Couple shoplifted $5 million - tracking device - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Xazy · 02-24-2011, 05:38 AM

Quote:

PORTLAND -- Safeway officials say they have proof that a local couple stole more than $5 million in merchandise from stores in the Portland Metro area over the past several years.
Police arrested Richard Lavern Remington, 52, and Angela Rose Evans, 32, on Tuesday and the couple was arraigned in Multnomah County Circuit Court Wednesday.
The probable cause affidavit showed that Safeway began formally tracking the pair last November after suspicions surfaced they had been shoplifting.
Evans told police that the couple stole mostly common items like shampoos, razors, Rogaine, teeth whiteners, conditioners to batteries, DVDs and CDs, according to the affidavit, which also said that Remington stole DVDs on 22 different dates since November.
The court documents said that store surveillance cameras showed Remington involved in 103 thefts between Nov. 19 and Jan. 14, and that Evans was present in more than half of those incidents.
Investigators said the couple would go to several Safeway stores a day and shoplift. They actually used a shopping list for the thefts provided by a a suspect still being sought.
Safeway security officer Trent Drucker estimates that Remington stole $400,000 a year in merchandise over several years, totaling $5 million over the span of thefts.
On Nov. 19, Safeway security officials placed a tracking device on a van driven by the couple. Whenever the van was driven to a Safeway, surveillance videos were carefully scrutinized.
In the weeks following, Safeway officials created a spreadsheet of locations and thefts, which they presented to Portland police. The couple was arrested outside a Safeway store in Portland's Woodstock neighborhood.
Both suspects remained in jail after their arraignment. Their next court appearance was scheduled for Feb. 25.
Remington had an outstanding felony parole violation. He was accused of organized retail theft and multiple first-degree theft charges.
Evans was also accused of organized retail theft and multiple counts of first-degree theft.

I find this to be an interesting story for a number of reasons. The first that they allowed so much theft before going to the police so they can handover so much evidence. I have no issue with this, it is just their decision in how to proceed.

The second and the bigger issue for me is the tracking device. I find it smart inventive, and potentially illegal. I do not even know if it can be admissible in court or not. True they were not working as an agent for the police so maybe it is. Also does the store have potential criminal concerns for putting it on.

Plan9 · 02-24-2011, 05:42 AM

Quick, let's have KirStang chime in about the 4th Amendment and tracking devices.

LordEden · 02-24-2011, 05:55 AM

Are tracking devices listed under the same rules as wiretaps? I would think you would just need a warrant to do this, but I don't know shit about the judicial system except that you don't throw plastic lawn chairs at off duty police officers.

They probably waited to either see if it was a shoplifting ring or get it up to the level of crime that they could put them away for awhile.

KirStang · 02-24-2011, 06:20 AM

Ask and ye shall receive:

The Government's New Right to Track Your Every Move With GPS - TIME

Quote:

Government agents can sneak onto your property in the middle of the night, put a GPS device on the bottom of your car and keep track of everywhere you go. This doesn't violate your Fourth Amendment rights, because you do not have any reasonable expectation of privacy in your own driveway — and no reasonable expectation that the government isn't tracking your movements.

Read more: The Government's New Right to Track Your Every Move With GPS - TIME

but see United States v. Maynard, 615 F.3d 544 (D.C. Cir. 2010)

Quote:

Last month, in United States v. Maynard, the U.S. Court of Appeals for the D.C. Circuit held that the Fourth Amendment "reasonable search" requirement applies to police when they track the movements of a person's car via an attached GPS device. In so holding, the D.C. Circuit joined a growing list of federal appellate courts that have opined on both sides of the question whether GPS-tracking constitutes a "search" for purposes of the Fourth Amendment's prohibition against unreasonable searches and seizures.

http://www.eff.org/files/filenode/US...d_decision.pdf

(a) Depends on what jurisdiction you're in.

and

(b) it ostensibly was not a state actor, although you can make an agency argument. Under what I've studied in section 1983 "state actor" law, this would not suffice to become state action and invoke 4th Amendment protection (1983 is civil, whereas this is criminal).

Finally, there is always room to study each case and draw parallels on the facts and reasoning. I somehow doubt a judge would be very sympathetic to a couple who stole $5 mil worth of goods.

bum4evr · 02-24-2011, 11:06 AM

Quote:

On Nov. 19, Safeway security officials placed a tracking device on a van driven by the couple.

but that was not the government placing a tracking device - it was safeway security - they dont have any more authority then a normal citizen. Especially when placing a tracking device on your vehicle which would be considered private property. Perhaps when the vehicle is on safeway property they might get away with that but once the vehicle leaves then they are violation of privacy laws.

That would be like wal-mart placing a tracking device on every customers vehicle because they want to collect data on every store you visit.

I dont see how they can legaly do that.

If I suspect my wife is cheating on me with my neighbor can I place a tracking device on his car?

The_Jazz · 02-24-2011, 11:26 AM

Well, I don't see how it's necessarily illegal under property laws. Safeway didn't damage the car (that's been reported; it's a different story if they did). They didn't share the information they gathered with anyone but law enforcement. And they did it to protect their own property. I don't see how they necessarily need permission to do this. I also don't see how it's any different than them hiring a private investigator to follow these folks.

There's a big difference with your Wal-Mart example. Wal-Mart isn't tracking you to protect their property. Their data would most likely end up being sold, and that would most definitely violate lots of privacy laws.

