Punk.of.Ages

Simple question: How do you feel about panhandlers?

When you run into a person asking for some spare change, no matter their reasoning, what's your usual answer?

Being as I spange (It's a mix of the words "spare" and "change. It seems this isn't a very common term.) quite often myself, I give any spare change I have, if any, away whenever approached. Same with cigarettes, a shot of my booze, anything. I don't necessarily believe in karma or anything. I just believe in helping people out because I know what it's like.

Also, when I spange, I usually do so by playing music on the corner. I make much more money this way, and, I'd say, rightfully so. On the other end, I'm much more willing to hand out more money if I'm being given a show in return.

Thoughts?

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dlish

i usually give about a dollar, sometimes more. if the person is busking and i see them regularly and its good music i enjoy, ill usually give every time.

if its someone i dont feel comfortable taking my wallet out in front of, ill just say "sorry no change"

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Punk.of.Ages

I like that term. Busking...

I've never heard it before.

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"The fact is that censorship always defeats its own purpose, for it creates, in the end, the kind of society that is incapable of exercising real discretion..." - Henry Steel Commager

"Punk rock music is great music played by really bad, drunk musicians." -Fat Mike

Martian

Busking is not even remotely the same as begging. I'm far more inclined to give to someone who I feel is attempting to earn my pittance. Even if the music (or other performance) is bad, I appreciate the effort involved.

I used to want to save the world. These days I give to beggars much less often. The ones who I am bothered by are the ones who seem to have a sense of entitlement.

EDIT - I believe that the term busking (and the related noun, busker) is mostly unused within the US, although it's quite common elsewhere. A busker is a performer. Busking is a career choice, albeit one of questionable legitimacy.

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Plan9

I rarely carry cash, so I tell them "only got plastic, man."

And that's assuming I'm not ignoring them.

Which I usually do for a solid reason.

And that is: they don't floss.

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Xerxys

^^ I always notice they don't clip their nails ...

Dude, sorry, I was in Raleigh for a short while and saw a performance group on the street. I stopped, observed their show, laughed, then went on my merry way. I download movies and music. This is so bad that I don't even watch a camera-copy-movie, I wait for it to be released on Axxo!! I only buy when I especially, like the title.

I'm afraid in not so many ways I'm the beggar with the entitlement. I WANT to be entertained, I just won't pay for it.

little_tippler

Busking is nothing like begging. In the UK it's performing, and getting some extra change for it, though there are those who 'busk' for a living. Many times buskers are people who play music, to get some spare change sure, but busking has also become a way for starting musicians to get heard or practice in front of an audience. In the London underground, there are assigned pitches (spots) for buskers and they are scheduled by the underground authorities to be there. /threadjack

I am also more inclined to give people spare change if they are trying to earn it from me. Though I cannot bring myself to give change to the little boy who forces a chihuahua to sit on his shoulder with a makeshift coin collecting container in his mouth, while barely playing the accordeon.

I never give change to gypsies or their children, because they look perfectly healthy and able. Get a job. Also don't give change to an old lady who I know gives it to her junkie son. There are few beggars I feel I should give my money to.

To be honest, I rarely give away change like that. I have been known to give beggars the option to walk into a café and order some food, paid by me. That way I know where my money's going.

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Whether we write or speak or do but look
We are ever unapparent. What we are
Cannot be transfused into word or book.
Our soul from us is infinitely far.
However much we give our thoughts the will
To be our soul and gesture it abroad,
Our hearts are incommunicable still.
In what we show ourselves we are ignored.
The abyss from soul to soul cannot be bridged
By any skill of thought or trick of seeming.
Unto our very selves we are abridged
When we would utter to our thought our being.
We are our dreams of ourselves, souls by gleams,
And each to each other dreams of others' dreams.

Fernando Pessoa, 1918

Reese

I don't know how I feel about beggars. I live in Rural Kentucky and don't have people setting outside buildings asking for change. Every beggar I know has a home and is capable of getting a job or a crazy check. I think before you start begging, you should have to make every possible effort to conserve money. If you're spending 50 bucks a month of cigarettes, you don't deserve to borrow 5 bucks from me. I say borrow, because most people that come to me for money ask to borrow it, knowing they're not going to pay me back and are just going to come back and try to borrow more next week.

