How are gas prices affecting you?
 

While I was out and about today, I noticed that gas in my area is averaging about $3.35 for the lowest octane unleaded. The rising price of gas has definitely affected me and my family.

We bought a second car (Ford Taurus) last summer that we avoid using because it doesn't get nearly the gas mileage of our Honda Civic. We have to fill it up three times in a week if we both drive it work, whereas we fill the Civic up twice when we both drive it to work. Gas prices were a major consideration when I was debating whether to keep my current job or find a new one when the company relocates in June. The company has decided to lease a van and the 5 of us that are staying with the company and live in the Salt Lake area will be carpooling to work every day.

I was considering a trip to New Mexico in the upcoming months to visit with some friends but have decided against it...mainly due to the cost of gas. I'm sure that our road trips in the future will be less frequent than in the past, and air travel is unlikely for us anytime soon.

Our "fun money" for movies, dinners out, and the like has been cut into as well. We are staying in more often and renting movies instead of going to the theater, much to my dismay. One of mine and hubby's favorite pasttimes is watching movies in the theater; we used to go 2-3 times per month but we've only gone 3-4 times since the New Year.

Indirectly, prices for food and such have gone up and our grocery bill is larger than it was a year ago. I'm not an expert on the economy, but I know that rising fuel prices for the transport of goods have been passed onto the consumer.

So...how have gas prices affected you? Has your standard of living changed? Have you made lifestyle changes because of it?

Fortunately, I have a bicycle and use it for my main mode of transportation. I drive a station wagon, which is not the most fuel efficient car, but is occasionally necessary for the work that I do. I only drive a few miles a week, so the expense of gas hasn't really cut into my budget. Plus, riding my bicycle allows me to save my gas for longer trips, and I don't burn all that extra gas I might burn were I driving around my town on a daily basis--this town is compact and bicycling often proves to be more practical than driving. My plan is to keep on biking as much as possible.

I recently moved to a new apartment. My old one was 12 miles from my job. My new one is 2 miles away. My car gets 24 miles per gallon. I figured at $3.00 a gallon my savings from gas saved on my daily commute amounts to about $57.00 a month. High gas prices were not the only factor in my decision to move, but it was one of the factors.

We drive Tt's 2003 diesel beetle, which gets excellent mileage. Still, fuel is expensive and we chose to live walking distance from the university, where I attend school and Tt works. We walk nearly everywhere, only drive when we have a lot to carry. I also have a bicycle, but haven't chosen it over walking for a few months.

So, we're lucky. Fuel prices aren't affecting us drastically. We travel less. Tt is less inclined to finish his private pilot's lisence because he realizes it is an expensive hobby, but that does go beyond fuel prices.

I'm sure it will affect us more when we no longer live in a dense city where all of our needs are met within a few short blocks.

Nothing yet. If things get bad, I'll buy a diesel and use biodiesel. The MB ML has a diesel that looks pretty good.

I've been driving for 3 years now. If you ask me how much the gas is in my area, I wouldn't be able to tell you. I drive to work and school. I give my sister and girlfriend rides to work and back quite regularly. I get errands done. I drive to stores. I have a car, it needs to eat, I feed it.

I fill up on average once every week. Sometimes a little over a week. Costs me about $40 a pop for a full tank from a Shell station (I only use 89 Octane). I also sometimes use Mobil. I would be lying if I wasn't happy that summer is near. My Protege gets about 28 mpg in the summer (if I ease off the gas) and only 21-23 in the winter. I'm already feeling the savings.

The price of gas has not affected me in the least. I drive about the same amount as before. My new car actually gets slightly worse mileage than the last one and I have to use the high octane gas.

No matter how little or how much money I made, I've never allowed my spending to reach a point where an extra $15-20 dollars a week would force me to make sacrifices.

The average dentist in the US makes about $110k a year. While I applaud your hard work in attaining your degree and establishing a practice, not everyone is in such a comfortable position. In other words, some people may not have the luxury you and I have in being able to decide what we can and can't spend money on. Not everyone is upper middle class (or lower upper class?).

Had these prices shifted when I was in school and had 3 jobs, I would have been cutting into rent or food money.

I walk every day. Sometimes I take the car out, but because it's a luxury I understand that with that luxury comes the costs associated with luxury.

It makes me surprised when I fill up my tank. Almost $50 to fill up a Neon 12.5 gallon tank.

I'd be glad when the price of gas matches the rest of Europe. All those fucktards who drive SUVs because they think it's "cool" or "think" they need to haul things and people can take a keen look at what their real needs and choices are.

I see plenty of Escalades, Navigators, Denali Suburbans...

Funny how people are only seeing that it affects their pocket at the gas pump.

Most of my groceries have gone up if not doubling in the past 2 years alone. Tropicana Orange juice is now $3.99 a half gallon. Pizza slices are adjusting to almost $2.50. A bagel is now $1.25 up from $.65.

I really will not stand for American's complaining about the price of fuel.

