Why don't car drivers respect bicyclists? - Page 3 - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Dammitall · 05-17-2009, 02:07 PM

Since Snowy mentioned it earlier in the thread, I thought I'd post this video demonstrating the mechanics of the proposed Idaho Stop legislation that apparently failed in Oregon.

Bicycles, Rolling Stops, and the Idaho Stop on Vimeo

Judging from the post history on the thread, this won't do anything to win over the hearts of those who feel bikes don't belong on roads without lanes dedicated to their use, but as a cyclist that values my forward momentum, I feel this is a step in the right direction.

Hyacinthe · 05-18-2009, 03:06 AM

Most of the time I have no problem whatsoever with cyclists - I have friends and family that cycle absolutely everywhere - my parents both ride over 6km to work everyday for example.

When don't I respect cyclists? When they do dangerous things that put themselves, me and whoever is in the car with me at risk of an accident - when they are riding down the centre of a lane at under 30km, when they decide it's perfectly ok to ride across the road without checking for traffic, when they don't wear lights or reflective clothing of any kind and I'm meant to use my psychic powers to see them at night, when they ride to the very front of the lane while we're stopped at lights not realising that the entire reason motocycle riders do that is because they have a faster acceleration then most cars which the majority of cyclists do not.

Take everything I hate about pedestrians while I'm driving and add the belief that they belong on the road and you get about 90% of cyclists it seems. The ones that tell me when they're turning (indicate), wear protective gear and obey road rules I have no grudge towards. Unfortunately as seems to be so often the case it's those responsisble cyclists that seem to be in the minority.

I should probably add that the majority of the ity I am living in has specially built bicycle pathways next to almost every major road (not on highways or freeways) this means the path is built out of larger blocks is smooth (as opposed to paving) and 2 or 3 times as wide as a pedestrian footpath - cyclists just decide to use the road anyways.

wooÐs · 06-14-2009, 09:38 AM

Here on my side of town, the cyclists don't respect the drivers. They think just because they're on a bike, stop signs don't apply to them, which last time I checked, they're supposed to abide by these signs just like every other person.

And they insist on riding down roads with heavy traffic when they'd do themselves and everyone else a huge favor by keeping their sport for subdivisions or parks.

Plus I don't like spandex.

squeeeb · 06-14-2009, 10:39 AM

there are assclowns on both sides of the story, but the ones in the cars seem to outnumber the cyclists.

i've had people tell me how they hate cyclists on the road and how when they see them they like to drive up close to them and push them off the road. they are so cute when they find out i'm a cyclist who commutes and rides all over. i think they are jealous. they are sitting in traffic while cyclists are whizzing past them, they are in thier car while cyclists are in the fresh air. they are spending money on gas, etc etc.

i could never figure out why me on a bicycle is a threat to a dude in a huge truck, enough so he gets close to me, revs his engine, call me faggot, etc. and i don't even wear lycra shorts or a cycling jersey.

Cynthetiq · 06-14-2009, 11:04 AM

here are my reasons:

Hunter College Bicycle Study in NYC

The other day I was on the sidewalk walking down the street when a bicyclist on the SIDEWALK actually was MAD that I was in their way. The other day I was crossing with the light, and a bicyclist shouted at me because they were running the light and wanted to alert me that they were going to cross in front of me.

squeeeb · 06-14-2009, 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cynthetiq

here are my reasons:

The other day I was on the sidewalk walking down the street when a bicyclist on the SIDEWALK actually was MAD that I was in their way.

that guy is an assclown who needs to be punched. it bothers me when i see adults on bicycles on the sidewalk. adults riding a bicycle on the sidewalk are as ignorant as the ones in the cars who get angry that a cyclist is on "their" road. grrrrr, humans make me so angry sometimes.

filtherton · 06-14-2009, 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cynthetiq

here are my reasons:

Hunter College Bicycle Study in NYC

Just my opinion, but these aren't very reasonable reasons to not respect bicyclists.

First of all, if you are going to base your level of respect for an entire mode of transportation based on operator adherence to traffic laws, you wouldn't respect anyone.