I'd probably toss some change to someone playing guitar or something. At least they're doing something.

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UnclearContent

I prefer them to make some effort. They are people begging on the off-ramps from expressways near my house and these people are better dressed than some folks I know that work jobs. There's a strong difference between doing a service (entertainment, shoe shine, windshield wash, etc.) and just standing on a corner waiting for handouts.

As a side story: my little brother was on leave from a deployment in Iraq. We're sitting at a gas station and a man walks up to us. He asks us for some money, says he wants to get sandwich and a cold beer. My little brother hands the guy a $20 bill. He looked at me after the guy walked away and said he did it because the guy was honest, he said he wanted beer, and he would never deny another man a cold beer.

inBOIL

I just walk by and say 'no.' Sometimes I make eye contact to do it, sometimes I don't. I find that there's never any follow-up when I make eye contact.

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genuinegirly

Gave a lady produce once (banana, orange) because that's all I had on hand.

Living in Berkeley made me less responsive to beggars. They were waiting every five feet and if I had given something to each of them, I would be without dinner myself.

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Halx

I will only give them food if I have it on me. That happens fairly often because the place I get lunch from makes gigantic sandwiches.

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Cynthetiq

I think buskers add to the city. Americans tend to call them street performers, well, sure, but it really isn't the same. I believe that when I walk without my ipod on, the buskers provide the soundtrack of the city. Depending on where I am, it can be Chinese insturments to sitars, diggerdoos to bagpipes. It's rather diverse and amazing.

Pearls Before Breakfast - washingtonpost.com
you can listen to the performance here, it's amazingly beautiful.

but this isn't about buskers, this is about people asking for spare change.

I recently got a free book, called Push Comes to Shove by Concord Free Press, who gives their books away for free. In exchange they want the recipient of the book to donate the proceeds to anyone, anything and pay it backward. When done give the book to someone else to do the same thing.

So, in doing so, I've been giving $.50 to some guy sitting in the same spot on Spring Street for the past few months. Each time I see him, I give him $.50.

Otherwise, no, do not give spare change to someone. I know that "homeless" people in NYC can make hundreds of dollars a day. It's not just NYC, it's everywhere.

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Bear Cub

I think they make great toilets.

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Tully Mars

Several years ago I was walking through Reno with my brother a man approached us and said "Hey, ya got any money? Not gonna lie, I need a drink." I told him sorry and kept walking as I looked over my should I saw my brother hand him a $5 chip. Being that my normal impression of my brother is that a crowbar and a stick of dynamite couldn't separate him from a nickel I about fell over. I asked him why he decided this guy deserved his cash. "First time one of them didn't lie to me." I guess there's a case for that, but not how I'd share my chips.

Personally I give change to what we call the "rag men." Guys standing in a parking lot directing traffic and "helping" you back out. I've never needed help getting out of a parking lot but it's usually about 100 outside, they usually seem sober. I figure they wouldn't be doing it if they could find better work. I also give to the "baggers" school age children that bag your groceries here. They're always polite and helpful. I have little doubt most would rather be in school, but families that need the money have their kids do this. Sometimes I buy a Coke or a candy bar and hand it to them with my change.

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Punk.of.Ages

The whole "Buy me a beer.", "Okay, at least you're honest." bit has become so known that I usually tell people I need money for booze even if I actually am going to use it for food.

Funny how people work, eh...

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"The fact is that censorship always defeats its own purpose, for it creates, in the end, the kind of society that is incapable of exercising real discretion..." - Henry Steel Commager

"Punk rock music is great music played by really bad, drunk musicians." -Fat Mike

little_tippler

Tully, I hate those beggars who pretend they're helping you park! Here in Lisbon they have the nerve to try and do it in parking meter areas. As if it wasn't enough to put coins in the machine, Now I have to give it some guy who has decided that this is his territory. They never helped me park....did I say I need help? I park fine on my own thanks.