You dont know youre born!

At the moment the price of diesel in the UK is about £1.15 a litre.

There are 0.22 Gallons in a litre

Assuming an exchange rate of roughly 2 USD = 1 GBP

You are complaining that you have to pay about 33% of the price that I do.

And what kind of monstrosity gets 24 MPG? 3.5 tonne GLW vans get better MPG than that!

im the only fucker in here thats laughing at the moment!

muuwaaahahahaha

i live in the middle east (dubai to be exact), and here petrol is dirt cheap (its even cheaper in saudi). i full up a full tank for around 70dhs once a week, which works out to be about $19USD per tank for a nissan sunny, i think its a 50litre tank.

however, i dont pay a cent cos its a company paid and maintained car. so all petrol, maintenance, rental etc is all paid by the company. i see nothing in car bills.

so i cant say that im affected at all by the rising price of fuel

muuwaahahaha!

ok..ill stop now.

haha... well, as I live in a rather large oil producing country, you would think that gas prices are dirt cheap here too. But Nooooo. They are twice what they were in 1998 (just 10 yrs ago). Today regular unleaded (87 octane) is hovering around $115/litre. Last week it was $.98/litre. Who knows what it will be next week? Most of the cost of a litre of gas is government tax.

How has it affected me? Well, I have always budgeted $20/wk per vehicle for gas. This still seems to be sufficient for my day to day driving requirements. Although the V6 Rav4 is thirstier than my Jetta around the city, it is far better on the highway.

As for British prices being outlandish, well, aren't they always? From what I recall, everything over their is the same price as here, except the units are pounds, instead of dollars, so everything is double the cost.

We're paying around $8 a gallon here, so no pity whatsoever. :) I can't WAIT to do our US road trip at the end of this month (driving coast to coast) because we're going to be paying dirt cheap prices for gas, at $3.50 or whatever... over 50% cheaper than what we usually pay. I'm stoked!!!

I try to conserve it for the big trips.

Since the fall, I've been getting up at 4 a.m. to take my daughter to her bus stop. I used to get up later, then go back home and shower and head to work. Now I get ready early and head to work nearly two hours early because of the gas I'd burn going back home and then heading out again.

I also take the time to plan out my errands and no longer just hop in the car when the whim strikes me. I try to purchase gas on Tuesdays or Wednesdays when the price will often drop a cent or two per gallon.

i also recal it´s 1600km from rvk to rvk via the whole island. i drive 15 km to work (hfj) and for most icelanders that´s insanity. still, it costs me around 800isk where the same trip used to be around 500isk. we pay through the nose for petrol but distances equalise it thankfully.

The UK is the most expensive place in the world to buy fuel that I know of - no pity for no one!

At the moment I think my company can buy Red diesel (ie - with no duty, for reefer's and donkey engines, etc) at about 38 pence a litre, and white diesel at 1.15 a litre - so thats the element of it here which is duty and VAT (sales Tax)

Yeah, but it's not like they set gas prices based on how far people drive... and in the rest of Europe, prices aren't that different (and people still drive pretty far). I know some people in Iceland who drive every day between Keflavík and Reykjavík, and I'm sure you saw the truck drivers protesting the high prices the last few weeks. So I don't think it really gets equalized... it just depends on your particular commute and salary.

no change yet. however my considerations for my location of my house when i purchase it will come into play. I bike to work three days a week, and i'd liek to keep that the same!

I have a motorcycle that gets 50 mpg. I live 20 miles from work and don't usually go anywhere else. So a full tank costs me on average of 13 dollars and will last me the whole week. But, the hard thing for me right now is my bike broke down in november, so i'm taking the train and bus to work. The sucky side to that is it's costing me double to take public transportation than it was to drive my bike.
I can't wait to get back on it.

/ Threadjack

... if you haven't heard Russell Peters yet, Youtube him. He has one routine where he is lising out a bunch of ethnically diverse matchups. Cubans and Icelanders would be Ice-Cubes.

sorry you and Abaya just jogged my memory. Carry on with your your gas problems... :)

/ end Threadjack

Quit acting young, you would think I was born a dentist.

Think before you assume.

And for the record I'm currently running a net LOSS of 5k a month, but proper planning means I can do this for a while, a long while before $15 dollars more makes a huge difference.

Fuel efficiency standards in the United States are awful. The Wikipedia article gives a decent overview:

The bolding is mine.

I don't own a car nor do i need a car. I take the bus in the winter and ride a bicycle in the summer months and only live 1 km away from work to which i walk everyday.

I guess i feel the price of gas because the overall cost of goods and services that rely on transportation.

I am looking at buying a new house here coming up so i will need a car/truck for minimum the first year or two of ownership (for transporting home reno stuff...etc) so i guess i'll really be able to tell then.

For now i rely on my legs, the bus and sponging rides of people when i need to carry something heavy lol.

the CAFE standards have pissed me off since the 1980s when I became aware that we're not doing enough and allowing corporates to lobby for an "easier, softer" way.

