"Hip Hop Holds Blacks Back." - Page 2 - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Trilidon · 08-08-2003, 12:03 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by TwistedFate
Garrett Morgan, an African American, invented the automatic traffic light in 1823. Before that they were all manual.

First off I said traffic light, not automatic traffic light, either way your wrong.

While the black Garrett A. Morgan did submit and receive a patent for a
traffic signal in 1923, he did not invent the traffic light. The first
"traffic light" was created in London in 1868, used to control the traffic
of pedestrians and buggies. It was illuminated by gas using green and red
colors, and was manually operated by policemen who turned a lever to reveal
the appropriate color to the appropriate lane of traffic. Railroads were
already using a lighting system as well. It was a police officer, William
Potts, who first improved on the gas-light invention, which required a
police officer to operate. William Potts recognized the need for something
better when he observed that police officers were spending much of their
time directing traffic after the invention of the automobile. He created an
electric lighting system using red, amber, and green to control automobile
traffic in Detroit. It was first used in 1920 and was the herald of the
modern traffic light. William Potts was not black. Garrett A. Morgan's
traffic light of 1923 did not contribute significantly to the traffic light
of today, but resembled train switching lights already in use.

TwistedFate · 08-09-2003, 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Trilidon
First off I said traffic light, not automatic traffic light, either way your wrong.

. . . .

He created an
electric lighting system using red, amber, and green to control automobile
traffic in Detroit. It was first used in 1920 and was the herald of the
modern traffic light. William Potts was not black. Garrett A. Morgan's
traffic light of 1923 did not contribute significantly to the traffic light
of today, but resembled train switching lights already in use.

First off, Nas probably said automatic traffic light, not traffic light. Either way you are still wrong.

Officer William Potts revised the existing traffic light style by making them electric instead of gas lamps after a gas lamp exploded and injured the officer operating it. His traffic lights, however, were still manually operated. Morgan's light was the first automatic one, and saying that isn't a significant improvement is patently absurd.

MacGnG · 08-09-2003, 08:45 PM

wow u guys really need to find soemthing else to argue about. its traffic lights.

TwistedFate · 08-09-2003, 08:49 PM

We aren't arguing, at least I'm not. When I resort to immature name calling, then I can be considered to be arguing

Spritebox · 08-10-2003, 05:55 PM

Fucking rap. Die already.

Infinite Hybrid · 08-10-2003, 08:39 PM

Thank you Twisted Fate. I was going to research it, but you beat me too it. Thank you.

Back on subject: In a lot of this man's points I believe to be valid. Despite being black, I listen to very little (i.e. none) mainstream hip hop. I just couldn't get into (I listen to mostly metal/emo/punk/etc.). I honestly feel that the black community as a whole is forcefeed this crap (yes, a majority of mainstream rap is crap) that they don't even know why they listen to it. Are there expections? Yes, but they are too few and far between.

Actually, from my exprience, I've gotten more shit from black folk about acting "white" (music choice / talking proper) than from white people. Is every black person a wannabe thug? No of course not, but a number of individuals accept the ghetto/thug-life as norm which is a pity. I don't think the music is all to blame, I think it is just a hint that there is a bigger problem.

IckUber · 08-11-2003, 12:32 PM

Rap sucks.

warrrreagl · 08-11-2003, 09:32 PM

I agree with a lot of his commentary on black culture, but I disagree that the music is to blame.

Since the author spoke in generalities, then so will I. In white society, people cannot get ahead unless they behave. People who refuse to behave understand this principle and accept their lot. There is constant pressure placed on whites from within their own society to behave.

Black society does not enforce the same limits on its own people. On the contrary, young black men who do not behave seem to be the richest, most respected members of black society. There is no pressure (or reward) in black society to behave. Blacks who choose to behave and advance their lives are ridiculed from within their own community and must face the dilemma of being either downtrodden and accepted or being successful and homeless.

Whites expect blacks to act like they do and respect the value of behaving. Blacks expect whites to act like they do and respect the value of thuggery.

