Are you afraid of driving? - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Cynthetiq · 08-25-2008, 11:04 AM

Quote:

View: Convicted and incarcerated, yet he doesn't remember a thing
Source: LATimes
posted with the TFP thread generator

Convicted and incarcerated, yet he doesn't remember a thing
Convicted and incarcerated, yet he doesn't remember a thing

With no evidence of speeding, drunk driving or other malfeasance, a jury found George Damaa guilty in a car accident that killed three. He spent two years in jail and is now obsessed with the case.
By Ralph Vartabedian
Los Angeles Times Staff Writer

August 25, 2008

George Damaa awoke after a seven-day coma in Cedars-Sinai Medical Center in 1995, his body shattered for reasons he couldn't remember.

The last thing he recalled was driving up Pacific Coast Highway on a warm Saturday in February with the top down on his sports car and his girlfriend, Lisa Bucher, in the passenger seat. They were headed to the former PierView Cafe & Cantina in Malibu, one of Damaa's favorite restaurants.

As he lay in the hospital, he learned that his pelvis was broken. Six of his ribs were broken. His arm was broken. And he had brain damage from a concussion. Pumped up with painkillers, his thoughts were jumbled.

But his problems were just starting.

The next day, Det. Joseph Jakl of the Los Angeles County Sheriff's Department came to Damaa's room and wanted to know what happened.

He told Jakl that he could not remember the crash but that he thought he was in bumper-to-bumper traffic and had turned left. That statement would prove critical.

Jakl was not taking a simple accident report. Damaa's Mercedes-Benz 500SL had slid across the center line and collided with a Buick Reatta, killing John Masterson -- creator of "The People's Court" and "Queen for a Day" -- and his wife, Mary. Bucher had also died.

Jakl was investigating whether Damaa had acted with negligence and violated one or more sections of the California vehicle code. If so, he would be charged with manslaughter.

There was no evidence of alcohol, drugs, extreme speeding or street racing. Damaa, of L.A., had a clean driving record and no criminal background.

"I had never been in trouble before," Damaa, 63, said.

None of that mattered.

In Los Angeles County, more than 700 fatal crashes occur every year. The vast majority do not result in criminal prosecution, and those that do typically involve impaired driving, illegal street-racing, blatant red light-running or road rage.

But dozens of drivers in other fatal accidents find themselves deep in the criminal prosecution system. The cases change lives and seldom leave the accused drivers or the victims' families satisfied that justice has prevailed.

Craig Datig, a vehicular homicide expert at the California District Attorneys Assn., estimates that about 1,000 people in the U.S. are prosecuted each year for vehicular homicide in accidents that did not involve alcohol or drugs.

"The public doesn't know the risk they are running by their everyday actions," he said.

A momentary distraction in a car -- something as simple as a spilled drink or an unruly child -- can lead to a prosecutable accident. A criminal charge is more likely if the driver has intentionally violated the law. There are many permutations of manslaughter charges, some felonies and others misdemeanors, based on legal standards known as simple or gross negligence.

"Simple negligence is something that might be charged if you are driving at the speed limit and blow a red light," said Tom Higgins, a supervisor for criminal prosecutions at the Los Angeles County district attorney's office. "Gross negligence occurs when you have behavior verging on reckless, without due regard for human life."

A misdemeanor can bring a year in county jail for each death. A felony based on gross negligence can bump the sentence up to six years for each death, assuming no alcohol or drugs were involved.

In California, the number of such criminal prosecutions is rising, in part because the state has aggressive legal standards and in part because, prosecutors say, advances in accident investigation technology allow them to more precisely understand the causes of fatal accidents.

"They are the saddest cases we ever see," Higgins said, referring to his customers who are model citizens one day and criminal defendants the next. "Every time I file one of these cases, I think, 'There but for the grace of God go all of us.' "

Holding drivers more accountable for their actions should make highways safer. But the Damaa case also shows the difficulty of doing that when no one can determine exactly what went on inside a car just before a crash.

Damaa, an immigrant from Lebanon, was general manager of Downtown L.A. Motors, running eight dealerships in Los Angeles for his wealthy uncle. He was initially charged with three felonies for the crash, and prosecutors wanted him to plead out the case. His attorney, the late Charles English, pushed Damaa to agree.

"I refused," Damaa said. "I said I would plea bargain if it were my fault. I could not even remember doing it."

The charges were reduced to misdemeanors, and prosecutor Elizabeth Lippitt, now an L.A. County Superior Court judge, took the case to trial in Malibu on Feb. 18, 1997. Damaa was accused of violating four sections of the vehicle code, including being on the wrong side of the road. There was no question he was on the wrong side of the road, but why?

Though Damaa told Jakl he was turning, there was no place to turn at the accident site, no intersection. The other side of the road has some open space on the shoulder, but is blocked by utility poles, fire hydrants and electronic boxes. And there was no traffic jam.

Detectives assumed Damaa was lying about the traffic jam and telling the truth about turning left, or perhaps he was making a high-speed U-turn.

Damaa later said the left turn must have occurred a few miles earlier, when the couple stopped at another restaurant to see if they could get a table. It sounded to detectives as if he was changing his story.

In her opening statement, Lippitt speculated that Damaa was trying to impress his girlfriend by making a high-speed turn or a U-turn. The trial would introduce no evidence for that motivation. Near the end of the 10-day trial, Lippitt acknowledged to the judge, outside the presence of jurors, "We don't know for sure what happened."

