How do you feel about this MADD Hoax? - Page 2 - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Jinn · 06-05-2008, 01:55 PM

There are a lot of things where I can abide white lies, but the death of someone you care for is not one of those things. I'd cease communication with any 'friend' or acquaintance who thought they could fool me in such a way.

Unfortunately for these children, they have no way of ceasing communication with the faculty of their school. Though I don't think a "mental anguish" type of suit would hold any type of merit, this is a very unethical thing to do, if not
illegal.

Even if it does 'teach' children not to drink and drive, it also secondarily teaches them that it's OK to lie when you're trying to prove a point.

Frosstbyte · 06-05-2008, 02:17 PM

Well, in the abstract this could be a case for intentional infliction of emotional distress if any of the kids could show some sort of actual trauma beyond merely "I was upset before they told me." The catch is that the jury would have to think that the conduct was outrageous and reckless with regards to the feelings of those involved. Given the link to trying to teach kids about drunk driving, I think you'd have a hard time seating a jury who would see it that way.

The Faba · 06-05-2008, 03:29 PM

I beleive (yes, with the school year over I can now be more than a lurker!) that MADD is one of the most corrupted organizations in existance... not evil, just completely different than what they started out as.

This is nothing more than a shock scheme determined to scare kids into not being retarded.

I agree with this. There are way too many things and people in this world that tell people that if you make any kind of mistake 'It's okay.' and 'Don't do it again.' (I'm from Minnesota, one of the most liberal states in the nation - I saw this al the time while in school) This rhetoric leads people, especially children, into thinking that they can do anything and the consequences won't be all that dire.

Unfortunately, this is not the case. After being exposed to small punishments, slaps on the wrist, and Don't-do-it-agains for their entire 7 years of Middle and High school-itude, 14 of my graduating class of 360 are dead from drug overdoses, drunk driving, and suicides... (frequency in that order with 2 suicides) I remember one person who just died a few months ago... I knew him since second grade and he was a loser the entire time. He was arrested for possesion about 5 times through high school and once for MIC. Turns out he died of a drug overdose. In his friends written eulogy, under their favorite activities together, was 'poking smot'.

Maybe if someone bothered to shock him he wouldn't have been all that worthless.

To further my digression, my future roommate was t-boned going through an intersection in Kansas City last week. She was hit by a 17 year old high schooler who was drunk and stoned, and didn't notice the light was red. Turns out that person had a sober passenger in the car. If they had been shocked by a school, maybe Sophia wouldn't need to pay her hospital bills or her extra insurance.

So back to my main point. I approve this system. I'd rather have 100,000 high school kids get minorly scarred in one afternoon and learn it was a hoax than have one of them on the road threatening my, or my girlfriends, or my family's lives.

Fuck their 'mental anguish', at least they're still alive to bitch about it.

*edit, t-boned, not tboned

uncle phil · 06-05-2008, 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Faba

Fuck their 'mental anguish', at least they're still alive to bitch about it.

i agree...

MSD · 06-05-2008, 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Faba

So back to my main point. I approve this system. I'd rather have 100,000 high school kids get minorly scarred in one afternoon and learn it was a hoax than have one of them on the road threatening my, or my girlfriends, or my family's lives.

Fuck their 'mental anguish', at least they're still alive to bitch about it.

I was a high school kid only 6 years ago. The program didn't scar me or teach me anything other than the value of helping out those in charge to avoid other duties. The only real trauma and mental scarring from that year was my friend who lapsed into an episode of depressive psychosis and hung himself. That also scratched off the yearly tradition of having a fake accident and hearse in the courtyard right before prom.

A few people who were involved in "whit-out" day got the point; at that time we were mostly straight edge kids (yes, I was sXe before it was cool) who agreed with the anti-drinking message. The rest of the school just screamed "feaks!" at me (the reaper) and the "victims" who painted their faces white and ignored us.

sapiens · 06-06-2008, 05:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Faba

Fuck their 'mental anguish', at least they're still alive to bitch about it.

Again, we don't have evidence that the program even works better than other programs. From what I recall from studies I have read, fear appeals may shock, but they don't necessarily change behavior. Why waste the time/resources and deceive kids about the deaths of their friends if it doesn't help them?

More generally, I'm interested in whether or not a school should spend a lot of time focusing on topics like this. Seems like our school systems have enough trouble teaching students, why reduce the amount of time devoted to classes? Should we include similar "fear appeal" programs for other social issues (e.g. obesity, safe sex, racism, sexism, homophobia...)?