I'd also note that, there are fuel surcharges on almost everything these days.

FedEx, airlines, and apartment oil heating to name a few.

Haven't you ever heard the old adage "always live below your means"?

BTW, 28 mpg here.

Believe it or not a midsize 1998 Chevy Malibu with a 3.1 liter v6 engine. Although it does improve to 30 mpg on the highway.
http://www.canadiandriver.com/articl...malibu_ls1.jpg

Agreed. The thing that really pisses me off is the whole scam with E85. That came about when the farm lobby convinced Congress to give automakers a 3 mpg bump for CAFE purposes if they built vehicles with E85 capability. Since the only real cost to the manufacturers was changing from steel fuel lines to stainless steel fuel lines, putting in higher capacity injectors, and writing new software for the computers to recognize when the engine was running on E85. Minimal cost compared to the engineering and use of lighter materials that would have resulted in having to actually make the vehicle get 3 more miles per gallon. The domestic brand automakers have been building in this capability in many of their vehicles for 7 or 8 years now, but have only been publicizing it for the past 2 or 3 since gas prices have shot up.

I'm sure you've also heard that "it takes money to make money..."

without taking some risk, there's no gain.

i did wonder exactly what the protests were going to achieve. funny part was i was driving rvk-hfj during the protests several times and only found out after ie no impact on me at all. you are right that it depends on the commute and salary. a low income earner probably wouldn´t work too far from home and will drive a car that´s as small and fuel efficient as possible. and i don´t see a doctor or a banker zipping around in a yaris or a micra. hell, this is iceland... having said that i´d be curious to know if there are countries that have vast distances and high fuel prices. both the states and australia have comparably low prices which offsets the vast distances (50-150km a day in au is rather common) europe tends to be more closed in and i remember in slovenia having to commute further than 15 minutes to work is considered just stupid, but then slovenia is tiny and if you drive to far you literally run out of slovenia. i´d be curious to hear how it is in larger places like germany. having said that a lot of places in europe are now well served by low budget flights which is a viable alternative. do the people you know work or are they at uni? i have a friend who lives in kef as well and she tells me there is a free shuttle bus as kef is where all the accommodation is cheap and hance the students (including herself) end up being housed. i have another friend who works in hfj and he commutes from sandgerði everyday, but then that´s what having kids does to you...

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This :rolleyes:

Don't we make like the exact same amount? I own a house.

what does that have to do with ustwo expanding his business that is currently costing him $5,000 more a month?

You've paid off your mortgage already?

Biofuels - seriously? I mean, it costs more to produce and it cuts back on how much food is produced. So in essence, you'll be paying more for food. Plus, the mpg is less than regular gas so you'll actually pay more per gallon. And the carbon footprint to produce this stuff is very high.

I recently pruchased a new Camry hybrid. I've been getting 35-36 mpg and got 37.7 mpg over 750 miles on a recent trip. Hybrids don't have the premium price any more so I got it at the same amount I would have paid for a regular 6 cylinder. Rides like a dream and very quiet and you operate it just like a regular car.

When done right, biodiesel isn't a bad alternative. It can be made from food byproducts and inedible plant sources (think waste vegetable oil, jatropha oil, and switchgrass). Will it be done right one day? Well, it depends on how the markets and the politics play out.

Biodiesel is not ethanol. It has a much lower carbon footprint than gas or diesel. It's made from WASTE vegetable oil, so it doesn't "cut back on how much food is produced". Not only that, but it's emissions are really excellent; substantially better than a hybrid. Oh, and biodiesel actually cleans injectors, fule lines, pumps and tanks, and it constantly lubricates the engine, which means less engine problems and a longer motor life. Where are you getting your information from?

As for your hybrid? If you bought a Geo Metro, you could be getting 55 mpg. And you can get one for less than a grand, that way if you have an issue with ride quality, you could use the $32,000 you saved not buying a Prius or Camry and get McPherson struts off a Porsche.

so when everyone is in need of using biodiesel, will it really be cheap and effective? In other words, when scarcity comes into play will it actually be "free" and a real alternative with proper distribution channels?

It would suck to drive from SF to LA and not have any idea if you will be able to refuel or not.

HAHAHAHA!!! Not even a little. Biodiesel is for me, right now, before everything goes to shit (there's a biodiesel station right around the corner). If everything goes to shit, I'll be too busy trying to redirect the local creek to a park for crops to worry about fuel. Biodiesel is an alternative.

Do you really need to ask that? If everyone is in need of biodiesel, it means an alternative fuel source is being used in place of a previously cheap and abundant source. I wouldn't expect it to be cheap. Fuel for automobiles in the U.S. can't be cheap forever when you burn at the rate it's burning.

Yes I need to ask that.

I recall my parents owning a Benz 300SD in the 70's and there was a book which came with the diesels telling you where diesel was sold. We based our family vacations on stops along where diesel was sold.