A lengthy accident report initially got the crash location wrong by a full mile, showing that it occurred on a straight stretch of highway. In reality, the road curves where Damaa had crossed the center turn lane.

Detectives also had trouble finding skid marks or other physical evidence crucial to estimating the speeds and angles of the vehicles. "We did the best we could with what we had," Jakl said in court. Both vehicles were traveling 45 to 55 mph, based on Jakl's computations. The posted limit is 45 mph.

Witnesses in four cars saw the accident.

One witness driving behind Damaa said he saw a large cloud of smoke come from under the Mercedes just before it veered out of control. English, Damaa's attorney, said the smoke was evidence of a mechanical problem. A radiator hose was found fractured after the accident. The rear wheels were locked up. And a tire rim was bent, indicating that Damaa may have hit a rock.

All of those factors could have pointed to a mechanical problem that would have cleared Damaa.

But English never offered the jury a coherent theory of how the various pieces of evidence fit together or how they could have caused the car to go out of control.

Lippitt shot holes in English's speculation and called in an expert from the California Highway Patrol who said that a rock would have to be the size of a bowling ball to throw the car off course.

Another witness in a car driven by Elijah Skye Blue Allman, the son of Cher and Gregg Allman, said he saw Damaa turning his steering wheel left -- viewed from a distance estimated at 50 to 350 feet. The witness, Leighton Farr, said in a recent interview that he was sure Damaa was turning the wheel, but that he could not rule out the possibility that Damaa was reacting to a skid.

In a later deposition, Allman said he was too far away to see Damaa turning. The Mercedes "all of a sudden went out of control," Allman said.

The jury found Damaa guilty, and he was sentenced to three years in County Jail. The Masterson family sued Damaa and won millions from an insurance policy held by the dealership. Damaa sued English, alleging that he bungled the defense, and Mercedes-Benz, alleging that a defect caused the car to go out of control. Both cases were dismissed. He also appealed the conviction, relying in part on new evidence developed by veteran accident investigator Robin T. Harrison.

The car went into a spin, but never departed from a straight line and crossed the center line only because the road curved, Harrison found. If Damaa had turned, the car could never have ended up in the position it was in after the accident, a computer simulation showed.

Harrison concluded that the car lost control because a piece of road debris hit the right front wheel and caused the Mercedes' traction-control computer to incorrectly apply braking to the rear wheels, throwing the car into a spin.

Proving that a computer malfunction causes a vehicle to lose control is nearly impossible, although it is well established that auto manufacturers, including Mercedes-Benz, were plagued in the 1990s by electronics glitches in their early control systems, said Clarence Ditlow, executive director of the Center for Auto Safety.

Damaa "was railroaded," Harrison said. "I have spent my life doing accident reconstruction, and the police regularly lead the charge in lousy accident investigation."

The appeal and a subsequent request for a new trial were denied.

Damaa served two years in the county's Twin Towers Correctional Facility, earning a year off for good behavior. After he got out, his life spiraled downhill. He never worked again and today remains obsessed with the case. In several interviews about the crash, he broke down crying.

"It has remained a mystery why he can't let it go," said Dr. J. Victor Monke, a psychiatrist who has treated Damaa since the accident.

The crash left Damaa with post-concussion syndrome, which affected his memory and changed his personality, Monke said. He remains deeply depressed and remorseful, Monke said.

The Mastersons' children have little sympathy.

"It is a pity they couldn't get him for felony manslaughter," said Tucky Masterson, the couple's daughter. "He never accepted any responsibility whatsoever. He never apologized."

Sean Masterson takes a slightly different view.

"I am sorry he still lives this," he said. "Imagine how I feel."

I have always worried about this kind of thing ever since I started driving. I have always taken my role of driver as a supreme responsibility. In high school and college, I was generally the designated driver because I didn't trust anyone to stay sober enough to get me home safely.

I stopped drinking coffee in the mornings at 17 because I stopped short and spilled the hot coffee on my lap. Next morning I had a cold glass Pepsi bottle.

I was extra careful about that when I was riding my motorcycle.

The only accident that I have gotten into that was my fault was one in Singapore. I was driving to Changi Airport to pick up Byrnison in the family car while the rest of the family was touring SE Asia for 3 weeks. The car was full of friends who were escorting me to the airport. I passed a guy on Stevens Road on my way to Bukit Timah. I hit a puddle which caused the car to slide. I counter steered but the velocity of the car was still sliding towards a large tree. I hit the tree in the middle of the B pillar. As I got out of the vehicle I worried about everyone being okay. I was lucky that no one was hurt at all. The car was totalled, and Byrnison had to find his own way to the apartment from the airport as I dealt with the wreckage and the police.

Now, I'm even more conscious of how I'm driving, what I'm doing and how distracted I'm allowing myself to become. I don't like to futz with the radio or cellphones and I find that sometimes I do. But when I catch myself, I remind myself that it's more important to be focused on driving than listening to music or talking to someone.

To me the most important thing when I'm behind the wheel of an automobile is driving. Everything and everyone else is secondary or tertiary. No matter how vigilant I am, something like this could easily happen to me. That is something that has and always will terrify me each and everytime I sit behind the steering wheel of a car.

Halx · 08-25-2008, 11:08 AM

I'm afraid of driving in NYC. Haven't done it yet. Don't know if I will. Anywhere else, I am king of the road.

Willravel · 08-25-2008, 11:12 AM

I've always taken it upon myself to be the designated driver, especially considering that I don't drink alcoholic beverages often. I also consider driving to be a very serious responsibility. The only accident I've been in was someone pulling out from a parking spot without looking and bumping my bumper.