FoolThemAll · 06-06-2008, 09:56 AM

"Whoa, that was one SHOCKING lie. We'd better believe what they say!"

UKking · 06-13-2008, 11:23 AM

Quote:

School defends drunken driving hoax

OCEANSIDE, California (AP) -- On a Monday morning last month, highway patrol officers visited 20 classrooms at El Camino High School to announce some horrible news: Several students had been killed in car wrecks over the weekend.

Classmates wept. Some became hysterical.

A few hours and many tears later, though, the pain turned to fury when the teenagers learned that it was all a hoax, a scared-straight exercise designed by school officials to dramatize the consequences of drinking and driving.

As seniors prepare for graduation parties Friday, school officials in the largely prosperous San Diego, California, suburb are defending themselves against allegations that they went too far.

At school assemblies, some students held posters that read, "Death is real. Don't play with our emotions."

Michelle de Gracia, 16, was in physics class when an officer announced that her missing classmate David, a popular basketball player, had died instantly after being rear-ended by a drunken driver. She said she felt nauseated but was too stunned to cry.

"They got the shock they wanted," she said.

Some of her classmates became extremely upset, prompting the teacher to tell them immediately that it was all staged.

"People started yelling at the teacher," she said. "It was pretty hectic."

Others, including many who heard the news of the 26 deaths between classes, were left in the dark until the missing students reappeared hours later.

"You feel betrayed by your teachers and administrators, these people you trust," said 15-year-old Carolyn Magos. "But then I felt selfish for feeling that way, because, I mean, if it saves one life, it's worth it."

Officials at the 3,100-student school defended the program.

"They were traumatized, but we wanted them to be traumatized," said guidance counselor Lori Tauber, who helped organize the shocking exercise and got dozens of students to participate. "That's how they get the message."

The plan was to tell the truth to the students at an assembly later in the day. But word that it was all a hoax began to spread before the gathering. Tauber said some counselors and administrators revealed the truth to calm some students who had become upset.

Oceanside Schools Superintendent Larry Perondi said he fielded only a few calls from parents, and the PTA chapter said it had not heard any complaints. Perondi said the program would be revised, but he would not say how. And he said he was glad that students seemed to have gotten the message.

"We did this in earnest," he said. "This was not done to be a prankster."

QuasiMondo · 06-13-2008, 02:50 PM

They did something similar to this back when I was in high school, except the 'dead' had their faces painted in white and we weren't allowed to acknowledge their presence. I guess the white face paint was to indicate they were ghosts, but it didn't have the same effect.

But having the cops come in and tell the kids their classmate was dead? Priceless. And more effective than the chick that had her face burned off a drunk driver slammed into her car on her prom night making it burst into flames and killing her boyfriend. All that did was give people nightmares and made them feel sorry for her. I give this one an A+.

I'm pretty sure two or three years from now when they're binge drinking one of them will say, "dude, remember that time the cops came into the classroom and told us you were like, dead?"

sodom1965 · 08-13-2008, 07:01 AM

After loosing my 18 year old son to a repeat offender drunk driver and loosing two more of his classmates with six months of each other due to alcohol related accidents I don't think anything is too much to get the attention of our children. We all know as teens and even adults things like that don't happen to us they happen to other people but if it makes them realize it can happen to them then maybe they will think twice before being so careless with their lives and the lives of others. They will get over this hoax a lot quicker than their family could ever get over loosing them. Sometimes we have to use the SHOCK factor to get their attention. I strongly recommend this for all high schools! Thanks MADD for all you do!

Xazy · 08-13-2008, 07:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sodom1965

After loosing my 18 year old son to a repeat offender drunk driver and loosing two more of his classmates with six months of each other due to alcohol related accidents I don't think anything is too much to get the attention of our children. We all know as teens and even adults things like that don't happen to us they happen to other people but if it makes them realize it can happen to them then maybe they will think twice before being so careless with their lives and the lives of others. They will get over this hoax a lot quicker than their family could ever get over loosing them. Sometimes we have to use the SHOCK factor to get their attention. I strongly recommend this for all high schools! Thanks MADD for all you do!

I am pro stronger drinking and driving penalties (financial and criminal) and enforcement. I am pro-MADD for most things they do. But the emotional damage from this hoax is to me crossing a line. Staging for them an accident, good, showing the damage good, showing them pictures of other students who have died (with permission from their family) is ok, but lying about a classmates death is a line that is to me to much.