It has been my personal experience that everyone, cyclists, drivers and pedestrians routinely violate traffic laws. And why wouldn't they? The important criteria is risk (consequences x probability of getting caught/injured)- it is generally no more risky for a cyclist to run a red light than it is for a pedestrian to jaywalk or for an automobile to exceed the posted speed limit by 5-15 mph.

These routine violations of traffic law only become an issue when they are done carelessly. Carelessness is a human attribute, it isn't the sole domain of the cyclist. I think that most people who attribute their disdain for cyclists to some sort of chaste notion traffic law conformity are full of shit.

Second, the act of basing your respect for individuals on general statistics is a symptom of a lazy mind. I mean, it's one thing to use statistical descriptions of how people behave to form public policy. It's another to use those same descriptions to preemptively dismiss people you've never even met.

Cynthetiq · 07-02-2009, 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by filtherton

Just my opinion, but these aren't very reasonable reasons to not respect bicyclists.

First of all, if you are going to base your level of respect for an entire mode of transportation based on operator adherence to traffic laws, you wouldn't respect anyone.

It has been my personal experience that everyone, cyclists, drivers and pedestrians routinely violate traffic laws. And why wouldn't they? The important criteria is risk (consequences x probability of getting caught/injured)- it is generally no more risky for a cyclist to run a red light than it is for a pedestrian to jaywalk or for an automobile to exceed the posted speed limit by 5-15 mph.

These routine violations of traffic law only become an issue when they are done carelessly. Carelessness is a human attribute, it isn't the sole domain of the cyclist. I think that most people who attribute their disdain for cyclists to some sort of chaste notion traffic law conformity are full of shit.

Second, the act of basing your respect for individuals on general statistics is a symptom of a lazy mind. I mean, it's one thing to use statistical descriptions of how people behave to form public policy. It's another to use those same descriptions to preemptively dismiss people you've never even met.

It's not as simple as that filth. It's just a matter of expectation. I expect cars and taxis to act a particular way in Manhattan. I know that taxis will cross 3 lanes of traffic to catch a fare. I know that cars will make left turns from the right lane in heavily trafficked area.

If I'm crossing the ONE way street I'm not expecting ANY moving traffic to be coming at me from a different direction than the ONE way that all the vehicles are coming from. I can't tell you how many times I've been almost hit or yelled at to "Watch it!" from a biker going down the ONE way street from the wrong direction. Apparently according to your posts, I'm the asshole for doing the normal codified behavior, and the deviating behavior is the one that's in the right.

So this group is trying to do something about it.

Quote:

View: NY1 For You: Cycling Group Tries To Break Bad Habits
Source: NY1
posted with the TFP thread generator

NY1 For You: Cycling Group Tries To Break Bad Habits

NY1 For You: Cycling Group Tries To Break Bad Habits

By: Susan Jhun

With more and more New Yorkers choosing cycling as a viable mode of transportation, concern over cyclists who do not obey the rules of the road, has pedestrians and one local cycling advocate group speaking out. NY1's Susan Jhun filed the following NY1 For You report.

The city saw a 35 percent jump in the number of commuter cyclists last year alone, and while that contributes to greener city, there is growing concern over cyclists who do not adhere to the rules of the road.

"Generally, I think a lot of cyclists don't follow the same rules that everybody else seems to follow," said pedestrian Kevin Jones.

Most pedestrians say the biggest problem they see are cyclists going the wrong way down a road.

"It's easier to just take the bike lane and go the wrong way on an avenue," said cyclist Luana Halpern. "Or, if you're close to somewhere and you don't want to go two avenues out of your way and come back, sometimes you have to take it in the wrong direction."

Cycling advocate group Transportation Alternatives is trying to reform this behavior.

"If you're coming the wrong way down a one-way street, pedestrians, drivers, other cyclists aren't accustomed to looking for you and that has a negative impact on your safety," said Wiley Norvell of Transportation Alternatives. "And it has a negative impact on the safety of everyone around you."

Safety is one of the core messages the group hopes to communicate to cyclists through its new civic cycling campaign called Biking Rules.

"This is a great way for cyclists to find out not just what the rules of the road are but why they are," Norvell said. "Explaining to a cyclist why going the wrong way down and one way street is really problematic."

Going the wrong way down a one-way street is not only unsafe, it's also illegal. According to New York State Vehicle and Traffic Law, a bicycle operator is subject to the same laws that apply to the drivers, which means if you're riding the wrong way down a street or bike lane, you can be ticketed.

