MSD

Today's award for further crippling my faith in humanity goes to the UK. Props to the majority who said it's never acceptable to hit a woman (I would answer this in a survey under the assumption that they're talking about abuse and not self-defense.)

Women should be hit for wearing sexy clothing in public, one in seven believe - Times Online
tl;dr version: 1/7 think it's OK to hit your girlfriend or wife if you don't like the way she's dressed or if she complains too much, 1/4 think that women are partially responsible for being raped.

It goes without saying that it's simply unacceptable to think like this, and that blaming victims only leads to more victimization. Rape is the fault of the rapist, plain and simple. Domestic violence is a dirty little secret that people don't want to admit, and our legal system is not suited to address. When an abuser is out on bail and back at home with the victim, victims frequently retract their statements prior to or during the trial; rather than treat it as witness intimidation, many jurisdictions hold these victims in contempt of court (this according to the keynote speaker I saw at a national domestic violence prevention conference.)

For the old people, I'll put it in the same category as the casual racism we accept because "that's what they grew up with," and just wait until backwards attitudes of that segment of the population disappear with them in a decade or two. We would do well to make a society-wide mental note of this and make a conscious effort not to become like that when we get old.

What I find interesting is that lower socioeconomic classes share these attitudes. It's more support for my belief that a majority of society's problems are based in subpar education and opportunity for the poor.


On another note, what are "social class groups D and E"? Is Brave New World a reference book now?

Willravel

Are we sure this statistic is reliable? Sure, there are some people who might think it's okay to strike a woman for dressing in a provocative way, but 1/7 in a Western European country?

Anyway, ladies, if your boyfriend or husband ever lays his hands on you in an unfriendly way, get out immediately and call the cops. No one deserves that.

new man

I would love to see the demographics behind this. Britannia has experienced a trmendous influx of immmigrants the past few decades. Let's just say that islam has a real problem with women, but not with violence.

BadNick

Hey, a little "love smack" might be better than a beheading or acid in the face.

Otherwise, I stongly believe that violence against another person, regardless of the sex of the perpetrator and the victim, should be equally and vigorously prosecuted under law...I think this will make a strong point that it is totally unacceptable in our society and if you do it you will be penalized.

Strange Famous

This isnt a representation of the country I know. You can find a couple of 100 morons to say anything I suppose... I dont know anyone who thinks its ok to hit their girlfriend cos of how they dress.

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shakran

you also have to take into account the people that like to fuck with polls. This is why the Campbells Soup Kid once became mayor of a small town in Arizona

Telluride

It wasn't because his plan for job creation and economic growth was mm mm good?

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Strange Famous

they elected a man in a monkey suit mayor of somewhere in the UK...

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"Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate,
for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing
hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain
without being uncovered."

The Gospel of Thomas

Daniel_

Hartlepool.

The guy was the town football club's mascot, and the mascot was a monkey because during the Napoleonic wars, a ship's monkey was washed up, and it was tried and executed as a French spy.

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Xerxys

Wait ... what, I had to read this like 8 times and I still dont understand it ... there was a point in time where human beings of the homo sapiens variety tried and executed a monkey as a French spy?????????

Or am I missing the irony here?

biznatch

Maybe it's a "French people are hairy and smelly" type of joke? I know the british and the french like to poke fun at eachother.

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MSD

I think the rationale was that you couldn't loot a ship unless it had no crew members, and since the monkey was the only survivor on board, they needed an excuse to kill it.

highthief

Given that about about that number of women, percentage wise, have suffered such assaults in North America and Europe, sounds like the numbers are spot on. Why is this a surprise?

And I don't think it has that much to do with immigration with respect to the UK - the UK is still overwhelmingly white in comparison with North America.

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robot_parade

Well....I could see how the answer to this might hinge on a person's definition of 'responsible'...

If I dress in an expensive suit, go to a bad, bad part of town, and start throwing money around in a seedy bar, then get mugged, am I responsible? I could see some people answering 'yes'. I would say not responsible, but stupid.

There are probably some rapes that could have been avoided if the woman in question hadn't been similarly 'stupid'. I don't think she's responsible. I don't think rape should ever happen to anyone. But, if you put yourself in a dangerous situation, and something bad happens...

Now, I would guess that a vanishingly small percentage of rapes occur in situations like I've described. Most women aren't stupid. But I can sortof see where some people would answer this question in the affirmative.

Hyacinthe

Sadly I don't think the number is exagarrated at all, think about the number of women you know that have been raped, sexually abused or beaten.

