Texas Sodomy Law Struck Down - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

MSD · 06-26-2003, 09:21 AM

http://www.dfw.com/mld/dfw/6175557.htm

Quote:

Supreme Court strikes down Texas sodomy law
By Anne Gearan
Associated Press Writer

WASHINGTON - The Supreme Court struck down a ban on gay sex Thursday, ruling that the law was an unconstitutional violation of privacy.

The 6-3 ruling reverses course from a ruling 17 years ago that states could punish homosexuals for what such laws historically called deviant sex.

Laws forbidding homosexual sex, once universal, now are rare. Those on the books are rarely enforced but underpin other kinds of discrimination, lawyers for two Texas men had argued to the court.

The men "are entitled to respect for their private lives," Kennedy wrote.

"The state cannot demean their existence or control their destiny by making their private sexual conduct a crime," he said.

Justices John Paul Stevens, David Souter, Ruth Bader Ginsburg and Stephen Breyer agreed with Kennedy in full. Justice Sandra Day O'Connor agreed with the outcome of the case but not all of Kennedy's rationale.

Chief Justice William H. Rehnquist and Justices Antonin Scalia and Clarence Thomas dissented.

"The court has largely signed on to the so-called homosexual agenda," Scalia wrote for the three. He took the unusual step of reading his dissent from the bench.

"The court has taken sides in the culture war," Scalia said, adding that he has "nothing against homosexuals."

The two men at the heart of the case, John Geddes Lawrence and Tyron Garner, have retreated from public view. They were each fined $200 and spent a night in jail for the misdemeanor sex charge in 1998.

The case began when a neighbor with a grudge faked a distress call to police, telling them that a man was "going crazy" in Lawrence's apartment. Police went to the apartment, pushed open the door and found the two men having anal sex.

As recently as 1960, every state had an anti-sodomy law. In 37 states, the statutes have been repealed by lawmakers or blocked by state courts.

Of the 13 states with sodomy laws, four _ Texas, Kansas, Oklahoma and Missouri _ prohibit oral and anal sex between same-sex couples. The other nine ban consensual sodomy for everyone: Alabama, Florida, Idaho, Louisiana, Mississippi, North Carolina, South Carolina, Utah and Virginia.

Thursday's ruling apparently invalidates those laws as well.

The Supreme Court was widely criticized 17 years ago when it upheld an antisodomy law similar to Texas'. The ruling became a rallying point for gay activists.

Of the nine justices who ruled on the 1986 case, only three remain on the court. Rehnquist was in the majority in that case _ Bowers v. Hardwick _ as was O'Connor. Stevens dissented.

A long list of legal and medical groups joined gay rights and human rights supporters in backing the Texas men. Many friend-of-the-court briefs argued that times have changed since 1986, and that the court should catch up.

At the time of the court's earlier ruling, 24 states criminalized such behavior. States that have since repealed the laws include Georgia, where the 1986 case arose.

Texas defended its sodomy law as in keeping with the state's interest in protecting marriage and child-rearing. Homosexual sodomy, the state argued in legal papers, "has nothing to do with marriage or conception or parenthood and it is not on a par with these sacred choices."

The state had urged the court to draw a constitutional line "at the threshold of the marital bedroom."

Although Texas itself did not make the argument, some of the state's supporters told the justices in friend-of-the-court filings that invalidating sodomy laws could take the court down the path of allowing same-sex marriage.

The case is Lawrence v. Texas, 02-102.

About time. Maybe it will happen in other states. As for the part about taking the court down the path to allowing same-sex marriages, I'd be glad to see that, too.

dimbulb · 06-26-2003, 10:10 AM

Merged with identical post by hrdwareguy

Tektronic · 06-26-2003, 10:22 AM

nice, (im in Houston).

TwistedFate · 06-26-2003, 10:27 AM

Very interesting. I don't think I ever would have thought that people could actually get punished for practicing homosexualty. I don't know why I felt that way, in my state you can only have sex in the missionary position, in your bedroom, with the person you are married to. Anything else is against the law.

mtsgsd · 06-26-2003, 10:28 AM

I wonder what would happen if all level of the government did some house cleaning and struck all obsolete, nonsensical or more importantly unenforceable laws that are on their books now? The printing industry would be hurt pretty hard I bet.

dimbulb · 06-26-2003, 10:42 AM

I think these laws are there just in case the government needs something to pin onto you.

