jewels

This thread is for JinnKai

Have you learned anything since you joined TFP? Are you more open minded, more tolerant? Changed some political views? Changed some sexist views?

Do you think you can learn from others' words and experiences here at TFP but maintain your current stance? Do you think you are still evolving? Try to be as specific as you can.

I've been here about six months now and I'd say that I've learned so much. I'm beginning to understand certain views about politics that I didn't really "get" before. I've changed my views about a specific type of relationship I used to look down on since I've gotten to "know" some who are involved in them.

I've learned that there are many women who feel as I do about certain issues, and even some men. But it amazes me that I have more respect and better understanding of those who don't share my beliefs. And I've learned to laugh (in a good way) about some of those differences. They sure do keep things interesting, don't they? Of course, there are those that I doubt I'll ever understand, but hey ...

How 'bout you?

__________________
We are always more anxious to be distinguished for a talent which we do not possess, than to be praised for the fifteen which we do possess.
Mark Twain

abaya

I used to get a lot more out of this place (back in 2005/06)... maybe I was just on a steep learning curve then, I don't know. I grew a lot, from the knowledge/stimulation of a lot of great people here, many of whom are no longer on the boards.

But for a long while now, I've felt mostly frustrated or sad when I participate here. I'm still putting in the energy, but I don't feel it going anywhere. Basically, I go to other places to "evolve," if that makes sense.

__________________
And think not you can direct the course of Love;
for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course.
--Khalil Gibran

snowy

I wouldn't say that this place is directly responsible for the many ways I've changed in the last year, but I would say that TFP has provided a great deal of support and help in making those changes. I was inspired by a user here to get off my duff, and thanks to the rest of the TFP, I was able to keep it up!

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If I am not better, at least I am different. --Jean-Jacques Rousseau

mixedmedia

While I'm essentially the same now as I was when I came here, participating here has helped me to dig down to the core of why I care about the things I do. It has connected a lot of dots for me as I watch myself type again and again what I've come to realize are essentially the same sentiments over a wide assortment of topics. It's been very interesting and, all the piss and vinegar it took for to get there aside, it's something I'm really thankful for.

The TFP also provides a lot of food for thought. And I love to dwell on things. For instance, the last couple of days I've been wondering...what is the missing link between intellectual freedom and evolution? And do we who believe in intellectual freedom have a moral responsibility to evolve?

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Most people go through life dreading they'll have a traumatic experience. Freaks were born with their trauma. They've already passed their test in life. They're aristocrats. - Diane Arbus
PESSIMISM, n. A philosophy forced upon the convictions of the observer by the disheartening prevalence of the optimist with his scarecrow hope and his unsightly smile. - Ambrose Bierce

dc_dux

I'm here primarily for the political infotainment.

I give a little...I get a little.

I dont think its change me either way.

__________________
"The perfect is the enemy of the good."
~ Voltaire

girldetective

Im less cavalier. I learn everywhere and when I learn, I evolve.

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As far as possible, without surrender, be on good terms with all persons...be cheerful; strive for happiness - Desiderata

Mephex

When I signed up to the TFP it was exactly what I needed, and helped me a great deal. Knowing that there are people of such different walks of life giving of themselves is really appealing and keeps me coming back.

Though nowadays I primarily lurk about, not really having the same fire to fuel drawn out cyclical posts.

Did I change a lot since I first signed up? yes. Was TFP IRC there to help me along back then? yes.

Great post.

__________________
He who is void of virtuous attachments in private life is, or very soon will be, void of all regard for his country.
There is seldom an instance of a man guilty of betraying his country, who had not before lost the feeling of moral obligations in his private connections.
-Samuel Adams

Fotzlid

I don't participate in forums to evolve, I participate mostly as a way to unwind after work and as a form of social interaction.

genuinegirly

TFP has been crucial to my personal development.

I am able to express myself differently here than I can elsewhere. It goes beyond internet anonymnity. Honestly, I am not anon here, never have been. Hal and others know me.

I wouldn't have stepped out of the mold if not for this place. It is healthy for me - getting advice, learning to write about my views. Also, seeing the support this random grouping of strangers gives to anyone who asks helps me to see that humanity is moving in a direction that is generally positive. TFP offers a peer group with so many ages and lifestyles represented... I can think of nowhere else in life that could offer me these experiences.

Abaya - perhaps you mourn those old days because you have moved into the role of educator, less of pupil. I wonder if I'll reach that point. In the meantime, I'm still that pupil, learning about life.

