Pharmacy Refuses Birth Control Sales - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

UKking · 10-23-2008, 02:08 PM

Quote:

Pharmacy Refuses Birth Control Sales

CHANTILLY, Va. (Oct. 22) - A new drug store at a Virginia strip mall is putting its faith in an unconventional business plan: No candy. No sodas. And no birth control. Divine Mercy Care Pharmacy is among at least seven pharmacies across the nation that are refusing as a matter of faith to sell contraceptives of any kind, even if a person has a prescription.

States across the country have been wrestling with the issue of pharmacists who refuse on religious grounds to dispense birth control or morning-after pills, and some have enacted laws requiring drug stores to fill the prescriptions.

In Virginia, though, pharmacists can turn away any prescription for any reason.
"I am grateful to be able to practice," pharmacy manager Robert Semler said, "where my conscience will never be violated and my faith does not have to be checked at the door each morning."

Semler ran a similar pharmacy before opening the new store, which is not far from Dulles International Airport. The store only sells items that are health-related, including vitamins, skin care products and over-the-counter medications.

On Tuesday, the pharmacy celebrated a blessing from Arlington Bishop Paul S. Loverde. While Divine Mercy Care is not affiliated with the Roman Catholic Church, it is guided by church teachings on sexuality, which forbid any form of artificial contraception, including morning-after pills, condoms and birth control pills, a common prescription used by millions of women in the U.S.

"This pharmacy is a vibrant example of our Holy Father's charge to all of us to wear our faith in the public square," said Loverde, who sprinkled holy water on the shelves stocked with painkillers and acne treatments. "It will allow families to shop in an environment where their faith is not compromised."

The drug store is the seventh in the country to be certified as not prescribing birth control by Pharmacists for Life International. The anti-abortion group estimates that perhaps hundreds of other pharmacies have similar policies, though they have not been certified.

Earlier this year in Wisconsin, a state appeals court upheld sanctions against a pharmacist who refused to dispense birth control pills to a woman and wouldn't transfer her prescription elsewhere. Elsewhere, at least seven states require pharmacies or pharmacists to fill contraceptive prescriptions, according to the National Women's Law Center. Four states explicitly give pharmacists the right to turn away any prescriptions, the group said.

The Virginia store's policy has drawn scorn from some abortion rights groups, who have already called for a boycott and collected more than 1,000 signatures protesting the pharmacy.

"If this emboldens other pharmacies in other parts of the state, it could really affect low-income and rural women in terms of access," said Tarina Keene, executive director of the Virginia chapter of the National Abortion Rights Action League.

Robert Laird, executive director of Divine Mercy Care, believes many of the estimated 50,000 Catholics within a few miles of the store will support its mission and make up for the roughly 10 percent of business that contraceptives represent in a typical pharmacy.

Whether Catholics will be drawn to the pharmacy is uncertain. According to a Gallup poll published last year for an extensive study of U.S. Catholicism called American Catholics Today, 75 percent of U.S. Catholics said you can still be a good Catholic even if you don't obey church teachings on birth control.

Catherine Muskett said she plans to shop at the drug store even though she lives more than 20 miles away.

"Obviously it's good to support pro-life causes. Every little bit counts," said Muskett, one of about 75 people who crowded into the tiny shop for Tuesday's ceremony.

Isn't there a law in the States against this? Or maybe I've got it backwards and it's a law allowing it?

Oh, re-read the quote and I see that in some states there is that law. Anyways, if you want to refuse a prescription for birth control, then I am of the opinion that you had better make sure that there is someone else who will provide them with their prescription. It's one thing if you don't want to give the prescription, but it's not okay with me that you are preventing someone from obtaining the medication that they need.

Frosstbyte · 10-23-2008, 02:36 PM

I have a hard time with situations like this. I understand people want to be pharmacists and not compromise their beliefs to do so, but, at the same time, I don't see how it is in any way a pharmacist's business to do anything but to provide the medicines prescribed by doctors to patients. It'd be like the guy at the counter of an electronics store not wanting to give you the TV you bought from the PoS with the salesman because he doesn't like the brand. Their function is not to decide who gets what kind of medicine or how much of that medicine to give someone or how to use it. Their function is purely as a middle man to package the bulk pharmaceuticals into smaller packages for individual use.

I guess when I think about it, I think that if you decide to be a pharmacist, you should have to leave your opinions at the door, unless you can provide the person with a reasonable alternative to procure their medicine. If you're the only place within 1000 miles, tough cookies. If you didn't want to provide medicine to people based on your beliefs, you should've found a different line of work.