Oral sex without subsequent vaginal sex is technically illegal in my country. How they ever enforce that (which they don't, but they could...) is beyond me.

I have bad vibes regarding laws which are selectively enforced...

hiredgun · 06-26-2003, 11:27 AM

Merged with another thread of the same type by hrdwareguy

Conclamo Ludus · 06-26-2003, 11:32 AM

If they're consenting adults, the government shouldn't be in the bedroom.

Daval · 06-26-2003, 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Conclamo Ludus
If they're consenting adults, the government shouldn't be in the bedroom.

I agree 100%

Lebell · 06-26-2003, 11:52 AM

I'm glad that the SCOTUS finally decided to weigh in on this issue, although I'm somewhat shocked that it wasn't even more lop-sided.

I don't see how some people want a smaller, less intrusive government, but have no problem with it sticking it's collective nose into the bedroom of consenting adults.

The_Dude · 06-26-2003, 11:55 AM

i wouldnt be surprised if ashcroft decides to add sodomy to the patriot act

anyway, i cant belive those 3 idiots voted against it.

"The court has largely signed on to the so-called homosexual agenda," - omfg!

i really wanna know what rehnquest had to say about htis, anyone find his brief?

The_Dude · 06-26-2003, 11:58 AM

also a post on this on the politics board, anyone wanna merge these?

JStrider · 06-26-2003, 01:09 PM

well i think its a good thing... stop discrimination... and get the government that much more out of our lives...

now we just need to see if texas will get rid of its sex toy laws

Charlatan · 06-26-2003, 01:31 PM

So the law used to just prohibit Same sex anal sex?

Does that mean that straight couples having anal sex are Ok then?

What about Two women with a strap-on having anal penetration?

Sounds to me like it was about bloody time the law was struck down.

RaGe2012 · 06-26-2003, 02:04 PM

The Supreme Court today ruled that the sodomy laws (read as "anti-homosexual legislation") in Texas be repealed. Prior to this, homosexuals were basically treated as criminals. Its funny to watch a bunch of bible-thumping moronic Texans on TV calling the ruling a religious slap in the face. Since when did homosexuality have anything to do with Christianity? There's nothing in the bible that says anything remotely close to homosexuality being wrong.

My personal opinion on this whole thing is that I feel gays should have the same rights as anyone else. They are Americans too (and are free to do as they please, so long as they do nothing to harm me). They aren't a threat to anyone.

To make a long story short...GOOD. More Civil Rights to a long oppressed group.

The_Dude · 06-26-2003, 02:04 PM

straight couples having anal sex as ok in texas, BUT it was illegal in some other states till this verdict.

The_Dude · 06-26-2003, 02:05 PM

there are a couple of threads about this floating around

Vyk · 06-26-2003, 02:51 PM

I'm glad the law was struck down. I'm a heterosexual male so it doesn't affect me but I take serious umbrage to the government trying to decide what goes on in the bedroom between consenting adults.

clockworkgreen · 06-26-2003, 03:26 PM

Agreed. Leave it in the ring. The refs don't have any say about it, even if Cletus doesn't mind getting the shaft.

G_Whiz · 06-26-2003, 03:43 PM

Just to add another layer to the discussion, it is my understanding that the definition of sodomy in the Texas law included anal and ORAL sex. So it is possible for two females to have committed sodomy without strap-ons.

It is really interesting to hear the conservatives argue for less government intrusion into peoples lives, except in the bedroom.

gibber71 · 06-26-2003, 05:39 PM

I read this article and laughed about the 'other' 9 states where sodomy regarding everyone is illegal. And what century are we in? The 19th,..20th,..oh that's right,.. the 21st.

HamiC · 06-26-2003, 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by G_Whiz
It is really interesting to hear the conservatives argue for less government intrusion into peoples lives, except in the bedroom.

Great point.

The_Dude · 06-26-2003, 07:02 PM

bah, nobody is gonna stand up for the law? there's GOT to be a neocon here that will do this

XenuHubbard · 06-26-2003, 09:37 PM

This kind of got me thinking about the song the fox sings in "Meet the Feebles".

Slims · 06-27-2003, 12:14 AM

I think it means that our society is in fact, moving in the right direction....where you can do whatever you want to provided that you don't hurt anyone else (who doesn't want to be).

Also, I think this ruling also in effect, gets rid of those silly laws that make pre marital sex between heterosexual couples illegal.