LoganSnake · 08-13-2008, 07:15 AM

Man, people LOVE to overreact. Everybody's safe and sound...jeez.

Poppinjay · 08-13-2008, 07:16 AM

I wish I could rent Red Pavement or Blood On The Highway, with MST3K treatment.

LoganSnake · 08-13-2008, 07:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xazy

I am pro stronger drinking and driving penalties (financial and criminal) and enforcement. I am pro-MADD for most things they do. But the emotional damage from this hoax is to me crossing a line. Staging for them an accident, good, showing the damage good, showing them pictures of other students who have died (with permission from their family) is ok, but lying about a classmates death is a line that is to me to much.

Sure, but next time there's a chance that the students will remember how they felt when they found out that their classmates were killed in drunk accidents and think twice before drinking and driving or not allow their drunk friends to drive.

Xazy · 08-13-2008, 08:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LoganSnake

Sure, but next time there's a chance that the students will remember how they felt when they found out that their classmates were killed in drunk accidents and think twice before drinking and driving or not allow their drunk friends to drive.

True, but a parent should still teach their child, the teacher should still teach the child, some lines should not be crossed. What about if a child was in the auditorium whose parent was killed by a drunk driver, or an uncle, or someone else. What about their rights for the potential emotional damage. If a parent felt it was ok for their child to be hoaxed I can not fully agree with it but then at least there is someone who knows their child intimately who says it is ok, but for a school to just do it to everyone not taking in every child case by case basis sorry it is wrong.

As I said showing the damage explaining the damage, talking about kids killed I can understand, but to put that emotional (psychological) stress to a whole school like that is just wrong.

LoganSnake · 08-13-2008, 08:54 AM

A parent can teach a child that the stove is hot until they're blue in the face. Only after the child burns himself does he understand that it is in fact hot.

Sure, older/adult persons have a better understand of warning, but actual experience really stays with you. Much more than anything you've been taught by parents or teachers.

levite · 08-13-2008, 09:12 AM

I think what MADD did was sick. I don't care what you're trying to educate kids about, you don't make them believe their friend is dead, and then go, "Psych! Just kidding! Don't drink and drive!" That is just cruel and abhorrent.

I teach high school, I know how resistant kids can be at that age. I agree that sometimes you have to go the extra mile to shock their complacency.

Having an assembly where they get to meet kids paralyzed and otherwise crippled by drunk driving? A good idea.
Displaying the wreck of a car driven drunk and crashed? A good idea.
Showing them gory pictures or movies of drunk driving crashes? A good idea.

Emotionally abusive psychological manipulation? Really unacceptable.

LoganSnake · 08-13-2008, 09:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by levite

I think what MADD did was sick. I don't care what you're trying to educate kids about, you don't make them believe their friend is dead, and then go, "Psych! Just kidding! Don't drink and drive!" That is just cruel and abhorrent.

I teach high school, I know how resistant kids can be at that age. I agree that sometimes you have to go the extra mile to shock their complacency.

Having an assembly where they get to meet kids paralyzed and otherwise crippled by drunk driving? A good idea.
Displaying the wreck of a car driven drunk and crashed? A good idea.
Showing them gory pictures or movies of drunk driving crashes? A good idea.

Emotionally abusive psychological manipulation? Really unacceptable.

All of the above can be filed under "this will not happen to me" category. Actually experiencing the emotion tied with the result of drunk driving is a much more powerful tool.

Cynthetiq · 08-13-2008, 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LoganSnake

All of the above can be filed under "this will not happen to me" category. Actually experiencing the emotion tied with the result of drunk driving is a much more powerful tool.

Agreed.

I didn't have anyone in our school involved in drunk driving fatalities during my tenure there.

Having a neighbor hit by a drunk driver which made her have major hospitalization and recovery.
Having a friend decapitated and 3 others killed in Malaysia as they were drinking and driving around the Malay penninsula on winter break.

These real events were more shocking than anything else I had been told or read about. The other things, are much more "It won't happen to me."

Xazy · 08-13-2008, 10:08 AM

While you may think it may help 98% of the kids what about the other kids that it may psychologically harm. I feel there are other methods of educating children and some lines that are just wrong.