Rekna · 10-23-2008, 02:44 PM

I think this is ridiculous. If the patient has a prescription then they should have to fill it. If my beliefs said I shouldn't sell anything to black people would that make it ok for me not to serve black people?

Vigilante · 10-23-2008, 03:31 PM

Agreed. Things like this that seem to put us back several hundred years piss me off to no end.

FoolThemAll · 10-23-2008, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UKking

Anyways, if you want to refuse a prescription for birth control, then I am of the opinion that you had better make sure that there is someone else who will provide them with their prescription.

It's your responsibility to find a pharmacist willing to offer you what you want. Or, rather, sometimes it is and always it should be.

Or you could try making the contraceptive yourself. Then you can credibly claim a 'right'.
-----Added 23/10/2008 at 07 : 44 : 35-----

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rekna

If my beliefs said I shouldn't sell anything to black people would that make it ok for me not to serve black people?

Should you be allowed to refuse a voluntary transaction of some of your stuff for some of someone else's stuff? Of course.
-----Added 23/10/2008 at 07 : 46 : 32-----

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frosstbyte

I have a hard time with situations like this. I understand people want to be pharmacists and not compromise their beliefs to do so, but, at the same time, I don't see how it is in any way a pharmacist's business to do anything but to provide the medicines prescribed by doctors to patients.

Then you can fire that pharmacist.

What? You're not the employer?

Then why is it any of your business?

genuinegirly · 10-23-2008, 03:47 PM

This is just one drug store. There are other drug stores in the area (a Rite-Aid, and a Kmart with a pharmacy are both nearby). They are going for a certain niche market. They are practicing in a state where the business practice they have chosen is legal.

I really see no problem with their policy. Everyone knows what to expect when they walk into this store. With a name like "Divine Mercy" it's glaringly obvious that they would like to uphold their faith.

I cannot fault them. I also would not go out of my way to support their business.

Baraka_Guru · 10-23-2008, 03:53 PM

What next? Will the pharmacy start selling papal indulgences? Maybe the pharmacists should be cross-trained as pardoners.

What's with the painkillers and acne treatments? Isn't this vanity and the skipping-out on sufferance?

What an odd little store.

However, I can't say it's wrong of them to decide what they do or do not sell if they aren't breaking the law. Some stores don't sell cultural products featuring profanity or sex. That isn't something new.

Frosstbyte · 10-23-2008, 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FoolThemAll

Then you can fire that pharmacist.

What? You're not the employer?

Then why is it any of your business?

It's my business when people who have been prescribed medicine cannot get that medicine because a holier-than-thou pharmacist puts his individual beliefs above the medical needs of a patient and the medical advice of a doctor.

Now, as indicated, in this particular instance, that doesn't seem to be a problem, because there are easily accessible alternatives. My concern is what would happen if such a pharmacy were to be the only reasonably accessible pharmacy. I believe that the need of the patients to have their prescriptions fulfilled outweighs the need of the pharmacist to take his moral stand.

But then you get into an obnoxious mess about what is "reasonable" access and "necessary" prescriptions. So I say, do away with it.

Peaches · 10-23-2008, 04:36 PM

This is a privately owned business. Why should anyone have the right to come in and dictate what they must, and must not sell, so long as they operate within the law? Profitability will ultimately decide if the concept and the pharmacy survive.

inBOIL · 10-23-2008, 05:14 PM

Suppose a pharmacist decides to get out of the business and convert his pharmacy to a skating rink. Suppose also that his pharmacy is the only reasonably accessible pharmacy for many people. Should he be forced to stay in the business? Does the need of his customers to have their prescriptions filled outweigh his desire to change his business? What if he wants to retire instead, and a replacement can't be found?

Willravel · 10-23-2008, 05:35 PM

There's a Planned Parenthood in Farifax (less than 2 miles from Chantilly). People needing birth control should go there.

Jozrael · 10-23-2008, 05:45 PM

Despite having differing feelings on this topic, inBOIL's comment clarified this for me.

mcgeedo · 10-23-2008, 06:07 PM

For those who feel that the pharmacists should be forced in some way to provide what you feel he should provide, what then is the solution? USPS (US Pharmacy Service)?

Jozrael · 10-23-2008, 06:16 PM

I don't feel the pharmacist should be forced, a la inBOIL's comment coupled with others. Perhaps a direct USPS route to the manufacturer? But then they need a server-side system to manage prescriptions :\.

Pharmacists make this so much easier ><.