Regarding the above article, based on the information provided he's not guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.

snowy · 08-25-2008, 11:21 AM

Everyone who sits behind that wheel should do so with a little bit of fear; it helps to make one a more defensive and aware driver. Nobody wants to end up like the man in the article. Drivers who are overconfident in their abilities and assertive are dangerous, mostly because they don't see the road the way a defensive driver does. In my job, I am often tasked with transportation duties for small children. I am always very, very aware of the fact that I am carrying someone else's precious cargo, and drive accordingly. If that means driving like a grandma by someone else's standards, so be it.

I've had one accident that was my fault, though it wasn't caused by a lack of attention, rather I could not see oncoming traffic on the busy road I was trying to cross as well as I should have been able to, due to parked cars. Lesson learned: I no longer use that intersection, and try to avoid others like it in this town, I've also taken to writing emails to the city's code compliance officer to make sure others don't get caught the way I did, be it by a parked car or an overgrown bush. But I am definitely more cautious now.

I don't drive much any more, except for work, mostly because I ride my bicycle everywhere--which is another activity that has made me more aware of how I drive and more cautious when doing so. However, I do wish more people were aware of the rules of the road. I see a number of drivers and bicyclists out there any more with little care for the rules of the road, and it disturbs me, because ignoring those rules leads to accidents, injuries, and death. Some of the violations I see most frequently are people using the bicycle lane as a right turn lane where there is no right turn lane, or nearly hook-turning into a bicyclist (I've had this happen to me, and I've nearly missed being doored), or people going around people making a left by using the shoulder (illegal in Oregon). All of these maneuvers put yourself and other people at risk, yet when I'm out driving, I see at least one of these things every time.

LoganSnake · 08-25-2008, 11:25 AM

No, I am not afraid of driving. I don't consider it to be any less safe than walking. Although I did have a couple of close calls, latest one involving me making a left turn on a green arrow and a tow truck running the red light about a foot from my front bumper doing no less than 40. That one puckered up my asshole good.

noodle · 08-25-2008, 11:28 AM

I, like Hal, am afraid of driving in NYC. And Boston.
And I was intimidated as heck for the first three days I was in San Francisco.
I am typically the designated driver because I have that magic switch many of my friends are lacking that makes me go... "hmm, I don't want to drink any more." Or at all.

I was in a major accident at age 17 when I was t-boned by some asshole in a 1979 gold BMW. I was cited because I pulled out of a parking lot across three lanes of traffic towards a center lane. I don't remember much. But apparently, I should have seen the man coming out from behind a black pickup truck while changing lanes. He said he was going the posted speed limit of 55mph. The guys who checked out the skid marks for my father (who is a mechanic) reported that he was going around 60 at impact after 100 feet of single skid marks and he then pushed my '79 Volare another 150 feet down the road, sideways. Slightly difficult to accomplish if one had slowed down from 55. There was no way to prove it because the accident report didn't concur. He tried to sue us because he had a sore neck, which I think was later proven to be malingering. I had a broken pelvis.

Yeah, I'm afraid of driving a lot of the time.
But my worries make me more vigilant the majority of the time.
And other than getting rear-ended at a stoplight (obviously not my fault), I've avoided a LOT of potential incidences over the next 15 years.

World's King · 08-25-2008, 11:28 AM

inBOIL · 08-25-2008, 01:03 PM

I'm dismayed that Damaa could have been convicted given the lack of convincing evidence. Still, I see drivers do amazingly stupid things every day. People need to stop worrying so much about hyped-up exotic threats and pay attention to the real dangers they face. Terrorism is not going to kill you; running a red light might.

Reese · 08-25-2008, 01:32 PM

I'm not comfortable driving cars at all. I have no trust for other drivers.

Vigilante · 08-25-2008, 01:33 PM

I am not afraid of driving, but I do stay hypervigilant on the road. I see things that are about to happen, things that happen behind me, both sides of me, how a driver I am approaching behaves, and when I pass (if they happen to stand out), what they were doing. I treat driving like I would if I was hunting on foot in africa. In other words, I watch everything, and anything that seems out of place makes me watch it more closely and prepare for a reaction. I wasn't always like that, but since I've been involved in 2 wrecks now, I watch much more closely. The first one was the worst, a 70+mph sideswipe from an old lady trying to pass a crowd at the last second, and the next one was just me, tire was low or flat on a rainy day and I slid out of control and nailed a pole.

My wife is not as observant, but she tries. She's given to multitasking in the car, like many women, and hits curbs and crap. Her big wreck was running a red light and t-boning a SUV. Fortunately no one was hurt.

Apex Shok · 08-25-2008, 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Halx

I'm afraid of driving in NYC. Haven't done it yet. Don't know if I will. Anywhere else, I am king of the road.

NYC was one of the few places I felt at home driving. NYC, San Fran, and LA. I love driving in these places as long as traffic is actually moving.

Charlatan · 08-25-2008, 02:13 PM

Though I probably should be, I am not afraid of driving. I've even driven in New York.

QuasiMondo · 08-25-2008, 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Halx

I'm afraid of driving in NYC. Haven't done it yet. Don't know if I will. Anywhere else, I am king of the road.

You're not king of the road until you conquer the city. Once you slay that beast you'll truly become a driver's driver.

Just remember, one foot on the gas, one foot on the brake, one hand on the horn, and one hand throwing the finger around!*

*Finger flipping is optional. Use with discretion.

