Martial Arts - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

MacGuyver · 03-05-2009, 10:19 PM

I'm not exactly sure where this type of thing should go, so I suppose it can be in general discussion for now.

I was thinking tomorrow of going to check out local locations for Tai Chi. Tai Chi seems to be kind of a more spiritually cleansing type of martial arts that can serve as a meditation through movement from what I've kind of seen or read, which isn't much. The place I'm going to go look at also does Chi Kung, Pa Kua Chang, and Wu Chi Kung Fu, none of which I am familiar with. I have never done martial arts and my curiosity has really been spiking lately, so I am thinking of doing something about it.

I'm also going to look at a boxing facility. My goals are to become not only physically fit, but to kind of have a physical outlet that will sort of cleanse my mind and my 'spirit' so to speak. I've never been big on this kind of stuff, but its an idea that has kind of been compelling me to try it.

Another one of my friends has also been plugging Buddhism. Which I'm not sure if I really wanted to get into the more religious side of spiritual cleansing.

I was mostly curious if anyone had any experience, or sufficient knowledge about any of these things, what your familiarity and your opinion of the experiences are. Any other chatter pertinent to the subject is welcome as well, I'm open to hearing more options of what everyone thinks!

ngdawg · 03-05-2009, 10:37 PM

The first thing I would tell you is don't go to a chain. Find a private or single instruction class. Chains sell their belts-private instructors make you earn them. If you aren't sure, ask and if they say you have to pay for your belt, head for the door.

The spouse took Kendo (if I remember correctly) Karate and the flexibility and fitness he got from it were terrific. He got to blue and then quit, though. And after all these years, I'm still not allowed to toss out his Ghi

Willravel · 03-05-2009, 10:41 PM

Bruce Lee started with Tai Chi (Chuan, Yu style), so it's probably a great place to start.

The spiritual aspect of martial arts is often very subjective. There are vague lessons on chi, but it's nothing like western religion. I would classify it more as philosophy.

I took several kinds of martial arts when I was younger, and I found it to be something very important and enjoyable. I particularly enjoyed Kali, Muay Tai, and Jeet Kune Do, but I've really not had a chance to sample all there is out there yet. I suggest looking at the philosophies and aspects of many different martial arts before deciding on one or two. Don't be afraid to test-drive a dojo/gym. Some schools only see martial arts as a sport, and they very often are commercialized versions of martial arts that end up not being functional in a real fight. In my experience, it's best to avoid schools with a lot of very young students with soccer moms.

You may want to start exercising before joining a school, too, in order to increase your advancement. I don't suggest anything silly, but maybe some running, weights, and stretching (please use programs from professionals).

Anyway, I wish you the best and I hope your experience is as rewarding as mine was.

Atreides88 · 03-05-2009, 10:52 PM

I've been doing a mixture of Karate, Tang Su Do, and Judo for a little over a year now. I would definitely recommend getting into it. It's good fun and great for developing physical fitness.

SSJTWIZTA · 03-05-2009, 11:06 PM

i was forced to go to tae kwon do classes as a kid. it was my parents idea of daycare with benefits.

one good thing came out of it. it totally beat the desire to fight right out of me.

MacGuyver · 03-05-2009, 11:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ngdawg

The first thing I would tell you is don't go to a chain. Find a private or single instruction class. Chains sell their belts-private instructors make you earn them. If you aren't sure, ask and if they say you have to pay for your belt, head for the door.

That's a very interesting point. It doesn't seem like these places are really a chain persay but they are certainly a business. The Tai Chi wasn't bad, I'd probably choose the option where I can pay $150 for fourteen weeks worth of instruction at any classes that I want to. There are cheaper, more specific rates for particular classes and times, but I feel like this is the best value and that he's not really screwing me at all. I mean the guy does need to make a living.

However, the boxing was a friggin arm and a leg. There are 3 programs of fight, only the last of which is any contact person to person.

