Ayashe

In the last few days I have come across a couple of examples in my life that have not depicted well the lengths the media will go for the sake of a story.

A little background for you. I have been a member of a couple of forums over the years that help provide support to not soldiers, but their wives, their mothers, their lovers, their friends. One of the forums is fairly tight security-wise. You have to prove your way into admittance. Another, well it certainly could have been a bit tighter as I will prove later. These forums are a place for people to support one another through some of the most difficult times as loved ones of soldiers. As you can well imagine, a lot of very intimate and painful thoughts are expressed there. Now, imagine the surprise when this was found on our forum:

Of course OPSEC reminders followed that posting and she replied once more.


As you can well imagine there was a great feeling of disgust to be invaded like this. It may seem like little to many of you, but it is a very private place. Imagine someone reading your private journals to put it in perspective. of course this issue was rather quickly remedied and as far as I know, no one on the forum chose to speak the the woman, but she very clearly entered a place she didn't belong. I will say that regardless of the violation on our privacy she did manage it professionally. I haven't heard that she has published anything that could have been taken from the forum without permission.

Onward, to another point. Strangely enough, I was alerted to this by another Military family oriented forum.

Gates vs. AP over war photo - First Read - msnbc.com

I agree in the freedom of the press, I also agree that there are limits. My personal opinion is that the request of the bereaved family should have been honored. A lot can be explained without the lens of a camera.

I also reflect on one of the reasons I shut off my own television in 2006. I tired of soldier deaths being treated as numbers and I tired of the news getting it wrong seemingly every time. I had an "in" to what my soldiers were seeing and it was not at all what I would see depicted on the television. While I do believe that the family was being disrespected, a part of me realizes that this is a reminder to people that soldiers are human and their deaths are real. I believe many people have become desensitized to this.

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Spiritsoar

Ok, being active duty Army, I think I can empathize a little bit with what you're saying. In regards to the forum, I'm a little torn. On one hand, I completely know what you're saying, and understand how the family members might have felt their privacy was violated. But, as you said, the request was handled professionally. Even journalists are fallible, and as long as none of the private thoughts, stories, or feelings were published without consent, I'd say no harm no foul.

On the other hand, the other story, as a soldier, disgusts me. And I am a huge advocate of free press. While I can see how some people were disturbed with some prior photographs (especially those of caskets coming home), I understand the need of the media to report and bring the war back home. Especially since I for the most part think a lot of people have forgotten that we're over there, or stopped caring. But to so blatantly disregard the wishes of a family on such a personal matter, even when the Secretary of Defense himself came to them to clarify the grief it would cause, is appaling.

This isn't a matter of journalistic integrity. This is a matter or morality and common decency. This isn't responsible reporting, it's a case of an organization putting itself before the people it is supposed to be reporting to. I'm glad to hear that most organizations that draw their information from the AP chose not to publish, and I hope every employee of the AP is ashamed to be part of the organization right now.

As a side note, this is just one more argument against embedded journalists, which I've never liked.

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Anormalguy

In the first situation, the reporter was open about what she was doing, & left the option of whether or not to speak to her up to the site participants. It does sound as though she may have violated the forum's policy.

In the second siuation, the reporter was embedded, with the blessing of the US military, to report on the war. The AP has the right to use the photos & videos.

The journalistic photos & videos from Vietnam are credited with helping to accelerate the withdrawal of US troops; what if the news agencies had decided to suppress those photos & vids?

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Spiritsoar

Either you didn't read the whole story, or you come across as one of those who place an ideal over real people. Nobody disputed that the AP had the right to, if they didn't then the Gates wouldn't have bothered asking, he would have just ordered them not released. What we're talking about here is a sense of morality and compassion, of ethical behavior. I actually agree with you about images of the war bringing awareness to the public back home. But there's a difference between showing images of war, and showing a soldier mortally wounded, against the wishes of his family. This is a soldier's death, probably the most personal image imaginable. These military families suffer and worry for us while we're gone, I think the least they can expect is that their wishes about their loved ones' privacy be honored.

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thingstodo

I csn tell you this: I know Tom Curley personally and know him to be an honorable person. He is also very caring and very smart. I am confident he would have made his decision considering every possible factor there was to consider. There is much more at play here than the immediate family, even though I'm sure that is difficult for them to understand.

War is too often sensationalized when the reality of war is horror. There obviously aren't enough people that understand that concept. Perhaps things like this will help in some small way.

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Ayashe

For myself, it is a battle. I see the family of a now deceased soldier who felt revealing his final moments before death would be too personal, too painful and just too much. I can understand and relate to the family feeling that the death of their son was sensationalized, those last few moments of agony, him laying there with a blood clot in his heart, his legs blown to bits, feeling suffocated and knowingly dying.. not to want him remembered in this way. Here we have a soldier in some of his final moments, surrounded by his "brothers" a deeply personal event. An event that all who were there will remember as they think back on their days as soldiers. We have the military "family" back home who will remember him from church, from the military balls, from bumping into him at the local PX who are reminded of the mortality of their own soldiers who are battling doing who only knows what overseas.

