Happiness

I live in a suburban neighborhood in Indiana, and the animals are sometimes violent.

Twice have I nearly gotten mauled by some neighbor's escaped dogs. Now I got attacked by a goose when returning a library book tonight.

Is there a way I can legally protect myself from animal attacks? Is it legal to kill an unprovoked violent animal?

KirStang

Carry some pepper spray on you. You can probably legally spray them if you have a bona fide fear for bodily harm.

ETA: Goose? Really?

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ItWasMe

Are stun guns legal where you are? My dog doesn't like mine.

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citadel

A gun and a permit to carry it? Near mauling doesn't sound like an event I'd want to bring pepper spray to.

chinese crested

Could you please explain in greater detail the near mauling. On the occassion of a dog on dog attack - neither mine - the agressor obeyed when I bellowed DOWN. Never squeal, you will sound like a squeaky toy and will encourage unwanted further attention. If a dog bites and holds, cover the dogs head with a coat, and instinctively it will release its grip when it can not see. I would not recommend pepper spray, but - a water bottle with the squirty top - its the sudden distraction that halts current behaviour - squirt it with water - I was going to say 'water pistol' - but I think people have been shot for similar - by mistake of course - but the hole in the ground is a six foot one regardless.
As for the goose - most effective guard creatures utilised by the romans and still used by the MOD. Dont just run, plan your escape because they can be cunning buggers capable of planning I believe - they usually go for the ankle I think.
The dogs should not be loose on the street anyway, and their owners are responsible for any costs incurred by dogs behaviour. Sadly, in UK they would come under dangerous dogs act and face death for causing 'fear or trepidation' - even a yorkie can be level with a GSD or a Bull Terrier when it comes down to that one sentence.
Personaly - I blame the owners, not the dogs, so an ice pick lobotomy on the owners should be fair. Not the dogs fault, its owners that choose the dogs, not other way round.

genuinegirly

Hey KirStang, geese are nasty when aggravated. Never get between a mum-goose and her chicks.

Pepper spray is a good option, assuming it is legal to carry wherever you live. Some places where it's not legal to use pepper spray on humans, it is legal to have them on hand for precisely your concern. Check out laws in your state. Good luck!

__________________
"Sometimes I have to remember that things are brought to me for a reason, either for my own lessons or for the benefit of others." Cynthetiq

"violence is no more or less real than non-violence." roachboy

rmarshall

I can relate to this. Once, while delivering papers, I was attacked by two dogs running loose. I had a rolled up paper and while fending off one dog with it, the other snuck around and bit my calf and shredded my jeans. I tried to kick the dog and they took off.
I bled quite a bit for the rest of the day and the jeans were soaked with blood.
There's something about the bag paperboys and mail carriers have that brings out the aggressiveness in otherwise nice dogs.
I wonder if carrying one of those aerosol horns I have in my boat would help. The noise would deafen the dogs (and wake up the neighbourhood!) and scare them off.

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"Do not resent growing old. Many are denied the privilege" Irish proverb

KirStang

Yea, I know geese are scary (my aunt used to raise some), it's just funny, the thought of running away from a pecking biting goose. Wonk wonk wonk wonk.

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The_Jazz

I get the goose thing. In college for XC practice, we'd sometimes do repeat miles around a local lake with lots of geese. At least one person got bit every time, sometimes multiple. They're suprisingly fast.

A goose is a wild animal but could be a protected species. Make sure you know what you're dealing with first. If it's a Canadian Goose, you should be fine to whack it with a stick. They back off when that happens.

Dogs? That can be tougher. If you harm the dog on the owner's property, you could be liable for the injuries. Not all dogs are rational creatures, and their idea of what is a threat does not have to match yours. But if you want to keep the dog away without harming it, we need more information.

__________________
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - B. Franklin
"There ought to be limits to freedom." - George W. Bush
"We have met the enemy and he is us." - Pogo

dlish

you could always talk to the jazz for insurance. i guess thats one way of 'legally' protecting yourself

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An injustice anywhere, is an injustice everywhere

I always sign my facebook comments with ()()===========(}. Does that make me gay?
- Filthy

KirStang

Sounds like the dogs are getting loose and the OP is getting 'nearly mauled.' That tends to suggest that the liability for injuries falls on the dog owner rather than the OP. Doesn't seem like the OP's hopping from lawn to lawn maliciously pepper spraying dogs.

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Happiness

Thanks for the advice everybody! I never thought this thread would get ten replies overnight! I'll just respond to everybody based on subject.

Weapons:

I was thinking about getting a pistol or a Taser to protect myself. Sadly, it would take a long time to train myself with these weapons, and even if I did all that work, these weapons would be over the top for dogs and geese. I like the pepper spray idea.

Mauling stories:

1) My mother and I were walking my tame dog around the neighborhood. Normally, some people's dogs bark at us from their houses and yards. This particular day two dogs escaped from somebody's fenced yard and wandered over to us. The first dog was calm, but the second one started growling. My mother and I stopped walking, looked at the vicious dog straight in the eyes, and I yelled stop. The dog calmed down and we all continued the walk.