__________________
"Sometimes I have to remember that things are brought to me for a reason, either for my own lessons or for the benefit of others." Cynthetiq

"violence is no more or less real than non-violence." roachboy

abaya

Wow... thank you, genuinegirly. That's the nicest thing anyone's said to me around here in a while. I guess I never considered myself to have changed roles in that manner, though I do get an awful lot of PM's these days about all manner of topics, which certainly didn't happen 3 years ago... so something has changed, in that sense.

Don't get me wrong, those first 1-2 years here were extremely important for my personal growth... I'd never underestimate that. But yeah, I have felt a shift lately... I chalk it up to becoming far too easily annoyed/cynical at people on the internet when I should be working on my research, lol. I also think that not being in a long-distance relationship with ktspktsp for the last year has decreased my "need" for community on TFP... I miss it, but I'm not trying to use it to fill a lack in my life, as I was doing at first.

So yes, I have evolved (more in the past) as a result of being part of this community, that's unquestionable. I just want to keep evolving, and I don't know if this is the place for it, right now... we'll see.

__________________
And think not you can direct the course of Love;
for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course.
--Khalil Gibran

roachboy

evolving..i dont know.

i know that the one thing about tfp that has been enormously important to me and for me has been the journal--but it's also the most self-centered of things and perhaps that says something i dont know.
i started in in july 2004 and have done something in it almost daily since, often just to write or organize something. but almost every day.
the effects of simply maintaining a daily practice there have been really important to and for me---it's enabled me to transform how i write in the non-tfp world--and even though i sometimes wonder if it's all gone too far, in that these transformations have linked to others and have caused as much trouble for me as anything else in terms of reception-- it's been part of an experience that i wouldn't trade for anything. it's radicalized what i do. and it's let me work on technique. it's a practice space. and i like to practice. but it's not just practicing because i understand that folk read it, and i'm glad that is the case and appreciate as well that folk look at it and make whatever they make of it.

as for the board--i dont know.
i don't find it pushes me to anything. it doesn't teach me anything new in a big sense, but at the same time there are interesting folk who do not think as i do and there's interesting information and enough of interest that i keep playing----but i can't say that there's much happening that involves evolution. not for me anyway.

on the other hand, i do know that when i first made roachboy, he was an asshole: and now he's only an asshole sometimes. so i suppose that's evolution.

__________________
a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle
spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear

it make you sick.

-kamau brathwaite

pig

I feel somewhat like abaya, without all the pm's for advice I've been very active here at previous periods...but I don't find much these days that engages me personally. Occasionally there's a thread that will pull me in, but more often I find myself doing a 'new post' search, reading a few threads to keep up with what people are saying/thinking/doing, and then popping out to do other things in "real life." I think it's tied to the fact that I'm more busy now in "real life" than I was previously, and to the fact that you can only have so many posts before you start repeating yourself and hearing others repeat themselves. Things on this board are cyclical - so maybe I'll get pulled in again later. For now, I'm thankful for some of the friendships I've gained through this board, and occasionally I wonder if I'll ever actually meet some of you off the boards. For the most part, I'm happy to lurk a bit now and watch what others find useful to argue about.

I think that it comes down to getting experiences/knowledge that you can share across the boards, discussing it here with others, and then possibly coming back later with a fresh perspective. Otherwise, you just vomit up crap all across the boards. I've seen other posters go through this, and some of them I miss as far as their posts go. lurkette is one of those posters, for instance. ratbastid is still pretty active, at least in politics, but the boards change with time, i think. the group that i 'came in with' is subtley different now than, say...2 years ago...and i imagine that others who are now very active are in the same state of mind i was when i first started posting here. regardless, i find value in the board as a way to keep track of people i wouldn't know any other way. hats off to spec, jj, shesus, supple and jess. i always enjoy reading roach and mixed's posts.

speaking of which, where the hell is analog?

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You don't love me, you just love my piggy style

host

I've written and read things on this forum I never expected to see or share. I thank my fellow members for their encouragement and their criticism.

I believe actively participating on this forum is a growth experience. It's not a coincidence that they posts so far on this thread have come from members who, in my experience, have written some of the most giving accounts about themselves I have had the privilege to read in my time here.

Willravel

Some day I've evolved completely. Other days I've gone back to being a cro magnon. C'est la vi.