Ayashe · 10-23-2008, 06:18 PM

I guess it is up to them to decide what they will sell in their own store. Shame though, there are other uses for birth control pills. There is always another way.

inBOIL · 10-23-2008, 06:46 PM

There are online pharmacies, and I'm sure they sell more than just viagra. It may take a little more planning than dropping off your prescription on the way to work and picking it up on the way home, but I think this is a viable option for most people. It may cost more, but there are so many important goods (food, electricity, gasoline) that cost more in some areas than others.

dlish · 10-23-2008, 07:39 PM

i have no problem with him not selling whatever he wants. its his store. his business. if me dow ell, and good luck. he may not, and he'll reap what he sows.

theres no difference from say an owner of a 7-11 store who decides he's not going to sell playboy in his store. i have no problem with that either.

like GG said. its not illegal, so be it.

Bill O'Rights · 10-24-2008, 05:16 AM

This isn't the pharmacist refusing to sell prescription drugs based upon his own personal beliefs. This is a pharmacy setting up a business model. The name of the pharmacy is even Divine Mercy Care Pharmacy. You kinda know what you're gonna get before you walk in the door. This ain't your father's Rite-Aid.

Quote:

"It will allow families to shop in an environment where their faith is not compromised."

I have absolutely 0 problem with that. The business will either succeed or fail based upon that model. It will either attract customers, or it will repel them. If you disagree with their business practices, then go to Walgreen's. I would.

SabrinaFair · 10-24-2008, 05:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill O'Rights

This isn't the pharmacist refusing to sell prescription drugs based upon his own personal beliefs. This is a pharmacy setting up a business model. The name of the pharmacy is even Divine Mercy Care Pharmacy. You kinda know what you're gonna get before you walk in the door. This ain't your father's Rite-Aid.

I have absolutely 0 problem with that. The business will either succeed or fail based upon that model. It will either attract customers, or it will repel them. If you disagree with their business practices, then go to Walgreen's. I would.

Very well said. I have strong feelings about a right to birth control, but I don't think there is a corollary duty of all pharmacists to fill that prescription.

Now I seem to remember hearing about a case a couple of years ago where a big-box pharmacist (Wal-Mart? Target? something along those lines) objected to filling a prescription to b.c. on moral grounds, refused to fill it, AND refused to return the prescription to the customer. Now THAT i'd be pissy about....

Bill O'Rights · 10-24-2008, 05:52 AM

SabrinaFair?

Wow! Now there's a name that I haven't seen in a looong time.

Welcome home.

FoolThemAll · 10-25-2008, 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frosstbyte

It's my business when people who have been prescribed medicine cannot get that medicine because a holier-than-thou pharmacist puts his individual beliefs above the medical needs of a patient and the medical advice of a doctor.

Nope, still isn't your business. Because it isn't the pharmacist's responsibility to take care of every last person with a medical need. The pharmacist's responsibility is to do an adequate job of taking care of those people that s/he chooses to take on.

[/quote]I believe that the need of the patients to have their prescriptions fulfilled outweighs the need of the pharmacist to take his moral stand.[/quote]

That's the problem with a 'right' to medical care: it inevitably intrudes upon property rights in unjust ways. 'Need' != 'right'.

ktspktsp · 10-25-2008, 05:24 PM

Well, personally, I find it shocking. I think some fields should be regulated more than others, and that applies to pharmacies. And that you can't let personal feelings of pharmacists enter in this, much like doctors are bound by the hippocratic oath. So if a product (birth control) is legitimate, then it should be available, and the pharmacist should not be able to deny it to customers. I don't particularly care if the right of the pharmacist to do whatever they want is infringed upon; in many ways they're already a heavily regulated business in what they can sell or not, and that's the way it should be in my opinion.

But it's not like I'm a libertarian anyway.

highdro69 · 10-25-2008, 06:33 PM

No no you guys, you have it all wrong. For you see, this particular pharmacy is actually a physical rift in space time and is a portal back to the year 1923.
Wonder if they make black people stand in a different line in this pharmacy.....
This is just typical reactionary crap from people who think on the right (wrong) side of things.
edit: A pharmacy is tantamount to a public service. A lot of small towns only have one or two pharmacies in them. To deny a basic thing such as birth control merely starts things down a slippery slope: if one place refuses to sell birth control, obviously they would then refuse to sell condoms. And what of treatment of venereal disease? These kinds of crazy right wing places (and the church's stance) say that VD is just god's punishment, so sooner or later said pharmacy cuts back on their basic treatment of disease. It may, on paper, be a private business, but in reality a pharmacy is just as important to the public as a fire hydrant.