Whites are able to listen to revolutionary popular music without breaking down society because they understand the folly of misbehaving in white society.

Blacks who listen to hip hop and display similar thug behavior are using the music to reinforce the image, not the other way around. If you take away the boom boxes at the KFC, those kids would still have been assholes.

There are a lot of things holding back black society, but hip hop ain't one of them.

tcxsnoop · 08-16-2003, 12:25 PM

I could never understand why people run around saying rap sucks, rap needs to die, etc...

You never hear people who enjoy rap saying this sucks, this needs to die, etc.

08-16-2003, 08:02 PM

Quote:

FUCK HIP HOP
by Anonymous
I know you've been thinking it. And if you haven't, you probably haven't been paying attention. The art we once called hip hop has been dead for some time now. But because its rotting carcass has been draped in platinum and propped against a Gucci print car, many of us have missed its demise.
I think the time has come to bid a farewell to the last black arts movement.

It's had a good run but it no longer serves the community that spawned it.

Innovation has been replaced with mediocrity and originality replaced with recycled nostalgia for the ghost of hip hop past, leaving nothing to look forward to. Honestly when was the last time you heard something (mainstream) that made you want to run around in circles and write down every word. When was the last time you didn't feel guilty nodding your head to a song that had a 'hot beat' after realizing the lyrical content made you cringe.

When I heard Jam Master Jay had been murdered, it was the icing on the cake.

A friend and I spoke for hours after he'd turned on the radio looking for solace and instead heard a member of the label Murder, Inc. about to give testimony about the slain DJ's legacy. My friend found the irony too great to even hear what the rapper had to say.

After we got off the phone, I dug through my crates and played the single "Self Destruction." The needle fell on the lyrics: "They call us animals I don't agree with them Let's prove em wrong But right is what were proving em"

The only thing that kept me from crying was my anger trying to imagine today's top hip hop artists getting together to do a song that urged disarmament in African American communities, or promoted literacy, or involved anything bigger than themselves for that matter. I couldn't picture it.

All I could picture were the myriad of hip hop conferences where the moguls and figureheads go through the motions and say the things that people want to hear but at the end of the day nothing changes. No new innovative artists are hired to balance out a roster of the pornographic fratricidal MC's.

In their place, we're presented with yet more examples of arrested development - the portrayal of grown men and women acting and dressing like 15 year olds. Balding insecure men in their mid 30's making entire songs about their sexual prowess and what shiny toys they have and you don't.

The only hate I see is self-hate. The only love I see is self-love. All one needs to do is watch cribs and notice none of these people, showing off their heated indoor pools or the PlayStation Two consoles installed in all twelve of their luxury cars, have a library in their home. Or display a bookshelf, for that matter. No rapper on cribs has ever been quoted saying: "Yeah, this is the room where I do all my reading, nahmean?"

To quote Puffy in Vogue magazine Nov, 2002: "Diamonds are a great investment... They're not only a girl's best friend, they are my best friend. I like the way diamonds make me feel. I can't really explain it, its like: that's a rock, something sent to me from nature, from God, it makes me feel good... It's almost like my security cape."

If rappers read, they might know about the decades of near-slavery endured by South African diamond miners. Or the rebels in Sierra Leone whose bloody diamond-fueled anti-voting rampages leave thousands of innocent men, women and children with amputated limbs.

Often, hip hop's blatant excess is rationalized with, "We came from nothing." That statement rings hollow given even a little bit of context.

African Americans have been "coming from nothing" for 400 years. That didn't stop previous generations of artists, activists, and ancestors from working toward a better situation for the whole, not just themselves. It's grotesque to see such selfish materialism celebrated by a generation who are literally the children of apartheid. The time has come to re-define the street and what it means to come from the street. Yes, criminals & violence come from the streets, but so do men and women who live their lives with kindness, and within the realm of the law. The problem with making! 'street' or 'realness' synonymous with criminality is that poor black children are demonized. You never see the image of middle class white children killing each other promoted as entertainment.

