World's 50 Best Restaurants - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

warrrreagl · 05-13-2010, 07:29 PM

I saw this a couple of weeks ago and meant to create a thread, but forgot about it until tonight.

Quote:

World's 50 best restaurants list released - CNN.com

1) Noma (Copenhagen, Denmark)

2) El Bulli (Roses, Spain)

3) The Fat Duck (Bray, England)

4) El Celler de Can Roca (Girona, Spain)

5) Mugaritz (Errenteria, Spain)

6) Osteria Francescana (Modena, Italy)

7) Alinea (Chicago, Illinois)

8) Daniel (New York)

9) Arzak (San Sebastián, Spain)

10) Per Se (New York)

11) Le Chateaubriand (Paris, France)

12) La Colombe (Cape Town, South Africa)

13) Pierre Gagnaire (Paris, France)

14) L'Hotel de Ville - Philippe Rochat (Crissier, Switzerland)

15) Le Bernardin (New York)

16) L'Astrance (Paris, France)

17) Hof Van Cleve (Kruishoutem, Belgium)

18) D.O.M. (São Paolo, Brazil)

19) Oud Sluis (Sluis, Netherlands)

20) Le Calandre (Rubano, Italy)

21) Steirereck (Vienna, Austria)

22) Vendôme (Bergisch Gladbach, Germany)

23) Chef Dominique (Helsinki, Finland)

24) Les Créations de Narisawa (Tokyo, Japan)

25) Mathias Dahlgren (Stockholm, Sweden)

26) Momofuku Ssäm Bar (New York)

27) Quay Restaurant (Sydney, Australia)

28) Iggy's (Singapore)

29) L'Atelier de Joel Robuchon (Paris, France)

30) Schloss Schauenstein (Fürstenau, Switzerland)

31) Le Quartier Français (Franschhoek, South Africa)

32) The French Laundry (Yountville, California)

33) Martin Berasategui (Lasarte-oria, Spain)

34) Aqua (Bath, England)

35) Combal Zero (Rivoli, Italy)

36) Dal Pescatore (Mantova, Italy)

37) De Librije (Zwolle, Netherlands)

38) Tetsuya's (Sydney, Australia)

39) Jaan Par Andre (Singapore)

40) Il Canto (Siena, Italy)

41) Alain Ducasse Au Plaza Athénée (Paris, France)

42) Oaxen Krog (Oaxen, Sweden)

43) St. John (London, England)

44) La Maison Troisgros (Roanne, France)

45) wd~50 (New York)

46) Biko (Mexico City, Mexico)

47) Die Schwarzwaldstube (Baiersbronn, Germany)

48) Nihonryori RyuGin (Tokyo, Japan)

49) Hibiscus (London, England)

50) Eleven Madison Park (New York)

I am very curious to know who amongst us has eaten at any of these places, and how was the experience? What do you think makes it one of the world's best restaurants?

Jetée · 05-13-2010, 07:33 PM

I haven't eaten at any of the above. Scrolling down the list, I've been to (and had residence in) half of the cities, over the course of my lifetime (about 8 or 9 that are mentioned above) but still...

Commenting upon your second query: "What do you think makes it one of the world's best restaurants?"

Location. Location. Ambiance. Exorbitant Prices. Location. Staff & Cooks. Clientele. Location. & Location.

spindles · 05-13-2010, 07:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jetée

Location. Location. Ambiance. Exorbitant Prices. Location. Staff & Cooks. Clientele. Location. & Location.

This one:
38) Tetsuya's (Sydney, Australia)

has nothing to do with Location. It is smack bang in the middle of office buildings (but is a single storey heritage listed building, so it may have ambiance).

I know people who have eaten here and raved about it, but have yet to get there myself. Note that this restaurant has been in the top 3 restaurants in Sydney for a very long time. Mr Tetsuya is obviously doing something right!

27) Quay Restaurant (Sydney, Australia)

Definitely has location on its side - the view out the window is across Circular Quay to the Sydney Opera House. We almost had our work Christmas party here a couple of years ago, but ended up going to restaurant IN the Opera House. Also nice!

Charlatan · 05-13-2010, 08:24 PM

In the course of my job I have either screened documentaries about many of these restaurants or restaurateurs. I have also met a few of the chefs.

