Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community - View Single Post - Why don't car drivers respect bicyclists?

Cynthetiq · 07-02-2009, 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by filtherton

Just my opinion, but these aren't very reasonable reasons to not respect bicyclists.

First of all, if you are going to base your level of respect for an entire mode of transportation based on operator adherence to traffic laws, you wouldn't respect anyone.

It has been my personal experience that everyone, cyclists, drivers and pedestrians routinely violate traffic laws. And why wouldn't they? The important criteria is risk (consequences x probability of getting caught/injured)- it is generally no more risky for a cyclist to run a red light than it is for a pedestrian to jaywalk or for an automobile to exceed the posted speed limit by 5-15 mph.

These routine violations of traffic law only become an issue when they are done carelessly. Carelessness is a human attribute, it isn't the sole domain of the cyclist. I think that most people who attribute their disdain for cyclists to some sort of chaste notion traffic law conformity are full of shit.

Second, the act of basing your respect for individuals on general statistics is a symptom of a lazy mind. I mean, it's one thing to use statistical descriptions of how people behave to form public policy. It's another to use those same descriptions to preemptively dismiss people you've never even met.

It's not as simple as that filth. It's just a matter of expectation. I expect cars and taxis to act a particular way in Manhattan. I know that taxis will cross 3 lanes of traffic to catch a fare. I know that cars will make left turns from the right lane in heavily trafficked area.

If I'm crossing the ONE way street I'm not expecting ANY moving traffic to be coming at me from a different direction than the ONE way that all the vehicles are coming from. I can't tell you how many times I've been almost hit or yelled at to "Watch it!" from a biker going down the ONE way street from the wrong direction. Apparently according to your posts, I'm the asshole for doing the normal codified behavior, and the deviating behavior is the one that's in the right.

So this group is trying to do something about it.

Quote:

View: NY1 For You: Cycling Group Tries To Break Bad Habits
Source: NY1
posted with the TFP thread generator

NY1 For You: Cycling Group Tries To Break Bad Habits

NY1 For You: Cycling Group Tries To Break Bad Habits

By: Susan Jhun

With more and more New Yorkers choosing cycling as a viable mode of transportation, concern over cyclists who do not obey the rules of the road, has pedestrians and one local cycling advocate group speaking out. NY1's Susan Jhun filed the following NY1 For You report.

The city saw a 35 percent jump in the number of commuter cyclists last year alone, and while that contributes to greener city, there is growing concern over cyclists who do not adhere to the rules of the road.

"Generally, I think a lot of cyclists don't follow the same rules that everybody else seems to follow," said pedestrian Kevin Jones.

Most pedestrians say the biggest problem they see are cyclists going the wrong way down a road.

"It's easier to just take the bike lane and go the wrong way on an avenue," said cyclist Luana Halpern. "Or, if you're close to somewhere and you don't want to go two avenues out of your way and come back, sometimes you have to take it in the wrong direction."

Cycling advocate group Transportation Alternatives is trying to reform this behavior.

"If you're coming the wrong way down a one-way street, pedestrians, drivers, other cyclists aren't accustomed to looking for you and that has a negative impact on your safety," said Wiley Norvell of Transportation Alternatives. "And it has a negative impact on the safety of everyone around you."

Safety is one of the core messages the group hopes to communicate to cyclists through its new civic cycling campaign called Biking Rules.

"This is a great way for cyclists to find out not just what the rules of the road are but why they are," Norvell said. "Explaining to a cyclist why going the wrong way down and one way street is really problematic."

Going the wrong way down a one-way street is not only unsafe, it's also illegal. According to New York State Vehicle and Traffic Law, a bicycle operator is subject to the same laws that apply to the drivers, which means if you're riding the wrong way down a street or bike lane, you can be ticketed.

For more information on safe cycling and biking rules, visit BikingRules.org.

for the benefit of those others to know what the laws are...

Quote:

Rules of the Road

Safe city cycling means knowing the rules of the road that apply to cyclists. Not only will following the rules keep us safe and traffic-ticket free, but it will also have a positive impact on the overall safety of the streets. After all, we'll have to give respect in order to get it in return. Read up, these are our biking rules!
Key:
VTL= Vehicle and Traffic Law (New York State)
RCNY= Rules of the City of New York
AC= Administrative Code (NYC)
For a link to the NYC Department of Transportation's list of Laws click here.
NYC CYCLISTS' RIGHTS AND RESPONSIBILITIES
VTL § 1231 Bicyclists are granted all of the rights and are subject to all of the duties of the driver of a motor vehicle.
RCNY § 4-02 (a) The provisions of N.Y.C. Traffic Rules are applicable to bicycles and their operators.
RCNY § 4-12 (h) Cyclists involved in accidents resulting in death or injury to person or damage to property must stop and give name, address, insurance information, etc. and must report to the Police Department.
NYC TRAFFIC RULES PROTECTING CYCLISTS
RCNY § 4-08 (e)(9) It is against the law to park, stand or stop within or otherwise obstruct bike lanes.
RCNY § 4-12(p) Other vehicles shall not drive on or across bike lanes.
RCNY § 4-12(c) It is illegal to get out of a vehicle in a manner which endangers cyclists (often referred to as "dooring").
VTL § 1146 Drivers to exercise due care to avoid colliding with any bicyclist, upon any roadway and shall give warning by sounding the horn when necessary.
REQUIRED EQUIPMENT FOR NYC CYCLISTS
VTL § 1236 (a) and (e) Bicycles must have a white headlight, a red taillight and reflectors between dusk and dawn.
(b) Bicycles must have a bell or other audible signal.
(c) Bicycles must have working brakes.
(d) Bicycles must have reflectors, reflective tires and/or other reflective devices.
VTL § 1238 (a) Children under 14 but older than 5 must wear an approved helmet.
(b) A child under one is not permitted to ride on a bicycle.
(c) A child one or more years of age but less than 5 must wear an approved helmet and be carried in a properly affixed child carrier.
VTL § 375 (24)(a) Cyclists may not wear more than one earphone attached to a radio, tape player or other audio device while riding.
AC § 10-157 Bicycles used for commercial purposes.
Working cyclists must wear business identifying information on bike and body, including operator's identification number.
Business must provide working cyclist with a helmet accroding to A.N.S.I. or Snell standards.
Working cyclists shall wear the helmet provided by business.
Working cylist must carry and produce on demand a numbered ID card that included operator's photo, name, home address and business' name, address and phone number.
Working cyclist must abide by all equipment requirements stated in VTL 1236.
Business nust maintain log book that includes the name, identification number and place of residence of each working cyclist; and the date of employment and discharge. The log book must also include information on daily trips, identifying the working cyclist's identification number and name; and name and place of origin and destination.
Owner of business must file an annual report with the Police Department identifying the number of bicycles it owns and the identification number and identity or any employees.
BICYCLE RIDING RULES IN NYC

RCNY § 4-12 (p) Bicyclists may ride on either side of one-way roadways that are at least 40 feet wide.
RCNY § 4-12 (p) Bicyclists should ride in usable bike lanes, unless they are blocked or unsafe for any reason.
VTL § 1234 Cyclists must ride by the right hand curb and no more than two abreast. Does not apply in new York City. It is specifically superseded by 34 RCNY 4-02 (e).
AC § 19-176 Bicycles ridden on sidewalks may be confiscated and riders may be subject to legal sanctions (see also: RCNY § 4-07(c)(3)).
RCNY § 4-07 (c)(3) No driving bikes on sidewalks unless sign allows or wheels are less than 26 inches in diameter and ride is twelve years or younger (see also: AC § 19-176).
Greenways When riding on greenways, stay on designated paths. No bicycle riding is permitted on pedestrian paths unless otherwise indicated. Violators are subject to fines and confiscation of their bicycles.
RCNY § 4-14 (c) No person shall ride a bicycle in any park, except in places designated for bike riding; but persons may push bikes in single file to and from such places, except on beaches and boardwalks.
RCNY § 4-12 (o) Bicycles are prohibited on expressways, drives, highways, interstate routes, bridges and thruways unless authorized by signs.
VTL § 1237 When turn signals are required, left turns shall be signaled with the left hand, and right turns may be signaled with either hand. [see the Biking Rules Hand Signals Section]
VTL § 1233 Clinging to vehicles or attaching bike to another vehicle being operated on roadway is prohibited.
RCNY § 4-12 (e) Cyclists must have at least one hand on handlebars at all times.
VTL § 1232 Cyclists must ride on a permanent seat, feet must be on pedals, and bike must carry only the number of persons for which it is designed and equipped.

---------- Post added at 12:56 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:54 AM ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by spinelust

Since Snowy mentioned it earlier in the thread, I thought I'd post this video demonstrating the mechanics of the proposed Idaho Stop legislation that apparently failed in Oregon.

Bicycles, Rolling Stops, and the Idaho Stop on Vimeo

Judging from the post history on the thread, this won't do anything to win over the hearts of those who feel bikes don't belong on roads without lanes dedicated to their use, but as a cyclist that values my forward momentum, I feel this is a step in the right direction.

re: the rolling stops, well cars are most efficient in the same manner and for the same reasons. Why wouldn't you give them the same kind of pass?