I respect the ability of an artist to explore the darker side or extremities of their personality but when that's all there is, there is no balance. In previous years, NWA existed simultaneously with Native Tongues, Cypress Hill and Digable Planets, Gangstar and 2 live crew.

There's room for thugz, playaz, gangstas, and what have you. My issue (aside from the fact that rappers spell everything phonetically) is that they have no heart. Rappers reflect what has become a new image of success where money is its own validation and caring is soft unless you're dropping a single about your dead homie.

Question: Why haven't these so-called "ballers" gotten together and bought a farm, a prison, a super market chain, or chartered a school? But they all have clothing lines. Smells like a sucker to me. The lack of social responsibility from people who claim to 'rep the streets' is stunning.

Yet we still have had the hearts and minds of most of the world. We negate this power if we don't step up to the plate. Our perspective needs to change; our whole idea of power needs to globalize. Gangsta shouldn't be shooting someone you grew up with in the face; "Gangsta" is calling the United States to task for not attending the World Summit on Racism in South Africa. "Balling" shouldn't be renting a mansion; it should be owning your own distribution company or starting a union. Bill Cosby's bid to buy NBC was more threatening than any screwface jewelry clad MC in a video could ever be.

As a DJ, it's hard: I pick up the instrumental version of records that people nod their head to... and mix it with the a cappella version of artists with something to say. It is expensive and frustrating. But I feel like the alternative is the musical equivalent to selling crack: spinning hits because it's easy, ignoring the fact that it's got us dancing to genocide. There are plenty of alternatives today but you'd never know it through the mass media. Hip hop has become Steven Seagal in a doo-rag.

Meanwhile, media radar rarely registers artists like Cannibal Ox, Madlib and the whole Stones Throw crew, Bless, Saul Williams, Bus Driver, Del, Gorillaz, anything from Def Jux, Freestyle Fellowship, Anti Pop Consortium, Kool Keith, Prince Paul, shit Public Enemy... the list goes on for ever. I get some solace from knowing and supporting these artists, and from the fact that around the world from Germany to Cuba to Brazil to South Africa, hip hop's accessibility and capacity for genius is still vital, thriving, and relevant.

And yes even among the bleak landscape in this country, wonderful things do happen. Like Camp Cool J and various artists donating money to research AIDS and even lend their faces to voting campaigns. Russell Simmons, among other socially conscious endeavors, led a rally to stop NYC's mayor from cutting the school budget and donates part of the proceeds from his sneaker sales to the reparations movement. The lack of coverage of efforts like this is as much to blame as any wack MC with a platinum record.

I'm not dissing the innovators of the art form, or those of us who got it where it is today. I will always play and support what I feel is good work. I guess this rant came more out of what Chuck D said at the end of Self Destruction: "We've got to keep ourselves in check," and no one has checked hip hop for some time.

I've entertained the idea that I might just be getting old. But if it's a function of my age that I remember hip hop as the peoples champ, so be it.

I was raised on a vital art form that has now become a computer-generated character doing the cabbage patch in a commercial, or a comedian 'raising the roof.' That's not influence to me, that's mockery. Hip hop my friend, it's been a great 30 years filled with great memories, and it's been fun to watch you grow. We've got dozens of broke innovators and plenty of mediocre millionaires out of the deal, but I really need my space now and we've got to go our separate ways. I will always love you, but it's time for me to move on.

Yo, what happened to peace? Peace.

Wanna see this article in your favorite hip hop, teeny, style or music magazine. Make one or more copies go to your local drug store or supermarket and stick them there. If that act is too guerilla for your tastes, just email it to a friend.

Have fun, stay blessed and smile today.

Hip-Hop is a wonderful artform. In my opinion, the most innovative style of music currently out there. I hope this article touched you like it did me. Hip-Hop needs to stay alive, Hip-Pop must die.