The difference between these places and other restaurants isn't about the location of the restaurant - let's face it, Copenhagen isn't the culinary capitol of the world.

It's about the following:

1) the chef's passion for ingredients and what he/she is doing with them. The top three restaurants are all, when it comes to food, mad scientists/artists who are pushing very hard on the envelope of the definition of food. They do what they do, not always for the money. El Bulli works at a loss. Noma is a restaurant that seats 40 people and has 40 people working there... it just breaks even.
2) the chef's ability to network with other chefs and food journalists of note. You can be amazing but if nobody in the know knows you aren't going to be on a list like this.
3) the service, ambience, etc. are all without fault or flaw. You are paying big money and often waiting for 3 to 6 months for a reservation. Would you expect less?

The two on the list that are in town are on my list of places to eat this summer. Many of the others are on my wish list for places to eat if I am ever in their part of the world.

Sadly, no Canadian restaurants are on the list.

blahblah454 · 05-13-2010, 08:31 PM

Wow, lots of those are in New York.

I would love to try one of these places out sometime, but I wonder if it would even be worth it. I highly doubt my palate is nearly refined enough for it to even matter.

spindles · 05-13-2010, 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blahblah454

I highly doubt my palate is nearly refined enough for it to even matter.

Excuse me but that is just crap. You don't need to be some high level food critic with a +4 fork and knife set to enjoy a top shelf culinary experience.

dlish · 05-13-2010, 11:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spindles

This one:
38) Tetsuya's (Sydney, Australia)

has nothing to do with Location. It is smack bang in the middle of office buildings (but is a single storey heritage listed building, so it may have ambiance).

I know people who have eaten here and raved about it, but have yet to get there myself. Note that this restaurant has been in the top 3 restaurants in Sydney for a very long time. Mr Tetsuya is obviously doing something right!

27) Quay Restaurant (Sydney, Australia)

Definitely has location on its side - the view out the window is across Circular Quay to the Sydney Opera House. We almost had our work Christmas party here a couple of years ago, but ended up going to restaurant IN the Opera House. Also nice!

i havent been to any of these. Quay Restaurant ive heard is spectacular, but i dont like the idea of paying a premium for location unless its a really special occasion - which ive done at times.

Usually I spend my time eating in grungy inner city areas like glebe and newtown where the food is still great but at a reasonable price rather than the city centre itself where prices can be exorbitant.

Charlatan · 05-14-2010, 02:55 AM

With these restaurants... it really isn't about the location.

LordEden · 05-14-2010, 04:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jetée

I haven't eaten at any of the above. Scrolling down the list, I've been to (and had residence in) half of the cities, over the course of my lifetime (about 8 or 9 that are mentioned above) but still...

Commenting upon your second query: "What do you think makes it one of the world's best restaurants?"

Location. Location. Ambiance. Exorbitant Prices. Location. Staff & Cooks. Clientele. Location. & Location.

How can you have a thread about "Food as Art" and not mention food ONCE in that whole rant? I know for a fact that a lot of restaurants are praised by food critics, foodies, and food bloggers the world over. I know Chef Eric Ripert did not get his three Michelin-Stars for just being in the right place in NY and having huge prices on his menu. His food is praised the world over for how good it is.

This surprises me Jetee, I figured you for someone that saw food as something more than just something to fill your belly.

Quote:

Originally Posted by spindles

Excuse me but that is just crap. You don't need to be some high level food critic with a +4 fork and knife set to enjoy a top shelf culinary experience.

QFT. You just have to have an open mind about what the chef is feeding you and a willingness to try anything they put in front of you. Even someone raised on nothing but fast food can see the difference between the food on the restaurants on this list and Waffle House.

Also, I want a +4 fork and knife set... all I got his this +2 carrot peeler.

Frosstbyte · 05-14-2010, 05:20 AM

Not that I've eaten at a single one of them, but based on name and location alone, it strikes me as a fairly Euro-centric list, at least in terms of cooking tradition if not location. I'd love to take the grand tour of a list like this, though. Anyone have a winning lottery ticket they're looking to get rid of?

snowy · 05-14-2010, 07:53 AM

It also strikes me as a very NYC-centric list in the United States, with the exception of The French Laundry in Yountville. I think whoever compiled this list needs to expand their horizons a bit. Furthermore, a lot of these restaurants are perennially on lists such as these. While I understand that they are very good restaurants, I can't help but wonder if we're neglecting more up-and-coming restaurants that are not in New York by only paying attention to restaurants that have Michelin stars and/or lots of press about them/their chefs.