__________________
Whether we write or speak or do but look
We are ever unapparent. What we are
Cannot be transfused into word or book.
Our soul from us is infinitely far.
However much we give our thoughts the will
To be our soul and gesture it abroad,
Our hearts are incommunicable still.
In what we show ourselves we are ignored.
The abyss from soul to soul cannot be bridged
By any skill of thought or trick of seeming.
Unto our very selves we are abridged
When we would utter to our thought our being.
We are our dreams of ourselves, souls by gleams,
And each to each other dreams of others' dreams.

Fernando Pessoa, 1918

mrklixx

I've seen several different news stories on how the off-ramp "down on my luck" sign people make like $300-$400 a day, then blow almost all of it on booze, cigs, and drugs.

There is a man and woman couple that I see all the time around here that have been doing it for at least 15 years.

The major metropolitan area I live near hosts a great big 4th of July Festival every year. I don't attend them anymore because I don't like crowds and heat, but several years ago I went fairly regularly. So one year I went with some friends, and because of the crowds we had to park pretty far away from the main area. So on our hike up to the area a guy comes up to us and tels us that he has run out of gas, and his wife and kids are baking in the hot car, and could he bum a cuople of dollars so he can get his kids home. Now, I don't know about anyone else, but I seem to attract beggars, so I know that the "my car broke down/ran out of gas" schtick is beggar 101. One of the guys in our group was not to bright and he gives the guy $5. Like I said, this was many years ago, it would have been at least half a tank of gas. So when the guy leaves, we tell our buddy "you know he's gonna buy booze with that money", but he would't believe us. So one year later, I'm at the festival again, with a different group of people, when guess who walks up to us in a parking garage? The same dude, with the same story. I said to him "Didn't you run out of gas here last year?" And he was like "Nah, man I'm from out of town, I don't even live around here". And knowing that he was pretty much busted, and was not getting any cash, he scampered off to harass some other people in the garage.


I think that the fear/annoyance factor is a big part of it. I think alot of people would rather shell out a buck than risk some kind of escelation.

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settie

I haven't carried change/cash in a long time. I don't need to anymore, thank god. When I have to carry cash, its spent immediately. It just prevents me from wasting my money on shit.

So, when someone asks for change, I obviously don't have anything to give. Rarely, will a person come to me hungry and asking for money. if they did, I'd buy them a burger or something, but I wouldn't give them money even if I had it.

My city is strange like that though. there's a couple of men that stand on mainstreet islands on the road, dragging their foot or limping (real or fake, I dunno), with a sign, asking for change. my city has plenty of homeless shelters, food banks, etc, so most people that really need help, are taken care of.

JumpinJesus

I'm with you. If some lazy ass mentally unstable mooch wants my dollar, I dangle it in front of him/her and make them do a little tap dance. The best part is the pride they feel in knowing they earned that dollar. Plus, it gives the tourists and bystanders a little free entertainment. I'll throw in an extra quarter if they're in a wheel chair or missing a limb.

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Tully Mars

I can see both sides of it. I park fine on my own too. And no I wouldn't pay for a metered spot. But there's most certainly not enough work to go around here and I just don't think they'd do it if they could find other work. Most people I know give them a peso, which right now is about .07 US. If these guys clear $10 a day I'd be shocked. I also think they really need it, that it's going to a home and a family. If I thought it was going for booze or drugs I wouldn't give them anything.

This area is different then any other I've lived. The house next door to me probably has 15 rooms, beach front and huge pool. It's not uncommon to see $200K cars parked there. Directly across the street is a tar paper shack with no running water, phone or elec. The lady of the tar paper house walks every morning over to the beach front mansion. She spends all day there, I assume cleaning and cooking. Her kids never play with the kids in the other house.

This is the land of have and have not. Those that have, really have. Those that don't really don't.

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lostgirl

Living is San Francisco, I know better than to feed the bears. There are plenty of programs where they can get everything then need to live.

I once used to talk to this old homeless guy with a dog. He told me he made about $300 a day panhandling, which he used to buy heroin. He lived in a cave and people always gave the dog scraps, so he could use all his money on booze and drugs.

I hate dealing with aggressive panhandlers, I told one I didn't have any change and he told me to go buy something else. A guy once asked me for money for food, and I gave him some food I had just gotten from the place I worked and he acted really upset.