And Cynthetiq while you and I agree krav maga is the right way to learn how to defend yourself, where you actually go through being choked to learn how to defend yourself it may not be the right way for everyone to learn. Here there is perhaps real psychological damage not being choked in a controlled environment.

LoganSnake · 08-13-2008, 10:16 AM

Throughout my 4 year high school career, I have been through 4 annual Drinking and Driving awareness assemblies complete with lots of fake blood, pictures of smashed cars and speeches from people who knew people who got into an accident. Have they had any effect on me? None. In fact, I found them amusing. It just doesn't work for the most part.

Know what hit home? When my friend opened up the day with a speech over PA system saying goodbye to four of her close friends (my acquaintances) who have died over the weekend (it was Monday morning) in a car crash. Drunken car crash where the driver deemed it to be a good idea to take an off ramp at 120 miles per hour. No survivors.

Cynthetiq · 08-13-2008, 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xazy

While you may think it may help 98% of the kids what about the other kids that it may psychologically harm. I feel there are other methods of educating children and some lines that are just wrong.

And Cynthetiq while you and I agree krav maga is the right way to learn how to defend yourself, where you actually go through being choked to learn how to defend yourself it may not be the right way for everyone to learn. Here there is perhaps real psychological damage not being choked in a controlled environment.

It isn't. I never claimed it was. If it helps more of the 98% I'm all for it. If the 2% have emotional difficulties from such a thing, there are IMO deeper underlying issues that broke the surface and would have surfaced in the future.

I'd rather worry about the more than the one. I'm a believer in the needs of the many outweigh those of the few. If worrying about the emotional distress of 2% and you still lose more of the 98%, well, then IMO the thinking is flawed. Someone is allowed to die because of concern about someone's emotional state?

Now there still has been no studies to show the effectiveness of this program, or even the emotional impact.

Xazy · 08-13-2008, 10:43 AM

Cynthetiq by the way Doc, she agrees with me, so that can be a topic over a bbq (or movie night if you can fit one in)

Cynthetiq · 08-13-2008, 10:53 AM

duh of course she's going to agree, she needs the booking

levite · 08-13-2008, 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LoganSnake

All of the above can be filed under "this will not happen to me" category. Actually experiencing the emotion tied with the result of drunk driving is a much more powerful tool.

Maybe. But I can think of no quicker way, as a teacher, to lose a kid's trust forever than to spring a hideously painful and manipulative lie on them under the guise of education. I can think of few things that are more likely to harden a kid's attitude of mistrust and dislike toward authority, or their belief that adults are deceptive and out of touch with how kids think and feel.

What happens to the kid whose best friend, boyfriend, study buddy, or crush is declared dead in front of everyone? Are we really supposed to say, "Gee, I'm sorry you had the most traumatic morning of your young life, but we're kind of hoping that hearing about the death of some kid he used to steal lunch money from will maybe make the football halfback who likes to pound 40s of Mickey's on the weekends think twice before getting into his Mustang?"

I don't care if maybe it works better for a couple of kids than hearing the same message from everyone they love and zillions of signs around them. It is cruel, it is manipulative, and it is emotionally abusive. I would never participate in such a thing as a teacher, and if my kid's school did that to them, I would sue them.

Ayashe · 08-13-2008, 04:39 PM

I would imagine it being far better to make clear as a parent that regardless of the situation. You support them and do not wish for them to get in the car with a drunk or drive themselves. Whatever happened in the night happened, but at least I know you are coming home safe. I would far rather be woke in the night to bring my drunken teen home than to have an officer wake me up telling my child was killed.

When I was in high school, most of these attempts to shock us were laughable. The one instance that really did hit home was when a drunk driver hit a classmate just a little over a month before the end of school. He survived but it was definitely an eye-opener. Truth be told I think most teens fear angry parents more than death. After all, it could never happen to me...

LoganSnake · 08-13-2008, 08:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by levite

I would never participate in such a thing as a teacher, and if my kid's school did that to them, I would sue them.

Spoken like a true American.

levite · 08-13-2008, 10:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LoganSnake

Spoken like a true American.

Only because in America, we get tossed in the clink for smacking the principal upside the head.

Nisses · 08-14-2008, 04:10 AM

Why would you feel the need to smack the principal upside the head in the first place?

LoganSnake · 08-14-2008, 05:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nisses

Why would you feel the need to smack the principal upside the head in the first place?

The principal in levite's example is a mischievous student, not the head of school, if I am not mistaken.

