Dear Canadians: You are no longer welcome at TFP
 

It's not anything personal, but it's time for an intervention. Clearly you guys have a problem and as your friends, it's time for us to help you deal with your issue.Study: Canada is most Web-addicted nation


So clearly you guys need some help and I'm just going to rip off the bandaid. I guess this means no more Mounties, Tim Hortons or talking about how much the Habs suck, but we'll let you back in when you can show a little more self-control.

Hugs n kisses,

me

The hot chicks can stay though, right?

I'm not letting you ban Settie!

might wanna be careful with this, jazz...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...ics/canada.jpg

There is no such thing as a Web addiction. The Web is the new commons, eh? :mapleleaf:

What happens if I start talking about Hockey and Molsen instead of Football and Miller Light? Will I get banned too???

TFP just wouldn't be the same without random poppings-up of Fly's ass...

What about honorary Canadians? *Sniff* *Sniff*

ahahhahha.....watch it Jazz.......i'm coming for you eh.


:mapleleaf:

Would that be called getting Fly-rolled?

oh i roll alright........


just doobies though.....hahhaha

hehe...

Since I was born in Maine and my mother was from Missouri, as are half my relatives, this ban doesn't apply to me, right?
I don't twitter and I no longer use MSN or Yahoo messenger, I only chat on Facebook now.
I am slightly addicted to Lexulous on Facebook, Facebook, Fark and TFP.
I used to Netflix until they stopped allowing me to pay by Paypal. My Paypal account is only funded by my bank and Netflix blocks eChecks. So, screw them.

It's fricken cold for a lot of the year... what do you expect us to do, other than log on.

But...but...but I would miss them!

I mean come on, we would lose our settie, and that my friends is a tragedy!

Molson Canadian 67 is a dollar off for a 6 pack at the LCBO this week. I got one of those and a bottle of Crown Royal (750 ml. in the blue bag!) for New Years.

I hate to go off topic, but it might get more attention in this thread: how 'bout we organize a TFP Curling Team?

Now you're talking BadNick. You want to get 18,000 fans into an arena? Want to get great ratings on a Sunday afternoon (usually the death period for televised sports - unless you're American i.e. don't get me going about weekend afternoon NHL games)? organize a bonspiel, and put it on TV.

Oh yeah.

iiiiiiiiiii

Is this perchance Fly?

edit: it was too powerful for photobucket to contain

They've trained their polar bears to go after our wimmens!!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/09...polar_bear.jpg

yeah, that'd be a fucking disaster, all right.......:no:

Without Canadians, the net would be boring.

Fremen.......that is not my ass.


and joe.........go piss up a rope,you love my ass too........

I love Canadians.

If you make them go, I'll have to go too!

Canada won't let me in.

What?!?

Then I'm taking my Crokinole board and Chesterfield and going home!

I LOVE STRANGE BREW. Guess I'm turning Canadian eh.

Nooo!

Uh...what's a Crokinole board?

The Canadians were The Most fun people in Cancun Mexico two years running when we were there.

You Betcha!!! Let them do whatever they wish and never treat them badly. Remember they live in the frozen tundra. And they make tfp a better place!

canadeans - cancun = FUN!!!

All right I'll stay. :)

Crokinole is what Canadian parents threaten their bored children with.

Seriously though: Crokinole

Crokinole looks quite interesting.

Also, why are there a group of expatriate Canadians living in China?

I've seen the internet. It needs more maple syrup.

Everything is better with maple syrup.

Generally, I love Canadians. I have many beloved relatives in Canada.

But what about those fat guys from Quebec who wear those tiny speedo's at the beach? I don't get that part.

Fat guys from Quebec in tiny red speedos is essential. It like adding cayenne pepper to rice pudding. Without it the day would be boring and you wouldn't have anything to talk about in the bar afterward. Just sit back and enjoy the spectacle.

I've been constructing my own crokinole board for a while now. They cost too much in the games stores.


Building a crokinole board

Crokinole Board Project

i like canadians more than i like americans.

whats with the canuck hating in here?!?

Those guys are from France or have been corrupted in France. They are not representative of Canada or even Quebec.

Good, my plot to get all the Canadians in one spot is working....

i can see you rubbing your hands together with an evil smirk on your face...

you guys are working right into his trap...stop being so canadian!

ahhh uhhh!!! Another denial that Canadians are also Americans.

http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/h...havremount.jpg

Havre, Montana - 1999

This is so wrong!

You need to make them log on more often - gives us Finns a better chance in hockey AND curling, if more Canadians stay online.

I thought Canada was a U.S. state

Don't feel too bad. 15% of U.S. citizens probably think the same.

It's better that way. Staying under the radar is a good thing.

How can that be? We're too socialist.

Sorry.

Some call it a "Web addiction."

I call it six months of winter.

two solitudes.