Manic_Skafe · 08-25-2008, 02:47 PM

I'm not afraid but I certainly am cautious. I just find it oddly ironic that by ensuring my safety and the safety of those that ride with me, I often have to drive like an asshole.

Speeding so that I move with the traffic,aggressively changing lanes, shaking tailgaters and those who can't stay in their lane...

Not afraid but extremely defensive.

laconic1 · 08-25-2008, 03:35 PM

Driving is one of the few occasions where I am actually comfortable in what I am doing and confident in myself. I like to think I'm a good driver, I'm courteous to other drivers, I don't speed anymore, and I pay attention to what I'm doing. I like to think if everyone drove like me the roads would be a lot better place. I've never run into a driving situation I'm uncomfortable with. I have had two tickets in the last 13 years, one was a legit speeding ticket, the other one I was the victim of a bad cop having a bad day.

abaya · 08-25-2008, 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charlatan

Though I probably should be, I am not afraid of driving. I've even driven in New York.

Same here, on all points. I am a confident, almost aggressive driver, and I have been since I first got behind the wheel at age 15. I have never doubted my driving skills--a strength and a weakness. More than being a skilled driver, I have been just plain lucky.. there have been many close calls over the years, and definitely, there but for the grace of God (or physics) went I. As I wrap up my 20s, I think I've learned a lot about driving in a much more conservative way, and I believe I've grown into a much safer driver (for myself--since I was always quite safe when driving with passengers in the car, just not when I was alone) over the years. I still don't trust anyone else more than myself, to drive a car the way it should be driven.

Charlatan · 08-25-2008, 04:13 PM

One place I don't really want to drive is in Jakarta... NYC has nothing on Jakarta.

jorgelito · 08-25-2008, 05:31 PM

People in Los Angeles, and surrounding areas do no know how to drive. Literally. How they received their driver's licenses is a mystery. I was shocked to hear that the DMV is considering making the tests even easier as to accommodate illegal immigrants.

The people in Los Angeles are the most selfish, inconsiderate, fucked-up assholes on the planet. We desperately need a public transportation system here so that we can stop being a 3rd world city.

yellowmac · 08-25-2008, 06:50 PM

The time I was afraid of driving was after I was involved in a hit-and-run accident. Stupid kid ran a red light, hit me as I was crossing the intersection, then sped off. This genius got caught shortly after, as it happened in broad daylight at a relatively busy intersection. Idiot.

After that, I became afraid of driving through intersections for a short period. Would always be extra careful as I was crossing through. That lasted for a few months. Now I'm perfectly fine, totally unafraid of the road. I consider myself to be a pretty safe driver, I don't really speed and am usually fairly cautious.

I've never driven much in big cities ... I survived in NYC just fine the brief times I drove there, and LA I can handle too. I dunno, I guess I feel pretty confident about my driving abilities. Usually in a busy/sticky situation though, I *have* to either turn down the radio or ask anyone else in the car to shut up so that I can focus. I find that helps me a lot.

I will say, that the times I've visited Asia, I have no idea how I didn't die being a passenger in cars there. My god those drivers are nuts.

Fotzlid · 08-25-2008, 10:03 PM

I love to drive.
Cruising along a stretch of open road or just going with the flow of traffic. Its all good.
I spent many years driving in and out of Boston. I've driven in NYC and D.C. several times. It doesn't faze me in the least. If there is a group going somewhere, I am inevitably the driver, even if its someone elses vehicle.

I've been in several accidents over the years too. None were my fault. Got hit by a drunk once. Had a few run stop signs or red lights. Had one stop dead in the middle of the road as he was turning left, crossing my lane. He didn't see me and stopped dead in a panic. Totaled a few cars in the process, mine and theirs.

I still love to drive.

spindles · 08-25-2008, 10:27 PM

I'm not afraid of driving. I take it very seriously when I do it, especially with my family in the car.

I suspect that Australia is a little less litigious - I can't see anyone ending up in gaol, given the circumstances in the article posted (but I guess news stories only ever tell part of the story)...

abaya · 08-26-2008, 12:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charlatan

One place I don't really want to drive is in Jakarta... NYC has nothing on Jakarta.

Ha! Yeah, I don't drive in Beirut (or Bangkok, for that matter). Ktsp drives there, which is interesting because he dislikes driving in general... but in Beirut, he's much more qualified to drive than I am. There are no rules.

Xazy · 08-26-2008, 04:20 AM

Yeah NYC is really not that bad to drive in, I do it all the time. I do not think I am afraid of driving, but I drive with the philosophy that I am the only one on the road who knows how to drive. Also being from NYC I have learned to drive often with one hand over the horn.

My philosophy I find makes me a poor passenger so I try not to watch when I am not driving.

ngdawg · 08-26-2008, 04:37 AM

I love driving, it's other drivers I can't stand.

I just got back from driving to Bristol, TN-it was 10.5 hours going down and 11.75 hours cominghome(I stopped to take pictures along the way). Most of the time I don't even have the radio going-I drive in total silence and it's very relaxing to me, until I get in the vicinity of Allentown, PA-those people are nuts.

I've been long distance driving for about 8 years and regionally, there's a mental attitude on the road; I can tell with pretty good accuracy where someone is from before I see the license plate.

jewels · 08-26-2008, 04:54 AM

I'm one of those that learned the hard way.

I was overconfident, thinking myself a great driver and everyone else was an asshole.