For more information on safe cycling and biking rules, visit BikingRules.org.

for the benefit of those others to know what the laws are...

Quote:

Rules of the Road

Safe city cycling means knowing the rules of the road that apply to cyclists. Not only will following the rules keep us safe and traffic-ticket free, but it will also have a positive impact on the overall safety of the streets. After all, we'll have to give respect in order to get it in return. Read up, these are our biking rules!
Key:
VTL= Vehicle and Traffic Law (New York State)
RCNY= Rules of the City of New York
AC= Administrative Code (NYC)
For a link to the NYC Department of Transportation's list of Laws click here.
NYC CYCLISTS' RIGHTS AND RESPONSIBILITIES
VTL § 1231 Bicyclists are granted all of the rights and are subject to all of the duties of the driver of a motor vehicle.
RCNY § 4-02 (a) The provisions of N.Y.C. Traffic Rules are applicable to bicycles and their operators.
RCNY § 4-12 (h) Cyclists involved in accidents resulting in death or injury to person or damage to property must stop and give name, address, insurance information, etc. and must report to the Police Department.
NYC TRAFFIC RULES PROTECTING CYCLISTS
RCNY § 4-08 (e)(9) It is against the law to park, stand or stop within or otherwise obstruct bike lanes.
RCNY § 4-12(p) Other vehicles shall not drive on or across bike lanes.
RCNY § 4-12(c) It is illegal to get out of a vehicle in a manner which endangers cyclists (often referred to as "dooring").
VTL § 1146 Drivers to exercise due care to avoid colliding with any bicyclist, upon any roadway and shall give warning by sounding the horn when necessary.
REQUIRED EQUIPMENT FOR NYC CYCLISTS
VTL § 1236 (a) and (e) Bicycles must have a white headlight, a red taillight and reflectors between dusk and dawn.
(b) Bicycles must have a bell or other audible signal.
(c) Bicycles must have working brakes.
(d) Bicycles must have reflectors, reflective tires and/or other reflective devices.
VTL § 1238 (a) Children under 14 but older than 5 must wear an approved helmet.
(b) A child under one is not permitted to ride on a bicycle.
(c) A child one or more years of age but less than 5 must wear an approved helmet and be carried in a properly affixed child carrier.
VTL § 375 (24)(a) Cyclists may not wear more than one earphone attached to a radio, tape player or other audio device while riding.
AC § 10-157 Bicycles used for commercial purposes.
Working cyclists must wear business identifying information on bike and body, including operator's identification number.
Business must provide working cyclist with a helmet accroding to A.N.S.I. or Snell standards.
Working cyclists shall wear the helmet provided by business.
Working cylist must carry and produce on demand a numbered ID card that included operator's photo, name, home address and business' name, address and phone number.
Working cyclist must abide by all equipment requirements stated in VTL 1236.
Business nust maintain log book that includes the name, identification number and place of residence of each working cyclist; and the date of employment and discharge. The log book must also include information on daily trips, identifying the working cyclist's identification number and name; and name and place of origin and destination.
Owner of business must file an annual report with the Police Department identifying the number of bicycles it owns and the identification number and identity or any employees.
BICYCLE RIDING RULES IN NYC

RCNY § 4-12 (p) Bicyclists may ride on either side of one-way roadways that are at least 40 feet wide.
RCNY § 4-12 (p) Bicyclists should ride in usable bike lanes, unless they are blocked or unsafe for any reason.
VTL § 1234 Cyclists must ride by the right hand curb and no more than two abreast. Does not apply in new York City. It is specifically superseded by 34 RCNY 4-02 (e).
AC § 19-176 Bicycles ridden on sidewalks may be confiscated and riders may be subject to legal sanctions (see also: RCNY § 4-07(c)(3)).
RCNY § 4-07 (c)(3) No driving bikes on sidewalks unless sign allows or wheels are less than 26 inches in diameter and ride is twelve years or younger (see also: AC § 19-176).
Greenways When riding on greenways, stay on designated paths. No bicycle riding is permitted on pedestrian paths unless otherwise indicated. Violators are subject to fines and confiscation of their bicycles.
RCNY § 4-14 (c) No person shall ride a bicycle in any park, except in places designated for bike riding; but persons may push bikes in single file to and from such places, except on beaches and boardwalks.
RCNY § 4-12 (o) Bicycles are prohibited on expressways, drives, highways, interstate routes, bridges and thruways unless authorized by signs.
VTL § 1237 When turn signals are required, left turns shall be signaled with the left hand, and right turns may be signaled with either hand. [see the Biking Rules Hand Signals Section]
VTL § 1233 Clinging to vehicles or attaching bike to another vehicle being operated on roadway is prohibited.
RCNY § 4-12 (e) Cyclists must have at least one hand on handlebars at all times.
VTL § 1232 Cyclists must ride on a permanent seat, feet must be on pedals, and bike must carry only the number of persons for which it is designed and equipped.