And yes, levite, I don't agree with that either. It falls under the whole "suing for any stupid reason" category that I add new things to daily.

CinnamonGirl · 08-14-2008, 07:53 AM

We did something similar to this when I was in high school, but we knew about it beforehand. There was also a mock crash every year, complete with the life squad arriving "on the scene."

This however... well, I can't say I'm a fan. Whether or not it's effective, I think the end result for me would have been just be getting pissed off and no longer trusting my teachers.

levite · 08-14-2008, 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LoganSnake

The principal in levite's example is a mischievous student, not the head of school, if I am not mistaken.

And yes, levite, I don't agree with that either. It falls under the whole "suing for any stupid reason" category that I add new things to daily.

No, I actually meant the head of the school. Who should be smacked upside the head for permitting the manipulation and emotional abuse of the students, and not dismissing this stupid "hoax" as irresponsible and rephrehensible when it was proposed in the first place.

And I wouldn't sue for money. I would sue to get an injunction to stop the school from ever doing that again, and to get an apology for the cruelty with which the students were treated.

speshul-k · 08-14-2008, 11:09 AM

If it makes the dangers of drink driving more of a reality to anyone who gets behind a wheel then I am all for it.
Seems that any advertising campaigns, no matter how brutal are just not working here and people still take that chance.

Lives should never be put at risk due to people's own stupidity.

willynilly · 08-14-2008, 11:20 AM

Wow, so scaring a few kids each year is worse than the possibility of losing the occasional kid. Glad everyone has their priorities straight. This is a good idea. My cousin was killed many years ago by a drunk driver. Hit from behind while walking down the road and apparently thrown 20 feet. He wasn't a good kid, and probably would have spent a fair amount of time in jail later in life, but he at least deserved a shot.

And I guess it's ok to show kids car wrecks and hospital and accident pictures of real accidents because it "did not happen to anyone you know". Maybe the old ways aren't working well and we need to try something new.

levite · 08-14-2008, 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by willynilly

Wow, so scaring a few kids each year is worse than the possibility of losing the occasional kid. Glad everyone has their priorities straight. This is a good idea. My cousin was killed many years ago by a drunk driver. Hit from behind while walking down the road and apparently thrown 20 feet. He wasn't a good kid, and probably would have spent a fair amount of time in jail later in life, but he at least deserved a shot.

And I guess it's ok to show kids car wrecks and hospital and accident pictures of real accidents because it "did not happen to anyone you know". Maybe the old ways aren't working well and we need to try something new.

I don't mean to devalue anyone's experience, or suggest that lives aren't worth saving. But I do think that "trying to save lives" is not a cover-all excuse for any kind of behavior. Of course we should try to educate kids about drunk driving, and of course we should do our best to save lives. But how we live, how we treat people, is, in my opinion, often as important as preserving life.

I refuse to believe that there is no better way we can come up with to impress upon kids the importance of the lesson "don't drink and drive" than this cruel and manipulative little exercise.

This is not a question of trying to shield kids from personal experience. It's a question of being honest with them, especially in situations where the deception in question is particularly heartless.

The argument that we should emotionally abuse a lot of kids in order to potentially save the lives of a few is a classic "the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few" argument. And that argument is a fallacy: we can't always break situations down to "the many" and "the few." Quite often, we have to remember that "the many" and "the few" are abstractions. Individuals are not abstractions: they are actual personalities, actual beings, with feelings of their own.

LoganSnake · 08-14-2008, 12:05 PM

This is nothing more than an ethics question. I'm all for it. You're not. Agree to disagree.

Xazy · 08-14-2008, 01:44 PM

Why stop here, start showing everyone clips of people dying from aids, or heck pretend someone has it to teach safe sex. Have another student get lung cancer from smoking...

Again this is emotional psychological abuse, and the gain is not worth the cost.

LoganSnake · 08-14-2008, 02:54 PM

Again. "Won't happen to me".

In other words - useless.

Sion · 08-14-2008, 07:47 PM

every time I hear of one of these staged trauma deals, I think of the boy who cried wolf.

bad idea in my book

samcol · 08-14-2008, 08:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sion

every time I hear of one of these staged trauma deals, I think of the boy who cried wolf.

bad idea in my book

I think it's a horrible idea as well. I can't imagine going along with this hoax. Very sick.