Charlatan · 05-14-2010, 08:52 AM

Why would an up and coming restaurant be in a list of the best in the world?

That said, the restaurants on these lists are there largely because of their marketing efforts to chefs, foodies and food journalists. Once they have proven to have a certain level of talent... it becomes about the politics.

BadNick · 05-14-2010, 10:17 AM

I've eaten at two in NY and one in France. Fine dining used to be a weekly hobby, although since the kids were born we've postponed our ongoing culinary adventures. The restaurants of this caliber were all very excellent, using only the most carefully selected and freshest ingredients, prepared with the highest level of passion, and presented accordingly. There are also many equally (or nearly so) fine restaurants that you have to dig deep to even find out about, but they can be comparable or even better at any given time.

Saying you don't have refined enough taste to appreciate great food reminds me of people who say they can't appreciate high end audio...true if you have damaged senses, but normal human taste and hearing are very highly developed senses and all you have to do is open your ears, or mouth. You may not want to do it for various reasons, but this reason isn't legit imo.

Cynthetiq · 05-14-2010, 10:37 AM

wd-50 is in my neighborhood. I keep meaning to go there but I end up at 1942 a tapas restaurant which is 2 doors down, or I wind up a Sugar Sweet Sunshine Bakery. I've even been trying to get to Stuffed Artisan Cannolis, but the cupcakes keep winning.

I've been trying to get to Mommofuku for their $100 chicken dinner (two whole fried chickens, one southern style and one korean style – mu shu pancakes, bibb lettuce, four sauces and an assortment of seasonal vegetables) It is supposed to be amazing.

I can tell you it is frustrating to try to get reservations sometimes. I'm trying to get reservations for Peter Luger's Steakhouse in 2 weeks and can only get Thursday night at 9:45 or Friday at 4:45. There's a reason for lines and waits here in NYC. Usually, almost always, it's worth the wait.

Jetée · 05-14-2010, 03:58 PM

So, now I'm being looked at differently because it wasn't at a given that the above restaurants were mentioned for a reason, and would already have decent, if not astonishngly-great, food, and because I didn't mention it, I get jeers? I'm not one to quickly and readily jump into a thread's discussion to just state the obvious.

And just to get make my point clearer, it doesn't matter where exactly most of these restuarants are situated in the cities they make residence in, but more to do with what cities are actually represented. Have you even looked at the list? If there to open a new restuarant tomorrow in Akron, Ohio, headed by three of the most lauded chefs in the world, but it opened up with no buzz, no glitz, and no real awareness as to who was really running the kitchen, (just for the sake of my example, let's say the chefs wanted to remain "anonymous") it would have no shot at making this list just based on the location.

Charlatan · 05-14-2010, 06:13 PM

Jet... I don't see it as jeers but rather that some were taken aback by your position given your thread on food and art. No one here would suggest you are wrong to feel the way you do, just that they are surprised (interested?) that you've taken that point of view and think that you might reconsider your position or, at the very least, expound upon it.

At least that's the way I read it.

As for your comment about Akron, that's just the point I was trying to make. While Akron might not be the best example (you need patrons who will pay for what you are doing and if you are pushing the envelope of taste, ingredients, flavours, etc you are not going to stay in business for long in Akron) it is true that if someone wants to fly under the radar they can go unnoticed. I pointed out earlier that Noma, the number one restaurant, is in Copenhagen and Copenhagen might as well be Akron for the number of people who considered it a foodie destination before Noma started doing their thing a few years ago. The reason Noma is where it is, besides the fact that they have a talented chef and offer a good product, is because they know how to play the game. The chef and his team travel to the important food expos and competitions, they stage events like Looking North, where they fly in a pile of Michelin starred chefs to cook with Scandinavian ingredients for prominent foodies and food journalists. It also doesn't hurt the chef trained under Ferran Aidria (the owner and chef at El Bulli often seen as the best chef in the world).

