Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community  

Go Back   Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community > Chatter > General Discussion


 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 08-31-2009, 01:53 PM   #41 (permalink)
Please touch this.
 
Halx's Avatar
 
Owner/Admin
Location: Manhattan
Have you ever successfully "saved" someone from a religion to atheism? If so, tell us about it.
__________________
You have found this post informative.
-The Administrator
[Don't Feed The Animals]
Halx is offline  
Old 08-31-2009, 02:06 PM   #42 (permalink)
Junkie
 
Location: My head.
^^ Atheists don't do that. Were normal people.
Xerxys is offline  
Old 08-31-2009, 02:09 PM   #43 (permalink)
... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.
 
Willravel's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Halx View Post
Have you ever successfully "saved" someone from a religion to atheism? If so, tell us about it.
Not intentionally. I don't personally think it would be ethical to be an evangelizing atheist. I'd much prefer people come to it on their own.

I've had more than a few incidents where people find out I'm atheist and start asking me questions. I'm not going to lie (unless it's an emergency), so I generally answer as best I can. For a few people, it seems to have lead them to change their minds. I don't like the idea of taking credit, though. They open the door and walk through.
Willravel is offline  
Old 08-31-2009, 02:15 PM   #44 (permalink)
Junkie
 
Location: My head.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lasereth View Post
I don't think there's any atheists who aren't interested in an afterlife. I mean come on, a never ending party of awesomeness? Just because you want something doesn't mean you can just start believing in something to get it. If it worked that way then everyone would have won the lottery.

The reason atheists don't believe in higher beings is because there is no evidence. Not because they want to be anti-mainstream, not because they hate religious people, but because there is simply no fucking evidence whatsoever. If a god came down to Earth one day and stood there before everyone and said, do this and that, follow this book and you will be orgasming for all eternity in my house, you better believe that every atheist in the whole world would be instantly religious.

The problem is that Christianity began thousands of years ago when people believed in magic and sorcerers and shit like that. You were killed if you were gay. Science was so infantile at this stage that the only way to explain and understand the world was to make shit up to make people feel better. It's ok that Jebediah died after eating rotten meat, he's going to heaven. Now we know why rotten meat is dangerous and we avoid it.

The only time humanity turns to religion is when they don't understand something. Look at the most famous scientists in history: they are atheists their whole lives until they can't figure out something. Then they say it must be a higher power. Then 50 or 100 years later, the problem they were stumped on is solved...by humans.
Quoted for fuckin' Genius!

I mean the bible is especially crafted to target those with self esteem issues. It says, if you don't believe in Heysus your a fool. By default, all Muslims, Jews, Buddhists and especially Atheists are fuckin idiots who are just asking to go to hell!
Xerxys is offline  
Old 08-31-2009, 11:00 PM   #45 (permalink)
<3 TFP
 
xepherys's Avatar
 
Location: 17TLH2445607250
This is a pretty interesting thread. I consider myself spiritual, but not religious. I find that religion breads zealotry and intolerance, often without intent. I believe that it's very possible there is an afterlife, or some spiritual existence outside of our mortal coil. In fact, I find it appalling that any intelligent, thinking person could be a gnostic atheist. If science is your basis of belief, then this is further ridiculous.

Ponder this... science (even hard science) is ever changing. Laws of physics are bent or broken. Most scientists consider it good science to hold theory over law, as theories are designed to be built upon. I believe a good scientist believes that what is proven is ONLY proven to the best of our current ability, and is equally likely to be disproven later. This applies to god, God, angels, demons, spirits, ghosts, yeti, et cetera. I'm pretty much agnostic with life in general. What I see may or may not really exist, as may something I do not. I can only live my life in accord with what I see fit.

Maybe I am an agnostic agnostic. I consider myself a realist... or preferably EXTREMELY pragmatic. If God, in the Abrahimic version, exists... it is equally likely that other deity do as well. Frankly, I believe the bible claims, as I read it, that other gods DO exist beside God, Allah, whatever. Consider this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Exodus 20:5
You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I the Lord your God am a jealous God, punishing children for the iniquity of parents, to the third and the fourth generation of those who reject me,
What purpose would an omnipotent, omniscient being have for jealousy if none were his equal?