I, myself find that I am walking along the rails of the fence. On one hand, the soldier and the family already made their sacrifice and I feel their wishes should have been honored. On the other hand, I know that as there has been a war going on for years, people are plugging away carrying on with their lives and seemingly have forgotten we are at war. I wish for them to be remembered and their stories told, yet I also have an urge towards protecting the family. I consider what I would want if I had died in the soldiers place, I think I would want my story told. I completely agree that journalism is a public service, it is a question on where you draw the line. I also have to ponder the unanswerable question, what would Lance Corporal Joshua M. Bernard have wanted? In all honesty, I wouldn't have blinked an eye on the photo being published if the request to be withheld hadn't been made by the family.

I can also see that I absolutely hated the depiction in the media. I turned off the television 3 years ago because in great part, I felt that soldiers were being dehumanized as it would be announced "3 casualties in a village north of Baghdad". You never heard a name unless the soldier hailed from your own hometown. You rarely ever heard the real accounts of what happened. When was the last time you heard of a soldier shooting off several rounds of ammo while being mortally wounded, defending his men until he succumbed to his wounds or was medi-vac'd from the field? You don't hear the stories of how they responded, how hard they fought, you just don't hear the story.. at all. More often you don't hear a thing until someone who was witness, a fellow soldier returns home and tells of what really happened.. assuming they can bear to. I believe I would want my story told.

I guess where I my personal battle lies with this is that I see two issues. An opportunity to to show that the war is real, the soldiers are real and to remind people that this isn't just a video game. These are real people, flesh and blood at stake. The second however is the issue that the request of the family was not honored and I personally find that very bothersome.

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Willravel

Regarding the OP, it's bad form and lazy reporting to contact someone through an internet forum. I had a journalist try to contact me through TFP (The_Jazz can verify this) and I found it was entirely inappropriate.

That said, we're not seeing an honest depiction of war in the media. At all. A lot of information is censored, and a lot of other information is radically sensationalized. Why? If there was no information, people would be up in arms, so they have to give us something, but if the public were given an objective look, both wars would have lost support immediately. I want to see the caskets of fallen soldiers on TV. I want to see broader troop movement, successes, and failures. I want everyone from our highest leaders to our lowest ground commanders to have to answer the "why the hell are we doing this?" question without being able to fall back on meaningless rhetoric. While I don't approve of the methods, I can appreciate and even laud the tenacity of a reporter or journalist trying to report more of the truth than we normally get.

Her heart was in the right place, her brain was just somewhere else.

FuglyStick

I don't think freedom of speech is a license to throw ethics out the window.

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Anormalguy

I believe that the media has a right and a duty to accurately report the war. We at home need to see the horrors of war, not a sanitized 'approved' version of war.

I have deep sympathy for the soldier's family, and I won't pretend to understand their pain. Yes, publishing the photos caused them additional pain, but picking and choosing which graphic photos/vids are acceptable is dangerously close to censorship and sanitization.

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In a society where the individual is not free to pursue the truth...there is neither progress, stability nor security.--Edward R. Murrow

Spiritsoar

Only if done by the government. Notice that the Secretary of Defense asked them not to publish based on the wishes of the family, out of a sense of compassion.

Believe me, I've been there multiple times, and am likely to go back again before too long. I understand very well the sentiments coming across about a public that has largely forgotten about us. But none of us want our families to be hurt more than necessary, and in this case, I still feel their interest should have came first.

As has been said before, a freedom to do something does not make it right.

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thingstodo

The great thing about America is that we can still have and share our own opinions on subject such as this.

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percy

I don't think it is a question of ethics or morality on the part of the media. The media has a job to do however one wants to quantify that.

Of course the family is distraught and that is normal. They have a right to be upset. That's one side.

The other side is the range of impact the news piece perhaps caused in a positive sense. If it created an emotion to act in any way because of it, then it did it's job. Maybe hundreds of people decided to sign up for duty because of it. Or volunteer time to help recovering veterans. Or just realized how short life is and decided to be a better person because of it.

As for the reporter on the internet trying to find people to interview. She should have contacted the site administrator to find a better way to get what she was looking for. But who knows,..lazy or just exasberated at going that route in the first place. Need both sides to really know.

Bill O'Rights

Mr. Stick, I have vehemently disagreed with you on any number of topics and/or subjects. On this statement, I agree with you 100%. Freedoms come with responsibilities. Just because you can do a thing, doesn't mean that you should.
Another one of the very rare times when I can nod my head in agreement with something that you say. Though, I dare say, our motives would not be in synch. Feel free to show every flag draped casket that is brought into Dover AFB. Don't hide them...honor them. Whereas, I suspect, you would use flag draped caskets as tics on a tally sheet, I see them as containing the remains of fellow servicemen. Servicemen that deserve to brought home with dignity, honor and respect. Not brought home in secrecy like some sort of an embarrasment. They deserve no less.