Nizzle · 08-16-2003, 08:35 PM

You could say the same thing about every other style of music that has been commercialized. There's a lot of crap that is built on the foundation of innovative artists of the past. They do this to make money and get famous. It's inevitable and kind of sad. I kind of feel sorry for kids today, because there really doesn't seem to be anything good being done in any genre, not just hip hop.

08-09-2003, 08:49 PM	#44 (permalink)
TwistedFate Crazy	We aren't arguing, at least I'm not. When I resort to immature name calling, then I can be considered to be arguing __________________ If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.

08-10-2003, 05:55 PM	#45 (permalink)
Spritebox Insane Location: Charlotte, N.C.	Fucking rap. Die already. __________________ it's all nice on ice alright and it's not day and it's not night but it's all nice on ice alright

08-10-2003, 08:39 PM	#46 (permalink)
Infinite Hybrid Crazy	Thank you Twisted Fate. I was going to research it, but you beat me too it. Thank you. Back on subject: In a lot of this man's points I believe to be valid. Despite being black, I listen to very little (i.e. none) mainstream hip hop. I just couldn't get into (I listen to mostly metal/emo/punk/etc.). I honestly feel that the black community as a whole is forcefeed this crap (yes, a majority of mainstream rap is crap) that they don't even know why they listen to it. Are there expections? Yes, but they are too few and far between. Actually, from my exprience, I've gotten more shit from black folk about acting "white" (music choice / talking proper) than from white people. Is every black person a wannabe thug? No of course not, but a number of individuals accept the ghetto/thug-life as norm which is a pity. I don't think the music is all to blame, I think it is just a hint that there is a bigger problem. __________________ paramedics fell into the wound like a rehired scab at a barehanded plant an anesthetic penance beneath the hail of contraband

08-11-2003, 12:32 PM	#47 (permalink)
IckUber Funran Location: Norman, OK	Rap sucks. __________________ How much is y'all Piolkles?

08-11-2003, 09:32 PM	#48 (permalink)
warrrreagl pinche vato Location: backwater, Third World, land of cotton	I agree with a lot of his commentary on black culture, but I disagree that the music is to blame. Since the author spoke in generalities, then so will I. In white society, people cannot get ahead unless they behave. People who refuse to behave understand this principle and accept their lot. There is constant pressure placed on whites from within their own society to behave. Black society does not enforce the same limits on its own people. On the contrary, young black men who do not behave seem to be the richest, most respected members of black society. There is no pressure (or reward) in black society to behave. Blacks who choose to behave and advance their lives are ridiculed from within their own community and must face the dilemma of being either downtrodden and accepted or being successful and homeless. Whites expect blacks to act like they do and respect the value of behaving. Blacks expect whites to act like they do and respect the value of thuggery. Whites are able to listen to revolutionary popular music without breaking down society because they understand the folly of misbehaving in white society. Blacks who listen to hip hop and display similar thug behavior are using the music to reinforce the image, not the other way around. If you take away the boom boxes at the KFC, those kids would still have been assholes. There are a lot of things holding back black society, but hip hop ain't one of them. __________________ Living is easy with eyes closed.

08-09-2003, 08:45 PM	#43 (permalink)
MacGnG Know Where!	wow u guys really need to find soemthing else to argue about. its traffic lights.

08-16-2003, 12:25 PM	#49 (permalink)
tcxsnoop Crazy Location: Jerzee	I could never understand why people run around saying rap sucks, rap needs to die, etc... You never hear people who enjoy rap saying this sucks, this needs to die, etc. __________________ Carmella DeCesare > All Thank You - Liqour Dealer, asdf1001, Candyman

08-16-2003, 08:35 PM	#51 (permalink)
Nizzle God-Hating Liberal Location: Silicon Valley, CA	You could say the same thing about every other style of music that has been commercialized. There's a lot of crap that is built on the foundation of innovative artists of the past. They do this to make money and get famous. It's inevitable and kind of sad. I kind of feel sorry for kids today, because there really doesn't seem to be anything good being done in any genre, not just hip hop. __________________ Nizzle