At any rate, just my 2¢
__________________
The prospect of achieving a peace agreement with the extremist group of MILF is almost impossible...
-- Emmanuel Pinol, Governor of Cotobato


My Homepage
xepherys is offline  
Old 09-01-2009, 04:29 AM   #46 (permalink)
MSD
The sky calls to us ...
 
MSD's Avatar
 
Super Moderator
Location: CT
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xerxys View Post
^^ Atheists don't do that. Were normal people.
Have you been on the Internet for long? A vocal minority of atheists are every bit as evangelical as religious people who scream at you that you're going to hell.
MSD is offline  
Old 09-01-2009, 06:01 AM   #47 (permalink)
Junkie
 
Iliftrocks's Avatar
 
Location: Near Raleigh, NC
Quote:
Originally Posted by MSD View Post
Have you been on the Internet for long? A vocal minority of atheists are every bit as evangelical as religious people who scream at you that you're going to hell.
I have seen pretty vehemently opinionated atheists, but never an evangelizing one. I know they exist, but you can't open facebook or any forum without being lambasted by evangelizing xtians telling you about hellfire and the weeping and gnashing of teeth.

What I see most often is people wanting evidence or honestly answered questions, of which there are no valid, evidence based answers. And then the questioners are told they are going to hell. A big winner of an answer is the circular "It's true because it's in the bible, and god wrote the bible, cause that's what the bible says...."

I think you might just be taking offense at the opinions stated, and it makes you feel as if you are being oppressed somehow.
__________________
bill hicks - "I don't mean to sound bitter, cold, or cruel, but I am, so that's how it comes out."
Iliftrocks is offline  
Old 09-01-2009, 06:14 AM   #48 (permalink)
Devoted
 
Redlemon's Avatar
 
Donor
Location: New England
Quote:
Originally Posted by SecretMethod70 View Post
You can see, Pascal's Wager is a ludicrous reason for belief. It's impossible to worship all gods, since many require that you worship no other gods, and it is equally unknowable whether or not there is any god at all as it is unknowable whether or not you are worshipping the correct god.
Pascal's Wager has always bothered me, but I never took the time to puzzle it out. Thanks for this clarification on it.
__________________
I can't read your signature. Sorry.
Redlemon is offline  
Old 09-01-2009, 06:26 AM   #49 (permalink)
warrior bodhisattva
 
Baraka_Guru's Avatar
 
Super Moderator
Location: East-central Canada
Will, these questions will be answered differently atheist to atheist, so I pose this to you rather than atheists in general:

What is the source of your morality? What is your benchmark for determining what is right and wrong? What are your influences in terms of how to live a good life?
__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot
Baraka_Guru is offline  
Old 09-01-2009, 06:43 AM   #50 (permalink)
Please touch this.
 
Halx's Avatar
 
Owner/Admin
Location: Manhattan
The source of my "morality" is rooted in my compassion. As humans, we feel empathy - it is part of why we naturally form communities.
__________________
You have found this post informative.
-The Administrator
[Don't Feed The Animals]
Halx is offline  
Old 09-01-2009, 07:14 AM   #51 (permalink)
Human
 
SecretMethod70's Avatar
 
Administrator
Location: Chicago
Atheist Revolution: Secular Humanist First, Atheist Second

Quote:
Secular Humanist First, Atheist Second


I am an atheist, but I am an atheist because I am first a secular humanist. Atheism is not my starting point but where secular humanism has led me. I focus this blog on criticizing religion and other forms of irrational belief, with Christian extremism spending the most time in my crosshairs. However, it is time to give secular humanism more of the attention it deserves.

What is Secular Humanism?

Secular Humanism is much broader than atheism and entails many things that atheism does not. This will be easy to grasp if you remember that atheism refers to nothing more than the lack of belief in any sort of gods. So what is secular humanism?