Reese · 10-25-2008, 06:39 PM

There was another thread on TFP about Pharmacies refusing to fill prescriptions a few years ago. It was something about a pharmacy refusing to fill a prescription that couldn't be filled within x miles. This isn't exactly the same thing though. This is about a company deciding not to sell a specific product and that's cool. I don't go to Home Depot looking for tennis shoes, I wouldn't go to a christian pro-life pharmacy to get some morning after pills. I did have a problem with the Wisconsin pharmacy mentioned in the article refusing to fill a prescription then refusing to transfer the prescription to another pharmacy though.

Frosstbyte · 10-26-2008, 12:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FoolThemAll

Nope, still isn't your business. Because it isn't the pharmacist's responsibility to take care of every last person with a medical need. The pharmacist's responsibility is to do an adequate job of taking care of those people that s/he chooses to take on.

That's the problem with a 'right' to medical care: it inevitably intrudes upon property rights in unjust ways. 'Need' != 'right'.

To quote the Dude, "That's just, like, your opinion, man."

I think ktsp really said it well. I don't think pharmacists are "just another business owner." I think they have a unique duty to individuals who come in with prescriptions, and that duty is to fill the prescription given by a doctor to the patient. They don't get to decide to give more or less or a different medicine. Their job is to enable patients to receive the medicine they're prescribed. That's not a "right" to medical care, that's simply the definition of a pharmacy. If someone has a problem with that, I think he has found himself in the wrong field.

mcgeedo · 10-27-2008, 04:20 AM

frost, does a grocery store have a "unique duty" to provide food for those who can't afford it? Does your local Sell station have a "unique duty" to sell gas at a price that the poorest can afford? At what point does the government have the right to regulate what "must" be sold, at what price? And far, far more importantly, who gets to decide?

Jozrael · 10-27-2008, 05:07 AM

For the second time I find mcgeedo summing up my thoughts. xD

Push-Pull · 10-27-2008, 05:07 AM

Like many others above, I'd simply go somewhere else. But where I think the line needs to be drawn is when the pharmacist refuses to give back the prescription, or refusing to transfer it, preventing the person from obtaining it at all. That's interfering with another's rights.

little_tippler · 10-27-2008, 05:37 AM

mcgeedo, I think your grocery store analogy is poor. As Frosstbyte says, a pharmacy is a pharmacy. Not a grocery store. It should be regulated differently. Personal beliefs of the pharmacist should not be allowed to enter into it. We are not talking about a pharmacist denying the poor their medicine. We're talking about a pharmacist denying any person the choice to buy contraception. A pharmacy, is a business that cashes in on peoples' medical needs and in some cases, misfortune. I think the pharmacist is wrong to be forcing his own beliefs upon others, especially in light of the kind of business he has decided to open.

dlish · 10-27-2008, 06:44 AM

ok a spanner in the works..

say someone who lives next door to this pharmacy....falls pregnant. can they sue this dude for not providing a service of selling contraception?? i think not.

if not, i doubt you can force the guy to sell contraception just because society tells him to.

i personally think its wrong..but its his choice at the end of the day. he's probably selling to a specific market that have the same ideology.

in sydney you have areas where halal food is not sold only by muslim population, but by non muslims too. only for the fact that its what the market is asking forfor those pockets of areas. if the market is hot for something and you provide the goods or services that generate business, then i have no problem with it. unless its drugs or something like that.

Peaches · 10-27-2008, 07:32 AM

OB/GYN doctors are not required to perform abortions. Conscientious objectors are not required to fight and kill in wars. We do not force parents to inoculate their children if it is against their religious beliefs, even though it may pose a danger to other children. One of this country's founding concepts is the belief that every person has the right to exercise (or not) their religious beliefs. The key word there is "exercise", not just have beliefs, but live by them.

MSD · 10-27-2008, 07:32 AM

If you don't want to dispense legitimate medication to someone who has a prescription, you should find a career in another field. What if they refused to dispense Ritalin because they believe ADD isn't a real disorder? What if a Christian Scientist ... well now I just have a hilarious mental image of an empty Christian Science pharmacy.

Willravel · 10-27-2008, 07:35 AM

Or a Scientology pharmacy with only vitamins and e-meters. Would they get a tax break?

dlish · 10-27-2008, 07:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MSD

If you don't want to dispense legitimate medication to someone who has a prescription, you should find a career in another field. What if they refused to dispense Ritalin because they believe ADD isn't a real disorder? What if a Christian Scientist ... well now I just have a hilarious mental image of an empty Christian Science pharmacy.

but ADD isnt a real disorder..

ok just kidding..

i see your point, but at what point do you tell religious people that they cannot do there job based on religious views? once again ill bring in the halal analogy....its like telling a halal buchery that is either forced to sell pork with everything else or just close shop because society doesnt agree with him.