I think what totally freaks out some (key word some) Americans is that we speak the same language (for the most part), may even have the same accent, more or less the same cultural make-up, yet we have no desire to be Americans. I think it's a War of 1812 thing. If you guys had of just left us alone, we might have joined you (even the British thought that in 1812), but after 1812, all bets were off.

Thanks guys for helping to forge our nation.

:)

Truth be told (and I've been told this by Americans) that people the North Eastern US states have more in common with people in Toronto and Ontario than they do with Americans in the south and the bible belt. At one time a group of guys from our office in Boston were working in the T.O. office for a year and they told me they quite liked it and felt at home whereas a couple of them who had worked in Atlanta felt like sqare pegs in round holes.

Ditto those in BC and Washington state.

Or those in the Maritime provinces and the Atlantic states.

Kirk... I am convinced it's a weather thing. The northern states have similar weather to Canada. The southern states, and their warm climates, breed a different social and political beast.

(Posted with love.)

Geographically, the regionalism here runs from B.C. south to Eugene, Oregon, although some suggest it goes even further, all the way down to Northern California (especially Humboldt County ;)) I think you could pretty safely lump everyone on the west side of the Cascade Mountains together and they'd be fine with that.

See also: Ecotopia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Cascadia (independence movement) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)

We're like Fire and Ice.

That's a good read for any interested Canadian (or American)...

i'm too fucking polite to cop an attitude here..........


i wanna hooks it up with snowy one day too..........she's the ticket,even if she is a Yank...:D

I'm too fucking impolite to not say anything...I might be stoned or something.

Snowy's not a fucking yank.

It's probably a lot like this actually (though you might be able to extend Jesusland into Alberta....depending on who you talk to).

http://www.timkeel.com/timkeel/jesusland_orig.jpg

Yeah, you're probably right.


If they, for example, consider Obama a socialist, they'd probably accuse me of being a Stalinist.

hah, never had disco phase was my favorite! :D

lol at the pic james

There's got to be something wrong with that map...it represents that I'm in Canada right now! Another dream dashed.

Welcome eh!

Remember to take your shoes off at the door.

:)

Minnesotans are just slightly better dressed Canadians, OCM.

Definitely need to make Alberta green in that map.

Gentlemen,
Lest we forget, Quebec exisits. That would skew the otherwise excellent map.
It would probably ignore the rest of the map and overestimate it's own
importance.

I see Quebec on the map.

Truth be told, Quebec is a big part of the reason that Canada is more liberal than the United states.

Quebec tends to pull the ROC a bit towards the left.

Truth.

Buffalo doesn't think too much of us...
 

So, a columnist in Buffalo is disillusioned by us Canucks... What I don't get is why Americans get hung up on tipping so much. I find the pre-occupation to be bit obsessive.


Disillusioned by northern neighbors

Updated: January 9, 2011, 7:27 AM

It is a good thing that the World Junior hockey tournament did not last any longer. Another week, and we might have had a border war.

Even as it was, I think we saw a different side of the normally placid, polite, patient good neighbors we thought we knew. Buffalo was invaded by a sea of red. The tide has receded, leaving behind some hard feelings, shattered stereotypes and an aftertaste as bad as the backwash from a warm Molson.

Whatever happened to the polite, humble, rule-respecting folks we thought we knew? Where were the civic-minded citizens who dutifully wait at the street corner when the traffic light is red, even when no cars are coming? Wherever you are, we want you back.

I am not sure if it was the insufferable sense of hockey superiority, or the pre-and post-game beers, but this tournament brought out the inner lout in a lot of Canadians. Arrogant, loud, drunk, obnoxious — if I didn’t know better, I would have thought that they were, well, Americans.

From the guy arrested for punching an American fan at the USA-Canada game, to the sea of red that adopted any team that the USA played, to the drunken red-clad louts at the New Year’s Eve ball drop (staggering, middle-aged, red-clad lady I saw clutching a half-empty bottle of vodka, this means you), to the legions of lousy tippers at bars and restaurants — a lot of Canadians wore out their welcome long before Russia shattered their gold medal dreams. Believe me, there were not a lot of Buffalonians crying over that outcome.

It was, well, dismaying. I have always enjoyed the peaceful co-existence and mutually advantageous relationship we have with our cold-climate cohorts.

Buffalonians like our weekends in big-city Toronto. We enjoy the better side of Niagara Falls. Many of us appreciate cross-border culture, from the Shaw Festival to the Canadian ballet. We relish pounding on Toronto’s hockey team, one of the Sabres’ few longtime whipping boys. And we forgive Torontonians the sterile Rogers Centre, as it is the closest viewing site for WNY’s legion of Yankee fans. We even overlook their use of “eh” as punctuation and their affection for the underwhelming Peace Bridge.

In return, Canadians like our 4 a.m. bar closing and our wings and the bargains at our malls and our City of Good Neighbors affability. As a demonstration of our generosity, we even share our football team with Toronto — although as gifts go, it ranks with the holiday fruitcake.