So until you KNOW where you can purchase something, just because there is an alternative doesn't mean there is infrastructure to distribute it, it doesn't mean it's a viable alternative for every consumer.

I had a friend who's race car used jetfuel. His range and limit was from airport to airport. Hardly a viable alternative, but an example of scarce locations for refuelling.

Cynth, any car that runs on biodiesel can run on regular diesel (which is available in any town, city, or along any highway), so that's a non-issue. I can name a dozen diesel selling gas stations in my neighborhood alone. And when California starts allowing auto manufacturers to sell diesel cars again, that number is going to increase.

right, because diesel is SOooooooOOO much cheaper than regular unleaded. Truckers are so happy to pay that low premium.

Your point about the biodiesel is that it's a cheaper alternative. I removed using diesel from the equation since it's an apples with apples comparison.

It's more efficient, which more often than not compensates for the higher price. In addition to that, most diesel cars have better emissions than gas cars now. It's an exciting time to drive a diesel.
Locate that statement in this thread. It's better, not cheaper.
Because there's a biogas station nearby? Common, you can do better than that.

No it's not. We don't burn the same diesel that Europe does. It's getting better but it's not the same as the diesels I drive in Germany.

Again, you're the one that stated that you can get your biodiesel wherever. I contend that the infrastructure isn't in place for EVERYONE to get it easily.

The cars burn it better, I never said the quality of the diesel was better. What's with you and strawmen today?
And another strawman. I said you can get diesel anywhere. I can get biodiesel around the corner. That's convenient for me. I'm not marketing biodiesel to others, I'm saying it's a good option for me.
No and it likely never will because we consume too much fuel period to have an actual replacement for gas be it ethanol, biodiesel, hydrogen, or pixy-dust. All we can do is bring together as many decent alternatives as possible and hope that someone reinvents the light bulb when it comes to fuel. For me, personally, biodiesel is a damn good alternative. It probably isn't for you.

From my experience:

Biodiesel definitely isn't available anywhere. It is only found in reasonable distance to "green-concious" metropolitan areas. There are kits out there to make older diesels run off of vegetable oils, though it does require some processing and often isn't worth the hassle.

Fuel efficiency for a new well-designed diesel is contestibly better than hybrid technologies.

Tt bought his diesel because he was looking for the most fuel-efficient vehicle on the market.

The cost of diesel is often 50cents more/gallon than premium gasolene.

will is right on the mark. the diesel engine was originally designed to be run on anything that will combust and biofuels work just as well as diesel, at least on the vast majority of engines. when the price of petrol 1st started to skyrocket mebe 5-6 years ago i did a lot of research into biofuels and back then it was possible to manufacture it yourself (it is a bit of a hassle) for less than 1/2 the price of diesel fuel. now with the price of oil it will be less than 1/3 of diesel. this gets added to the fuel consumption benefits of a diesel (fuel efficiency is directly related to compression ratio and while petrol powered cars run 8.5-11 to 1 diesels run around 22:1 which means near twice as efficient as the equivalent petrol engine.)

Great post.

The cars in Europe burn it even better, they burn it better and cleaner than any diesels here in the US.

If it was such a great thing, then the Euro companies would just ship over their cars as is. But they can't because the cars cannot run on the crappy diesel we have here.

You aren't marketing it to anyone but yourself. Yet your other ills of society are for the whole, suddenly you are only concerned about you and your own? Seriously, WTF is that selfishness? A sharp difference in your viewpoint, from the benefit of everyone to "it's all good for me."

My point is again that until it's a great concept, but there's little practicality in it for the majority at the moment.

It's a different marketing strategy. Typically liberals try to sell with legitimate statistics that go ignored. I prefer modeling reality. It's harder to ignore. As to what I'm modeling? Find your own alternative. Biodiesel works for me. Riding a bike might work for you. While there's not enough biodiesel to help everyone, there's a lot more out there than what's being utilized now. It's the same for all the alternatives. People use the "it can't replace oil" bullshit as an excuse. It can be an alternative, one among many.

so wait, when you do it, it's a different marketing strategy, when I do it it's a strawman.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...acepalmly4.png

1) You clearly don't know what strawman means
2) You're not Ustwo, and it's even getting old when he does it.

Currently in Calgary gas prices are 1.189 a liter, this equals 4.50 per gallon. I love driving in the states! Gas prices seem so cheap there!

The price is in liberal guilt!

I have no idea what that even means Will...

As far as this affecting me: I hardly drive to school anymore (its about a 30km drive... or 17 for you yanks!), I take the bus/train as often as possible, or drive to the station and then take the train. I cut down from filling up twice a week to a little more often than every other week.

When at the girlfriends we never drive anywhere anymore, we now just walk to where we want to go, or take the train. It makes it more fun anyways, a nice walk beats driving any day.

I spend $64 a semester for an unlimited-ride transit pass. I'm not sure the mpg I get from it, but I think it's pretty good, especially given the electric light rail trains and the transit authority's steady conversion to hybrid buses.