06-05-2008, 01:55 PM	#41 (permalink)
Jinn Lover - Protector - Teacher Location: Seattle, WA	There are a lot of things where I can abide white lies, but the death of someone you care for is not one of those things. I'd cease communication with any 'friend' or acquaintance who thought they could fool me in such a way. Unfortunately for these children, they have no way of ceasing communication with the faculty of their school. Though I don't think a "mental anguish" type of suit would hold any type of merit, this is a very unethical thing to do, if not illegal. Even if it does 'teach' children not to drink and drive, it also secondarily teaches them that it's OK to lie when you're trying to prove a point. __________________ "I'm typing on a computer of science, which is being sent by science wires to a little science server where you can access it. I'm not typing on a computer of philosophy or religion or whatever other thing you think can be used to understand the universe because they're a poor substitute in the role of understanding the universe which exists independent from ourselves." - Willravel

06-05-2008, 03:29 PM	#43 (permalink)
The Faba Crazy	I beleive (yes, with the school year over I can now be more than a lurker!) that MADD is one of the most corrupted organizations in existance... not evil, just completely different than what they started out as. This is nothing more than a shock scheme determined to scare kids into not being retarded. I agree with this. There are way too many things and people in this world that tell people that if you make any kind of mistake 'It's okay.' and 'Don't do it again.' (I'm from Minnesota, one of the most liberal states in the nation - I saw this al the time while in school) This rhetoric leads people, especially children, into thinking that they can do anything and the consequences won't be all that dire. Unfortunately, this is not the case. After being exposed to small punishments, slaps on the wrist, and Don't-do-it-agains for their entire 7 years of Middle and High school-itude, 14 of my graduating class of 360 are dead from drug overdoses, drunk driving, and suicides... (frequency in that order with 2 suicides) I remember one person who just died a few months ago... I knew him since second grade and he was a loser the entire time. He was arrested for possesion about 5 times through high school and once for MIC. Turns out he died of a drug overdose. In his friends written eulogy, under their favorite activities together, was 'poking smot'. Maybe if someone bothered to shock him he wouldn't have been all that worthless. To further my digression, my future roommate was t-boned going through an intersection in Kansas City last week. She was hit by a 17 year old high schooler who was drunk and stoned, and didn't notice the light was red. Turns out that person had a sober passenger in the car. If they had been shocked by a school, maybe Sophia wouldn't need to pay her hospital bills or her extra insurance. So back to my main point. I approve this system. I'd rather have 100,000 high school kids get minorly scarred in one afternoon and learn it was a hoax than have one of them on the road threatening my, or my girlfriends, or my family's lives. Fuck their 'mental anguish', at least they're still alive to bitch about it. edit, t-boned, not tboned Last edited by The Faba; 06-05-2008 at 04:37 PM..*

06-06-2008, 09:56 AM	#47 (permalink)
FoolThemAll Walking is Still Honest Location: Seattle, WA	"Whoa, that was one SHOCKING lie. We'd better believe what they say!" __________________ I wonder if we're stuck in Rome.

06-13-2008, 02:50 PM	#49 (permalink)
QuasiMondo Wise-ass Latino Location: Pretoria (Tshwane), RSA	They did something similar to this back when I was in high school, except the 'dead' had their faces painted in white and we weren't allowed to acknowledge their presence. I guess the white face paint was to indicate they were ghosts, but it didn't have the same effect. But having the cops come in and tell the kids their classmate was dead? Priceless. And more effective than the chick that had her face burned off a drunk driver slammed into her car on her prom night making it burst into flames and killing her boyfriend. All that did was give people nightmares and made them feel sorry for her. I give this one an A+. I'm pretty sure two or three years from now when they're binge drinking one of them will say, "dude, remember that time the cops came into the classroom and told us you were like, dead?" __________________ Cameron originally envisioned the Terminator as a small, unremarkable man, giving it the ability to blend in more easily. As a result, his first choice for the part was Lance Henriksen. O. J. Simpson was on the shortlist but Cameron did not think that such a nice guy could be a ruthless killer. -From the Collector's Edition DVD of The Terminator Last edited by QuasiMondo; 06-13-2008 at 02:57 PM..