Make no mistake, we were more than happy the past couple of weeks to have Canadians sleep in our hotel rooms, eat in our restaurants, drink in our bars and shop in our malls. We love the uncommon smell of outside dollars. All we ask is that you do not be obnoxious about it.

In some cases, it was too much to ask. I talked to workers at a downtown bar/restaurant that will remain nameless, to protect the place’s cross-border business. By tournament’s end, they had disdain for all things emblazoned with a Maple Leaf. The main complaint, and this is not new, is a lot of Canadian hockey fans are awful tippers.

“They would have a few beers and leave like a quarter or 50 cents,” said one bartender, who for job security reasons asked that his name not be used. “Servers said they were getting two-dollar tips on a$25 check.”

OK, chronically bad tipping is not cause for a diplomatic crisis. But multiply it by a few thousand visitors, and you leave behind a lot of irritation.

So I think it is a good thing that this thing is over. I look forward to getting back to our usual, cozy, mutually beneficial relationship. Aside from everything else, it is tough to stay mad at the nation that gave us Molson’s and Labatt’s, eh?

desmonde@buffnews.com


Disillusioned by northern neighbors - Donn Esmonde - The Buffalo News



Meanwhile, on the north side of the border, reaction is a bit wounded...

Hockey fans feel high-sticked by columnist
Local News
By MONIQUE BEECH , STANDARD STAFF
Posted 2 hours ago


A column written by an American scribe taking aim at the "sea of red" that swept into Buffalo during the world junior hockey tournament has some fans this side of the border seeing red.

In a Sunday column, Donn Esmonde of the Buffalo News wrote that several people in the U.S. border city were taken aback by uncharacteristically loud, brazen, drunken Canadians who acted more like "Americans" during the 11-day hockey tournament, which ended Jan. 5.

Esmonde cited examples of a Canadian fan punching an American during the USA-Canada game, being "lousy tippers" at area bars and restaurants and suffering from a major hockey superiority complex.

The international event brought out a "different side of the normally placid, polite and patient good neighbors we thought we knew," Esmonde wrote.

Several indignant hockey fans in Niagara, many of whom crossed the border for one or more games, told The Standard that Esmonde's piece highlights just a few bad apples.

Many compared the passionate maple leaf hockey fervour to Americans' rowdy zeal for football and baseball.

Team Canada devotee Dave White, who attended six junior tournament hockey games, said the majority of Canadian and American hockey fans were respectful and well-behaved.

"I think (Esmonde) is picking out the worst things that happened," said White, who attended games with his wife, Tracey, and sons Nathan, 16, and Devin, 12.

"Obviously when the Americans come over here and we have a big thing going on, we don't put them down. I think there's a lot of good things that happened over there, too, right?"

Some Niagara residents pointed the finger back at Buffalonians, who they say could have treated Canadians, who accounted for about 75% of tickets sold at most games, a little better during the tournament.

Several readers who attended games cited examples of Buffalo police being "excessive" in their authority, parking lot operators gouging visitors with rates of up to $60 and restaurants and pubs charging cover or 10% exchange rates even though the U.S. and Canadian dollars were virtually at parity.

n Jeff Blay's view, Americans just don't understand Canadians in general and their religious devotion to hockey in particular.

Buffalonians especially don't have a lot of interest in getting to know their cross-border cousins, said Blay, a 21-year-old public relations intern with the OHL's Niagara IceDogs who attended a few games.

"I go to Florida and California a lot and they're interested and they like to hear about Canadian culture, but in Buffalo they hate it and it's just a 40-minute drive from the border," Blay said.

"When it comes to hockey, they definitely think it's a little ridiculous how much we like it. But I guess it's because they don't respect the sport as much as we do."

In his column, Esmonde takes great pains to call the relationship between Buffalonians and Canadians a "peaceful coexistence" and "mutually advantageous relationship." He writes that many people from his city enjoy going to Toronto and going to the Shaw Festival and other cultural events in Ontario.

While many downtown restaurant and bar workers in Buffalo were glad to see the red tide recede, Esmonde wrote that Canadians brought in a lot of "outside dollars."

In an interview, Esmonde said he wasn't surprised his column ruffled a few feathers this side of the border. Esmonde said he wrote the piece as a good-natured poke at Canadians and had a little fun with it.

But Esmonde said his column did capture the mood of several people in Buffalo who "were a little bit put out by some of the behaviour that they saw."

Canadians seemed to be a "little bit too exuberant" rooting against the United States, no matter whom the Americans were playing.

Esmonde said the special relationship between Canada and the U.S. is still intact, despite some rocky times during the hockey tournament.

"Again, it's hockey," Esmonde said. "It's hockey fans. Everybody gets exuberant. Hockey and beer kind of go together sometimes, before and after the games. It's like the old expression after three or four days, fish and visitors start to smell a little bit. After 11 days, I think it's understandable that there might be a little bit of fraying of nerves. I don't think it was an international incident."