FoolThemAll · 10-27-2008, 08:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MSD

If you don't want to dispense legitimate medication to someone who has a prescription, you should find a career in another field. What if they refused to dispense Ritalin because they believe ADD isn't a real disorder?

No, you should find another store. As the sibling of someone who takes Ritalin for ADHD, you find another store.

We once didn't even have ritalin. How the hell can it be a right? How the hell can someone have a 'duty' to provide it? Are you really sure you're not confusing 'duty' with 'it would be nice if they did this'?

A pharmacist isn't and shouldn't be bound to enter into every possible transaction that their license allows, no more than an OB/GYN is required to handle every single patient request. You misdefine the profession and confuse 'the patient wants this' with 'the pharmacist owes this'.

mcgeedo · 10-27-2008, 08:15 AM

What is being confused is not rights OR duty. It's "I want" and therefore "I deserve." The government has to take care of me because I can't take care of myself.

Peaches · 10-27-2008, 08:27 AM

This pharmacist is in a situation where he is not only the pharmacist, but the owner of the company. This gives him the ability to make the business policy. Most chain pharmacies sell contraceptives, and a pharmacist who cannot live with the corporate policy in a chain like that does not belong working there. It is not up to the corporation to accommodate his beliefs, it's up to him to find a place of employment that will leave him with a clear conscience.

I would take the halal analogy and turn it around. Should all butchers be required to sell halal meats? After all, it would create severe emotional distress for an observant person who could not obtain the type of meat that they need. Just as it might create severe emotional distress for a woman who can't obtain her prescription in that pharmacy. When does the individual need outweigh the right of the owner of a private business?

CandleInTheDark · 10-27-2008, 08:52 AM

Fool Them All makes an excellent point. Just because you have a full capacity of decisions to make as a professional, does not mean you have to enact all those decisions. Forcing a person to take an action against their good conscience is wrong.

MSD · 10-27-2008, 09:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FoolThemAll

No, you should find another store. As the sibling of someone who takes Ritalin for ADHD, you find another store.

We once didn't even have ritalin. How the hell can it be a right? How the hell can someone have a 'duty' to provide it? Are you really sure you're not confusing 'duty' with 'it would be nice if they did this'?

A pharmacist isn't and shouldn't be bound to enter into every possible transaction that their license allows, no more than an OB/GYN is required to handle every single patient request. You misdefine the profession and confuse 'the patient wants this' with 'the pharmacist owes this'.

I never said it was a right. Just as I wouldn't choose to become a police officer because I would not be willing to enforce certain laws, someone who is unwilling to dispense medication to patients should not choose to become a pharmacist.

mrklixx · 10-27-2008, 09:48 AM

A couple of comments/questions.

I think the semantics of this story are all wrong. The continued use of "refusing to sell" is misleading. That makes it sound as if he has a stockpile on hand, but refuses to distribute it. When the truth of the matter is, he simply chooses not to carry that product. I've gone to pharmacies before, with a prescription for various medicines, and been informed that they don't carry that product. They don't tell me whether that decision, is based on philosophical, financial, or logistical reasons. Simply, "we don't have that". So I go somewhere else.

Quote:

In Virginia, though, pharmacists can turn away any prescription for any reason.

So they could deny someone a prescription because they are black?

Quote:

CHANTILLY, Va. (Oct. 22) - A new drug store at a Virginia strip mall is putting its faith in an unconventional business plan: No candy. No sodas. And no birth control.

Are candy and carbonated beverages against the Catholic church? I also think that it's interesting that they didn't mention cigarettes.

Lastly, I wonder if they sell Kleenex?

10-23-2008, 03:31 PM	#4 (permalink)
Vigilante Broken Arrow Location: US	Agreed. Things like this that seem to put us back several hundred years piss me off to no end. __________________ We contend that for a nation to try to tax itself into prosperity is like a man standing in a bucket and trying to lift himself up by the handle. -Winston Churchill

10-23-2008, 03:47 PM	#6 (permalink)
genuinegirly Eat your vegetables Super Moderator Location: Arabidopsis-ville	This is just one drug store. There are other drug stores in the area (a Rite-Aid, and a Kmart with a pharmacy are both nearby). They are going for a certain niche market. They are practicing in a state where the business practice they have chosen is legal. I really see no problem with their policy. Everyone knows what to expect when they walk into this store. With a name like "Divine Mercy" it's glaringly obvious that they would like to uphold their faith. I cannot fault them. I also would not go out of my way to support their business. __________________ "Sometimes I have to remember that things are brought to me for a reason, either for my own lessons or for the benefit of others." Cynthetiq "violence is no more or less real than non-violence." roachboy