Start with humanism itself. According to Paul Kurtz, "Humanism is an ethical, scientific, and philosophical outlook" which can be traced "back to the philosophers and poets of ancient Greece and Rome, Confucian China, and the Charvaka movement in classical India." Humanism is an optimistic stance, entailing "confidence in the power of human beings to solve their own problems and conquer uncharted frontiers." We humanists believe that reason, science, and technology can benefit humanity and seek to promote their growth.

Secular humanism also entails scientific naturalism. That is, secular humanists are naturalists who reject the existence spiritual/supernatural entities because there is no evidence for any such entities. We maintain that reason is the path to knowledge and that faith has absolutely nothing to do with knowledge. It is not a different way of knowing because it is not a way of knowing at all - it has no bearing on knowledge.

Ethically, secular humanism has something important to offer. Our ethics are derived from reason rather than superstition. We recognize that some of the core ethical precepts (e.g., the "Golden Rule") predate Christianity, and we do not see this as a problem. We apply reason and science in evaluating and shaping our vales.

In the political realm, secular humanists seek to foster democracy. We value human rights and believe that such rights apply to all humans. Thus, we are committed to humanity and are unlikely to get caught up in the idiocy of patriotism to the point that it blinds us to global issues. We strive to promote human dignity and respect, and we find that inherently divisive religious dogma is more of a hindrance here than an asset.

Why Does Secular Humanism Come First?

If you ask me why I am an atheist, the core of any response I will give you is that my application of reason and science gives me no reason whatsoever to accept the theistic belief claim (i.e., that any sort of god or gods exist). But why do I believe that reason and science are valid ways of acquiring knowledge while blind faith is not? This takes us to secular humanism.

Even if I respond by telling you that I do not believe because belief is harmful, skillful questioning will inevitably lead me to stating the value that I believe that it is healthier to embrace reality rather than superstition. Again, this is secular humanism. I am an atheist because I am a secular humanist. Applying the principles of secular humanism leads me to atheism.

This does not diminish the value of atheism in any way, however, it does highlight the need for recognition that atheism alone is not a sufficient worldview. In fact, it really isn't a worldview or a belief system at all. Secular humanism is a belief system and a worldview, one that includes atheism.

The Real Value of Secular Humanism

Secular humanism is optimistic, but this optimism is rooted in reality. Unlike the naive optimism associated with some religions, secular humanists are optimistic about human capabilities and realize that the responsibility rests solely with us to improve our world. We wait for no rapture, nirvana, or 72 virgins (not that I'd turn down 72 virgins, mind you). We take on the problems facing humanity ourselves and realize that our successes or failures will determine the outcome. This is both humbling and empowering at the same time.

We have reason and science on our side. We have common sense and education on our side. We are secular because this is where reason takes us. We welcome an interaction between science and values and have no need to constrain progress or discriminate against others based on the ambiguous words in some ancient book. We are vibrant, passionate, and living in harmony with reality. Secular humanism is to be celebrated. It is time to get the word out.

To learn more about secular humanism, visit the Council for Secular Humanism or the American Humanist Association.
__________________
Le temps détruit tout

"Musicians are the carriers and communicators of spirit in the most immediate sense." - Kurt Elling

Last edited by SecretMethod70; 09-01-2009 at 07:16 AM..
SecretMethod70 is offline  
Old 09-01-2009, 07:22 AM   #52 (permalink)
warrior bodhisattva
 
Baraka_Guru's Avatar
 
Super Moderator
Location: East-central Canada
I've considered myself a secular humanist for a while now. What's interesting is that much of my morality is actually based on Judeo-Christian values intuitively (via the dominant culture) and Buddhist values by design (adult exploration of morality).
__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot
Baraka_Guru is offline  
Old 09-01-2009, 10:11 AM   #53 (permalink)
... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.
 