Pretty much every woman I know has been in one of these situations atleast once, that means there are alot of guys out there that think this behaviour is ok. There are also alot of women out there that have either grown up believeing that it's a mans right to discipline his family and chattel physically or who believe that they deserve it, see it as a sign of jealousy and therefore caring etc.

The influx of immigrants from Arabic / Middle Eastern countries may be having a heavy impact on the percentage of people who believe it's ok to hit women but I have no doubts that even in countries with low immigrations rates (like Australia) the rate of domestic abuse related crimes is steadily rising.

I don't think a domestic abuse register like te one currently available in regards to child molesters would be all that helpful actually. One of the main reasons that these crimes are such a big problems is because they are not reported. Just because the guy that a woman has started seeing doesn't have a record of domestic abuse doesn't mean he has not hit his ex or children or anyone else, it simply means it has not been reported.

I would be interested to see the same stats if the genders were reversed though. I wonder how many people think it's ok for a woman to hit a man because he's flirting with another woman or some other similarly minor offence. I'd also like to know why domestic abuse directed towards men is never discussed, it is so much harder for a man to admit that he is in an abusive relationship, especially if the abuse is physical, and with men (or some of them) being raised with the idea that 'you don't hit girls' they are left with no way to defend themselves whatsoever, atleast it is perfectly socially acceptable for a woman to defend herself, a man doing the same thing is likely to be arrested and charged with abuse himself.

I would also like to know what the people polled regard as being sexually provocative or revealing clothing - that's never specified in the survey.

There are a couple of things in the survey I find interesting actually - the fact that people are more likely to inform the police about abuse if it's a friend or neighbour as opposed to a family member and that almost half the people surveyed believed a prostitute is atleast partially responsible if she gets raped.

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Iliftrocks

My thoughts exactly. New laws aren't needed to protect women. There are laws on the books that say violence against anyone is actionable, and punishable. Enforce them. A crime is already being committed, what's to be earned by making it worse to strike a woman, would man on man violence be more acceptable, less punishable?

The main problem with domestic abuse, is that the abused don't report it, or don't stick to their guns and have the turd locked up. Apparently some cops also don't want to mess with it, but new laws won't change that either.

Yeah, I'm against Hate Crime laws too.

And only an ass would say someone deserved to be victimised.

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MSD

This argument only works if women in sexy clothing are more likely to be raped, which is simply not the case. Either way, the responsibility for an assault is 100% the perpetrator's. A woman should be able to walk down the street in her underwear if she wanted, and not worry about being touched, because the responsibility is on others to not harm people, not on the victims.

It makes sense to practice risk avoidance, like staying in well-lit, populated areas with other people around, but in the end, crime is the fault of criminals and nobody else. If you believe otherwise, you are an apologist for criminals and passively endorse their actions.

Tully Mars

Gez, that's sad. No doubt accurate but sad all the same. As the above posters have pointed out it's nothing but "normal" for women to be victims of this shit treatment. This isn't a UK thing it's in every country, some countries have a larger problem then others. All of North America does. Where I'm at now, Mexico, it's not at all uncommon to hit your girlfriend or wife. The perps of this behavior aren't real men; they're dickless, mindless, fuck wads. Of course that's just my opinion and only my opinion. But I stand by it.

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Terrell

I would not go so far as to say it's NEVER acceptable to hit a woman, because I believe that everyone has a right to self-defense including men who are dealing with a woman who has initiated violence against him.

I do think it's wrong for a person of either sex to hit another person over a any disagreement (including the ones listed in the OP), and wish that society, as well as law, would hold everyone, both male and female, to the standard that it's wrong to hit another person for any reason other than self-defense. I also think that the penalty for violating such a standard should fall equally on all violators, regardless of their gender.

Edit: Should have read BadNick's post before making mine

gardens

I'm not going to make any reply to the acceptability or accuracy in the ideas of the poll

What I do think needs more attention is what the women had an argument about. What is to be done about the appallingly high numbers of men and women who suffer from domestic violence. The punishments don't matter if the perpetrators are never brought before the court, and the idea of a registry doesn't hold any water with me as I am firmly against it either you've done your time and should be released or you haven't. The idea that at the beginning of any relationship a women should have to contact the police is ludicrous both in the act and the long term. Men who abuse have various reasons why.

Something needs to be done to prevent abuse not punish it. As to what would be ideal that is not for me to say.

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tisonlyi

I'd love to see the real question that was asked, what questions were asked leading up to the question, etc.

As an example, From Terror Management Theory, if people are even subtly reminded of their own mortality prior to a question of violence or punishment, then they're likely to react in a much more extreme fashion than if not.

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