08-13-2008, 07:01 AM	#50 (permalink)
sodom1965 Upright	MADD Hoax After loosing my 18 year old son to a repeat offender drunk driver and loosing two more of his classmates with six months of each other due to alcohol related accidents I don't think anything is too much to get the attention of our children. We all know as teens and even adults things like that don't happen to us they happen to other people but if it makes them realize it can happen to them then maybe they will think twice before being so careless with their lives and the lives of others. They will get over this hoax a lot quicker than their family could ever get over loosing them. Sometimes we have to use the SHOCK factor to get their attention. I strongly recommend this for all high schools! Thanks MADD for all you do! Last edited by Cynthetiq; 08-13-2008 at 07:05 AM.. Reason: removed double post

06-05-2008, 02:17 PM	#42 (permalink)
Frosstbyte Winter is Coming Location: The North	Well, in the abstract this could be a case for intentional infliction of emotional distress if any of the kids could show some sort of actual trauma beyond merely "I was upset before they told me." The catch is that the jury would have to think that the conduct was outrageous and reckless with regards to the feelings of those involved. Given the link to trying to teach kids about drunk driving, I think you'd have a hard time seating a jury who would see it that way.

08-13-2008, 07:15 AM	#52 (permalink)
LoganSnake We work alone Location: Cake Town	Man, people LOVE to overreact. Everybody's safe and sound...jeez. __________________ Maturity is knowing you were an idiot in the past. Wisdom is knowing that you'll be an idiot in the future. Common sense is knowing that you should try not to be an idiot now. - J. Jacques

08-13-2008, 07:16 AM	#53 (permalink)
Poppinjay You had me at hello Location: DC/Coastal VA	I wish I could rent Red Pavement or Blood On The Highway, with MST3K treatment. __________________ I think the Apocalypse is happening all around us. We go on eating desserts and watching TV. I know I do. I wish we were more capable of sustained passion and sustained resistance. We should be screaming and what we do is gossip. -Lydia Millet

08-13-2008, 08:54 AM	#56 (permalink)
LoganSnake We work alone Location: Cake Town	A parent can teach a child that the stove is hot until they're blue in the face. Only after the child burns himself does he understand that it is in fact hot. Sure, older/adult persons have a better understand of warning, but actual experience really stays with you. Much more than anything you've been taught by parents or teachers. __________________ Maturity is knowing you were an idiot in the past. Wisdom is knowing that you'll be an idiot in the future. Common sense is knowing that you should try not to be an idiot now. - J. Jacques

08-13-2008, 09:12 AM	#57 (permalink)
levite Minion of Joss Location: The Windy City	I think what MADD did was sick. I don't care what you're trying to educate kids about, you don't make them believe their friend is dead, and then go, "Psych! Just kidding! Don't drink and drive!" That is just cruel and abhorrent. I teach high school, I know how resistant kids can be at that age. I agree that sometimes you have to go the extra mile to shock their complacency. Having an assembly where they get to meet kids paralyzed and otherwise crippled by drunk driving? A good idea. Displaying the wreck of a car driven drunk and crashed? A good idea. Showing them gory pictures or movies of drunk driving crashes? A good idea. Emotionally abusive psychological manipulation? Really unacceptable. __________________ Dull sublunary lovers love, Whose soul is sense, cannot admit Absence, because it doth remove That thing which elemented it. (From "A Valediction: Forbidding Mourning" by John Donne)

08-13-2008, 10:08 AM	#60 (permalink)
Xazy People in masks cannot be trusted Location: NYC	While you may think it may help 98% of the kids what about the other kids that it may psychologically harm. I feel there are other methods of educating children and some lines that are just wrong. And Cynthetiq while you and I agree krav maga is the right way to learn how to defend yourself, where you actually go through being choked to learn how to defend yourself it may not be the right way for everyone to learn. Here there is perhaps real psychological damage not being choked in a controlled environment.

08-13-2008, 10:16 AM	#61 (permalink)
LoganSnake We work alone Location: Cake Town	Throughout my 4 year high school career, I have been through 4 annual Drinking and Driving awareness assemblies complete with lots of fake blood, pictures of smashed cars and speeches from people who knew people who got into an accident. Have they had any effect on me? None. In fact, I found them amusing. It just doesn't work for the most part. Know what hit home? When my friend opened up the day with a speech over PA system saying goodbye to four of her close friends (my acquaintances) who have died over the weekend (it was Monday morning) in a car crash. Drunken car crash where the driver deemed it to be a good idea to take an off ramp at 120 miles per hour. No survivors. __________________ Maturity is knowing you were an idiot in the past. Wisdom is knowing that you'll be an idiot in the future. Common sense is knowing that you should try not to be an idiot now. - J. Jacques

08-13-2008, 10:43 AM	#63 (permalink)
Xazy People in masks cannot be trusted Location: NYC	Cynthetiq by the way Doc, she agrees with me, so that can be a topic over a bbq (or movie night if you can fit one in)

08-13-2008, 10:53 AM	#64 (permalink)
Cynthetiq Tilted Cat Head Administrator Location: Manhattan, NY	duh of course she's going to agree, she needs the booking __________________ I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not. What's the best nation in the world? DO-NATION!