KirStang · 02-24-2011, 12:09 PM

Yea that's the argument that Safeway will probably make: You have no legitimate expectation of privacy while travelling on public roadways and public shopping centers.

Zeraph · 02-24-2011, 12:17 PM

$5 million doesn't sound right at all. I don't think even a good thief could steal that amount in that time. And these were bad thieves (they got caught altho tracking device wtf.)

I'm really getting sick of this kind of thing. There is now no such thing as innocent until proven guilty. My friend is in jail without bail, I mean automatically, he hasn't been sentenced or seen a judge or anything.

This is the kind of thing that makes me respect police or any government authority less and less. I used to respect them a lot (whole family full of police, firemen, and military).

The_Jazz · 02-24-2011, 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KirStang

Yea that's the argument that Safeway will probably make: You have no legitimate expectation of privacy while travelling on public roadways and public shopping centers.

There's no law prohibiting this - that's the argument they'd make if the defendants challenge it. Remember, this is a private entity doing this and a corporate "person". Unless you're stalking someone, it's not illegal to put a tracking device on their car. It's perfectly legal to photograph them on your property and follow them afterwards. Of course, if the theives had discovered the tracking device, they would have been well within their rights to destroy it.

If you take the "corporate" portion out of the equation, I don't see where this is that big a deal. So long as it's confined to catching those suspected of illegal acts, I don't have a problem with this.

ASU2003 · 02-24-2011, 01:28 PM

$5 million would be $2666 per day, every day for 5 years. That seems like quite a lot.

They should have used one of those shopping cart parking lot stopping sensors that would notify security when they came into the parking lot.

The_Jazz · 02-24-2011, 01:41 PM

If this is a full time job and they're hitting multiple stores per day, it doesn't seem that farfetched to me, especially if they're after the higher ticket items, like alcohol and pharmacy items.

MSD · 02-25-2011, 04:01 PM

Yeah, batteries and razors are expensive and don't take up much space. If I wore cargo pants, I could probably walk around with $1000 of razors and not even look that bulky.

Fire · 03-01-2011, 07:55 PM

took a bail recovery agents class a few years back, and found it was amazing how lax the laws often actually are with regards to tracking- especially if it is not a gov. agency involved- You may think that "they " cant legally watch, track, and make notes of you, but you would, dependent on your state of residence, likely be amazed....

02-24-2011, 05:42 AM	#2 (permalink)
Plan9 I Confess a Shiver	Quick, let's have KirStang chime in about the 4th Amendment and tracking devices. __________________ *Whatever you can carry.* "You should not drink... and bake."

02-24-2011, 11:26 AM	#6 (permalink)
The_Jazz Asshole Administrator Location: Chicago	Well, I don't see how it's necessarily illegal under property laws. Safeway didn't damage the car (that's been reported; it's a different story if they did). They didn't share the information they gathered with anyone but law enforcement. And they did it to protect their own property. I don't see how they necessarily need permission to do this. I also don't see how it's any different than them hiring a private investigator to follow these folks. There's a big difference with your Wal-Mart example. Wal-Mart isn't tracking you to protect their property. Their data would most likely end up being sold, and that would most definitely violate lots of privacy laws. __________________ "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - B. Franklin "There ought to be limits to freedom." - George W. Bush "We have met the enemy and he is us." - Pogo

02-24-2011, 12:17 PM	#8 (permalink)
Zeraph Banned Location: The Cosmos	$5 million doesn't sound right at all. I don't think even a good thief could steal that amount in that time. And these were bad thieves (they got caught altho tracking device wtf.) I'm really getting sick of this kind of thing. There is now no such thing as innocent until proven guilty. My friend is in jail without bail, I mean automatically, he hasn't been sentenced or seen a judge or anything. This is the kind of thing that makes me respect police or any government authority less and less. I used to respect them a lot (whole family full of police, firemen, and military). Last edited by Zeraph; 02-24-2011 at 12:22 PM..

02-24-2011, 01:41 PM	#11 (permalink)
The_Jazz Asshole Administrator Location: Chicago	If this is a full time job and they're hitting multiple stores per day, it doesn't seem that farfetched to me, especially if they're after the higher ticket items, like alcohol and pharmacy items. __________________ "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - B. Franklin "There ought to be limits to freedom." - George W. Bush "We have met the enemy and he is us." - Pogo

03-01-2011, 07:55 PM	#13 (permalink)
Fire Warrior Smith Location: missouri	took a bail recovery agents class a few years back, and found it was amazing how lax the laws often actually are with regards to tracking- especially if it is not a gov. agency involved- You may think that "they " cant legally watch, track, and make notes of you, but you would, dependent on your state of residence, likely be amazed.... __________________ Thought the harder, Heart the bolder, Mood the more as our might lessens

02-24-2011, 01:28 PM	#10 (permalink)
ASU2003 immoral minority Location: Back in Ohio	$5 million would be $2666 per day, every day for 5 years. That seems like quite a lot. They should have used one of those shopping cart parking lot stopping sensors that would notify security when they came into the parking lot.

02-25-2011, 04:01 PM	#12 (permalink)
MSD The sky calls to us ... Super Moderator Location: CT	Yeah, batteries and razors are expensive and don't take up much space. If I wore cargo pants, I could probably walk around with $1000 of razors and not even look that bulky.