I had an SUV at the time, heading to work after stopping for coffee and driving the quiet back streets downtown. It was a route I knew without thinking but, somehow, that morning my mind was elsewhere. I was driving along and recall looking to my left, suddenly spotting a car inches from my door. In that millisecond before impact, I looked ahead and realized I'd run the stop sign. The impact sent the SUV flying across, hitting the curb ahead, rolling over and spinning on the roof and after spinning down the block and hitting the opposite curb, landing on its "feet". State Farm bought me a brand new car; it was totalled.

I was lucky to have survived and even luckier that my daughters had declined on this "bring your kid to work day" three years ago. The impact hit closer to the back seat where the girls would have been and they would have been seriously injured, if they had survived the impact. This was one of those times I thought about God.

The two women in the other vehicle were fine.

I still consider myself a good driver. But I'm no longer cocky and don't take anything for granted. If I'm unable to focus, I pull over and take a deep breath or take a nap.

All it takes is one person who's not completely focused. One cocky, selfish, sleep-deprived driver can really spoil someone's day.

Now, I'm not scared but I'm wary. I've become a very defensive driver, looking for people like I was.

You don't have to be drunk or high to mess with others' lives.

canuckguy · 08-26-2008, 06:10 AM

Yes, I frankly don't trust anyone on the road. People have too many distractions and just don't focus on the task at hand. I don't want to become a statistic because someone was trying to call there girlfriend, eat a sandwich, play with there GPS or one of the other countless things people do while driving.

Not that I stay in house sheltering myself, just I am very aware of my surrounds and try to get the odds in my favour.

Lasereth · 08-26-2008, 09:53 AM

I am 100% comfortable driving and have been since day 1. I've never been in a car accident since I got my license (a few close calls of course). I am aggressive on the road, but not stupid. Sometimes aggressive drivers can prevent accidents or close calls because there's two passive drivers not willing to make up their minds.

canuckguy · 08-26-2008, 10:08 AM

Lasereth, knock some wood!

For years now I've wanted a motorcycle, drooling over websites, watching them as they zoom past my house but I can't bring myself to get one after years of watching terrible drivers. Just seems too risky.

I was downtown earlier when i was posting, and now I am home after riding my bike. Saw about 3 near accidents in a little less than 3km. Sure it was lunch hour traffic but wow people need to take a chill pill and just drive normally. Not aggressive, not passively just drive like the traffic laws intended.

I personally don't think our driving laws are not harsh enough in my area, the damage (potentially) you can do with a car should be reflected in our laws and who can have a license.

snowy · 08-26-2008, 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by canuckguy

I personally don't think our driving laws are not harsh enough in my area, the damage (potentially) you can do with a car should be reflected in our laws and who can have a license.

Here, I think the driving laws are fine, but I don't think there is enough enforcement. Budget cuts have cannibalized our law enforcement agencies here, and taken traffic cops off of the streets. I would like to see traffic cops returned to the streets, and I'd also like to see more bicycle cops to catch bicyclists who break traffic laws--an all too common occurrence in this college town.

I also don't think we test often enough. I just got my license renewed--for 8 years. By the time that's up I'll be 17 years past when I tested for my license, and according to Oregon law, unless I move to another state, I'll never have to test again. I think that both the knowledge and driver's tests should have to be renewed every 10 years or so, alongside the license.

Ayashe · 08-26-2008, 05:35 PM

I used to drive with very good confidence. Then I was hit by a car and that changed things dramatically for myself. I have been afraid to take the freeways ever since. I would much rather be in the passenger seat now.

The Faba · 08-26-2008, 06:06 PM

Before I got my license my friend and I got into an accident (he ran a stopsign - it was rainy and his windshield was dirty) Totalled two cars, some intense injuries. My experience with constant video games (watching everything all the time) and that accident combined into me being an exceedingly careful driver. For example on the freeway I'll watch oncoming traffic, traffic on overpasses, and the cars near me. I dislike driving on freeways not because of fear (although I have a small amount of it) but because I become exhausted from paying too much attention.

/Post

Destrox · 08-27-2008, 07:18 AM

Grew up in farm-town communities, occasionally drove to Cleveland or Pittsburgh.

Now living in Phoenix area I love it.

Except at rush hour. Thats not driving its just idle waiting. 5 lanes of traffic doing nothing. 109 degree heat.

MSD · 08-27-2008, 07:53 AM

The car in the picture looks like an early-'90s model. It should have a "black box" recorder that showed all control inputs and gauge readings for 15 seconds before the crash. Why wouldn't it be presented as evidence?

I've been getting more and more negative about driving over the past year, especially on the day that 6 people almost sideswiped me with improper lane changes and I had to swerve into the shoulder to avoid three of those. There are way too many cars on the road around here. At non-peak times, I still love it, although the growing number of unmarked non-standard cop cars is making it a hassle when it's safe to go faster than the idiotic 445 or 55 mph limit on highways.

I drove in NYC 4 times. Three were to Queens, and all three times Mapquest directed my to take an exit that was marked only by a 12x18" sign saying "Trucks Only." It took an extra half hour to find where I was going each time because of it. When I drove into Manhattan at 2 in the morning, I got where I was going fine because my passenger knew it fairly well, but detours on the way back threw us off and I swore never to drive in again as I drove over the Triborough bridge for the third time on the way back to CT.

abaya · 08-27-2008, 08:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MSD

although the growing number of unmarked non-standard cop cars is making it a hassle when it's safe to go faster than the idiotic 445 or 55 mph limit on highways.

Funny, in the US I always drove in areas where the max speeds were at least 60, sometimes 70... and I was usually driving at least 80mph, as a rule. I got impatient with the slow speeds, too.