YourNeverThere · 06-27-2003, 12:19 AM

im not going to stand up for it, i think its a good idea to strick it, how can the state decide who does what?

Sparhawk · 06-27-2003, 05:57 AM

Consensual sex is consensual sex is consensual sex. I don't care where you put it *grin*

Merged by hrdwareguy

Conclamo Ludus · 06-27-2003, 06:21 AM

The government shouldn't be hanging out in your bedroom. Consenting adults can do whatever they want to eachother.

I don't know how the government could ever ban sodomy. They sodomize all of us during tax season.

The_Dude · 06-27-2003, 07:07 AM

there's a post about this on gen discussion

manalone · 06-27-2003, 08:55 AM

excellent. One more step on the way to total implementation of the Evil Plan, headed from the HOMOSEXUAL AGENDA! MuHaHaHa!

For those that don't know, this vile scheme includes:
* letting two people who are in love express their act as they see fit (gasp)
* gaining acceptance and privacy in their most personal of relationships (more gasps, women swoon)

Pretty maniacal, huh?

Bobaphat · 06-27-2003, 02:54 PM

So how does everyone feel about this one? Quite frankly, I can hardly believe that any of these laws are still on the books and that they even deserve 3 seconds of the Supreme Courts time. Just goes to show there are still some back-asswords places in this country.

rogue49 · 06-27-2003, 03:03 PM

The government need to get it's head out of the bedrooms of citizens,
and back into the audit books.

I don't give a shit what someone is doing in their personal life,
I want to know where the fuck my money is going.

The_Dude · 06-27-2003, 03:03 PM

there's a discussion in gen disc

***cynthetiq*** merged with GD thread.

james t kirk · 06-28-2003, 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by rogue49
The government need to get it's head out of the bedrooms of citizens,
and back into the audit books.

I don't give a shit what someone is doing in their personal life,
I want to know where the fuck my money is going.

EXACTLY

MacGnG · 06-28-2003, 01:15 PM

gotta agree with rogue

there are so many old laws that are ridiculous, they need to spend so time just taking out all the old laws. like u can't spit on the sidewalk and buying alcohol on sundays

bermuDa · 06-28-2003, 06:58 PM

good to see the government "pulling out" of private affairs

06-26-2003, 10:10 AM	#2 (permalink)
dimbulb Riiiiight........	Texas Sodomy Law Struck Down Merged with identical post by hrdwareguy Last edited by hrdwareguy; 06-26-2003 at 11:31 AM..

06-26-2003, 10:27 AM	#4 (permalink)
TwistedFate Crazy	Very interesting. I don't think I ever would have thought that people could actually get punished for practicing homosexualty. I don't know why I felt that way, in my state you can only have sex in the missionary position, in your bedroom, with the person you are married to. Anything else is against the law. __________________ If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.

06-26-2003, 11:27 AM	#7 (permalink)
hiredgun Addict	Supreme Court strikes down Texas sodomy law Merged with another thread of the same type by hrdwareguy Last edited by hrdwareguy; 06-26-2003 at 12:02 PM..

06-26-2003, 11:32 AM	#8 (permalink)
Conclamo Ludus Modern Man Location: West Michigan	If they're consenting adults, the government shouldn't be in the bedroom. __________________ Lord, have mercy on my wicked soul I wouldn't mistreat you baby, for my weight in gold. -Son House, Death Letter Blues

06-26-2003, 11:52 AM	#10 (permalink)
Lebell Cracking the Whip Location: Sexymama's arms...	I'm glad that the SCOTUS finally decided to weigh in on this issue, although I'm somewhat shocked that it wasn't even more lop-sided. I don't see how some people want a smaller, less intrusive government, but have no problem with it sticking it's collective nose into the bedroom of consenting adults. __________________ "Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." – C. S. Lewis The ONLY sponsors we have are YOU! Please Donate! Last edited by Lebell; 06-26-2003 at 12:17 PM..

06-26-2003, 10:22 AM	#3 (permalink)
Tektronic Upright Location: Houston	nice, (im in Houston).

06-26-2003, 10:28 AM	#5 (permalink)
mtsgsd Addict Location: Wisconsin, USA	I wonder what would happen if all level of the government did some house cleaning and struck all obsolete, nonsensical or more importantly unenforceable laws that are on their books now? The printing industry would be hurt pretty hard I bet.