Quote:

Each level consists of 10 private one-half hour sessions, although levels above the first level can be repeated before moving on to the next level. I do classes by appointment only, at a time that is convenient to you (as long as no one else has a class at that time). Classes are normally taken three times per week. Consequently, it takes less than four weeks to do each level. Tuition is paid upfront, as Coach **** guarantees to give you classes at a time convenient to you.

Level 1 - $300 (Absolutely NO CONTACT)
a.) Learn balance and throwing punches properly - and hard.
b.) Learn how to prevail, in a street-fighting scenario.
c.) Learn basic techniques of attack and defense.

Level 2 - $300 (pre-register $250) (Absolutely NO CONTACT)
a.) Learn how to shadow box. (boxing an imaginary opponent)
b.) Learn how to use heavy bag and standing speed bag.
c.) Introduction to shadow sparring. (shadow boxing with a real opponent)

Level 3 - $300 (pre-register $250)
a.) Learn how to develop attacks.
b.) Sparring light, then heavier (gradually)
c.) Introduction to fighting

If you 'pre-register' for all three its $700 instead of $900. But holy shit, that seems like a lot of money still. This isn't exactly chain, but its probably the only serious gym that I found on the internet around the western part of the state. This is the one I'm a little skeptical about.

stevie667 · 03-06-2009, 06:33 AM

Try Aikido (granted i'm biased, but still), it has a large spiritual component if you want it to, great for flexibility and generally the people who practice it are a great bunch.

If you can find a school/class that is associated or affiliated to the Aikikai, which is run by the grandson of the founder and retains the most of the original intentions.

ChrisJericho · 03-06-2009, 10:10 AM

I've done Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu (3 years) Karate (2 years) and Judo (1 year) and to be honest I have benefited very much from each one of these styles. By this I mean, because of Karate I can out-strike most grapplers, and because of BJJ I can out-grapple most strikers. And because of judo, I can throw them all !

But getting to your question that you want "to kind of have a physical outlet that will sort of cleanse my mind and my 'spirit' so to speak." it sounds like you are more interested into the philosophical elements of martial arts rather than self defense. If this is true, then the Kung Fu/Tai Chi school should be fine, they will likely have you do lots of physical exercises and memorize fighting forms.

Be warned though, I have a friend that did some style of Kung Fu for for 2 or 3 years and we decided to have a friendly sparring match (with gloves and mouth pieces of course). I consistently took him down or threw him and then either applied submission holds or strikes until he submitted. This was someone who also had a height and weight advantage on me. If that was a street fight ... there's a good possibility he could of wound up dead.

So try to keep in mind that while some things look good while you're in a safe dojo, how would your training help you in a life or death scenario?

Glory's Sun · 03-06-2009, 10:18 AM

Muay Thai. 'nuff said.

It's deep in tradition and has spiritual aspects as well.. plus you can use 8 point strikes as opposed to 4. I love it.

Jiu-Jitsu is great, but you have to find a great trainer. Alot of BJJ instructors these days hand out belts far too easily. If you can find someone who has studied the Gracie style for many many years then go for it. Just make sure that belts are given by performance, not by dollars. That applies to anything in the MMA world though. Don't just go somewhere where they will show you how to do things for the sake of money..find people who are devoted to the artform and it's history.

MacGuyver · 03-06-2009, 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChrisJericho

Be warned though, I have a friend that did some style of Kung Fu for for 2 or 3 years and we decided to have a friendly sparring match (with gloves and mouth pieces of course). I consistently took him down or threw him and then either applied submission holds or strikes until he submitted. This was someone who also had a height and weight advantage on me. If that was a street fight ... there's a good possibility he could of wound up dead.

So try to keep in mind that while some things look good while you're in a safe dojo, how would your training help you in a life or death scenario?

I suppose that the reason I'm really looking to get into it is more for my own self discipline and spirit over trying to significantly increase my ability to fight, especially in a competitive style to style sense. I suppose it is going to be more for my personal self exploration, in a sense, so I'm not positive that weighing my fighting ability vs. others is going to be a big factor for me.