People who do a service or preform I sometimes give something to. I used to give a lot more, but I have become a lot more jaded as time goes on.

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Punk.of.Ages

You know, it kind of pisses me off that panhandlers are generalized as junkies who will only spend any money you give them on drugs. I understand why, and I'll admit that usually when I spange it's for booze, but, I state that it's for beer.

It's just a little aggravating that that's the way it has to be.

__________________
"The fact is that censorship always defeats its own purpose, for it creates, in the end, the kind of society that is incapable of exercising real discretion..." - Henry Steel Commager

"Punk rock music is great music played by really bad, drunk musicians." -Fat Mike

canuckguy

If the person is entertaining people and making an effort than I'll give up some coin but just standing there or sitting begging? No thanks, never and fuck off and get away from me.

I work in the downtown core so I get to see, hear and smell it all. I think I am immune and now a bit callus now towards beggars.

I use to ask the local outdoors men (better than calling them what i really want too) if they can count or ask them to recite there abc's. If they can I tell them mcdonalds is always hiring and no coin is given. Sorry I am all for social services helping out our more lazier people of society, that is why I pay taxes.

Ratman

Here in Japan I have never seen nor heard of anyone being asked for money. You see the homeless at the stations and in the parks, but they keep to themselves. They feel as if they are an embarrassment to Society because they failed in some way to make their life work. I don't think they would take money if you offered it.

The train/subway stations here are full of buskers, even in fairly small towns. They never have any sign/hat/open instrument case/etc. implying that they are looking for money. They are usually younger people hoping to be discovered.

The only "begging" for money I've seen here is the occasional Buddhist monk. They will stand in a non-obtrusive place in the station and chant their sutras, quietly, for hours while holding a wooden bowl in one hand, the other raised in prayer. They don't move or make eye contact, even if you drop in some coins.

Things may be different in the big cities like Tokyo and Osaka, but even when I've visited there, I've never seen panhandling. I don't miss it.

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sanity_advocate

Never.

It's going to cigarettes, beer, and drugs. I won't support it. The homeless eat found food, they *buy* alcohol/beer/drugs.

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Vigilante

I lived on the street once or twice, for short periods of time. I survived on my own, rather than waiting for some bleeding heart to give me a handout. Did I steal? Yep, but I stole with dignity. I broke into an establishment after hours (franchise business), made my dinner, washed the dishes and silverware well (and dried them) then put everything back right where I got it. I took only what I needed, plus a bag of chips for the road. I behaved like an employee. I locked the door back on the way out, so that I might come back at a later date if I needed to (and I did). I was a kid, that is not the way I am now.

Was it right? No, but the impact was extremely minimal. At least I made an effort to stay alive, rather than sit on my ass, beg and get sunburned all day long.

But back to the topic. Do I give out change? Sometimes. I give mostly if it's convenient for me. Just like any other business model, you have to be convenient to the one giving you the money. I would give more to a waiter or waitress than I would a bum, even if I was being served a mcdonalds burger. At least the person waiting on me is trying, unlike the guy sitting on the roadside who could be serving someone, but prefers to wait for a handout.

I think homeless people should be picked up and put to work for the city where they reside. If they are mentally unstable but can be treated with medication, then they should be treated then put to work as well. Earn your dollar, then once you get a taste of real work and the paycheck from it, you might have a reason to strike out and find a real job. Sure they can have state benefits and stuff too, but work they shall! Dig a damn ditch, at least they are earning their keep. Handicapped vet? sort envelopes. Whatever it takes.

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Xerxys

^^ I'm with you, let's hit the next fargo truck ...

CinnamonGirl

Buskers ALWAYS get money from me.


I always try to give spare change, but I don't always have it. *shrug* I'm a big softy, what can I say?

I was in Boston, once, though, and went to pull out a dollar...and pulled out a twenty. The guy was trying to get me to give him THAT. I was like, "Dude...c'mon. I need to eat, too!"

I still felt bad, though...he was going to sleep in the street that night, and I'd be sleeping in a nice soft hotel bed.