Some on this side of the border agreed with Esmonde.

"The writer pretty much nailed this one as even I was surprised at how some Canadians acted ... towards our neighbours to the south," Matt Day of Dunnville wrote on The Standard's Facebook fan page.

"But, after all, this is hockey we're talking about, and it's just common knowledge that Canadians take the sport seriously. We're not normally 'unruly' and I'm glad he specifically mentions that."

Hockey fans feel high-sticked by columnist - St. Catharines Standard - Ontario, CA

I live in a town in Mexico that has a somewhat large Canadian population. Rumor has it a couple Canadians found this place 30 yrs ago and kept their mouth shut about it. This was probably smart on their part. I have a lot of Canadian friends. For the most part they are great group down here and I usually like hanging out with them. Usually. I say usually because just like any other culture they have their own idiosyncrasies. Some are appealing, some not so much. In the same way you can normally pick out the obnoxious American in any airport lounge within mere seconds and inviting a Mexican over to your house for a drink and be an all night experience (and he may get on the phone and invite his whole family to join in on the party) like it or not- some Canadians have habits I find annoying.

For example- going out to dinner with a large group of Canadians can be less then enjoyable. The last time (and I do mean the last time) I went out with a group of Canadians, they were approx. 30 of us and I was one of two Americans in the group. I believe each Canadian requested a separate check. This was fun to watch because most refuse to learn any Spanish and hence did not speak enough to make their intentions clear to the waiter. A lot of the Canadians have taken the attitude of "we're spending a lot of money here, our money keeps this town a float… least "they' could do is learn to speak English." First you're out numbered 500-1, your money may add to the economy but you're not keeping the town running. Second you're in their country and you don't think learning their language might make more sense? Anyway we ordered and, give or take, about 1/2 of the diners decided to try to order items not on the menu. Again the lack of Spanish did not help. Here it's almost odd to find a restaurant that actually has all the items listed on the menu available. Items not on the menu? Umm, no. You're in a small Mexican beach town if you do not like the local food you should either eat at home or drive into Merida, a much larger city, where you can find anything from Sushi to decent Italian. Announcing to the table/restaurant "I hate Mexican food, looks like someone in the kitchen already ate it for lunch and now they're trying to serve it to me" Is not polite and there is a pretty good chance someone will understand your words. When your food does arrive I will not trade plates with you.

When the check arrived it was all on one ticket, what a shock! 30 people with drinks came to about 140 USD, really not bad. I know my meal, with drink, was $4. Most of the Canadians went into panic mode. "Who had what?" "Who owes what?" "How the heck are we supposed to figure this out?" "No kidding, it's all in Spanish (again, big shock!)" Someone, a Canadian, suggested we just divide the bill evenly. That was fine with me but was met with death stares from several people. After 20mins of "what do we do? What do we do?" It was decided to pass the check around the table and each person put in the amount they owed. That led to another 30mins of people requesting change for larger notes so they could pay exactly what they owed. The end result was a huge pile of small bills and a shit load of change. The tray the check arrived on had to be exchanged for a dinner plate and likely weighed about 5lbs. I was second to last and I put in roughly $8 for my meal plus tip. I figured if I paid double it might help offset anyone who short changed on the tip. The last guy to pay was sitting to my left and I noticed, after counting through all the cash for 15mins. And looking at the check he put in $2 for he and his wife's meals and drinks. I asked if it was covered and he assured me it was- complete with tip! I noticed the waiter counting it out and I waited to see his reaction. It did not look good. I went up and asked if it was all accounted for and was told "yes the meal is paid for?" "And the tip?' The man turned, faced me and threw his arms up stating "7 pesos, 7 pesos!" By this time the only other American there had joined me and asked if there was a problem. I told him the tip came out to 7 pesos. We each put in another $15-17 (200 pesos.) I returned to the table and the guy who had the check last asked me if there was some problem. I told him the tip only came out to 7 pesos. He said "yeah, I know I counted to make sure there was a tip." "And you thought on $140 USD check 7 peso was a reasonable tip?" "Really? 7 pesos?" "Yeah, pesos are like dollars to these people." Umm, no dollars are like dollars to these people and the wait staff in most restaurants work solely for tips. And seriously even if pesos were like dollars... $7 on a $140? Are you fucking stupid or insane? People don’t normally tip in Canada, fine I get that. But you’re not in Canada, here the wait staff depends on tips to feed their family. You want to dine out and not tip, move to a country where that is the culture… you know like Canada.

I have list in my head of Canadians I will dine out with but its way less than half of those who live here. Attend a party with them, sure, great. Enjoy a movie out with them, absolutely. Dinner out? At a restaurant? In public?… Yeah that’s not happening… never again. Rather have my balls pounded flat with a wooden mallet. I think it would be less painful and over quicker.