Atmas · 03-09-2009, 06:43 PM

Alhough it is generally not a great idea to tout one's experience in martial arts (it gives rise to chips on shoulders and all sorts of challenges and ridiculous hootenanny), I have trained in and studied martial arts in several disciplines for several decades. My training has largely focused on Korean styles though some of them bear striking resemblance to certain Japanese disciplines.
And yes, I have studied tai chi chuan for some years. The beauty of tai chi (and baguazhang and the other so-called "internal" styles) is that it really is a form of moving meditation. Alternative health practitioners tout its ability to help lower blood pressure almost without effort.
And it is a martial art. But be careful: you won't be jumping about and kicking through bricks with it. The actual martial aspects reveal themselves very, very gradually and so for self defense it is a rather poor choice if you're seeking immediate benefit.
But if you stay with it and practice for a sufficient period, you will understand why great tai chi masters are considered indomitable. But a sufficient period is often thought to be 15 to 20 years, far longer than most martial arts.

For several years I studied a martial art called iaito, which is the art of drawing the Japanese sword from the scabbard and attacking the opponent in one motion. I desired a highly refined enterprise that involved mental concentration and physical precision, but with no real applicable self-defense aspects. It certainly provided that.

ngdawg · 03-09-2009, 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MacGuyver

That's a very interesting point. It doesn't seem like these places are really a chain persay but they are certainly a business. The Tai Chi wasn't bad, I'd probably choose the option where I can pay $150 for fourteen weeks worth of instruction at any classes that I want to. There are cheaper, more specific rates for particular classes and times, but I feel like this is the best value and that he's not really screwing me at all. I mean the guy does need to make a living.

However, the boxing was a friggin arm and a leg. There are 3 programs of fight, only the last of which is any contact person to person.

If you 'pre-register' for all three its $700 instead of $900. But holy shit, that seems like a lot of money still. This isn't exactly chain, but its probably the only serious gym that I found on the internet around the western part of the state. This is the one I'm a little skeptical about.

I don't mean find free classes, of course. There are some places around here that have a certain amount of weeks of instruction, give you a payment coupon book and then, if you want to test for your belt, charge for the testing and the belt itself. The belt must be earned, not bought. To sell it to a student because he or she did their 12 weeks is not a true measure of their achievements.

Some Y's may offer the martial arts so that'd be another place to check out.

xxSquirtxx · 03-09-2009, 10:19 PM

Since I was in my early 20s, I'd always wanted to learn some form of martial arts. Several years ago I got the opportunity to finally do it. In my case, Tae Kwon Do. I enjoy it immensely. Since it's mostly a kicking martial art, it's a damn good work out most of the time. Even doing forms gets the sweat going.

wayneferrell479 · 03-12-2009, 11:05 PM

Arnis. Its purpose was to learn rapidly as the invaders approached.

cyklone · 03-18-2009, 10:41 PM

I have studied a number of martial arts and had the opportunity to observe different teachers from within several arts over the last 40 years. My conclusion is that it is not the art which makes the difference, but the instructor, or sensei. Forget the name on the art and just look at who is doing the teaching. Do they have a philosophy you agree with and are they focussed on teaching their skills, or making money? Are they the type of person for whom you would feel respect? Are there any women in the class (I've noticed that if there are no women, it is frequently because the culture of the club is too macho)?

03-05-2009, 10:19 PM	#1 (permalink)
MacGuyver You're going to have to trust me! Location: Massachusetts	Martial Arts I'm not exactly sure where this type of thing should go, so I suppose it can be in general discussion for now. I was thinking tomorrow of going to check out local locations for Tai Chi. Tai Chi seems to be kind of a more spiritually cleansing type of martial arts that can serve as a meditation through movement from what I've kind of seen or read, which isn't much. The place I'm going to go look at also does Chi Kung, Pa Kua Chang, and Wu Chi Kung Fu, none of which I am familiar with. I have never done martial arts and my curiosity has really been spiking lately, so I am thinking of doing something about it. I'm also going to look at a boxing facility. My goals are to become not only physically fit, but to kind of have a physical outlet that will sort of cleanse my mind and my 'spirit' so to speak. I've never been big on this kind of stuff, but its an idea that has kind of been compelling me to try it. Another one of my friends has also been plugging Buddhism. Which I'm not sure if I really wanted to get into the more religious side of spiritual cleansing. I was mostly curious if anyone had any experience, or sufficient knowledge about any of these things, what your familiarity and your opinion of the experiences are. Any other chatter pertinent to the subject is welcome as well, I'm open to hearing more options of what everyone thinks! __________________ We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence then, is not an act, but a habit. ---Aristotle Deeds, not words, shall speak [for] me. ---John Fletcher