But living in Iceland, the max is 45 or 55 (90 km/h is the highest)... and I've come to really appreciate it, actually. Not to mention it saves a SHITLOAD of gas by driving just a bit slower... no doubt about that. So I might be a convert to driving more conservative speeds in the US, we'll see.

MSD · 08-27-2008, 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by abaya

Funny, in the US I always drove in areas where the max speeds were at least 60, sometimes 70... and I was usually driving at least 80mph, as a rule. I got impatient with the slow speeds, too.

But living in Iceland, the max is 45 or 55 (90 km/h is the highest)... and I've come to really appreciate it, actually. Not to mention it saves a SHITLOAD of gas by driving just a bit slower... no doubt about that. So I might be a convert to driving more conservative speeds in the US, we'll see.

My car got 15mpg on a good day, so I wasn't concerned about dropping down to 12 with some fun driving. I would still be driving it a day or two per week now (plus to the train station other days) if the brakes worked. My next car will have a flashed ECU with performance and economy modes to solve that problem. Just 6 more months until I can think about buying.

08-25-2008, 11:08 AM	#2 (permalink)
Halx Please touch this. Owner/Admin Location: Manhattan	I'm afraid of driving in NYC. Haven't done it yet. Don't know if I will. Anywhere else, I am king of the road. __________________ You have found this post informative. -The Administrator [Don't Feed The Animals]

08-25-2008, 11:21 AM	#4 (permalink)
snowy Kick Ass Kunoichi Location: Oregon	Everyone who sits behind that wheel should do so with a little bit of fear; it helps to make one a more defensive and aware driver. Nobody wants to end up like the man in the article. Drivers who are overconfident in their abilities and assertive are dangerous, mostly because they don't see the road the way a defensive driver does. In my job, I am often tasked with transportation duties for small children. I am always very, very aware of the fact that I am carrying someone else's precious cargo, and drive accordingly. If that means driving like a grandma by someone else's standards, so be it. I've had one accident that was my fault, though it wasn't caused by a lack of attention, rather I could not see oncoming traffic on the busy road I was trying to cross as well as I should have been able to, due to parked cars. Lesson learned: I no longer use that intersection, and try to avoid others like it in this town, I've also taken to writing emails to the city's code compliance officer to make sure others don't get caught the way I did, be it by a parked car or an overgrown bush. But I am definitely more cautious now. I don't drive much any more, except for work, mostly because I ride my bicycle everywhere--which is another activity that has made me more aware of how I drive and more cautious when doing so. However, I do wish more people were aware of the rules of the road. I see a number of drivers and bicyclists out there any more with little care for the rules of the road, and it disturbs me, because ignoring those rules leads to accidents, injuries, and death. Some of the violations I see most frequently are people using the bicycle lane as a right turn lane where there is no right turn lane, or nearly hook-turning into a bicyclist (I've had this happen to me, and I've nearly missed being doored), or people going around people making a left by using the shoulder (illegal in Oregon). All of these maneuvers put yourself and other people at risk, yet when I'm out driving, I see at least one of these things every time. __________________ If I am not better, at least I am different. --Jean-Jacques Rousseau

08-25-2008, 11:25 AM	#5 (permalink)
LoganSnake We work alone Location: Cake Town	No, I am not afraid of driving. I don't consider it to be any less safe than walking. Although I did have a couple of close calls, latest one involving me making a left turn on a green arrow and a tow truck running the red light about a foot from my front bumper doing no less than 40. That one puckered up my asshole good. __________________ Maturity is knowing you were an idiot in the past. Wisdom is knowing that you'll be an idiot in the future. Common sense is knowing that you should try not to be an idiot now. - J. Jacques

08-25-2008, 11:28 AM	#7 (permalink)
World's King Here Location: Denver City Denver	__________________ heavy is the head that wears the crown

08-25-2008, 01:03 PM	#8 (permalink)
inBOIL I have eaten the slaw	I'm dismayed that Damaa could have been convicted given the lack of convincing evidence. Still, I see drivers do amazingly stupid things every day. People need to stop worrying so much about hyped-up exotic threats and pay attention to the real dangers they face. Terrorism is not going to kill you; running a red light might. __________________ And you believe Bush and the liberals and divorced parents and gays and blacks and the Christian right and fossil fuels and Xbox are all to blame, meanwhile you yourselves create an ad where your kid hits you in the head with a baseball and you don't understand the message that the problem is you.

08-25-2008, 11:12 AM	#3 (permalink)
Willravel ... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.	I've always taken it upon myself to be the designated driver, especially considering that I don't drink alcoholic beverages often. I also consider driving to be a very serious responsibility. The only accident I've been in was someone pulling out from a parking spot without looking and bumping my bumper. Regarding the above article, based on the information provided he's not guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.