Unfortunately, the early 90's buick that we drive to day care and for other miscellaneous errands gets pretty shitty mileage. Good thing the weather's warming up. Our next car will probably be either a hybrid or a diesel, provided HCCI's aren't feasible yet (assuming they ever will be).

People like me (liberalas sapiens) like to make people that drive gigantic SUVs feel guilty for the deaths of hundreds of thousands of Arabs and thousands of soldiers in oil. And we worship at the church of Al Gore. :thumbsup:

The thread question, more aptly should be....how is the declining purchasing power of the US dollar, affecting you? The rising price of fuel is a reaction to the declining valuation of some of the world's paper currencies. Gasoline has barely risen in price, if purchased today in eruos, compared to in 2002. Gasoline is cheaper now than in 2002, if purchased with gold or silver.

I bought a small roll of Kleenex brand paper towels that cost 95 cents recently, and the price yesterday was $1.12. I think this is only the beginning of a period of dollar purchasing power decline, for everyday goods. The dollar will buy more house, more NYSE and Nasdaq stock shares, and more low fuel mileage vehicles, but that has more to do with declining demand, than it does dollar valuation.

I am surprised that the dollar has not dropped in value more deeply and more rapidly. Since last september, the Federal Reserve has lowered short term interest rates from 5-1/2 percent, to 2-1/4 percent, with the expectation of further reductions. The short term interest rate is now half the level of the euro rate.

The only answer is fuel conservation in the US. Even with the slowing economy, the US borrowed $63 billion, instead of the expected $59.5 billion, for one month's purchase of imports. We're using 25 percent of the world's total daily petroleum production, with just 6 per cent of world population. We import 2/3 of the 22 million bbl petroleum equivalents that we consume here each and every day. We only produce 1/3 of what we use, and we borrow the money to import the rest. US petroleum production peaked at 10.6 million bbls per day, 36 years ago, and our society went right on consuming it as if we still produced the bulk of what we use, here.

There will be periods of lower gasoline prices, with lessening demand coming due to high prices and deep recession, higher unemployment, less demands for transport of goods, but the trend is now established. The conservation mindset and commitment is still to come, and it will be resisted, and a catalyst for a huge change in the way that we live. Houses in neighborhoods located further from jobs will lose value, and homes nearer to jobs and shopping and amusements will increase in value. The northern US population will move south in even greater numbers.

Food and consumer goods will continue to rise in price, and income will not keep up. Suburban development (sprawl), fast food industry, and tourism were all planned and built with no allowance for expensive motor fuel, and no money was allocated for mass transit buildout, compared to highways and vehicle bridges. Now we'll get to experience the consequences of such narrow thinking and lack of flexibility in design and allocation of development resources.

It's probably a good time to start a new business selling or offering motorcycle operation instruction.

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Just walk away.

host, how does this fit in with Canada then? We produce vast amounts of petroleum, export tons as well, and have a rising dollar value. And yet we pay more for food, housing, gas, every thing costs more here.

Ustwo, were those hybrid flame throwers?

E85

Average US & State combined tax at the pump for a US gallon of gasoline is .47 US per gallon, in Canada, you pay nearly $1.20 US for just less than 4 liters of gasoline!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuel_tax#Canada

You also enjoy a balance of trade surplus and a federal budget surplus. The US will go $1.5 trillion deeper in debt in the 12 months ending 9/30/08 in those two combined items....trade balance and federal budget. That is why your currency is so strong. You better seek a new principle trade partner though, because we're borrowing the money we pay for the lumber, petroleum, and other commodities you export to us. We won't be paying back the loans in current value dollars...if at all!

If I wanted a cheap car I would have purchased one. I went from a Lexus ES330 to the Camry. And since you mentioned carbon footprint, you'll need to note that the Camry hybrib carbon footprint is negligable compared to the Geo Metro. And I doubt the Geo really would get 55 mpg.

Good luck finding your bio fuel everywhere you need to be. And I'll bet it will start being made with food if it really got popular because these folks will mmake anything the least expensive way in the big picture posible.

The bottom line is that we have to get off fuel. Europe figured out long ago to make electricity from nucleat power plants. They are light years ahead of us in that regard. Meanwhile we still burn coal. Or corn, which is what your biodiesel will be made from before it's over - if you can find it - and you'll pay even more per gallon.

Almost forgot to mention - anyone that has evr driven a Porche understands it's not about the ride; rather, its about the handling. Putting Porche struts on a Geo at best would give you better handling, not ride. And it would really be like putting a wig on a hooker - just a wasted accessory!

Hasn't affected me at all. I've changed none of my habits and don't see the need to.

Biofuels are an enormous con.