---------- Post added at 12:56 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:54 AM ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by spinelust

Since Snowy mentioned it earlier in the thread, I thought I'd post this video demonstrating the mechanics of the proposed Idaho Stop legislation that apparently failed in Oregon.

Bicycles, Rolling Stops, and the Idaho Stop on Vimeo

Judging from the post history on the thread, this won't do anything to win over the hearts of those who feel bikes don't belong on roads without lanes dedicated to their use, but as a cyclist that values my forward momentum, I feel this is a step in the right direction.

re: the rolling stops, well cars are most efficient in the same manner and for the same reasons. Why wouldn't you give them the same kind of pass?

filtherton · 07-08-2009, 05:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cynthetiq

It's not as simple as that filth. It's just a matter of expectation. I expect cars and taxis to act a particular way in Manhattan. I know that taxis will cross 3 lanes of traffic to catch a fare. I know that cars will make left turns from the right lane in heavily trafficked area.

If I'm crossing the ONE way street I'm not expecting ANY moving traffic to be coming at me from a different direction than the ONE way that all the vehicles are coming from. I can't tell you how many times I've been almost hit or yelled at to "Watch it!" from a biker going down the ONE way street from the wrong direction. Apparently according to your posts, I'm the asshole for doing the normal codified behavior, and the deviating behavior is the one that's in the right.

Right, but if this is happening enough to justify your ire, then perhaps you ought to reevaluate your expectations, because they are clearly inadequate.

And if you think I think you're the asshole for only looking one way when you cross a one way street, then you've misread me. I realize that cyclists can be assholes. What I've also been trying to point out is that being an asshole is a human property, not a cyclist property, and so making the distinction between cyclists and drivers with respect to assholish behavior is silly.

The chance that someone is an asshole increases dramatically if that person criticizes cyclists for not obeying traffic laws while s/he routinely disobeys traffic laws. Do you ever jaywalk? As far as I can tell, 99.999999% of all drivers who criticize cyclists for not obeying traffic laws fall into this category.

But I appreciate the fact that you've brought up what this driver/cyclist conflict is really about, which is that drivers and cyclists tend to have differing expectations for how cyclists should behave.

I predict that if expectations were to become more realistic, and if folks on either side stopped hiding behind self righteous generalizations, that the problem would largely cease to exist.

Quote:

So this group is trying to do something about it.

I just want to note the irony in the fact that the article quotes a pedestrian as an authority on predictable behavior. I don't know how many times I've had to swerve to avoid oblivious pedestrians. Even so, I would never say that I don't respect pedestrians as a group.

Quote:

for the benefit of those others to know what the laws are...

From what you said above it seemed to me that you were of the mind that breaking the law is okay, as long as you personally aren't surprised by it. Maybe you should have listed your expectations?

Quote:

re: the rolling stops, well cars are most efficient in the same manner and for the same reasons. Why wouldn't you give them the same kind of pass?

It depends on what you mean by efficiency. Cyclists actually produce the energy used to propel their bicycles. Drivers don't. In terms of personal energy expenditure, momentum represents a much larger personal energy expenditure when one is on a bicycle than when one is driving a car.

Cynthetiq · 07-08-2009, 06:18 AM

I guess I need to update my sig again to include drivers, pedestrians, and bicyclists.

Baraka_Guru · 07-08-2009, 06:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cynthetiq

I guess I need to update my sig again to include drivers, pedestrians, and bicyclists.