2) I was out bike riding in another part of the neighborhood. After deciding to visit my old friend's house, I took a wrong turn and ended up at some other court. After turning around, some dog comes out of nowhere and starts running at me at full speed. I start away riding as fast as I could while praying for my life. The dog jumps up at me but I get away safely.

3) Yesterday evening I drove to the library to return a book after the building was already closed. There is an SUV parked in front of the book return, so I park my car in the parking lot. After getting out, I notice two geese blocking my way, so I walk a long way around them. The SUV drives away, and I head for the book return. One of the geese immediately starts flying, and goes straight for my face. I start running towards my car and look back. The geese are leaving me alone, and I catch my breath, wondering how I'm going to get to the book return. Thankfully, my second attempt was successful, as the geese decided to leave me alone.

The_Jazz

I count zero near-maulings and one typical encounter with Canadian Geese. They're probably nesting nearby, which means you're a threat. They can't really hurt you beyond kind of pinching you. Painful but certainly not life-threatening.

__________________
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - B. Franklin
"There ought to be limits to freedom." - George W. Bush
"We have met the enemy and he is us." - Pogo

Happiness

Wow. Do you live in the Twilight Zone? Are you insane?

"Hey guys, I was just walking on the sidewalk when some dog ran up to me with the hair on it's back raised, it's teeth bared, and growled at me. I think acting friendly! It won't hurt me at all! I think it wants to play!"

Completely stupid. And where do you live that geese fly in your face all the time and is completely normal? "Hey, everybody should avoid visiting public buildings because we have to respect the geese!"

I expected better of you Admin.

Strange Famous

A stern and masterful gaze normally does the trick vs a dog?

__________________
"Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate,
for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing
hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain
without being uncovered."

The Gospel of Thomas

dlish

you must have read this book SF

__________________
An injustice anywhere, is an injustice everywhere

I always sign my facebook comments with ()()===========(}. Does that make me gay?
- Filthy

Zeraph

Man, your word vs a dogs? I think the human being will win. Kill those loose fuckers. And this is coming from a dog lover/owner. I hate people who can't keep their dogs under control.

Fire

pepper spray is a good solution for all these problems- a good brand works on two legged assailants too.....

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Thought the harder, Heart the bolder,
Mood the more as our might lessens

The_Jazz

Why, because I have an opinion that's different than yours? Are you somehow infallible?

Jesus, I wasn't even rude about it.

Did the dog bite you? No. Until it attempts to actually make contact, it's trying to frighten you out of its territory. I can understand how it might be a little bit of a scary moment, but calling it a "near mauling" is seriously overstating it. Using your same definition, I've almost been mauled hundreds of times. It's amazing I'm still alive! [/sarcasm]

And you obviously didn't bother to read anything else I wrote since the remainder's a complete knee-jerk. The only way a goose is ever going to hurt you in a way that's not going to be momentary discomfort is if you hit it with your car and it flies through your windshield.

__________________
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - B. Franklin
"There ought to be limits to freedom." - George W. Bush
"We have met the enemy and he is us." - Pogo

Strange Famous

I havent, but I read (and liked) "Them" by the same author

---------- Post added at 06:16 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:14 PM ----------

Youve obviously never been pecked in the cock by an angry goose...

And a lot of people keep geese as watch animals because of the noise and fuss they raise when someone gets too near.

__________________
"Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate,
for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing
hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain
without being uncovered."

The Gospel of Thomas

The_Jazz

SF, how is being "pecked in the cock" not "momentary discomfort"? Sure it hurts. So does getting pinched. It's not like anyone's going to go to the hospital because of it, though.

The issue isn't whether or not they make a bunch of noise. The issue is whether or not they're dangerous. They're definitely not. They're annoying when they're aggressive and they get their shit everywhere, but the only way that they're going to cause any lasting damage is if they pass along a disease, which is true of everything in the animal kingdom and quite a few in the plant kingdom. How many folks have lost a finger to a goose? I'm sure there's one or two, but those are going to be extreme, strange circumstances. I'm willing to bet that there are more folks that lose toes in gardening accidents.

__________________
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - B. Franklin
"There ought to be limits to freedom." - George W. Bush
"We have met the enemy and he is us." - Pogo

Strange Famous

You seriously think a goose peck in the cock wouldnt send you to hospital?

_

There is a serious point that is perhaps being missed. I dont like animals and I suspect there are others like me. I feel intimidated by any loud, aggressive animal. I dont make a rational judgment about the level of injuries it can cause, it sets me on edge and when you feel intimidated you are forced one of two ways - either you back off or an inappropriately violent response is triggered on your own part.