In other words, his backwater is no longer a back water because he did not choose to fly under the radar. Had he wanted to just do his thing in peace, he could have cranked out good food to the good folks of Copenhagen and never said boo. In that case, he would have been just like the amazing chef in Akron.

That all said, yes, being in NYC, makes a big difference because it's easier to access the foodies and reputation makers BUT (big but) it's also a crucible. If you aren't good, and sometimes even if you are (see Thomas Keller's first efforts in NYC), you will crash and burn very quickly and given the vast number of restaurant there, you have to work just that much harder to earn and keep the respect of your peers and clients.

It's a very tough business. Especially if you want to be at the top.

LordEden · 05-14-2010, 06:47 PM

What Charlatan said.

I'm just surprised jetee, you just (in my Internet eye) to be someone that enjoyed food in a way only people that love food or that have traveled can really know. It just seemed that you said that no good restaurants could come out of those towns and they only get by because they have NYC or France by their name.

Just seemed to me like that is a very limited view of the world of food.

Surprised, but not hateful. That's not what I was aiming for.

Also, the above post. QFT.

Borla · 05-15-2010, 11:01 AM

The nicest restaurant I've been to is Charlie Trotter's.

Link

Wine Spectator named it the "Best Restaurant in the World" in 1998. It's twice since then been named the best restaurant in the US, and has been on the "Top 50" in the world list multiple times, though it wasn't on the list above.

It was a phenomenal experience, and I'd recommend it to any "foodie" as a bucket list type of place.

Now that I've seen this list, it looks like Alinea may be the place I have our next anniversary dinner.

Ayashe · 05-15-2010, 06:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charlatan

In the course of my job I have either screened documentaries about many of these restaurants or restaurateurs. I have also met a few of the chefs.

The difference between these places and other restaurants isn't about the location of the restaurant - let's face it, Copenhagen isn't the culinary capitol of the world.

It's about the following:

1) the chef's passion for ingredients and what he/she is doing with them. The top three restaurants are all, when it comes to food, mad scientists/artists who are pushing very hard on the envelope of the definition of food. They do what they do, not always for the money. El Bulli works at a loss. Noma is a restaurant that seats 40 people and has 40 people working there... it just breaks even.
2) the chef's ability to network with other chefs and food journalists of note. You can be amazing but if nobody in the know knows you aren't going to be on a list like this.
3) the service, ambience, etc. are all without fault or flaw. You are paying big money and often waiting for 3 to 6 months for a reservation. Would you expect less?

The two on the list that are in town are on my list of places to eat this summer. Many of the others are on my wish list for places to eat if I am ever in their part of the world.

Sadly, no Canadian restaurants are on the list.

El Bulli will be closing in 2012. It is a shame as I imagine it to be one of the most unique dining experiences that exists today. Ferran Adria apparently will be teaching at Harvard.

Jetée · 05-15-2010, 07:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LordEden

Just seemed to me like that is a very limited view of the world of food.

If it seemed like that, it's because it probably was, but not on my part. It wasn't a rant or gripe of any sort, but just a quick rattling off of the basics of what it would take to be "recognized" as an institution of culinary dynamics, innovation, and preparation, otherwise referred to as a "restaurant mecca".

Charlatan has expanded upon my initial premise, but was what I listed all that farfetched (save for the repetition of 'location')? I don't think I said anything disparaging or with illusionary details in my initial post, however short it was. And for those that still may not think that the locations are not key in actually landing on a list like this, the average population of each city's day-to-day business in the above listing is, cumulatively, just under ~8 million unique residents; furthermore, just over 1/4 of the restaurants named (16-17) are either actually within, or immediately outside city limits of a country's capital city (or in the case of three, they are within former capital cities, namely NYC).

hawker rider · 05-18-2010, 06:14 AM

I have been to 4 of the restaurants on the list, and to say that it was a very enjoyable experience doesn't do it justice. Offcourse that's easy since I love food.

One of the things that they don't have in common is location. Some, if not most of these restaurants are quite a way off the beaten path. The mention Akron,OH a few posts back actually made me laugh a little as 2 of the restaurants that I have been too have been basically in a place like Akron...yes, I have also been in Akron a few times...

The thing that stood out to me was that the chefs are very creative with some of the courses they have on their menu. The use of the right spices, they must be very critical in the use of fresh ingredients. And they can't have the same menu for a certain period of time. So that forces the chefs to come up with new creations.