08-13-2008, 04:39 PM	#66 (permalink)
Ayashe Psycho	I would imagine it being far better to make clear as a parent that regardless of the situation. You support them and do not wish for them to get in the car with a drunk or drive themselves. Whatever happened in the night happened, but at least I know you are coming home safe. I would far rather be woke in the night to bring my drunken teen home than to have an officer wake me up telling my child was killed. When I was in high school, most of these attempts to shock us were laughable. The one instance that really did hit home was when a drunk driver hit a classmate just a little over a month before the end of school. He survived but it was definitely an eye-opener. Truth be told I think most teens fear angry parents more than death. After all, it could never happen to me...

08-14-2008, 04:10 AM	#69 (permalink)
Nisses Shade Location: Belgium	Why would you feel the need to smack the principal upside the head in the first place? __________________ Moderation should be moderately moderated.

08-14-2008, 07:53 AM	#71 (permalink)
CinnamonGirl She's Actual Size Location: Central Republic of Where-in-the-Hell	We did something similar to this when I was in high school, but we knew about it beforehand. There was also a mock crash every year, complete with the life squad arriving "on the scene." This however... well, I can't say I'm a fan. Whether or not it's effective, I think the end result for me would have been just be getting pissed off and no longer trusting my teachers. __________________ "...for though she was ordinary, she possessed health, wit, courage, charm, and cheerfulness. But because she was not beautiful, no one ever seemed to notice these other qualities, which is so often the way of the world." "Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?"

08-14-2008, 11:09 AM	#73 (permalink)
speshul-k Insane	If it makes the dangers of drink driving more of a reality to anyone who gets behind a wheel then I am all for it. Seems that any advertising campaigns, no matter how brutal are just not working here and people still take that chance. Lives should never be put at risk due to people's own stupidity.

08-14-2008, 11:20 AM	#74 (permalink)
willynilly Banned	Wow, so scaring a few kids each year is worse than the possibility of losing the occasional kid. Glad everyone has their priorities straight. This is a good idea. My cousin was killed many years ago by a drunk driver. Hit from behind while walking down the road and apparently thrown 20 feet. He wasn't a good kid, and probably would have spent a fair amount of time in jail later in life, but he at least deserved a shot. And I guess it's ok to show kids car wrecks and hospital and accident pictures of real accidents because it "did not happen to anyone you know". Maybe the old ways aren't working well and we need to try something new.

08-14-2008, 12:05 PM	#76 (permalink)
LoganSnake We work alone Location: Cake Town	This is nothing more than an ethics question. I'm all for it. You're not. Agree to disagree. __________________ Maturity is knowing you were an idiot in the past. Wisdom is knowing that you'll be an idiot in the future. Common sense is knowing that you should try not to be an idiot now. - J. Jacques

08-14-2008, 01:44 PM	#77 (permalink)
Xazy People in masks cannot be trusted Location: NYC	Why stop here, start showing everyone clips of people dying from aids, or heck pretend someone has it to teach safe sex. Have another student get lung cancer from smoking... Again this is emotional psychological abuse, and the gain is not worth the cost.

08-14-2008, 02:54 PM	#78 (permalink)
LoganSnake We work alone Location: Cake Town	Again. "Won't happen to me". In other words - useless. __________________ Maturity is knowing you were an idiot in the past. Wisdom is knowing that you'll be an idiot in the future. Common sense is knowing that you should try not to be an idiot now. - J. Jacques

08-14-2008, 07:47 PM	#79 (permalink)
Sion Dumb all over...a little ugly on the side Location: In the room where the giant fire puffer works, and the torture never stops.	every time I hear of one of these staged trauma deals, I think of the boy who cried wolf. bad idea in my book __________________ He's the best, of course, of all the worst. Some wrong been done, he done it first. -fz I jus' want ta thank you...falettinme...be mice elf...agin...