People should be free to walk around without lose dogs baring their teeth and snapping at them. People should free to walk around with geese (and I dont know your own background, but I grew up in a fairly rural area and I can assure you an angry goose CAN be very loud, and will go for a man and peck at you in some circumstances... while it wont killl you, if you already are nervous around wild beasts it can be very unsettling)

_

One thing that really angers me is the selfishness of SOME dog owners, who will let their animals run off the lead in public, and when their pet is baring its teeth and barking aggressively at someone who is obviously scared they make some blase comment like "oh, he wont hurt you"

If these people are too irresponsible to keep their dogs under control in public I submit, and I mean this, that these dogs are no longer entitled to any protection themselves. If a dog can bare its teeth at me, I should have an equal right to drive it off with a couple of strong blows of a stick.

__________________
"Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate,
for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing
hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain
without being uncovered."

The Gospel of Thomas

The_Jazz

Yes. I wouldn't go to the hospital if I got cockpunched by a friend - which happens every once in a while. Why do you think you would? If the pain was bad enough, I would go to see if I'd ruptured something, but I doubt that the result would be that bad. Seriously.

And I've been bitten by gooses before. As seen in post #9. It's not fun, but it's not the end of the world. The worst thing I've ever seen is a bruise that faded in a week. They don't have teeth.

__________________
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - B. Franklin
"There ought to be limits to freedom." - George W. Bush
"We have met the enemy and he is us." - Pogo

citadel

I know a guy who delivered newspapers as a kid and had problems with dogs from time to time. His theory was that a lot of people discipline thier dogs with a rolled up newspaper, so the smell of a whole bag of them approaching reminds the dog of getting hit.

I agree with that. I was envisioning some much more involved attacks.

Baraka_Guru

How to Avoid a Dog Bite : The Humane Society of the United States



To be sure, the "stern and masterful gaze" is a challenge. If you use that option, be prepared for a fight.



Those people should be disciplined with a bag of newspapers.

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

Strange Famous

No offence, but thats a load of bollocks.

If a dog runs at me baring teeth, *I* am supposed to act meek? Supposed to give him my clothes to eat, act like a bitch while he disrespects me and claims he's dominant over me?

Thats a joke.

If a dog runs up and is threatening me, it has FORFITTED its right to humane treatment. There is no reason I should hold back from issuing maximum violence to defend myself. We are talking about an animal, not a person.

If the owner doesnt want their dog to get hurt, either keep it under control or train it.

People letting dogs run wild is the most prevalent form of anti social behaviour in society today and it is about time something is done about it. If I am in a public place and some dog runs at me, I refuse to cower like a weakling because the lobbying group of selfish dog owners decrees it. I will certainly kick the dog and send its on its way if it threatens me, and if it comes back for me I'll up the ante.

__________________
"Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate,
for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing
hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain
without being uncovered."

The Gospel of Thomas

Baraka_Guru

No offense taken. This is coming from the Humane Society, and probably animal psychologists. If you want to challenge the reasoning, try these guys: Animal Behavior Society Web Site

Not if you want to avoid a fight. This is about avoiding a fight with a dog. I don't see why you take that lightly. It's no joke. Would you suggest otherwise to a 9-year-old girl up against an aggressive adult male Rottweiler?

Like I said, it's your choice. If you want to fight the thing, have at it. Do you carry weapons with you for this purpose? You're going to be at a disadvantage to many breeds who'd be aggressive enough to go after an adult male human. Also be aware that dogs have a strong sense of fear. They read body language well.

Shit happens. Few dogs come fully trained, and mistakes happen. This is about being prepared.

You're afraid to be seen as a weakling in front of a dog? Whaaat? It's not like it's some guy who might kick sand in your face and steal your girl. Don't get yourself seriously hurt because you're protecting your ego. Just don't.

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

Strange Famous

Yes, dogs can sense fear...and I always feel nervous around aggressive dogs. This is why you have to talk yourself into an aggressive frame of mind, so out of your fear comes hostility... and then the dog can either back off or if he wants to have a go, get a good kick in the fucking arse.

__________________
"Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate,
for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing
hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain
without being uncovered."

The Gospel of Thomas

Plan9

Wait a minute... just how did I get this cool patch again?

...TFP BEAR HUNTERS' PATCH...

__________________
Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."

Strange Famous

I never got my patch at all

__________________
"Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate,
for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing
hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain
without being uncovered."

The Gospel of Thomas

Plan9

Oh snap! You hear that, KirStang?

__________________
Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."

citadel

I've never had a dog, but I've heard the "rolled up newspaper" discipline method on a regular basis from various sources. I wasn't endorsing it as a great way to keep Spot in line or anything.

Ourcrazymodern?

Spread Happiness. Animals won't attack you, legalities aside. Do dogs smell fear? Do geese smell at all? If you feel safe & well, animals worship you.

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BE JUST AND FEAR NOT

Strange Famous

i just keep saying and thinking stupid things at the moment

__________________
"Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate,
for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing
hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain
without being uncovered."

The Gospel of Thomas