08-25-2008, 01:32 PM	#9 (permalink)
Reese Delicious	I'm not comfortable driving cars at all. I have no trust for other drivers. __________________ “It is better to be rich and healthy than poor and sick” - Dave Barry

08-25-2008, 01:33 PM	#10 (permalink)
Vigilante Broken Arrow Location: US	I am not afraid of driving, but I do stay hypervigilant on the road. I see things that are about to happen, things that happen behind me, both sides of me, how a driver I am approaching behaves, and when I pass (if they happen to stand out), what they were doing. I treat driving like I would if I was hunting on foot in africa. In other words, I watch everything, and anything that seems out of place makes me watch it more closely and prepare for a reaction. I wasn't always like that, but since I've been involved in 2 wrecks now, I watch much more closely. The first one was the worst, a 70+mph sideswipe from an old lady trying to pass a crowd at the last second, and the next one was just me, tire was low or flat on a rainy day and I slid out of control and nailed a pole. My wife is not as observant, but she tries. She's given to multitasking in the car, like many women, and hits curbs and crap. Her big wreck was running a red light and t-boning a SUV. Fortunately no one was hurt. __________________ We contend that for a nation to try to tax itself into prosperity is like a man standing in a bucket and trying to lift himself up by the handle. -Winston Churchill

08-25-2008, 02:13 PM	#12 (permalink)
Charlatan Getting it. Super Moderator Location: Lion City	Though I probably should be, I am not afraid of driving. I've even driven in New York. __________________ "My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars." - Old Man Luedecke

08-25-2008, 02:47 PM	#14 (permalink)
Manic_Skafe More Than You Expect Location: Queens	I'm not afraid but I certainly am cautious. I just find it oddly ironic that by ensuring my safety and the safety of those that ride with me, I often have to drive like an asshole. Speeding so that I move with the traffic,aggressively changing lanes, shaking tailgaters and those who can't stay in their lane... Not afraid but extremely defensive. __________________ "Porn is a zoo of exotic animals that becomes boring upon ownership." -Nersesian

08-25-2008, 03:35 PM	#15 (permalink)
laconic1 Junkie	Driving is one of the few occasions where I am actually comfortable in what I am doing and confident in myself. I like to think I'm a good driver, I'm courteous to other drivers, I don't speed anymore, and I pay attention to what I'm doing. I like to think if everyone drove like me the roads would be a lot better place. I've never run into a driving situation I'm uncomfortable with. I have had two tickets in the last 13 years, one was a legit speeding ticket, the other one I was the victim of a bad cop having a bad day.

08-25-2008, 04:13 PM	#17 (permalink)
Charlatan Getting it. Super Moderator Location: Lion City	One place I don't really want to drive is in Jakarta... NYC has nothing on Jakarta. __________________ "My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars." - Old Man Luedecke

08-25-2008, 05:31 PM	#18 (permalink)
jorgelito All important elusive independent swing voter... Location: People's Republic of KKKalifornia	People in Los Angeles, and surrounding areas do no know how to drive. Literally. How they received their driver's licenses is a mystery. I was shocked to hear that the DMV is considering making the tests even easier as to accommodate illegal immigrants. The people in Los Angeles are the most selfish, inconsiderate, fucked-up assholes on the planet. We desperately need a public transportation system here so that we can stop being a 3rd world city. __________________ "The race is not always to the swift, nor battle to the strong, but to the one that endures to the end." "Demand more from yourself, more than anyone else could ever ask!" - My recruiter

08-25-2008, 06:50 PM	#19 (permalink)
yellowmac Insane Location: left coast	The time I was afraid of driving was after I was involved in a hit-and-run accident. Stupid kid ran a red light, hit me as I was crossing the intersection, then sped off. This genius got caught shortly after, as it happened in broad daylight at a relatively busy intersection. Idiot. After that, I became afraid of driving through intersections for a short period. Would always be extra careful as I was crossing through. That lasted for a few months. Now I'm perfectly fine, totally unafraid of the road. I consider myself to be a pretty safe driver, I don't really speed and am usually fairly cautious. I've never driven much in big cities ... I survived in NYC just fine the brief times I drove there, and LA I can handle too. I dunno, I guess I feel pretty confident about my driving abilities. Usually in a busy/sticky situation though, I have to either turn down the radio or ask anyone else in the car to shut up so that I can focus. I find that helps me a lot. I will say, that the times I've visited Asia, I have no idea how I didn't die being a passenger in cars there. My god those drivers are nuts.

08-25-2008, 10:03 PM	#20 (permalink)
Fotzlid Junkie Location: Greater Boston area	I love to drive. Cruising along a stretch of open road or just going with the flow of traffic. Its all good. I spent many years driving in and out of Boston. I've driven in NYC and D.C. several times. It doesn't faze me in the least. If there is a group going somewhere, I am inevitably the driver, even if its someone elses vehicle. I've been in several accidents over the years too. None were my fault. Got hit by a drunk once. Had a few run stop signs or red lights. Had one stop dead in the middle of the road as he was turning left, crossing my lane. He didn't see me and stopped dead in a panic. Totaled a few cars in the process, mine and theirs. I still love to drive.

08-25-2008, 10:27 PM	#21 (permalink)
spindles Mine is an evil laugh Location: Sydney, Australia	I'm not afraid of driving. I take it very seriously when I do it, especially with my family in the car. I suspect that Australia is a little less litigious - I can't see anyone ending up in gaol, given the circumstances in the article posted (but I guess news stories only ever tell part of the story)... __________________ who hid my keyboard's PANIC button?

08-26-2008, 04:20 AM	#23 (permalink)
Xazy People in masks cannot be trusted Location: NYC	Yeah NYC is really not that bad to drive in, I do it all the time. I do not think I am afraid of driving, but I drive with the philosophy that I am the only one on the road who knows how to drive. Also being from NYC I have learned to drive often with one hand over the horn. My philosophy I find makes me a poor passenger so I try not to watch when I am not driving.

08-26-2008, 04:37 AM	#24 (permalink)
ngdawg peekaboo Location: on the back, bitch	I love driving, it's other drivers I can't stand. I just got back from driving to Bristol, TN-it was 10.5 hours going down and 11.75 hours cominghome(I stopped to take pictures along the way). Most of the time I don't even have the radio going-I drive in total silence and it's very relaxing to me, until I get in the vicinity of Allentown, PA-those people are nuts. I've been long distance driving for about 8 years and regionally, there's a mental attitude on the road; I can tell with pretty good accuracy where someone is from before I see the license plate.