10-23-2008, 03:53 PM	#7 (permalink)
Baraka_Guru warrior bodhisattva Super Moderator Location: East-central Canada	What next? Will the pharmacy start selling papal indulgences? Maybe the pharmacists should be cross-trained as pardoners. What's with the painkillers and acne treatments? Isn't this vanity and the skipping-out on sufferance? What an odd little store. However, I can't say it's wrong of them to decide what they do or do not sell if they aren't breaking the law. Some stores don't sell cultural products featuring profanity or sex. That isn't something new. __________________ Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing? —Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön Humankind cannot bear very much reality. —From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot Last edited by Baraka_Guru; 10-23-2008 at 04:05 PM..

10-23-2008, 05:14 PM	#10 (permalink)
inBOIL I have eaten the slaw	Suppose a pharmacist decides to get out of the business and convert his pharmacy to a skating rink. Suppose also that his pharmacy is the only reasonably accessible pharmacy for many people. Should he be forced to stay in the business? Does the need of his customers to have their prescriptions filled outweigh his desire to change his business? What if he wants to retire instead, and a replacement can't be found? __________________ And you believe Bush and the liberals and divorced parents and gays and blacks and the Christian right and fossil fuels and Xbox are all to blame, meanwhile you yourselves create an ad where your kid hits you in the head with a baseball and you don't understand the message that the problem is you.

10-23-2008, 06:46 PM	#16 (permalink)
inBOIL I have eaten the slaw	There are online pharmacies, and I'm sure they sell more than just viagra. It may take a little more planning than dropping off your prescription on the way to work and picking it up on the way home, but I think this is a viable option for most people. It may cost more, but there are so many important goods (food, electricity, gasoline) that cost more in some areas than others. __________________ And you believe Bush and the liberals and divorced parents and gays and blacks and the Christian right and fossil fuels and Xbox are all to blame, meanwhile you yourselves create an ad where your kid hits you in the head with a baseball and you don't understand the message that the problem is you.

10-23-2008, 02:36 PM	#2 (permalink)
Frosstbyte Winter is Coming Location: The North	I have a hard time with situations like this. I understand people want to be pharmacists and not compromise their beliefs to do so, but, at the same time, I don't see how it is in any way a pharmacist's business to do anything but to provide the medicines prescribed by doctors to patients. It'd be like the guy at the counter of an electronics store not wanting to give you the TV you bought from the PoS with the salesman because he doesn't like the brand. Their function is not to decide who gets what kind of medicine or how much of that medicine to give someone or how to use it. Their function is purely as a middle man to package the bulk pharmaceuticals into smaller packages for individual use. I guess when I think about it, I think that if you decide to be a pharmacist, you should have to leave your opinions at the door, unless you can provide the person with a reasonable alternative to procure their medicine. If you're the only place within 1000 miles, tough cookies. If you didn't want to provide medicine to people based on your beliefs, you should've found a different line of work.

10-23-2008, 02:44 PM	#3 (permalink)
Rekna Junkie	I think this is ridiculous. If the patient has a prescription then they should have to fill it. If my beliefs said I shouldn't sell anything to black people would that make it ok for me not to serve black people?

10-23-2008, 04:36 PM	#9 (permalink)
Peaches Upright Location: The Land in the Sky	This is a privately owned business. Why should anyone have the right to come in and dictate what they must, and must not sell, so long as they operate within the law? Profitability will ultimately decide if the concept and the pharmacy survive.

10-23-2008, 05:35 PM	#11 (permalink)
Willravel ... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.	There's a Planned Parenthood in Farifax (less than 2 miles from Chantilly). People needing birth control should go there.

10-23-2008, 05:45 PM	#12 (permalink)
Jozrael Junkie	Despite having differing feelings on this topic, inBOIL's comment clarified this for me.

10-23-2008, 06:07 PM	#13 (permalink)
mcgeedo Crazy	For those who feel that the pharmacists should be forced in some way to provide what you feel he should provide, what then is the solution? USPS (US Pharmacy Service)?

10-23-2008, 06:16 PM	#14 (permalink)
Jozrael Junkie	I don't feel the pharmacist should be forced, a la inBOIL's comment coupled with others. Perhaps a direct USPS route to the manufacturer? But then they need a server-side system to manage prescriptions :\. Pharmacists make this so much easier ><.