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Xerxys

^^ Sure you should also feel bad for me seeing as the McD's is closed and I was never able to get that doublecheese burger earlier!! Can I get a 20 for my bad luck?

Vigilante

Hey you make the bed you lie in. Literally in some cases. I feel less pity for the guy and more pity for the dog some of them keep with them. You know the dog is eating shitty or improper food.

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Corneo

I never give money. But there was a time I gave a bum food. He was standing on the corner of mcdonalds in the morning. I went into to pickup breakfast and I figure I buy an extra sandwich. The look on his face when I handed him the sandwich made my day. He thanked me and ate the sandwich within 5 seconds.

dlish

if its a busker, i have no problem with them doing whatever they want to spend their money on, albeit alcohol/drugs etc.

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Redlemon

I only donate to organizations that help the homeless, not to the homeless themselves.

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thespian86

there is a guy in Toronto, on the corner of Bay and Bloor, who just sticks a hand outside of his sleeping bag. No head. No sign. Just a hand.

I'm severely mentally ill. I grew up in a questionable household. I hate working.

I don't give change.

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BigBen

Naw, I don't give money.

I have to add that I feel bad when I don't. The whole New Testament "what you do to the least of my brothers, you do unto me" thing.

Sometimes I wonder if God puts homeless people there as a test to me. And then I feel really bad because I 'fail' every time.

Bummer.

I'd rather give my money to the TFP.

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biznatch

There's a lot of thing in the subway that annoy me more than the homeless.
There's those motherfuckers standing at 125th(4-5-6) street station, holding a bible, yelling at everyone about some dude in the sky who loves us all, and telling us that sinners will be punished. There's those same people doing it in a crowded car, when really, who gives a flying fuck?? Stop yelling, if we really care we'll go to church on our own time.
There's the scientologists, often in the same station, without the word scientology anywhere, testing your souls with e-meters, and giving you brochures to lure you in their trap.

The people I like the most are the drummers, guitarrists, and showmen of the streets. There's this drummer, I think he goes by the name of the street king. Black, very muscular, plays on buckets. I don't care if he needs the money or not to survive. He has a smile on his face, he's nice to everyone around, and he's working hard for his money and sweating. I give him money every time if I have it.

Some homeless people I've taken the time to stop and talk with them for a while, and I've met some really good people. If I have half a bagel, and somebody asks me for food, I'll give it to them, because probably do need it more than me. Even if I'm definitely not rich, I can still make something to munch on once I get home. The equivalent for him/her would be to look in a garbage bin, and there's no such thing as home.

You gotta watch out though. The metro north station at 125th has people with the same story come up to you. They just got out of prison, and need to eat, or need to get a job. I've also seen "homeless" people fake injuries, and limps. They get really good at it.

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Jetée

I like the revived discussion on the topic... I don't have much of anything to add, because I still recall the discourse of the previous trip, and I'm sure my peace was made within it: http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/general...ght=panhandler


Like anything at all, there are times when I empathize with the disenfranchised, for there was a good (poor) time when I was right there with them. If I want to get to know the person better, I'll do so; I won't give them money, but my time and help are usually there to offer. To give someone on the street a few sheckles is just as comparable as giving a close friend a 5-spot inside a birthday card--it's an afterthought with little to no intention of communing with the person really.

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Punk.of.Ages

I swear, every time I make a thread, it's already been done...

I need to learn how to search.

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"The fact is that censorship always defeats its own purpose, for it creates, in the end, the kind of society that is incapable of exercising real discretion..." - Henry Steel Commager

"Punk rock music is great music played by really bad, drunk musicians." -Fat Mike

Jetée

Ah, I'm an archiver. It used to irk me to no end that others kept reposting the same things over and over again, but I learned to accept that some discussions need a different starting viewpoint because it offers another unique subset of opinionaters & chimers.

Don't feel bad because I found something in the past... I'm known to have a fear of creating new threads, so that's my cross.
(p.s. I didn't know exactly the thread I was looking for, but I searched for the rarely-used 'panhandler' term, and it popped right up)

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As human beings, our greatness lies not so much in being able to remake the world (that is the myth of the Atomic Age) as in being able to remake ourselves.

—Mohandas K. Gandhi