03-05-2009, 10:37 PM	#2 (permalink)
ngdawg peekaboo Location: on the back, bitch	The first thing I would tell you is don't go to a chain. Find a private or single instruction class. Chains sell their belts-private instructors make you earn them. If you aren't sure, ask and if they say you have to pay for your belt, head for the door. The spouse took Kendo (if I remember correctly) Karate and the flexibility and fitness he got from it were terrific. He got to blue and then quit, though. And after all these years, I'm still not allowed to toss out his Ghi __________________ Don't blame me. I didn't vote for either of'em.

03-05-2009, 10:52 PM	#4 (permalink)
Atreides88 Insane Location: The South.	I've been doing a mixture of Karate, Tang Su Do, and Judo for a little over a year now. I would definitely recommend getting into it. It's good fun and great for developing physical fitness. __________________ "There is no need to suppose that human beings differ very much one from another: but it is true that the ones who come out on top are the ones who have been trained in the hardest school." -- Thucydides

03-05-2009, 11:06 PM	#5 (permalink)
SSJTWIZTA Master Thief. Master Criminal. Masturbator. Location: Windiwana	i was forced to go to tae kwon do classes as a kid. it was my parents idea of daycare with benefits. one good thing came out of it. it totally beat the desire to fight right out of me. __________________ First they came for the Jews and I did not speak out because I was not a Jew. Then they came for the communists and I did not speak out because I was not a communist. Then they came for the trade unionists and I did not speak out because I was not a trade unionist Then they came for me And there was no one left to speak out for me. -Pastor Martin Niemoller

03-06-2009, 06:33 AM	#7 (permalink)
stevie667 Too Awesome for Aardvarks Location: Angloland	Try Aikido (granted i'm biased, but still), it has a large spiritual component if you want it to, great for flexibility and generally the people who practice it are a great bunch. If you can find a school/class that is associated or affiliated to the Aikikai, which is run by the grandson of the founder and retains the most of the original intentions. __________________ Office hours have changed. Please call during office hours for more information.

03-05-2009, 10:41 PM	#3 (permalink)
Willravel ... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.	Bruce Lee started with Tai Chi (Chuan, Yu style), so it's probably a great place to start. The spiritual aspect of martial arts is often very subjective. There are vague lessons on chi, but it's nothing like western religion. I would classify it more as philosophy. I took several kinds of martial arts when I was younger, and I found it to be something very important and enjoyable. I particularly enjoyed Kali, Muay Tai, and Jeet Kune Do, but I've really not had a chance to sample all there is out there yet. I suggest looking at the philosophies and aspects of many different martial arts before deciding on one or two. Don't be afraid to test-drive a dojo/gym. Some schools only see martial arts as a sport, and they very often are commercialized versions of martial arts that end up not being functional in a real fight. In my experience, it's best to avoid schools with a lot of very young students with soccer moms. You may want to start exercising before joining a school, too, in order to increase your advancement. I don't suggest anything silly, but maybe some running, weights, and stretching (please use programs from professionals). Anyway, I wish you the best and I hope your experience is as rewarding as mine was.