<a href="http://www.physorg.com/news4942.html">They need more input energy than they give in output energy</a>

Crops before WW2 were not produced with the kinds of extremely intensive (petroleum derived) pesticide and fertilizers regimes that have become ever more popular since the end of the war. IIRC crops produced in that manner can be sustainable for biofuels in and of themselves, without taking into consideration the deforestation, etc that normally goes before... So we need to green the Sahara, basically... or wait for it to green itself? :p

I've read better sources on this issue, but a quick googling gives me this document whose last paragraph tells you that, for US on-farm production in 1977, there were 10 calories input for every 1 calorie output in the food supply. (The second to last paragraph is interesting as well - marketing food consumes 1.8% of total US consumption of energy??? hmm. o_O)

10:1 is a very much understated figure, if memory serves. Figures I've read elsewhere range from 30:1 to 55:1.

Biofuels need enormous amounts of fertilizers and pesticides to be grown in an industrialised manner. The inputs and outputs don't work... Umm.. didn't that even get into an episode of The West Wing once? (The Corn Pledge?)

Oh yes! King Corn - hardly the best of sources, but still.

The price of oil goes up, the price of pesticides, fertilizers and the fuel to move produce around goes up, hence the price of basic commodities sky-rockets... Including... Biofuels!

Anything that depends on cheap oil in it's production cannot be an alternative to cheap oil.

All of this, really, is back to Peak Oil.

Solar, wind and nuclear - mostly nucular ( :p ) as it stands - are the only options available to conserve the remaining cheaply accessible fossil fuels we have as a means of producing plastics, fertilizers and pretty much all of our oil-dependent products... won't happen though.

You bring up some good points, but this is an overstatement. You haven't convinced me to give up on what is an emerging technology.

You leave out some important details. Switchgrass has low fertilization and herbicide requirements, for starters, and it's a hardy perennial with a complex and well-established root system, to boot. Also, some have found ways of getting 4 units of energy output for every 1 unit of input.

For years, it was ridiculously expensive to extract oil from the tar sands in Alberta. Almost not worth it. But they've developed the technology to make it more viable and rewarding (though the environmental factors are questionable). Canada is now poised to be the next Saudi Arabia. Hoser Canadia?

I believe the same could be done with biofuels. I wouldn't give up so easily.

Didn't you buy a Camry?
You doubt wrong! Or something like that. Good buddy of mine regularly gets about 53 mpg with his 1.3L Metro.
I can use biodiesel when I'm near home and regular diesel if I travel.
It probably won't ever get too popular, but as I said before there's more biodiesel out there than what's currently being used by a large margin. In other words, even if use of biodiesel rises considerably, they won't be dipping into food any time soon.
I don't think having nuclear rods in my car would be safe. Either you're talking about electric cars (which I support) or you're not taking transportation into consideration.
Oh comon, you knew i was kidding. The point I was making is that you could get way better than 43 mpg (what the average Camry Hybrid gets) and not have to spend much at all.

and in the near future we´ll have take that con and drive with it. unless you prefer to walk. then you can leave it :)

I traded my Chevrolet Colorado (21 MPG) for a Pontiac Vibe (34 MPG).

Due to my daily commute to college, gas prices were a huge slice of my monthly budget pie. Not anymore. I like my dorky little station wagon plenty.

SHOW US THE BEAST!

Seriously. Gotta put some dubs on your whip, homes.

I thought that iceland was moving towards a hydrogen vehicle system. Biofuels still is an import to Iceland isn't it?

Of course if one could harness the steam energy.... we could be all like Steamboy!

i know of a solitary station on the way to mosó that sells hydrogen fuel. haven´t seen any biofuels here but i also haven´t been looking. i´ll keep an eye out. there *may* be something to do this the busses but i´m not sure.

What about your vagina-massaging Eclipse, Mr. Ravel? DO IT.

Where is the action on your promise of a oh-so-humble Geo Metro?

...

Solo commuters using SUVs 7 days a week? Gas crisis? No kidding!

You've got it. As soon as I get home from work (and immediately back on the phone, ain't work grand?).
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c3...el/Eclipse.jpg
Oh my god look behind you!! *runs*

You traded in the Colorado? Never saw that one coming.

Iceland is in a bit of a unique position energy-wise that makes hydrogen a more viable solution for them than it is elsewhere.

My cost-of-living (rent, car, insurance, utilities, cable, food) is one half of my salary. Thereby, the high cost of gas might be cutting into my discretionary spending, but I'd be hard to measure the effect of gas prices in the standard of measure, video games. I'm probably about .5 video games poorer than I was when gas was cheaper. I get about 28 MPG, I think.

That said, I do have empathy for those who feel the crunch. I'd offer to drive them around, but my car only holds 2.5 people comfortably.

1: Imperial gallons and US gallons aren't the same thing
2: A lot of our major metropolitan areas are as far apart as your country is long and it isn't practical to build public transportation unless we're going to double everyone's tax rates.
3: What portion of your fuel cost is tax?

I would argue that the .5 person wouldn't be very comfortable at all.