Another thing I will no longer do is invite Canadians over to watch hockey games. I don’t care if I do have one of the few systems that can get the games. Buy your own system; I’ll install it for free. I’ve just had one too many drunken Canadians yell stuff like “in your face, in your fucking face!” At me, in my house while eating my food and drinking my booze in regards to a game I really don’t understand, care to watch or even really like.

There are a lot of things I do enjoy about my Canadian neighbors down here but I’ve had way too many of the above two incidents to enjoy everything about all of them.

Now someone needs to starts a why Americans should either stay home or learn some culture prior to traveling thread. I could write three times the rant I just wrote on Canadians on the subject of dumbass Americans and the stupid fucking things they do. Maybe I’ll start that thread myself after lunch.

Ouch... on the restaurant anecdote. Precisely the reason I often steal away from the table before the check arrives (to dash ? naa lol) but to pay for it without having to do that splitting the bill crap. Last time I did it at the Mongolian Grill (12 people $325 plus tip) and later on some - but not all - the folks threw some dough my way. $140 bucks at a resort? no problem.

On the hockey game? Good times eh? That's what I'm talkin about! In Your Face, IN Your Fuckin' Face! man.

:)

140 at a resort? No way. I do not live in a resort town. I live in a small fishing village. Last time I went to one of the big resorts near Cancun the meals there were around $90 a plate for dinner. Beers at the swim up bar in the pool (good place for a swim up bar) were $10 a can, reg. 12oz can. I (we) ate either in our room/condo w/kitchen or went out to a more reasonable restaurant in Play de Carmen. When I checked out the lady thought there was something wrong with my bill, only had tax on it. She called a manager and they talked it over. I asked if there was a problem. The manager stated "the restaurants and bars haven't added your bill and we're trying to find it." He looked shocked when I told him I hadn't eaten or drank anything from the resort. I asked him if he'd pay $10 for one beer and he looked around a bit and shook his head no. I paid my $32 tax for the week and drove home.

As for hockey.. yep in my face, in my fucking face! Like I'm even rooting for one team or the other. Honestly I only invited them for a few games after they found out I get Shaw Direct and begged. But was done with that after stuff like in my face and being knocked off my on couch by a guy screaming "that's icing the puck! WTF!" I honestly don't know what icing the puck is, isn't always on ice?

oh Tully Tully.... *Sigh* IF the puck is in your defensive zone, and one of your players dumps it out past 2 red lines (inclusive of the opposite team's goal line) this is icing the puck. the on ice official must then whistle the play stopped, and resumes play with a faceoff within the defensive zone of the team that committed the infraction. This penalizes the team for dumping the puck and in effect disrupting the play. the only time that a team can ice the puck, whithout penalty, is when they opposing team has a power-play.

I can understand the excitement that ensued, as it appears that the infraction was not called and I'm sure that the knocking of you off the couch was not intentional, but nonetheless rude if not apologized for. But still, good times! Ah nothing like a good hockey controversy is there?

sorry about the resort reference - my mistake, Canadians often mistake ALL Mexican destinations for resorts. But my point being, at a $140 I would just pay for the cheque. Not sure why these guys were so uptight about it.

You know I really tried to get into the games, thought it would be a good way to meld with the local, heavily Canadian, gringo community here. Not sure if it was the actions of a few while here at the house watching the games or maybe hockey just isn't for me. Either way I'm now onto trying to like socc.. sorry football since all my Mexican friends are completely insane about it. maybe more so then the Canadians about hockey if you can believe that. So far that's not going any better then hockey.


I think part of it is the folks I'm dealing with are all retired and most have no interest in change. Really retired Americans are no different, they just have different things they don't want to change. Most of them have no interest in learning Spanish, which I find odd. If nothing else it's nice to know what people around you are saying. But, meh, to each their own.

I thought about picking up the check but was kind of fascinated watching the whole thing. I'd been out with smaller groups, one/two couples so I'd seen this before. I think I kind of figured with a group this large they'd just divide the check and call it a day. Seriously for some couples who had no drinks it was less then $4 for their total. Turns out they wanted to make damn sure they didn't accidentally pay $4.25 and were willing to spend a lot of time and effort on it.

I made sure the waiter got his tip and decided I've seen enough to know I don't want to do that again.

This is the politest complaint thread ever.

Sorry.

Yeah, my bad too.

Taking my shoes off, & impolitely wondering about who owes what, I have to wonder if our comrades to the north aren't chuckling about this most heartily of all?

Gym Guards Beat Man To Pulp When He Tried To Cancel - The Consumerist

My mind has been blown. All my preconceived notions about Canadians have been crushed.

"Canada, it's like New Jersey only with flannel".

Not sure how the OP will play out. But I'm sure that TFP will remain a vibrant and interesting part of the interweb mix even sans les Canadiens. C'est la vie.