10-23-2008, 06:18 PM	#15 (permalink)
Ayashe Psycho	I guess it is up to them to decide what they will sell in their own store. Shame though, there are other uses for birth control pills. There is always another way.

10-23-2008, 07:39 PM	#17 (permalink)
dlish Currently sour but formerly Dlishs Super Moderator Location: Australia/UAE	i have no problem with him not selling whatever he wants. its his store. his business. if me dow ell, and good luck. he may not, and he'll reap what he sows. theres no difference from say an owner of a 7-11 store who decides he's not going to sell playboy in his store. i have no problem with that either. like GG said. its not illegal, so be it. __________________ An injustice anywhere, is an injustice everywhere I always sign my facebook comments with ()()===========(}. Does that make me gay? - Filthy

10-24-2008, 05:52 AM	#20 (permalink)
Bill O'Rights will always be an Alyson Hanniganite Location: In the dust of the archives	SabrinaFair? Wow! Now there's a name that I haven't seen in a looong time. Welcome home. __________________ "I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires." - Susan B. Anthony "Hedonism with rules isn't hedonism at all, it's the Republican party." - JumpinJesus It is indisputable that true beauty lies within...but a nice rack sure doesn't hurt.

10-25-2008, 05:24 PM	#22 (permalink)
ktspktsp Addict Location: Reykjavik, Iceland	Well, personally, I find it shocking. I think some fields should be regulated more than others, and that applies to pharmacies. And that you can't let personal feelings of pharmacists enter in this, much like doctors are bound by the hippocratic oath. So if a product (birth control) is legitimate, then it should be available, and the pharmacist should not be able to deny it to customers. I don't particularly care if the right of the pharmacist to do whatever they want is infringed upon; in many ways they're already a heavily regulated business in what they can sell or not, and that's the way it should be in my opinion. But it's not like I'm a libertarian anyway.

10-25-2008, 06:33 PM	#23 (permalink)
highdro69 Crazy Location: Tampa Bay, Florida	No no you guys, you have it all wrong. For you see, this particular pharmacy is actually a physical rift in space time and is a portal back to the year 1923. Wonder if they make black people stand in a different line in this pharmacy..... This is just typical reactionary crap from people who think on the right (wrong) side of things. edit: A pharmacy is tantamount to a public service. A lot of small towns only have one or two pharmacies in them. To deny a basic thing such as birth control merely starts things down a slippery slope: if one place refuses to sell birth control, obviously they would then refuse to sell condoms. And what of treatment of venereal disease? These kinds of crazy right wing places (and the church's stance) say that VD is just god's punishment, so sooner or later said pharmacy cuts back on their basic treatment of disease. It may, on paper, be a private business, but in reality a pharmacy is just as important to the public as a fire hydrant. __________________ "It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society." Last edited by highdro69; 10-25-2008 at 06:38 PM..

10-25-2008, 06:39 PM	#24 (permalink)
Reese Delicious	There was another thread on TFP about Pharmacies refusing to fill prescriptions a few years ago. It was something about a pharmacy refusing to fill a prescription that couldn't be filled within x miles. This isn't exactly the same thing though. This is about a company deciding not to sell a specific product and that's cool. I don't go to Home Depot looking for tennis shoes, I wouldn't go to a christian pro-life pharmacy to get some morning after pills. I did have a problem with the Wisconsin pharmacy mentioned in the article refusing to fill a prescription then refusing to transfer the prescription to another pharmacy though. __________________ “It is better to be rich and healthy than poor and sick” - Dave Barry

10-27-2008, 04:20 AM	#26 (permalink)
mcgeedo Crazy	frost, does a grocery store have a "unique duty" to provide food for those who can't afford it? Does your local Sell station have a "unique duty" to sell gas at a price that the poorest can afford? At what point does the government have the right to regulate what "must" be sold, at what price? And far, far more importantly, who gets to decide?

