "rehabilitation" this kind of thing is what it can be. "Productive member of society" is the goal for us all. Duty like this can instill it in even the most lost of us.

james t kirk · 11-04-2003, 07:18 PM

None of those guys are violent i am sure.

It is absurd in this day and age to lock a guy up for drug possesion, but it would seem that a lot of them are in for simple possesion.

Hardly a crime in my eyes.

seethreepo · 11-06-2003, 09:21 AM

chain gangs are a great idea

jail is punishment not about working out , taking drugs, having sex , watching tv. ALL prisoners should be made
to work, fill pot holes, sew sean john sweatshirts etc . kudos to california.

Stare At The Sun · 11-06-2003, 11:35 AM

That is a good idea for them to do that type of work. Honestly, i think it might have a very positive psychological implications on those that want it to. They see what good can do...even if not, they probably saved some lives!

Eldaire · 11-06-2003, 12:31 PM

Don't firefighters get axes? ...

Snakebyt · 11-06-2003, 01:13 PM

i think its great that they are helping out.. one one hand i think it sucks for them to be only making $1 an hour, but if they paid them even Min wage, those are jobs that could go to unemployeed people.. Im glad that they are learning that they can do somthing in there life that makes a difference

Fremen · 11-06-2003, 08:42 PM

This is a good idea.

Too bad the odds are of their being able to get firefighting jobs after their sentence is over is slim.

tangledweb · 11-09-2003, 11:49 AM

Putting prisoners to work for the betterment of the taxpayers who are paying their rent...hmmm makes perfect sense to me.

Prison road crews should have never been abolished in the first place.

I know that this is not the PC thing to say but inmates should help to alleviate the burden of their imprisonment in any way that is safe and possible. It just makes sense to use the people who are otherwise not contributing....but that is just my opinion.

11-03-2003, 03:25 PM	#4 (permalink)
Kaos Ssssssssss Location: Ontario	It's about time they started to figure out how to properly rehabilitate these people and save the taxpayers money. And Halx, I'm pretty sure that a year off of their prison sentence feels like getting a million dollars Last edited by Kaos; 11-03-2003 at 03:27 PM..

11-03-2003, 04:59 PM	#5 (permalink)
sailor beauty in the breakdown Location: Chapel Hill, NC	Yeah. There is lots of untapped labor for emergencies like this in prisons. Granted, the things they can do (because of training and needing to be watched) are limited, but they can do some of the sheer grunt work, freeing up some of the professional firefighters so that they can be where they are needed. Im glad they did this. __________________ "Good people do not need laws to tell them to act responsibly, while bad people will find a way around the laws." --Plato

11-03-2003, 05:54 PM	#6 (permalink)
cjayemail Tilted Location: south florida	good to see a productive way prisoners can be used in our society other than sitting in a jail cell every day great idear __________________ never underestimate the predictability of stupidity

11-04-2003, 01:49 PM	#10 (permalink)
SecretMethod70 Human Administrator Location: Chicago	You know, it was really tempting to read this story and say exactly what sixate did. I can't say I didn't think of it as I read it. But, the fact is, this program is probably going to make it much less likely that they do rob again than if they weren't involved in it. Kudos to California for trying to REHABILITATE rather than punish prisoners who commit minor offenses. __________________ Le temps détruit tout "Musicians are the carriers and communicators of spirit in the most immediate sense." - Kurt Elling

11-04-2003, 02:16 PM	#11 (permalink)
Halx Please touch this. Owner/Admin Location: Manhattan	As a followup, I hear that these people generally get 1 day of leniancy for every 1 day they spend on the task force. Some get 2 days for every one. __________________ You have found this post informative. -The Administrator [Don't Feed The Animals]

11-03-2003, 01:42 PM	#2 (permalink)
irseg Junkie Location: Florida	Nice to hear they're saving all those houses and the valuables they contain, so they'll know which ones to hit when they finish their reduced prison sentences. Go California!

11-03-2003, 02:41 PM	#3 (permalink)
sixate Registered User Location: Somewhere in Ohio	Good to see they actually did something good, but they were probably checking out which houses they're gonna rob once they get out.

11-04-2003, 01:47 PM	#9 (permalink)
sta500 Tilted	Those of you who said they were just checking out what houses to hit - you're just assholes. That's totally stereotypical, and put yourself in their position: There's a fucking hugeass fire around you and you're immersed in smoke and heat. Are you going to check out the stereo system or silver? No. I'd be so stoked if someone gave me 100 hamburgers, no matter what situation.