It seemed that the whole dinner/experience was "complete" from the appetizer to the wines, everything was made to complement the current course.

My co-worker for instance wanted a red pinot to start off with, but the waitress insisted that it wouldn't match the appetizer we had with our course, and she came up with a different wine that suited it better, and this was not the perverbial "swap" that ended up being $100.- more expensive.

Yes, the one thing they DID have in common is that it will run you a few Benjamins a person. And don't go there if you have been chopping wood all day long and have a serious appetite!

lurkette · 05-18-2010, 06:51 AM

I have eaten at the French Laundry and while it was very good, it was not memorable....couldn't tell you what I ate. The most memorable meal I've had was at the Grill Room in the Windsor Court Hotel. I used to travel a lot for my last job, and we always ate at the best restaurants in whatever town we were in. Over the course of 6-7 years I visited a lot of very good restaurants, but the French Laundry was not the best in my opinion. None of the others are even on the list. Aqua in San Francisco was another one that stands out in my memory.

Salem · 05-18-2010, 09:20 AM

I would love to go to any one of these places. I just went to what is concidered possibly the most upsale reteraunt in my city, on someone elses money mind you, and I had one of the best steaks I've ever eaten. I would LOVE to try any of these places, I find the pricing ridiculous and hte portions even more so, but the experience and the food, is probably worth it.

05-13-2010, 07:33 PM	#2 (permalink)
Jetée The Reforms Location: Rarely, if ever, here or there, but always in transition	I haven't eaten at any of the above. Scrolling down the list, I've been to (and had residence in) half of the cities, over the course of my lifetime (about 8 or 9 that are mentioned above) but still... Commenting upon your second query: "What do you think makes it one of the world's best restaurants?" Location. Location. Ambiance. Exorbitant Prices. Location. Staff & Cooks. Clientele. Location. & Location. __________________ As human beings, our greatness lies not so much in being able to remake the world (that is the myth of the Atomic Age) as in being able to remake ourselves. —Mohandas K. Gandhi

05-13-2010, 08:24 PM	#4 (permalink)
Charlatan Getting it. Super Moderator Location: Lion City	In the course of my job I have either screened documentaries about many of these restaurants or restaurateurs. I have also met a few of the chefs. The difference between these places and other restaurants isn't about the location of the restaurant - let's face it, Copenhagen isn't the culinary capitol of the world. It's about the following: 1) the chef's passion for ingredients and what he/she is doing with them. The top three restaurants are all, when it comes to food, mad scientists/artists who are pushing very hard on the envelope of the definition of food. They do what they do, not always for the money. El Bulli works at a loss. Noma is a restaurant that seats 40 people and has 40 people working there... it just breaks even. 2) the chef's ability to network with other chefs and food journalists of note. You can be amazing but if nobody in the know knows you aren't going to be on a list like this. 3) the service, ambience, etc. are all without fault or flaw. You are paying big money and often waiting for 3 to 6 months for a reservation. Would you expect less? The two on the list that are in town are on my list of places to eat this summer. Many of the others are on my wish list for places to eat if I am ever in their part of the world. Sadly, no Canadian restaurants are on the list. __________________ "My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars." - Old Man Luedecke

05-14-2010, 02:55 AM	#8 (permalink)
Charlatan Getting it. Super Moderator Location: Lion City	With these restaurants... it really isn't about the location. __________________ "My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars." - Old Man Luedecke

05-14-2010, 07:53 AM	#11 (permalink)
snowy Kick Ass Kunoichi Location: Oregon	It also strikes me as a very NYC-centric list in the United States, with the exception of The French Laundry in Yountville. I think whoever compiled this list needs to expand their horizons a bit. Furthermore, a lot of these restaurants are perennially on lists such as these. While I understand that they are very good restaurants, I can't help but wonder if we're neglecting more up-and-coming restaurants that are not in New York by only paying attention to restaurants that have Michelin stars and/or lots of press about them/their chefs. __________________ If I am not better, at least I am different. --Jean-Jacques Rousseau

05-14-2010, 08:52 AM	#12 (permalink)
Charlatan Getting it. Super Moderator Location: Lion City	Why would an up and coming restaurant be in a list of the best in the world? That said, the restaurants on these lists are there largely because of their marketing efforts to chefs, foodies and food journalists. Once they have proven to have a certain level of talent... it becomes about the politics. __________________ "My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars." - Old Man Luedecke

05-13-2010, 08:31 PM	#5 (permalink)
blahblah454 Let's put a smile on that face Location: On the road...	Wow, lots of those are in New York. I would love to try one of these places out sometime, but I wonder if it would even be worth it. I highly doubt my palate is nearly refined enough for it to even matter.