Eh, 2 or 3 buses in the ENTIRE COUNTRY run on hydrogen from that very fancy hydrogen stop by Nói Sírius... it's really just for show. The rest of the country drives around in the usual gas-guzzling manner, with their Hummers and god knows what else. Tell me why this tiny nation needs a STRETCH LIMO HUMMER to cruise down Laugavegur?!

I don't think .5 would complain much about being uncomfortable.

A third (3.0) sure does.

I currently drive a minivan to haul shit around, and to take the wife her kid on a road trip to Ontario last summer. It gets a stunning 23 (or so) MPG, it is so brutal. I try to drive that POS as little as possible. But the train is my normal means of transport.

Oh yea, the van is a ford windstar, 98.

We've got hydrogen busses in San Jose, but they're fucking expensive as hell. It's something like $50 a mile. I mentioned the idea of simply using solar panels to create electricity that would extract hydrogen and oxygen from water instead of purchasing hydrogen from some really expensive vendors, but I was basically ignored. So instead of an initial cost of solar power and a tiny cost for tap water, we are paying $50 a mile on a program that will likely be cited in the future as a "failure of hydrogen in public transportation". Fucking morons.

Yeah, I got a great deal on the trade, too. In the words of WillRavel, "...it was almost rape."

If there is one thing I am... it's practical. I'm a frugal fucker, Martian. I don't need a pickup truck right now in life. I probably won't need one ever again. Why pay the money on gas and insurance? The Vibe is very utilitarian albeit station wagonesque. I get the feeling a lot of people could and should do what I've done with their vehicles.

...

I believe family vehicle choices make the gas crisis what it is... it isn't the cost of a gallon of unleaded, it's the fuel economy of the vehicles we choose to drive. I made a choice and now a gallon of gas goes a lot farther for me. Others should follow suit and quit bitching about their unnecessary Suburbans and H3s.

A modern day Cassandra.

Daughter of Priam, king of Troy?

Thats the one.

mmm. there are 2 (two) marked electric car parking spots on the main street and i missed a golden photo opportunity with one parking space taken up by a supercharged range rover and the other a brand new mercedes coupe. i used to drive a vw golf but now i have the volvo 850 and i still feel dwarfed my a lot of the icelandic cars. what they do is jack up the suvs and put on 40+" tyres on them so they can handle glaciers and the like as well as very bad snowfalls. then they drive them through the tiny rvk city centre streets...

It looks like I'm getting an Audi when I get a new job (reflashing the ECM for high performance has the added bonus of bumping fuel economy to ~38mpg if you cruise at 70mph,) but I'm still holding on to my idea of getting an H1 and getting waste oil from any of the few hundred restaurants in town that has a deep fryer. Taking a guzzling, polluting vehicle out of the equation and turning it into one that runs on free garbage and has a low carbon footprint (and can off-road and crush small cars and children) sounds like my idea of a good time. Plus, if I ever run out of gas I would have a choice between regular diesel and stopping at the grocery store for a few bottles of veggie oil.

What a waste of expensive tires :(

You really know how to hurt a guy. You think a Camry is cheap? It's a less expensicv version of the Lexus ES350 which I would have purchased had it been a hybrid. A GEO is cheap, a Camry is a good, solid vehicle and loaded is very nice. What do you drive? Oh, and you'd better check your facts because the average Camry hybrid won't come close to 43 mpg in ordinary driving. It's rated for 34, 35. You must be confused with a Prius that actually get's more than 43 mpg.

As far as nuclear rods in a car, come on - now you're being silly and insulting if you think that's what I thought I meant. Please don't put words in my mouth. My wife does that enough for me.

And the way you talked about Porche struts - how could I tell you were kidding? You basically jumped all over me. By the way, my wife drives a Boxter and the ride isn't that great but it corners like a dream.

The 43 thing was keyboard dyslexia. I get it from time to tmie. And I was just razzing you about the Camry. It's a respectable vehicle, of course. Toyota makes very dependable vehicles, some of the most dependable on the road. Still, 34 mpg for a hybrid doesn't seem like much of a deal. The non-hybrid Civic gets that. And the Civic hybrid is rated at 45 mpg highway.
Of course I was also kidding, but the point I was trying to make is that you weren't offering an alternative. You mentioned Europe using nuclear energy, but that only translates to transportation if it's stored electricity, like an electric car.

I feel much better about you.

I've driven a Civic and a Civic is no Camry. Small car vs. much larger car. We need to compare apples to apples. That's why the Geo comparison hit me wrong. And 34 mpg is pretty darn good when the non-hybrid 3.3 L engine of the ES 330 only gets 23 mpg. I've basically cut the relative value of a gallon of gas by 50%. That will save me $800 a year if I drive 15K miles and the price of gas is $3.50/gallon.

This is a relational thing as I'm not going for the absolute best milage but am going for a balance of comfort, style and economy. With leather, auto climate control, electric seats, basically all the major comforts of a Lexus, adds up to a lot. Also, all these non-hybrids produce tons of carbon. Yes, I do have a little tree-hugger in me to say the least. It has been said that the air from a hybrid Camry or Prius tailpipe is cleaner that that of the air you breathe in most downtown city areas.