But Tully, I swear that this tipping business is not a universal blind spot in the Kanuckistani population. Though I'll readily admit to not generally dropping change into the paper cups found at fast food chain joints I'll occasionally do so. And more so when seasonally correct. I do find that when in Chinatown greasy spoons here in Toronto dining w my SO and her Chinese kin I tip at about 50% of my normal rate simply because they express horror at the going rate. Regular restaurants are too easy to calculate to not do it. I mean 10% of a bill plus half of 10% is not even calculating in order to get your 15%. And with the chip card credit card machine that offers an automatic % calculator for the mathematically challenged there is just no excuse anywhere. If you are caught short you shouldn't be eating out.

That hullabaloo in your Mexican town sounds just too bizarre. I mean really - a $140 bill plus tip for 30 people and there was a problem? It needed someone to stand up, declare the total and the average divvy, and offer to grab a couple of shots of tequila, go outside, and arm wrestle anyone who wanted to quibble over tossing in their 5 bucks. How hard would it be for someone to do that, dropping a $20 themselves, and loudly declare any overage a thank you to the staff for putting up with the hassle of such a large group of gringo Anglos? FFS, 5 or 6 bucks each without a whimper please. That story is just so weird.

I don't have anything to say about the hockey experience you had. I'll personally get caught up in a national moment such as the Olympics, but the rest of hockey life tends to happen in a world that really doesn't intersect with mine in any meaningful way. I'd ban the impolite drinktards who spoiled your hospitality myself, and I'm Canadian born and bred.

Well I tried to make it clear in my rant it's not every Canadian.. but it certainly is over half. And yes it was bizarre.

People here, people who live here anyway, get used to somethings being freakishly inexpensive. I took a lady out to a movie and dinner in Merida Saturday night. The movie theater we sat in is known as a "VIP" room. All the seats are about like a leather recliner you might have in your home and they electronically recline. There is a small table next to your seat and if you choose a waiter will bring you anything from beer, a mixed drink or even dinner. After the movie we went to an Italian restaurant had an nice meal and drinks. I never added it up but I'd guess the evening costs me less then $75. I know the movie tickets are $7 ea.

Anyway you end up with everyone, US, Canadians and even some Europeans debating or at times trying to barter down the cost of things that most people wouldn't even think about. For example trash here is picked up by independent guys who drive around in crappy pick-ups. You place you garbage bag in front of your house and they'll stop and yell at you to come pay them, you pay they take away your trash. Last summer my maid placed my bag out front one morning, later while I was floating around the pool I heard the garbage guy yelling. I grabbed 10 pesos, the normal fee, and went to pay the guy. He looked at the 10 peso coin and said "no, it's 14 pesos." We had a little back and forth and after a few moments I realized I'm arguing, in the hot sun with a guy over what amounts to 30 cents. I walked over to my truck and grabbed 5 more pesos and gave it to the man and said thanks. I've been paying that same guy 15 pesos ever since, he picks up my trash whether I'm here or not and he knows I'll always pay him if i missed him. Why was I debating about .30 cents? I have no freaking clue.

I will say one other thing back on the topic of Canadians and the "check." While it's true the majority of Canadians will not tip they also want to pay they share, exactly their share. The older they are the more likely this is to be true. I can not tell you the number of times I've been having breakfast somewhere and a Canadian will sit down, start talking and order coffee or juice. Most places I eat the coffee or juice is a 4-6 peso item. I don't think one has ever left without insisting on paying for their share. it's usually something like "I owe for the coffee, it's 5 pesos" "I got it they'll just add it to my check." "No, no I ordered it I'll pay for it. I only have a 10 peso coin, do you have change?" I always think "sure I've got a 5 peso coin or whatever, wouldn't want you walking away from that .38 cents you owe." Of course I'm the guy who, last summer, debated over 4 peso in the hot sun for several minutes... so what do I know?

Regarding the hockey nonsense... I have always been uncomfortable around folk that yell at the television. I can get excited over a game but, really, the ref can't hear you, so shut up about it already.

Canadians as a group may be "practically perfect in every way" but we, like most nations, have our odd traits. ;)

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When you make $2.13 an HOUR (Like cinnamongirl makes) and your entire 40 an hour a week check comes out to crap, then getting a tip makes a hell of a difference.

I'd LOVE to be able to put a sign up at the door of restaurants, "Our servers make $2.13 an HOUR, so FUCKING TIP YOU CHEAP BASTARDS."

People who don't tip, suck. Period.

*****

Sing it with me...

"Hello threadjack, my frieeeeeeeeeeeeeeenddddddddddddd...."

This is where the thread gets off topic...

Well Americans (US citizens) are "practically perfect in every way" but it doesn't stop them from stopping me in the street and asking some pretty dumb ass questions. Yes, I know you're from the US I recognize that (southern, Jersey, Mid-west whatever) accent, that (NASCAR, Mets, Eagles whatever) shirt. Here's some sample answers I've recently given-

"No, I don't care what your buddies back in Omaha told you; you can not go into the pharmacy and buy (codeine, Oxycontin, or any other controlled substance.) Here in Mexico you can not buy anything without a prescription. Used to be if you wanted anti-biotics you could buy it if you knew what you needed. Since last year they changed that and you need an Rx for them now too."