05-14-2010, 05:20 AM	#10 (permalink)
Frosstbyte Winter is Coming Location: The North	Not that I've eaten at a single one of them, but based on name and location alone, it strikes me as a fairly Euro-centric list, at least in terms of cooking tradition if not location. I'd love to take the grand tour of a list like this, though. Anyone have a winning lottery ticket they're looking to get rid of?

05-14-2010, 10:17 AM	#13 (permalink)
BadNick Riding the Ocean Spray Location: S.E. PA in U Sofa	I've eaten at two in NY and one in France. Fine dining used to be a weekly hobby, although since the kids were born we've postponed our ongoing culinary adventures. The restaurants of this caliber were all very excellent, using only the most carefully selected and freshest ingredients, prepared with the highest level of passion, and presented accordingly. There are also many equally (or nearly so) fine restaurants that you have to dig deep to even find out about, but they can be comparable or even better at any given time. Saying you don't have refined enough taste to appreciate great food reminds me of people who say they can't appreciate high end audio...true if you have damaged senses, but normal human taste and hearing are very highly developed senses and all you have to do is open your ears, or mouth. You may not want to do it for various reasons, but this reason isn't legit imo.

05-14-2010, 10:37 AM	#14 (permalink)
Cynthetiq Tilted Cat Head Administrator Location: Manhattan, NY	wd-50 is in my neighborhood. I keep meaning to go there but I end up at 1942 a tapas restaurant which is 2 doors down, or I wind up a Sugar Sweet Sunshine Bakery. I've even been trying to get to Stuffed Artisan Cannolis, but the cupcakes keep winning. I've been trying to get to Mommofuku for their $100 chicken dinner (two whole fried chickens, one southern style and one korean style – mu shu pancakes, bibb lettuce, four sauces and an assortment of seasonal vegetables) It is supposed to be amazing. I can tell you it is frustrating to try to get reservations sometimes. I'm trying to get reservations for Peter Luger's Steakhouse in 2 weeks and can only get Thursday night at 9:45 or Friday at 4:45. There's a reason for lines and waits here in NYC. Usually, almost always, it's worth the wait. __________________ I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not. What's the best nation in the world? DO-NATION!

05-14-2010, 03:58 PM	#15 (permalink)
Jetée The Reforms Location: Rarely, if ever, here or there, but always in transition	So, now I'm being looked at differently because it wasn't at a given that the above restaurants were mentioned for a reason, and would already have decent, if not astonishngly-great, food, and because I didn't mention it, I get jeers? I'm not one to quickly and readily jump into a thread's discussion to just state the obvious. And just to get make my point clearer, it doesn't matter where exactly most of these restuarants are situated in the cities they make residence in, but more to do with what cities are actually represented. Have you even looked at the list? If there to open a new restuarant tomorrow in Akron, Ohio, headed by three of the most lauded chefs in the world, but it opened up with no buzz, no glitz, and no real awareness as to who was really running the kitchen, (just for the sake of my example, let's say the chefs wanted to remain "anonymous") it would have no shot at making this list just based on the location. __________________ As human beings, our greatness lies not so much in being able to remake the world (that is the myth of the Atomic Age) as in being able to remake ourselves. —Mohandas K. Gandhi