In terms of electricity, I thought you could easily see I was talking about electric cars. Geez! We're talking about powering cars and you're a pretty smart guy so I didn't think hand holding was needed.

We can power everything we need with clean electricity powered from nuclear plants. I've learned a great deal about that over the past few years since I have a nephew that graduated from GA Tech a few years ago with a degree in nuclear engineering. In fact, Europe (France with some other participating countries - and the USA backed out but now wants in) has a new nuclear technology using fission. You'll see that hitting its stride by 2020 or sooner.

<h3>Tough "Love":</h3>

The least I ever paid for a gallon of gasoline was 19.9 cents, in Galveston, TX, in 1972.....and the most was yesterday, $3.359.....

Time is growing short for the US to either order it's military to "pay back" the investment made in it by a sudden furious attempt to confiscate every other country's nuclear weapons as a prelude to controlling commodities, or.... drastic cuts in US military spending are needed to free up funding for a mass transit buildout and alternative energy technology. We in the US use four times the energy per person than an equal share by population would allocate us, so we're going to feel what is coming, four times as intensely as a lot of the rest of the world.

I've gone from putting $5 in my tank to $10 every two weeks. :p I'm just glad i work only a couple minutes from my house.

In order to replace oil with nuclear, we'd need to build something like 10,000 nuclear reactors (Breeder reactors). At a cost of $3-5 billion per reactor, that would cost at least $30,000,000,000,000 or $30 trillion. And that doesn't even compensate for rising energy requirements that will continue to rise as 10,000 nuclear reactors were built, which would take about 25 years.

Interesting, and yet people think we can replace our energy needs with solar and wind power?

BTW that link is dead, perhaps you can site the source you got it from since it wasn't your original source?

Edit: Hehe googling it did find it sited in some 'interesting' hits. I liked this ones solutions....

Key changes needed
· Urgent need to reduce consumption of fossil fuels, especially
oil, through:
o lifestyle change - eg greater use of public transport,
using smaller cars, car-sharing, holidaying closer to home
o energy efficiency technologies - eg more fuel-efficient
vehicles, better home insulation
o renewable energy technologies - wind, solar, biomass,
water (hydro, wave, tidal), geothermal
o government policies and measures to support these
changes, eg eco-taxes, carbon trading, regulation, R&D
support
o strengthening of the UN Framework Convention on
Climate Change, especially binding targets on the biggest
emitters (the largest being the USA) based on
"Contraction and Convergence" principles (Ustwo note, its now China, expect the left to ignore)
· Urgent need to stem the global flow of weapons, especially
small arms in poorer countries whose environmental resources
are under stress and conflict may occur
o need strengthening of UN programme of action on
eradicating illegal small arms
o need countries to agree a UN arms trade treaty
o USA, which has highest levels of small arms in private
hands and is world's largest arms exporter, is resisting
these efforts
· Urgent need to support post-conflict reconstruction and
conflict prevention activities
o Only receives a small amount of funding
· In 2005, the world spent over $1.1 trillion
($1,100,000,000,000) on its military forces - continuing a
rising trend. Diverting at least some of this spending could
help achieve the aims above, reducing the likelihood of
conflict.
· Reducing dependence on military forces as a way of dealing
with international problems will also help reduce their carbon
emissions!
· The power of corporations, especially military corporations,
with their ability to lobby for favourable policies needs to be
curbed.

http://www.frosinone.org/scuola/diri...%20Warming.pdf
Ah hippies...

Stupid hippies, what with the wanting to reduce the amount of weapons the US exports, international dependence on military force, and air pollution. Good thing the neoconservative agenda has been so successful, otherwise it might become glaringly obvious that the "hippies" just might have a point.

Being naive is quite funny.

Let me translate into hippese..

Man the UN man can like stop all this by like stopping the corporate nazis in the US man, and like they will stop this man but like with peace instead of guns man.

The us man has too many rednecks with guns man and they are trying to keep their murder man and then they export their murder, its all the USA's fault man, there would be no violence without uncle Sam.

Man like, man we need to use bombs less man, and like do things peaceful like man and man it will save lots of trees man, and like stop global warming, oh god I think I'm going to throw up.

Such thing are kinda cute in young adults, but it grows tiresome.

No. Reduction is key. Finding more efficient ways to burn what fuel we have left and find ways to not spend the fuel seems a better strategy than a continued trend of using MORE energy.

I love mine, too. And I think it's Red or Fresnelly that has one, too. My apologies to the one that doesn't.

I drive a ton for work. Last week it was over 450 miles. I get reimbursed 50.5 cents per mile. Minus the 16 miles each way to the office, regardless of if I even go there during the day... stupid IRS... but it's not enough to really offset the damage done on my car. I need oil changes every six weeks.

So to answer the question and quit threadjacking...

Gas prices are killing me. :(