Do it.

filtherton · 07-08-2009, 07:18 AM

Cyn,

cheers to that.

Dammitall · 07-14-2009, 07:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cynthetiq

re: the rolling stops, well cars are most efficient in the same manner and for the same reasons. Why wouldn't you give them the same kind of pass?

The law is the law, but in many cases car drivers are giving themselves that pass already. From something I saw today:

Quote:

People rarely come to a complete stop at stop signs. This is true regardless of their mode of travel. Most treat them as de facto yields. If there's cross traffic already in the intersection, people will stop. Otherwise, they slow down, look for traffic, and roll through the intersection.

.... Cyclists usually want to conserve momentum. It takes effort to accelerate from a complete stop and when traffic lights or stop signs are close together, some cyclists will ignore them completely. For that matter, when a motorist encounters closely spaced stop signs, he may ignore them too.

Source: Why do they do that? Traffic lights and stop signs

Cynthetiq · 07-14-2009, 08:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spinelust

The law is the law, but in many cases car drivers are giving themselves that pass already. From something I saw today:

Source: Why do they do that? Traffic lights and stop signs

No they are not giving themselves that pass. They are taking it. I'm referring specifically to your video where they are saying that it will be legal for bikers to roll through stops. If it's good for them, why not also for cars for the same "efficiency" reasons. Hypermilers would love it.

The difference is that I see and know of citations being handed out for "California stops" as they were called back home, whereas I do not see bikers ever getting any kind of citations. The only time I have seen bikers in NYC get any citations have been for the Critical Mass rides.

filtherton · 07-15-2009, 04:12 AM

In Minneapolis, unless there is something egregious about a rolling stop, you'd be hard pressed to get a ticket regardless of whether you're in a car or on a bike. Such is the nature of an overworked, undersized police department.

That being said, I know people who have been ticketed for rolling stops on bikes and I know of pedestrians who've been ticketed for jaywalking.

vanblah · 07-15-2009, 07:36 AM

Visibility is also a factor. On a bike, when I approach a stop at the normal 10-15mph that I usually go (unless I'm stomping, which is rare these days) I can see in nearly any direction for a good distance and determine if I can roll through a stop.

In a car, when I approach a stop at 30-35 mph I don't have the visibility nor do I have the reaction time to safely roll through.

Cars are dangerous things; I don't care how good a drive you think you are. Your reaction time and the stopping time, your visibility is not as good as a bike. I'm not saying that all cyclists are better at these things ... but given proper training for either vehicle the bike is simply safer.

Besides, it's not about your cars efficiency (except from a fuel standpoint, and if that's what you're worried about you should probably ride a bike) ... all the car driver has to do is press on a pedal and get going; this requires almost no effort. From a dead stop a cyclist has to balance the bike and move slowly through an intersection; which can be more dangerous than just rolling through if there are no cars present.

My point of view is that motorists are simply complaining that they have to expend a little more effort in turning that oh-so-difficult steering wheel, or pressing on that gosh-darned gas or break pedal. It takes absolutely no effort to drive a car, it can take some mental acuity, and if most drivers were as good as they say they are they would have no difficulty avoiding pedestrians and cyclists.

But that's just my rant. I ride a bike to work every day. I break the rules and ride off-road as much as possible. Which pisses off the motorists who think I should obey every law they obey, but when I do obey the laws they get pissed off because "I'm in their way." As far as bikes are concerned it's damned-if-you-do-damned-if-you-don't so screw it. I don't purposely pull out in front of cars, I don't purposely try to piss off the drivers--I try to avoid them as much as possible.

Cynthetiq · 07-15-2009, 07:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vanblah

Visibility is also a factor. On a bike, when I approach a stop at the normal 10-15mph that I usually go (unless I'm stomping, which is rare these days) I can see in nearly any direction for a good distance and determine if I can roll through a stop.

In a car, when I approach a stop at 30-35 mph I don't have the visibility nor do I have the reaction time to safely roll through.

Cars are dangerous things; I don't care how good a drive you think you are. Your reaction time and the stopping time, your visibility is not as good as a bike. I'm not saying that all cyclists are better at these things ... but given proper training for either vehicle the bike is simply safer.