05-14-2010, 06:13 PM	#16 (permalink)
Charlatan Getting it. Super Moderator Location: Lion City	Jet... I don't see it as jeers but rather that some were taken aback by your position given your thread on food and art. No one here would suggest you are wrong to feel the way you do, just that they are surprised (interested?) that you've taken that point of view and think that you might reconsider your position or, at the very least, expound upon it. At least that's the way I read it. As for your comment about Akron, that's just the point I was trying to make. While Akron might not be the best example (you need patrons who will pay for what you are doing and if you are pushing the envelope of taste, ingredients, flavours, etc you are not going to stay in business for long in Akron) it is true that if someone wants to fly under the radar they can go unnoticed. I pointed out earlier that Noma, the number one restaurant, is in Copenhagen and Copenhagen might as well be Akron for the number of people who considered it a foodie destination before Noma started doing their thing a few years ago. The reason Noma is where it is, besides the fact that they have a talented chef and offer a good product, is because they know how to play the game. The chef and his team travel to the important food expos and competitions, they stage events like Looking North, where they fly in a pile of Michelin starred chefs to cook with Scandinavian ingredients for prominent foodies and food journalists. It also doesn't hurt the chef trained under Ferran Aidria (the owner and chef at El Bulli often seen as the best chef in the world). In other words, his backwater is no longer a back water because he did not choose to fly under the radar. Had he wanted to just do his thing in peace, he could have cranked out good food to the good folks of Copenhagen and never said boo. In that case, he would have been just like the amazing chef in Akron. That all said, yes, being in NYC, makes a big difference because it's easier to access the foodies and reputation makers BUT (big but) it's also a crucible. If you aren't good, and sometimes even if you are (see Thomas Keller's first efforts in NYC), you will crash and burn very quickly and given the vast number of restaurant there, you have to work just that much harder to earn and keep the respect of your peers and clients. It's a very tough business. Especially if you want to be at the top. __________________ "My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars." - Old Man Luedecke

05-15-2010, 11:01 AM	#18 (permalink)
Borla Junkie	The nicest restaurant I've been to is Charlie Trotter's. Link Wine Spectator named it the "Best Restaurant in the World" in 1998. It's twice since then been named the best restaurant in the US, and has been on the "Top 50" in the world list multiple times, though it wasn't on the list above. It was a phenomenal experience, and I'd recommend it to any "foodie" as a bucket list type of place. Now that I've seen this list, it looks like Alinea may be the place I have our next anniversary dinner. __________________ Coimhéad fearg fhear na foighde!!!!

05-18-2010, 06:14 AM	#21 (permalink)
hawker rider Upright Location: Florida and all over the world	I have been to 4 of the restaurants on the list, and to say that it was a very enjoyable experience doesn't do it justice. Offcourse that's easy since I love food. One of the things that they don't have in common is location. Some, if not most of these restaurants are quite a way off the beaten path. The mention Akron,OH a few posts back actually made me laugh a little as 2 of the restaurants that I have been too have been basically in a place like Akron...yes, I have also been in Akron a few times... The thing that stood out to me was that the chefs are very creative with some of the courses they have on their menu. The use of the right spices, they must be very critical in the use of fresh ingredients. And they can't have the same menu for a certain period of time. So that forces the chefs to come up with new creations. It seemed that the whole dinner/experience was "complete" from the appetizer to the wines, everything was made to complement the current course. My co-worker for instance wanted a red pinot to start off with, but the waitress insisted that it wouldn't match the appetizer we had with our course, and she came up with a different wine that suited it better, and this was not the perverbial "swap" that ended up being $100.- more expensive. Yes, the one thing they DID have in common is that it will run you a few Benjamins a person. And don't go there if you have been chopping wood all day long and have a serious appetite!

05-18-2010, 06:51 AM	#22 (permalink)
lurkette My future is coming on Moderator Emeritus Location: east of the sun and west of the moon	I have eaten at the French Laundry and while it was very good, it was not memorable....couldn't tell you what I ate. The most memorable meal I've had was at the Grill Room in the Windsor Court Hotel. I used to travel a lot for my last job, and we always ate at the best restaurants in whatever town we were in. Over the course of 6-7 years I visited a lot of very good restaurants, but the French Laundry was not the best in my opinion. None of the others are even on the list. Aqua in San Francisco was another one that stands out in my memory. __________________ "If ten million people believe a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing." - Anatole France

05-18-2010, 09:20 AM	#23 (permalink)
Salem Psycho Location: Canada	I would love to go to any one of these places. I just went to what is concidered possibly the most upsale reteraunt in my city, on someone elses money mind you, and I had one of the best steaks I've ever eaten. I would LOVE to try any of these places, I find the pricing ridiculous and hte portions even more so, but the experience and the food, is probably worth it.