11-04-2003, 02:39 PM	#12 (permalink)
Hash_Browns Psycho Location: Right behind you...BOO!	Very great story! I was at the bar the other day and of the bands was entertaining a family member from I don't know where, but I'm in Michigan, taking a break from the flames in Cali. He had volenteered I guess...I just walked up and shook his hand and said thanks! I would do the very same with these guys if it were not so far away! Very cool indeed! Thanks Halx! __________________ Smile It makes people wonder what you're up too!

11-04-2003, 02:52 PM	#14 (permalink)
mingusfingers Psycho Location: uhhhh	Awesome. We've got inmates up here collecting trash along the freeway. __________________ Still Looking

11-04-2003, 02:53 PM	#15 (permalink)
Devilchild Crazy	this is a clear example which shows that locking people up dont help, getting them proactive and helping them is surely a better answer, but $1 an hour, if they are not in prision i bet they find it hard to buy food for themselves.

11-04-2003, 04:05 PM	#16 (permalink)
bundy . Location: Tokyo	haha - the first thing i though when i saw this subject line, and not knowing anything of this story, was that Gray Davis was releasing all of the inmates and scuttling the boat so to speak, before Arnie comes to power, just like Saddam did in Iraq before the US forces moved in... surely Gray wouldn´t stoop so low... j/k i think its fantastic that these inmates helped out in the fires. so many able-bodied fit people helping out in such a time of need is great to hear. i suspect that for a lot of these inmates, this doing good for society may have a positive effect. i wonder if this is an idea that would work here?? does California, or any of its counties have volunteer fire fighting squads? we get really bad fires every year over here, and we have a massive group of folks who get out there and train and practice all year in readiness for the summer fires. they do a lot of good in a dangerous environment. oh, and while we´re discussing those horrible fires... we should thank California once again for letting us borrow Elvis and Isabelle, the two giant water helicopters who have saved countless homes, lives and acres of wilderness. these two machines arrived here yesterday. __________________ Ohayo!!!

11-04-2003, 04:39 PM	#17 (permalink)
ARTelevision I change Location: USA	Members do not call other members "assholes" without being called on it. You've just been called on it - sta500. .................... It's a great story. If there's any such thing as "rehabilitation" this kind of thing is what it can be. "Productive member of society" is the goal for us all. Duty like this can instill it in even the most lost of us. __________________ create evolution

11-04-2003, 07:18 PM	#18 (permalink)
james t kirk Junkie Location: Toronto	None of those guys are violent i am sure. It is absurd in this day and age to lock a guy up for drug possesion, but it would seem that a lot of them are in for simple possesion. Hardly a crime in my eyes.

11-06-2003, 09:21 AM	#19 (permalink)
seethreepo Addict Location: outer reaches of space	chain gangs are a great idea jail is punishment not about working out , taking drugs, having sex , watching tv. ALL prisoners should be made to work, fill pot holes, sew sean john sweatshirts etc . kudos to california. __________________ rub it and see.

11-06-2003, 11:35 AM	#20 (permalink)
Stare At The Sun Eh? Location: Somewhere over the rainbow	That is a good idea for them to do that type of work. Honestly, i think it might have a very positive psychological implications on those that want it to. They see what good can do...even if not, they probably saved some lives!

11-06-2003, 12:31 PM	#21 (permalink)
Eldaire Loser Location: Davidson College, NC	Don't firefighters get axes? ...

11-06-2003, 01:13 PM	#22 (permalink)
Snakebyt Psycho Location: Lubbock Texas	i think its great that they are helping out.. one one hand i think it sucks for them to be only making $1 an hour, but if they paid them even Min wage, those are jobs that could go to unemployeed people.. Im glad that they are learning that they can do somthing in there life that makes a difference

11-06-2003, 08:42 PM	#23 (permalink)
Fremen With a mustache, the cool factor would be too much Location: left side of my couch, East Texas	This is a good idea. Too bad the odds are of their being able to get firefighting jobs after their sentence is over is slim. __________________ Google

11-09-2003, 11:49 AM	#24 (permalink)
tangledweb slightly impaired Location: Down South	Putting prisoners to work for the betterment of the taxpayers who are paying their rent...hmmm makes perfect sense to me. Prison road crews should have never been abolished in the first place. I know that this is not the PC thing to say but inmates should help to alleviate the burden of their imprisonment in any way that is safe and possible. It just makes sense to use the people who are otherwise not contributing....but that is just my opinion.