10-27-2008, 05:07 AM	#27 (permalink)
Jozrael Junkie	For the second time I find mcgeedo summing up my thoughts. xD

10-27-2008, 05:07 AM	#28 (permalink)
Push-Pull I'll ask when I'm ready.... Location: Firmly in the middle....	Like many others above, I'd simply go somewhere else. But where I think the line needs to be drawn is when the pharmacist refuses to give back the prescription, or refusing to transfer it, preventing the person from obtaining it at all. That's interfering with another's rights. __________________ "No laws, no matter how rigidly enforced, can protect a person from their own stupidity." -Me- "Some people are like Slinkies..... They are not really good for anything, but they still bring a smile to your face when you push them down a flight of stairs." -Unknown- DAMMIT! -Jack Bauer-

10-27-2008, 05:37 AM	#29 (permalink)
little_tippler Leaning against the -Sun- Super Moderator Location: on the other side	mcgeedo, I think your grocery store analogy is poor. As Frosstbyte says, a pharmacy is a pharmacy. Not a grocery store. It should be regulated differently. Personal beliefs of the pharmacist should not be allowed to enter into it. We are not talking about a pharmacist denying the poor their medicine. We're talking about a pharmacist denying any person the choice to buy contraception. A pharmacy, is a business that cashes in on peoples' medical needs and in some cases, misfortune. I think the pharmacist is wrong to be forcing his own beliefs upon others, especially in light of the kind of business he has decided to open. __________________ Whether we write or speak or do but look We are ever unapparent. What we are Cannot be transfused into word or book. Our soul from us is infinitely far. However much we give our thoughts the will To be our soul and gesture it abroad, Our hearts are incommunicable still. In what we show ourselves we are ignored. The abyss from soul to soul cannot be bridged By any skill of thought or trick of seeming. Unto our very selves we are abridged When we would utter to our thought our being. We are our dreams of ourselves, souls by gleams, And each to each other dreams of others' dreams. Fernando Pessoa, 1918

10-27-2008, 06:44 AM	#30 (permalink)
dlish Currently sour but formerly Dlishs Super Moderator Location: Australia/UAE	ok a spanner in the works.. say someone who lives next door to this pharmacy....falls pregnant. can they sue this dude for not providing a service of selling contraception?? i think not. if not, i doubt you can force the guy to sell contraception just because society tells him to. i personally think its wrong..but its his choice at the end of the day. he's probably selling to a specific market that have the same ideology. in sydney you have areas where halal food is not sold only by muslim population, but by non muslims too. only for the fact that its what the market is asking forfor those pockets of areas. if the market is hot for something and you provide the goods or services that generate business, then i have no problem with it. unless its drugs or something like that. __________________ An injustice anywhere, is an injustice everywhere I always sign my facebook comments with ()()===========(}. Does that make me gay? - Filthy

10-27-2008, 07:32 AM	#31 (permalink)
Peaches Upright Location: The Land in the Sky	OB/GYN doctors are not required to perform abortions. Conscientious objectors are not required to fight and kill in wars. We do not force parents to inoculate their children if it is against their religious beliefs, even though it may pose a danger to other children. One of this country's founding concepts is the belief that every person has the right to exercise (or not) their religious beliefs. The key word there is "exercise", not just have beliefs, but live by them.

10-27-2008, 07:32 AM	#32 (permalink)
MSD The sky calls to us ... Super Moderator Location: CT	If you don't want to dispense legitimate medication to someone who has a prescription, you should find a career in another field. What if they refused to dispense Ritalin because they believe ADD isn't a real disorder? What if a Christian Scientist ... well now I just have a hilarious mental image of an empty Christian Science pharmacy.

10-27-2008, 07:35 AM	#33 (permalink)
Willravel ... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.	Or a Scientology pharmacy with only vitamins and e-meters. Would they get a tax break?

10-27-2008, 08:15 AM	#36 (permalink)
mcgeedo Crazy	What is being confused is not rights OR duty. It's "I want" and therefore "I deserve." The government has to take care of me because I can't take care of myself.

10-27-2008, 08:27 AM	#37 (permalink)
Peaches Upright Location: The Land in the Sky	This pharmacist is in a situation where he is not only the pharmacist, but the owner of the company. This gives him the ability to make the business policy. Most chain pharmacies sell contraceptives, and a pharmacist who cannot live with the corporate policy in a chain like that does not belong working there. It is not up to the corporation to accommodate his beliefs, it's up to him to find a place of employment that will leave him with a clear conscience. I would take the halal analogy and turn it around. Should all butchers be required to sell halal meats? After all, it would create severe emotional distress for an observant person who could not obtain the type of meat that they need. Just as it might create severe emotional distress for a woman who can't obtain her prescription in that pharmacy. When does the individual need outweigh the right of the owner of a private business?

10-27-2008, 08:52 AM	#38 (permalink)
CandleInTheDark Addict Location: Where the music's loudest	Fool Them All makes an excellent point. Just because you have a full capacity of decisions to make as a professional, does not mean you have to enact all those decisions. Forcing a person to take an action against their good conscience is wrong. __________________ Where there is doubt there is freedom.