Willravel's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Baraka_Guru View Post
What is the source of your morality?
Three things:
1) Millions of years of social development. Evolutionary or biological altruism developed because humans are a social species and cooperation was absolutely necessary for the survival of the species. It took more than one cave-man to take down a mammoth or to fight off a saber-tooth tiger. Because our numbers were so important, it was necessary for survival to help other members of your tribe or roving band to also survive.
2) The social contract. A part of living in society means that everyone has necessary social rules that we observe in order to maintain order. If you hurt someone or steal from someone, you breach the social rules and face real consequences.
3) "Be the change you want to see in the world" A principle I discovered that really appealed to me was a Mahatma Gandhi quote. Assuming my own standards are acceptable, modeling those standards to other people spreads a better example of the social contract.
Also, it makes me happy to be "good".
Quote:
Originally Posted by Baraka_Guru View Post
What is your benchmark for determining what is right and wrong?
There are common moral rules for most human civilizations. Do unto others, don't murder, don't steal, don't lie, etc., are all fairly common parts of human social contracts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Baraka_Guru View Post
What are your influences in terms of how to live a good life?
Innately, it's the morality and ethics that are built in, but consciously it's pleasurable. I like helping people and being good.
Willravel is offline  
Old 09-01-2009, 10:14 AM   #54 (permalink)
follower of the child's crusade?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redlemon View Post
Pascal's Wager has always bothered me, but I never took the time to puzzle it out. Thanks for this clarification on it.

Have you ever heard of "Broadhurts' wager"?

Basically that it a waste of time to follow a religious life, because if God does exist He would surely forgive you (being a good and just God), and if He
does not the religious life means you have denied yourself many base pleasures.
__________________
"Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate,
for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing
hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain
without being uncovered."

The Gospel of Thomas
Strange Famous is offline  
Old 09-01-2009, 09:44 PM   #55 (permalink)
bad craziness
 
m0rpheus's Avatar
 
Location: Guelph, Ontario
Quote:
Originally Posted by Halx View Post
Have you ever successfully "saved" someone from a religion to atheism? If so, tell us about it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xerxys View Post
^^ Atheists don't do that. Were normal people.
I can't speak for anyone else but I don't do that. I really truly hate (and was reminded by the woman who knocked on my door this morning) when people try to save my poor confused soul, so it would be pretty hypocritical of me to do the reverse now wouldn't it?
__________________
"it never got weird enough for me." - Hunter S. Thompson
m0rpheus is offline  
Old 09-02-2009, 04:52 AM   #56 (permalink)
Devoted
 
Redlemon's Avatar
 
Donor
Location: New England
Quote:
Originally Posted by Strange Famous View Post
Have you ever heard of "Broadhurts' wager"?

Basically that it a waste of time to follow a religious life, because if God does exist He would surely forgive you (being a good and just God), and if He
does not the religious life means you have denied yourself many base pleasures.
Never heard of it, thanks!
__________________
I can't read your signature. Sorry.
Redlemon is offline  
 

Tags
atheist


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 12:31 PM.

Tilted Forum Project

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2
© 2002-2012 Tilted Forum Project

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 102 103 104 105 106 107 108 109 110 111 112 113 114 115 116 117 118 119 120 121 122 123 124 125 126 127 128 129 130 131 132 133 134 135 136 137 138 139 140 141 142 143 144 145 146 147 148 149 150 151 152 153 154 155 156 157 158 159 160 161 162 163 164 165 166 167 168 169 170 171 172 173 174 175 176 177 178 179 180 181 182 183 184 185 186 187 188 189 190 191 192 193 194 195 196 197 198 199 200 201 202 203 204 205 206 207 208 209 210 211 212 213 214 215 216 217 218 219 220 221 222 223 224 225 226 227 228 229 230 231 232 233 234 235 236 237 238 239 240 241 242 243 244 245 246 247 248 249 250 251 252 253 254 255 256 257 258 259 260 261 262 263 264 265 266 267 268 269 270 271 272 273 274 275 276 277 278 279 280 281 282 283 284 285 286 287 288 289 290 291 292 293 294 295 296 297 298 299 300 301 302 303 304 305 306 307 308 309 310 311 312 313 314 315 316 317 318 319 320 321 322 323 324 325 326 327 328 329 330 331 332 333 334 335 336 337 338 339 340 341 342 343 344 345 346 347 348 349 350 351 352 353 354 355 356 357 358 359 360