06-26-2003, 10:42 AM	#6 (permalink)
dimbulb Riiiiight........	I think these laws are there just in case the government needs something to pin onto you. Oral sex without subsequent vaginal sex is technically illegal in my country. How they ever enforce that (which they don't, but they could...) is beyond me. I have bad vibes regarding laws which are selectively enforced...

06-26-2003, 11:55 AM	#11 (permalink)
The_Dude The GrandDaddy of them all! Location: Austin, TX	i wouldnt be surprised if ashcroft decides to add sodomy to the patriot act anyway, i cant belive those 3 idiots voted against it. "The court has largely signed on to the so-called homosexual agenda," - omfg! i really wanna know what rehnquest had to say about htis, anyone find his brief? __________________ "Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity." - Darrel K Royal

06-26-2003, 11:58 AM	#12 (permalink)
The_Dude The GrandDaddy of them all! Location: Austin, TX	also a post on this on the politics board, anyone wanna merge these? __________________ "Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity." - Darrel K Royal

06-26-2003, 01:09 PM	#13 (permalink)
JStrider Poo-tee-weet? Location: The Woodlands, TX	well i think its a good thing... stop discrimination... and get the government that much more out of our lives... now we just need to see if texas will get rid of its sex toy laws __________________ -=JStrider=- ~Clatto Verata Nicto

06-26-2003, 01:31 PM	#14 (permalink)
Charlatan Getting it. Super Moderator Location: Lion City	So the law used to just prohibit Same sex anal sex? Does that mean that straight couples having anal sex are Ok then? What about Two women with a strap-on having anal penetration? Sounds to me like it was about bloody time the law was struck down. __________________ "My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars." - Old Man Luedecke

06-26-2003, 02:04 PM	#15 (permalink)
RaGe2012 Upright Location: New Jersey	Supreme Court Texas Sodomy Ruling The Supreme Court today ruled that the sodomy laws (read as "anti-homosexual legislation") in Texas be repealed. Prior to this, homosexuals were basically treated as criminals. Its funny to watch a bunch of bible-thumping moronic Texans on TV calling the ruling a religious slap in the face. Since when did homosexuality have anything to do with Christianity? There's nothing in the bible that says anything remotely close to homosexuality being wrong. My personal opinion on this whole thing is that I feel gays should have the same rights as anyone else. They are Americans too (and are free to do as they please, so long as they do nothing to harm me). They aren't a threat to anyone. To make a long story short...GOOD. More Civil Rights to a long oppressed group. __________________ "Yesterday we bowed our heads to kings and bent our necks to emperors. But today we kneel only to truth..." - Kahlil Gibran

06-26-2003, 02:04 PM	#16 (permalink)
The_Dude The GrandDaddy of them all! Location: Austin, TX	straight couples having anal sex as ok in texas, BUT it was illegal in some other states till this verdict. __________________ "Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity." - Darrel K Royal

06-26-2003, 02:05 PM	#17 (permalink)
The_Dude The GrandDaddy of them all! Location: Austin, TX	there are a couple of threads about this floating around __________________ "Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity." - Darrel K Royal

06-26-2003, 02:51 PM	#18 (permalink)
Vyk Insane Location: Dayton, Ohio	I'm glad the law was struck down. I'm a heterosexual male so it doesn't affect me but I take serious umbrage to the government trying to decide what goes on in the bedroom between consenting adults. __________________ "Courage of the heart is very rare"

06-26-2003, 03:26 PM	#19 (permalink)
clockworkgreen Psycho Location: DC	Agreed. Leave it in the ring. The refs don't have any say about it, even if Cletus doesn't mind getting the shaft.

06-26-2003, 03:43 PM	#20 (permalink)
G_Whiz Junkie Location: Northern California	Just to add another layer to the discussion, it is my understanding that the definition of sodomy in the Texas law included anal and ORAL sex. So it is possible for two females to have committed sodomy without strap-ons. It is really interesting to hear the conservatives argue for less government intrusion into peoples lives, except in the bedroom. __________________ If love is blind, why is lingerie so popular?

06-26-2003, 05:39 PM	#21 (permalink)
gibber71 Loser	I read this article and laughed about the 'other' 9 states where sodomy regarding everyone is illegal. And what century are we in? The 19th,..20th,..oh that's right,.. the 21st.