Besides, it's not about your cars efficiency (except from a fuel standpoint, and if that's what you're worried about you should probably ride a bike) ... all the car driver has to do is press on a pedal and get going; this requires almost no effort. From a dead stop a cyclist has to balance the bike and move slowly through an intersection; which can be more dangerous than just rolling through if there are no cars present.

My point of view is that motorists are simply complaining that they have to expend a little more effort in turning that oh-so-difficult steering wheel, or pressing on that gosh-darned gas or break pedal. It takes absolutely no effort to drive a car, it can take some mental acuity, and if most drivers were as good as they say they are they would have no difficulty avoiding pedestrians and cyclists.

But that's just my rant. I ride a bike to work every day. I break the rules and ride off-road as much as possible. Which pisses off the motorists who think I should obey every law they obey, but when I do obey the laws they get pissed off because "I'm in their way." As far as bikes are concerned it's damned-if-you-do-damned-if-you-don't so screw it. I don't purposely pull out in front of cars, I don't purposely try to piss off the drivers--I try to avoid them as much as possible.

So then a motorcycle should also be able to roll through stops in the same manner at the same 10-15 mph speed. Visibility is the same especially in states with no helmet laws.

vanblah · 07-15-2009, 08:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cynthetiq

So then a motorcycle should also be able to roll through stops in the same manner at the same 10-15 mph speed. Visibility is the same especially in states with no helmet laws.

Possibly. However, the question of efficiency still applies. It takes little effort to twist a wrist. The wobbliness still counts though ... motorcycles are harder to control from take off and at lower speeds.

The main difference I see is motorized vs. non-motorized.

theemaan · 07-20-2009, 05:37 AM

Originally Posted by vanblah
Visibility is also a factor. On a bike, when I approach a stop at the normal 10-15mph that I usually go (unless I'm stomping, which is rare these days) I can see in nearly any direction for a good distance and determine if I can roll through a stop.

In a car, when I approach a stop at 30-35 mph I don't have the visibility nor do I have the reaction time to safely roll through.

Cars are dangerous things; I don't care how good a drive you think you are. Your reaction time and the stopping time, your visibility is not as good as a bike. I'm not saying that all cyclists are better at these things ... but given proper training for either vehicle the bike is simply safer.

Besides, it's not about your cars efficiency (except from a fuel standpoint, and if that's what you're worried about you should probably ride a bike) ... all the car driver has to do is press on a pedal and get going; this requires almost no effort. From a dead stop a cyclist has to balance the bike and move slowly through an intersection; which can be more dangerous than just rolling through if there are no cars present.

My point of view is that motorists are simply complaining that they have to expend a little more effort in turning that oh-so-difficult steering wheel, or pressing on that gosh-darned gas or break pedal. It takes absolutely no effort to drive a car, it can take some mental acuity, and if most drivers were as good as they say they are they would have no difficulty avoiding pedestrians and cyclists.

But that's just my rant. I ride a bike to work every day. I break the rules and ride off-road as much as possible. Which pisses off the motorists who think I should obey every law they obey, but when I do obey the laws they get pissed off because "I'm in their way." As far as bikes are concerned it's damned-if-you-do-damned-if-you-don't so screw it. I don't purposely pull out in front of cars, I don't purposely try to piss off the drivers--I try to avoid them as much as possible.

To me this is exactly why cars don't play well with bikes. After you pass them they run back past you at red lights and you have to pass them again (often in a narrower place and they have no respect for the "rules of the road". In a perfect world--like Boulder Colorado-- There would be bike lanes and roads everywhere to make life safer and easier for evryone

vanblah · 07-20-2009, 05:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theemaan

To me this is exactly why cars don't play well with bikes. After you pass them they run back past you at red lights and you have to pass them again (often in a narrower place and they have no respect for the "rules of the road". In a perfect world--like Boulder Colorado-- There would be bike lanes and roads everywhere to make life safer and easier for evryone

In Memphis the narrowest part of the road is usually at an intersection where they have tried to squeeze in a turn lane. If I am at an intersection like this in the far right lane I usually have a car pull up right next to me. This is dangerous and against the law. You may not pass any vehicle in it's own lane unless there is three or more feet of clearance.