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Willravel

Oh comon, tics on a tally sheet? Images of caskets being censored by the Bush Administration was one of those things that almost convinced me to take up photo journalism in order to get those pictures to the public. Instead of tallies on a sheet, I want people to understand the incredible and unacceptable cost of unjustifiable wars. I want them to see families grieving for fallen heroes. I want the truth of the war shoved down the throats of and callous and ignorant war supporters. I don't want any of the 4,659 coalition lives lost in Iraq or 1,374 coalition lives lost in Afghanistan to be forgotten or in vein. Those are men and women that sacrificed their lives.

You may not remember, but several of my best friends are in the military.

Bill O'Rights

Yeah. Thanks for helping to make my point. Whether you realize it or not, you are using them as tics on a tally sheet. I see the individual caskets being unloaded. I see a man/woman that will not be forgotten. Not as long as I, and thousands of other American Legionaires, place flags upon their graves, and honor them in Memorial Day ceremonies every year...rather than go on a picnic at the beach. You, on the other hand, want to use them as data to cram down the throats of ignorant war supporters.

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"I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires." - Susan B. Anthony

"Hedonism with rules isn't hedonism at all, it's the Republican party." - JumpinJesus

It is indisputable that true beauty lies within...but a nice rack sure doesn't hurt.

Willravel

Only you're completely missing my point. Those aren't just ticks, they're people. The cost of the war is people, real people. These aren't just 10 second reports on the news or numbers on a casualty website if you can actually show the casket with the American flag draped over it surrounded by saluting men and women. That helps to translate the truth of the matter to people, not some meaningless statistic. Each of those 4,659 coalition members that have died left behind friends and family, a real life ended. Each of those 1,374 coalition members had dreams and loves and potential that will never happen precisely because of the inability here at home to do what's necessary (be it impeaching a terrorist or electing someone capable of ending BOTH wars).

I'm unwilling to sit idly by and allow further deaths in an unnecessary war. It's not pouring out my beer on Memorial day, it's actively seeking to prevent needless deaths and suffering.

Spiritsoar

Can't it be both ways? I mean I honor and respect my fallen my fallen brothers, and want the public to honor and respect them as well. On the other hand, the public should see the cost of this war, to make an honest appraisal of what this war is costing us, and whether it should continue. Despite my curiosity about the truth of why the war began, it's really just that, a desire to know. The true fact of the matter is that we are at war, it is affecting our us, we're still dying (46 US deaths that I know of in Afghanistan in August). As someone who will most likely be going back to combat within a year, again, I would like to know that I'm doing what the American people want. But they can't know what they agree with without knowing what's going on. That, in my opinion, is another important part of media coverage.

So, like I said, I see both sides. I want my fallen comrades honored for what they've sacrificed. And I want the American people to be able to make an honest appraisal of what's going on. But like I've said before, and maybe I'm just bitter, but I really don't think the majority of people pay attention or care anymore, as long as it doesn't affect them.

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mandy

Personally, i don't think it's lazy journo. I think she handled it in the most professional manner possible. She could have gone to the administrator of the site but that would have taken even longer. She did what she had to do and used what she had at her disposal to get it without violating anyone. Plus, no one spoke to her or gave her an interview.

On the matter of the AP reporter...there are just some things the world does not need to see or if it is so imperative that it is seen, a good reporter would have known how best to put it in words.

Unfortunately some journo's do not know how to do that anymore so they do whatever else they can get the story out there. It may not be right, but, "if it bleeds, it leads" and that's what sells. Unfortunately that's what some journalism has come to these days.

As for where to draw the line... Personally, as a qualified journalist, and as a person with much integrity and ethics, i believe i would draw the line at "no comment". It might be the easy or cowardly way out, but i also believe if a story wants to come out, it will and the same goes for if it wants to stay hidden. If people want to talk they will come to you or any other journo on that beat.

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Spiritsoar

I'm sorry. Could you perhaps reword or rephrase your question/statement? I have no idea what you're trying to ask/say.

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Ayashe

"I was driven by an inherent sense that a picture that revealed the true face of war would almost by definition be an anti-war photograph." -- James Nachtwey

Though remember please that this topic was not meant to be directly about the justifiability of the war itself. I did not desire to make this a pro vs anti war thread. This was meant more to explore the topic of journalistic ethics related to war coverage. I realize that the war itself is a heated topic which in itself is a great exploration of human thoughts, behaviors and emotions and it is tough to avoid in a thread such as this.

I can agree however that those figures that you have listed have been greatly influenced my thoughts on the media, how they have been handled in such an impersonal manner. I was absolutely disgusted to see the "ticks" or figures on the screen marking the death toll. Why? It is not so much in the knowledge of the figures which I believe should be very public, it is in how it was done. I would prefer in death to be memorialized by my name and not death #4,659, wouldn't you?

Yes, I believe it can be both ways. I think there is a healthy way to express mortality. A photo of a soldier at his marriage, a photo with his child or even a boot camp photo.

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