03-06-2009, 10:10 AM	#8 (permalink)
ChrisJericho eat more fruit Location: Seattle	I've done Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu (3 years) Karate (2 years) and Judo (1 year) and to be honest I have benefited very much from each one of these styles. By this I mean, because of Karate I can out-strike most grapplers, and because of BJJ I can out-grapple most strikers. And because of judo, I can throw them all ! But getting to your question that you want "to kind of have a physical outlet that will sort of cleanse my mind and my 'spirit' so to speak." it sounds like you are more interested into the philosophical elements of martial arts rather than self defense. If this is true, then the Kung Fu/Tai Chi school should be fine, they will likely have you do lots of physical exercises and memorize fighting forms. Be warned though, I have a friend that did some style of Kung Fu for for 2 or 3 years and we decided to have a friendly sparring match (with gloves and mouth pieces of course). I consistently took him down or threw him and then either applied submission holds or strikes until he submitted. This was someone who also had a height and weight advantage on me. If that was a street fight ... there's a good possibility he could of wound up dead. So try to keep in mind that while some things look good while you're in a safe dojo, how would your training help you in a life or death scenario? __________________ "A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows us that faith proves nothing." - Friedrich Nietzsche

03-06-2009, 10:18 AM	#9 (permalink)
Glory's Sun Registered User	Muay Thai. 'nuff said. It's deep in tradition and has spiritual aspects as well.. plus you can use 8 point strikes as opposed to 4. I love it. Jiu-Jitsu is great, but you have to find a great trainer. Alot of BJJ instructors these days hand out belts far too easily. If you can find someone who has studied the Gracie style for many many years then go for it. Just make sure that belts are given by performance, not by dollars. That applies to anything in the MMA world though. Don't just go somewhere where they will show you how to do things for the sake of money..find people who are devoted to the artform and it's history.

03-09-2009, 06:43 PM	#11 (permalink)
Atmas Upright	Alhough it is generally not a great idea to tout one's experience in martial arts (it gives rise to chips on shoulders and all sorts of challenges and ridiculous hootenanny), I have trained in and studied martial arts in several disciplines for several decades. My training has largely focused on Korean styles though some of them bear striking resemblance to certain Japanese disciplines. And yes, I have studied tai chi chuan for some years. The beauty of tai chi (and baguazhang and the other so-called "internal" styles) is that it really is a form of moving meditation. Alternative health practitioners tout its ability to help lower blood pressure almost without effort. And it is a martial art. But be careful: you won't be jumping about and kicking through bricks with it. The actual martial aspects reveal themselves very, very gradually and so for self defense it is a rather poor choice if you're seeking immediate benefit. But if you stay with it and practice for a sufficient period, you will understand why great tai chi masters are considered indomitable. But a sufficient period is often thought to be 15 to 20 years, far longer than most martial arts. For several years I studied a martial art called iaito, which is the art of drawing the Japanese sword from the scabbard and attacking the opponent in one motion. I desired a highly refined enterprise that involved mental concentration and physical precision, but with no real applicable self-defense aspects. It certainly provided that. Last edited by Atmas; 03-09-2009 at 06:47 PM..

03-09-2009, 10:19 PM	#13 (permalink)
xxSquirtxx More anal, less shenanigans Location: Always lurking	Since I was in my early 20s, I'd always wanted to learn some form of martial arts. Several years ago I got the opportunity to finally do it. In my case, Tae Kwon Do. I enjoy it immensely. Since it's mostly a kicking martial art, it's a damn good work out most of the time. Even doing forms gets the sweat going. __________________ .

03-12-2009, 11:05 PM	#14 (permalink)
wayneferrell479 Upright	Arnis. Its purpose was to learn rapidly as the invaders approached.

03-18-2009, 10:41 PM	#15 (permalink)
cyklone Crazy Location: Adelaide, South Australia	I have studied a number of martial arts and had the opportunity to observe different teachers from within several arts over the last 40 years. My conclusion is that it is not the art which makes the difference, but the instructor, or sensei. Forget the name on the art and just look at who is doing the teaching. Do they have a philosophy you agree with and are they focussed on teaching their skills, or making money? Are they the type of person for whom you would feel respect? Are there any women in the class (I've noticed that if there are no women, it is frequently because the culture of the club is too macho)?