I think we've been over the whole "respect for the rules of the road" argument. There is fault on all sides with regard to this. Cars, motorcycles, bicycles, pedestrians all have people who don't respect the rules of the road. It's not just bicycles.

theemaan · 07-20-2009, 06:43 AM

Great points--Its an unfortunate situation that probably can't be resovled--Heres to looking out for the other guy-wether bike or car

05-18-2009, 03:06 AM	#82 (permalink)
Hyacinthe Psycho Location: Australia	Most of the time I have no problem whatsoever with cyclists - I have friends and family that cycle absolutely everywhere - my parents both ride over 6km to work everyday for example. When don't I respect cyclists? When they do dangerous things that put themselves, me and whoever is in the car with me at risk of an accident - when they are riding down the centre of a lane at under 30km, when they decide it's perfectly ok to ride across the road without checking for traffic, when they don't wear lights or reflective clothing of any kind and I'm meant to use my psychic powers to see them at night, when they ride to the very front of the lane while we're stopped at lights not realising that the entire reason motocycle riders do that is because they have a faster acceleration then most cars which the majority of cyclists do not. Take everything I hate about pedestrians while I'm driving and add the belief that they belong on the road and you get about 90% of cyclists it seems. The ones that tell me when they're turning (indicate), wear protective gear and obey road rules I have no grudge towards. Unfortunately as seems to be so often the case it's those responsisble cyclists that seem to be in the minority. I should probably add that the majority of the ity I am living in has specially built bicycle pathways next to almost every major road (not on highways or freeways) this means the path is built out of larger blocks is smooth (as opposed to paving) and 2 or 3 times as wide as a pedestrian footpath - cyclists just decide to use the road anyways. __________________ "I want to be remembered as the girl who always smiles even when her heart is broken... and the one that could brighten up your day even if she couldnt brighten her own" "Her emotions were clear waters. You could see the scarring and pockmarks at the bottom of the pool, but it was just a part of her landscape – the consequences of others’ actions in which she claimed no part." Last edited by Hyacinthe; 05-18-2009 at 03:14 AM..

06-14-2009, 10:39 AM	#84 (permalink)
squeeeb part of the problem Location: hic et ubique	there are assclowns on both sides of the story, but the ones in the cars seem to outnumber the cyclists. i've had people tell me how they hate cyclists on the road and how when they see them they like to drive up close to them and push them off the road. they are so cute when they find out i'm a cyclist who commutes and rides all over. i think they are jealous. they are sitting in traffic while cyclists are whizzing past them, they are in thier car while cyclists are in the fresh air. they are spending money on gas, etc etc. i could never figure out why me on a bicycle is a threat to a dude in a huge truck, enough so he gets close to me, revs his engine, call me faggot, etc. and i don't even wear lycra shorts or a cycling jersey. __________________ onward to mayhem!

06-14-2009, 11:04 AM	#85 (permalink)
Cynthetiq Tilted Cat Head Administrator Location: Manhattan, NY	here are my reasons: Hunter College Bicycle Study in NYC The other day I was on the sidewalk walking down the street when a bicyclist on the SIDEWALK actually was MAD that I was in their way. The other day I was crossing with the light, and a bicyclist shouted at me because they were running the light and wanted to alert me that they were going to cross in front of me. __________________ I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not. What's the best nation in the world? DO-NATION!

07-08-2009, 06:18 AM	#90 (permalink)
Cynthetiq Tilted Cat Head Administrator Location: Manhattan, NY	I guess I need to update my sig again to include drivers, pedestrians, and bicyclists. __________________ I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not. What's the best nation in the world? DO-NATION!