"No, I don't know where you can score some (weed, blow, speed, "X," whatever.) You can likely find that at your next stop in Cozumel. But be warned- the guy selling it to you is possibly working with a cop who he's going to point you out to, the cop will then take the drugs (which are likely fake) and shake you down for every dollar you have including anything the ATM will give you. The cop will then give the drugs back to the "dealer" and they'll run the scam on the next moron."

"There is no "red light" district. This is a very small, very catholic and very conservative Mexican fishing village. If you care to miss your cruise ship out of here there are a few brothels in Merida. They open around 10pm and close at dawn. They are rather well known for taking in gringos and with the help of the police separating them large amounts of cash, like in the 1000's of dollars. There are no Donkeys show etc here, this is not TJ and it's not 1975."

"No, the waitress is not going give you a blow job if you tip her big or offer to pay her for it. Ask her, if she understands your question, it's very likely her father, husband and all her brothers will be here shortly to help you find your way back to the ship."

"Yes, you can eat here. No, the food will not kill you."

Other then answer stupid questions from my fellow US citizens I get to hear such great comments as-

"Hey this would be a nice place if it didn't have all these Mexicans around." Hey, shit for brains, you're in Mexico... probably going to be Mexicans here.

Or the middle age, obviously southern man, who held up a large handful of peso notes once asked his lady friend/wife(?) "Wonder how much this is in real money?" Moron, that is "real money" if you'd like I'll take it off your hands.

Most people are fine but it's that 10-20% that stand out by acting like complete nimrods. Sometimes I just hang my head and wish most US citizens would stay within 100 miles of their homes. Most of the time I just look at my back door and if the cruise ship is in town I avoid the pier area.

Sorry should have started a new thread.

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Yea, I don't get the no tipping thing. Especially when someone knows that's the standard custom. Maybe folks in Canada get paid working in food service, no idea. Here and in the states, no tip, no income. Like I said earlier... want to dine out and not tip? Dine in a place where that's the custom.. like Canada. Basically if you don't want to tip, stay home.

---------- Post added at 07:44 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:37 PM ----------

Look you want to stay home and not tip, fine. Seems to be the standard custom. A lot of places don't work, have never worked the way you're suggesting. I would not go to another country and disregard a custom such as this anymore then I would travel to the Middle East and start asking people to look at the bottom of my feet or shake my left hand.

When you travel it is usually standard to adhere to the customs of the places you travel, not demand the visited country change to your customs.

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I do not have data on the subject but from what I've seen of the Canadians around here less then 50% of them tip 15%. The rest tip more like 1.5% or not at all. You come here and tip 15% I'd have no problem with that and you'd probably be fine eating in the restaurant if you wanted to return.

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I said before I'm simply basing my opinion on what I see here. I never once said "all Canadians," not once. In fact I went out of my way to say it's not all. As for my math, feel free to come down and check out the area out yourself. I think after asking around and talking to people you probably find I'm being generous in my math. It's likely more then 10-20% of US citizens who come down here and make fools of themselves too. I ask people what they see, friends, waiters and yes Canadians. The night I had dinner with 30 or so Canadians the last guy with the check made sure there was a 7 peso tip on a $140 USD check. I asked him, in a polite way, "WTF?" His answer was that was a perfectly fine tip. I drove another guy to the airport one afternoon to pick up his wife. He had a couple drinks and a hamburger, the bill came to over 20 USD, his tip was less then a one dollar. This isn't a one time here and there thing. I see it nearly every time. I think part of it here is (and I said this before) people get used to things being really cheap, that's just the way it is here. I know people who let their maid go because she wanted a 3 dollar a day raise. They're from Georgia (US, not Russia) and they later wished they hadn't let her go, finding a good replacement wasn't easy.

It's not about Canadians or Americans (Which a ton of americans don't tip, I've seen it and it sucks too) not tipping, it's about NOT FUCKING TIPPING.

Yes, the system is fucked up.

Yes, it's not your "fault" it's fucked up.

No, you don't *have* to tip. (North Carolina is not a "Right to tip" state which means that it isn't against the law to be cheap fucking bastards.)

You know what? You could be a decent human being and give FIVE FUCKING DOLLARS to someone that just spent an hour catering to your every need.

You don't have $5 bucks to give to the waitron that waited (I'm excluding bad servers)? Don't Eat Out.

Go get something out of a fast food window. Don't come into a restaurant, order $50 worth of drinks and food, spend an hour in there and give the waitron a $1.