06-26-2003, 07:02 PM	#23 (permalink)
The_Dude The GrandDaddy of them all! Location: Austin, TX	bah, nobody is gonna stand up for the law? there's GOT to be a neocon here that will do this __________________ "Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity." - Darrel K Royal

06-26-2003, 09:37 PM	#24 (permalink)
XenuHubbard Cute and Cuddly Location: Teegeeack.	This kind of got me thinking about the song the fox sings in "Meet the Feebles". __________________ The above was written by a true prophet. Trust me. "What doesn't kill you, makes you bitter and paranoid". - SB2000

06-27-2003, 12:14 AM	#25 (permalink)
Slims Eccentric insomniac Location: North Carolina	I think it means that our society is in fact, moving in the right direction....where you can do whatever you want to provided that you don't hurt anyone else (who doesn't want to be). Also, I think this ruling also in effect, gets rid of those silly laws that make pre marital sex between heterosexual couples illegal. __________________ "Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." - Winston Churchill "All men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act out their dream with open eyes, to make it possible." Seven Pillars of Wisdom, T.E. Lawrence

06-27-2003, 12:19 AM	#26 (permalink)
YourNeverThere Practical Anarchist Location: Yesterday i woke up stuck in hollywood	im not going to stand up for it, i think its a good idea to strick it, how can the state decide who does what? __________________ The Above post is a direct quote from Shakespeare

06-27-2003, 05:57 AM	#27 (permalink)
Sparhawk Dubya Location: VA	Court overturns Sodomy ban Consensual sex is consensual sex is consensual sex. I don't care where you put it grin Merged by hrdwareguy __________________ "In Iraq, no doubt about it, it's tough. It's hard work. It's incredibly hard. It's - and it's hard work. I understand how hard it is. I get the casualty reports every day. I see on the TV screens how hard it is. But it's necessary work. We're making progress. It is hard work." Last edited by hrdwareguy; 06-27-2003 at 07:45 AM..

06-27-2003, 06:21 AM	#28 (permalink)
Conclamo Ludus Modern Man Location: West Michigan	The government shouldn't be hanging out in your bedroom. Consenting adults can do whatever they want to eachother. I don't know how the government could ever ban sodomy. They sodomize all of us during tax season. __________________ Lord, have mercy on my wicked soul I wouldn't mistreat you baby, for my weight in gold. -Son House, Death Letter Blues

06-27-2003, 07:07 AM	#29 (permalink)
The_Dude The GrandDaddy of them all! Location: Austin, TX	there's a post about this on gen discussion __________________ "Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity." - Darrel K Royal

06-27-2003, 08:55 AM	#30 (permalink)
manalone Once upon a time...	excellent. One more step on the way to total implementation of the Evil Plan, headed from the HOMOSEXUAL AGENDA! MuHaHaHa! For those that don't know, this vile scheme includes: * letting two people who are in love express their act as they see fit (gasp) * gaining acceptance and privacy in their most personal of relationships (more gasps, women swoon) Pretty maniacal, huh? __________________ -- Man Alone ======= Abstainer: a weak person who yields to the temptation of denying himself a pleasure. Ambrose Bierce, The Devil's Dictionary.

06-27-2003, 02:54 PM	#31 (permalink)
Bobaphat whoopity doo Location: Seattle	Supreme Court Sodomy Ruling So how does everyone feel about this one? Quite frankly, I can hardly believe that any of these laws are still on the books and that they even deserve 3 seconds of the Supreme Courts time. Just goes to show there are still some back-asswords places in this country. __________________ --size matters not-- yoda

06-27-2003, 03:03 PM	#32 (permalink)
rogue49 Loser	The government need to get it's head out of the bedrooms of citizens, and back into the audit books. I don't give a shit what someone is doing in their personal life, I want to know where the fuck my money is going.

06-27-2003, 03:03 PM	#33 (permalink)
The_Dude The GrandDaddy of them all! Location: Austin, TX	there's a discussion in gen disc *cynthetiq* merged with GD thread. __________________ "Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity." - Darrel K Royal Last edited by Cynthetiq; 06-27-2003 at 03:25 PM..

06-28-2003, 01:15 PM	#35 (permalink)
MacGnG Know Where!	gotta agree with rogue there are so many old laws that are ridiculous, they need to spend so time just taking out all the old laws. like u can't spit on the sidewalk and buying alcohol on sundays

06-28-2003, 06:58 PM	#36 (permalink)
bermuDa don't ignore this--> Location: CA	good to see the government "pulling out" of private affairs __________________ I am the very model of a moderator gentleman.