07-20-2009, 05:37 AM	#99 (permalink)
theemaan Tilted	Originally Posted by vanblah Visibility is also a factor. On a bike, when I approach a stop at the normal 10-15mph that I usually go (unless I'm stomping, which is rare these days) I can see in nearly any direction for a good distance and determine if I can roll through a stop. In a car, when I approach a stop at 30-35 mph I don't have the visibility nor do I have the reaction time to safely roll through. Cars are dangerous things; I don't care how good a drive you think you are. Your reaction time and the stopping time, your visibility is not as good as a bike. I'm not saying that all cyclists are better at these things ... but given proper training for either vehicle the bike is simply safer. Besides, it's not about your cars efficiency (except from a fuel standpoint, and if that's what you're worried about you should probably ride a bike) ... all the car driver has to do is press on a pedal and get going; this requires almost no effort. From a dead stop a cyclist has to balance the bike and move slowly through an intersection; which can be more dangerous than just rolling through if there are no cars present. My point of view is that motorists are simply complaining that they have to expend a little more effort in turning that oh-so-difficult steering wheel, or pressing on that gosh-darned gas or break pedal. It takes absolutely no effort to drive a car, it can take some mental acuity, and if most drivers were as good as they say they are they would have no difficulty avoiding pedestrians and cyclists. But that's just my rant. I ride a bike to work every day. I break the rules and ride off-road as much as possible. Which pisses off the motorists who think I should obey every law they obey, but when I do obey the laws they get pissed off because "I'm in their way." As far as bikes are concerned it's damned-if-you-do-damned-if-you-don't so screw it. I don't purposely pull out in front of cars, I don't purposely try to piss off the drivers--I try to avoid them as much as possible. To me this is exactly why cars don't play well with bikes. After you pass them they run back past you at red lights and you have to pass them again (often in a narrower place and they have no respect for the "rules of the road". In a perfect world--like Boulder Colorado-- There would be bike lanes and roads everywhere to make life safer and easier for evryone Last edited by theemaan; 07-20-2009 at 05:39 AM.. Reason: I am a dumb a* and don't know how to quote yet*

06-14-2009, 09:38 AM	#83 (permalink)
wooÐs Sitting in a tree Location: Atlanta	Here on my side of town, the cyclists don't respect the drivers. They think just because they're on a bike, stop signs don't apply to them, which last time I checked, they're supposed to abide by these signs just like every other person. And they insist on riding down roads with heavy traffic when they'd do themselves and everyone else a huge favor by keeping their sport for subdivisions or parks. Plus I don't like spandex.

07-08-2009, 07:18 AM	#92 (permalink)
filtherton Junkie Location: In the land of ice and snow.	Cyn, cheers to that.

07-15-2009, 04:12 AM	#95 (permalink)
filtherton Junkie Location: In the land of ice and snow.	In Minneapolis, unless there is something egregious about a rolling stop, you'd be hard pressed to get a ticket regardless of whether you're in a car or on a bike. Such is the nature of an overworked, undersized police department. That being said, I know people who have been ticketed for rolling stops on bikes and I know of pedestrians who've been ticketed for jaywalking.

07-15-2009, 07:36 AM	#96 (permalink)
vanblah Junkie	Visibility is also a factor. On a bike, when I approach a stop at the normal 10-15mph that I usually go (unless I'm stomping, which is rare these days) I can see in nearly any direction for a good distance and determine if I can roll through a stop. In a car, when I approach a stop at 30-35 mph I don't have the visibility nor do I have the reaction time to safely roll through. Cars are dangerous things; I don't care how good a drive you think you are. Your reaction time and the stopping time, your visibility is not as good as a bike. I'm not saying that all cyclists are better at these things ... but given proper training for either vehicle the bike is simply safer. Besides, it's not about your cars efficiency (except from a fuel standpoint, and if that's what you're worried about you should probably ride a bike) ... all the car driver has to do is press on a pedal and get going; this requires almost no effort. From a dead stop a cyclist has to balance the bike and move slowly through an intersection; which can be more dangerous than just rolling through if there are no cars present. My point of view is that motorists are simply complaining that they have to expend a little more effort in turning that oh-so-difficult steering wheel, or pressing on that gosh-darned gas or break pedal. It takes absolutely no effort to drive a car, it can take some mental acuity, and if most drivers were as good as they say they are they would have no difficulty avoiding pedestrians and cyclists. But that's just my rant. I ride a bike to work every day. I break the rules and ride off-road as much as possible. Which pisses off the motorists who think I should obey every law they obey, but when I do obey the laws they get pissed off because "I'm in their way." As far as bikes are concerned it's damned-if-you-do-damned-if-you-don't so screw it. I don't purposely pull out in front of cars, I don't purposely try to piss off the drivers--I try to avoid them as much as possible.

07-20-2009, 06:43 AM	#101 (permalink)
theemaan Tilted	Great points--Its an unfortunate situation that probably can't be resovled--Heres to looking out for the other guy-wether bike or car