You sir (As the bad tipper), SUCK. You basically said to another human being, "You are below me and I have the ability to help you out, but I'm not going to. I am better than you and because I don't have to work your job, I am going to shit all over you with a big smile on my face. If you EVEN think of giving me some lip over this, I will complain to your manager and have you fired for thinking you are even close to being as important as myself. Fuck you, I AM BETTER THAN YOU IN ALL WAYS."

American, Canadian, whatever. You don't tip, you suck.

iiiiiiiiiii

Settie, waiters don't get a minimum wage of $10.25/hour. They get $8.90/hour. That's what the law says.

Jeez. apparently along with getting rid of the Canadians, we're going to have to get rid of the Mexicans too. Maybe even the Signaporans. While we're at it, I hate New Yorkers, so we'll get rid of those. And those crazies out on the West Coast. And don't get me started on those Southerners.

Tell you what, let's get rid of all the non-Chicagoans. And by that I mean get rid of the suburbanites too. Everybody else sucks.

Are you my dog or are you my ashtray?

Well I only hate two kinds of people.. Racists and Italians.

lol, I see that the tipping topic is dear to American's hearts. Well, there seems to be a reason for that (i guess, with the paltry wage identified by Eden - unbelievable really) but the typical practice for most people from around here (Toronto) is an even 15%. I haven't heard of anybody doing less. Although the custom is that the tip % is calculated on the PRE-TAX amount on the cheque. The automated ATM devices used by most restaurants now calculated the pre-set 15% on the taxes in amount. But I don't quibble over a couple of bucks.

So, the Taxes/Hockey convergence seems to be carried on in this additional column related to the Buffalo Junior Hockey tournament:

Kelly: An unfortunate world junior misunderstanding - thestar.com


An unfortunate world junior misunderstanding

Buffalo, before this thing gets all War of 1812, let’s sit down and have a little talk.

You were good enough to host the World Juniors. We were good enough to fill the seats.

Emotions ran high. Mainly, us really caring and you not really getting why we cared so much, but shrugging your shoulders and climbing on for the ride.

Everybody had a few drinks. Somebody said something to somebody else that everyone else heard about. And suddenly a lot of feelings were hurt.

Afterward, one of you said some mean things about us.

We (i.e., I) said some things back.

They republished the column I wrote about the whole mess in The Buffalo News on Wednesday morning.

My email inbox started to fill up with slights against my intelligence, manliness and use of the letter ‘u’ in words like ‘neighbours.’ That last one tipped me off that this wasn’t the usual daily batch of hate mail.

“You are a total arrogant (blank) (blank) and I mean that in the most hurtful way,” began one of my favourites. “(P)lease burn down the Peace Bridge and never come back here.”

Isn’t the Peace Bridge made of steel? So how would we … never mind.

There was a lot more in the (blank)-ety (blank)-ing vein. In my daytimer, right under ‘2007 New Year’s resolutions’, I made a special note: ‘Find a better class of enemy’.

There were other irritated, though less expletive, notes.

Many of these had a pair of themes. First, ‘We don’t want to fight, but …’. And second, ‘Why don’t Canadians tip?’

Is this really a big issue that no one told me about? Canada, are you going into foreign countries and counting out your nickels after a four-course meal? Well then, stop that. It’s embarrassing for the rest of us.

Besides hockey, the one thing we get to lord over the Americans right now is our steroidally impressive economy. How are they going to know how flush we are if we don’t go down there and spread cash around like we’re running for office?

Some people mentioned the chanting of “U.S.A. sucks” by Canadian fans, though they were willing to give us the benefit of the doubt.

“I feel that a few a------- in the crowd do not represent the entire group, no matter where you are,” wrote Tom Stankowski. I believe he’s quoting the official motto of all family reunions right there.

And though we’re the a------- he’s referring to, I’m going to try to take Tom’s note in the Gandhi-esque spirit I hope it was meant.

“We loved having raucous Canadians in town for the tournament. But after a couple of weeks of it, we kind of loved it when the tournament was over, too,” wrote Blair Webster. “That doesn’t mean we love you less than we did.”

Which is, you will agree, reasonable and sort of flattering.

After an a.m. deluge of ill will, there was a turning of the tide by midday.

A third sort of email began to flood in.

This was a steady series of without-reservation apologies for any offence caused and appeals to cross-border amity.

“As a resident of Buffalo, I nominate you to receive the ‘Thank You’ that Western New York wants to give to you and your fellow Canadians,” David Brand wrote.

Everybody, listen up. Dave says ‘Thank you’. He asked me to tell you that.

There was a lot more like that, all of it earnest and touching. Another writer signed off with, “Your Friend.”

Buffalo, for a minute there, it looked like things were going to go off. Kind of like when you were a kid and you were play-wrestling with your brother, and someone accidentally got bopped hard in the nose. For a moment, you stop and stare at each other, trying to decide if a pretend-fight is going to become the real thing.

We just had that moment, Buffalo. I think we’ve decided that we know each other too well to let a few angry words ruin a long friendship.

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