08-26-2008, 04:54 AM	#25 (permalink)
jewels Eponymous Location: Central Central Florida	I'm one of those that learned the hard way. I was overconfident, thinking myself a great driver and everyone else was an asshole. I had an SUV at the time, heading to work after stopping for coffee and driving the quiet back streets downtown. It was a route I knew without thinking but, somehow, that morning my mind was elsewhere. I was driving along and recall looking to my left, suddenly spotting a car inches from my door. In that millisecond before impact, I looked ahead and realized I'd run the stop sign. The impact sent the SUV flying across, hitting the curb ahead, rolling over and spinning on the roof and after spinning down the block and hitting the opposite curb, landing on its "feet". State Farm bought me a brand new car; it was totalled. I was lucky to have survived and even luckier that my daughters had declined on this "bring your kid to work day" three years ago. The impact hit closer to the back seat where the girls would have been and they would have been seriously injured, if they had survived the impact. This was one of those times I thought about God. The two women in the other vehicle were fine. I still consider myself a good driver. But I'm no longer cocky and don't take anything for granted. If I'm unable to focus, I pull over and take a deep breath or take a nap. All it takes is one person who's not completely focused. One cocky, selfish, sleep-deprived driver can really spoil someone's day. Now, I'm not scared but I'm wary. I've become a very defensive driver, looking for people like I was. You don't have to be drunk or high to mess with others' lives. __________________ We are always more anxious to be distinguished for a talent which we do not possess, than to be praised for the fifteen which we do possess. Mark Twain

08-26-2008, 06:10 AM	#26 (permalink)
canuckguy I read your emails. Location: earth	Yes, I frankly don't trust anyone on the road. People have too many distractions and just don't focus on the task at hand. I don't want to become a statistic because someone was trying to call there girlfriend, eat a sandwich, play with there GPS or one of the other countless things people do while driving. Not that I stay in house sheltering myself, just I am very aware of my surrounds and try to get the odds in my favour.

08-26-2008, 09:53 AM	#27 (permalink)
Lasereth Knight of the Old Republic Location: Winston-Salem, NC	I am 100% comfortable driving and have been since day 1. I've never been in a car accident since I got my license (a few close calls of course). I am aggressive on the road, but not stupid. Sometimes aggressive drivers can prevent accidents or close calls because there's two passive drivers not willing to make up their minds.

08-26-2008, 10:08 AM	#28 (permalink)
canuckguy I read your emails. Location: earth	Lasereth, knock some wood! For years now I've wanted a motorcycle, drooling over websites, watching them as they zoom past my house but I can't bring myself to get one after years of watching terrible drivers. Just seems too risky. I was downtown earlier when i was posting, and now I am home after riding my bike. Saw about 3 near accidents in a little less than 3km. Sure it was lunch hour traffic but wow people need to take a chill pill and just drive normally. Not aggressive, not passively just drive like the traffic laws intended. I personally don't think our driving laws are not harsh enough in my area, the damage (potentially) you can do with a car should be reflected in our laws and who can have a license.

08-26-2008, 05:35 PM	#30 (permalink)
Ayashe Psycho	I used to drive with very good confidence. Then I was hit by a car and that changed things dramatically for myself. I have been afraid to take the freeways ever since. I would much rather be in the passenger seat now.

08-26-2008, 06:06 PM	#31 (permalink)
The Faba Crazy	Before I got my license my friend and I got into an accident (he ran a stopsign - it was rainy and his windshield was dirty) Totalled two cars, some intense injuries. My experience with constant video games (watching everything all the time) and that accident combined into me being an exceedingly careful driver. For example on the freeway I'll watch oncoming traffic, traffic on overpasses, and the cars near me. I dislike driving on freeways not because of fear (although I have a small amount of it) but because I become exhausted from paying too much attention. /Post

08-27-2008, 07:18 AM	#32 (permalink)
Destrox Metal and Rock 4 Life Location: Phoenix	Grew up in farm-town communities, occasionally drove to Cleveland or Pittsburgh. Now living in Phoenix area I love it. Except at rush hour. Thats not driving its just idle waiting. 5 lanes of traffic doing nothing. 109 degree heat. __________________ You bore me.... next.

08-27-2008, 07:53 AM	#33 (permalink)
MSD The sky calls to us ... Super Moderator Location: CT	The car in the picture looks like an early-'90s model. It should have a "black box" recorder that showed all control inputs and gauge readings for 15 seconds before the crash. Why wouldn't it be presented as evidence? I've been getting more and more negative about driving over the past year, especially on the day that 6 people almost sideswiped me with improper lane changes and I had to swerve into the shoulder to avoid three of those. There are way too many cars on the road around here. At non-peak times, I still love it, although the growing number of unmarked non-standard cop cars is making it a hassle when it's safe to go faster than the idiotic 445 or 55 mph limit on highways. I drove in NYC 4 times. Three were to Queens, and all three times Mapquest directed my to take an exit that was marked only by a 12x18" sign saying "Trucks Only." It took an extra half hour to find where I was going each time because of it. When I drove into Manhattan at 2 in the morning, I got where I was going fine because my passenger knew it fairly well, but detours on the way back threw us off and I swore never to drive in again as I drove over the Triborough bridge for the third time on the way back to CT.