I've grown while on TFP. I'll have been here for 4 years this August. I can't speak to how much TFP specifically has had an effect overall. It has had an effect, but I can't really say how much. I feel friendships with fellow members. I've learned quite a bit (thanks in no small part to host, actually). I've even managed to teach a little bit.

SSJTWIZTA

Well, i dont believe the tfp has helped me evolve much at all. i would say it gives me an outside opinion on some questions i and other might pose, sure. but evolve, not really.

every day real life experiences help me do that.

the one thing the TFP has helped me with is a nice understanding that everyone isnt a total douche bag.

__________________
First they came for the Jews and I did not speak out because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for the communists and I did not speak out because I was not a communist.
Then they came for the trade unionists and I did not speak out because I was not a trade unionist
Then they came for me And there was no one left to speak out for me.
-Pastor Martin Niemoller

MSD

Over the years here I've evolved from Communist to Libertarian, paranoid conspiracy theorist and paranormal enthusiast to skeptical realist, and closed-minded to tolerant of nearly everything. More importantly, I came in as a nice guy and now I'm an asshole.

Shout-out to SecretMethod70 for being the one who turned me on to libertarian politics.

echo5delta

Slowly, and with no small bit of trepidation, I'd say definitely.

I find myself delving DEEP into forums before even thinking of trying a new thread. Much of the time I get distracted by other shiny, pretty topics that I like already, and read the hell out of the entire thread, just to pick up a pointer or two. Or just to watch the crazy, whichever.

Mainly, I have an irrational fear that if I fuck something up, about 382 of you will jump my shit. Which, I know, is really silly. Then again, that's how a tight and well-established community should be.

I don't think I've come close to rousing ire (so far), but after a while I bet I'll feel a LOT tighter than I have been with all y'all up until this point.

(Also, please forgive my writing, because on a topic like this, I type exactly how I'd talk face-to-face. I'm Southern. My Bad.)

__________________
"Peace" is when nobody's shooting. A "Just Peace" is when we get what we want. - Bill Mauldin

percy

Evolving or learning because of TFP? No. But I can see how it is possible that other may people benefit from that premise.

Strange Famous

Mostly I spend so much time online because I'm lonley.

I would say it probably has changed me a bit (not this site specifically, but the amount of time I spend online in general) and probably not for the better.

__________________
"Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate,
for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing
hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain
without being uncovered."

The Gospel of Thomas

Willravel

Backwards!!

Manic_Skafe

Cute, I remember feeling the same way.

And I would say no. These forums are a nice getaway from the real world but I really don't come here for enlightenment. I've found plenty of good books, new artists and a ton of interesting websites through these forums and that's why I stick around.

Maybe I haven't found enlightenment because I'm not looking for it.

__________________
"Porn is a zoo of exotic animals that becomes boring upon ownership." -Nersesian

Martian

I've been an active member 'round here for almost exactly three years. My first posts, then, were made when I was 21, which seems like a long time ago. In a lot of ways it is.

In the intervening time I feel like I've made the full transition into adulthood. I still largely feel like that 19 year old kid I once was, except that my opinions and philosophies have formed and solidified. I've learned a lot about myself and others, I've learned what I like about myself and what I don't like and how to go about changing these things. I've fallen in love and fallen out of love. It's been quite a trip, in other words.

I'm not sure how much if any of the changes I've made over the course of my third decade on this rock can be attributed to the TFP. I'd like to think that I would've grown and matured regardless of the people here, but I'm not sure that's the case. There are men here who I've gotten to know through their writing (and, occasionally, in person) and who I now look up to and admire, who serve as role models for me of a sort. It seems odd to form such a relationship through a medium like this one, and I'm certain they're not aware of it; at the same time, when I think about the man I want to be in five or ten years, these are the guys who pop into my head. And that sense of kinship I guess, for lack of a better word, seems like it would almost have to affect a person.

The Tilted Forum Project has provided me with a group of peers and a sense of camaraderie that was sorely missing in my life. And I think it's only appropriate for me to take this moment to thank all the people here, whether they're new or old hands, whether they're young or old, for providing a place where I can feel that way.

__________________
I wake up in the morning more tired than before I slept
I get through cryin' and I'm sadder than before I wept
I get through thinkin' now, and the thoughts have left my head
I get through speakin' and I can't remember, not a word that I said

- Ben Harper, Show Me A Little Shame

Jinn

This thread makes me

As for whether I've evolved or not.. absolutely. That's why I came to TFP (The Evolution of Humanity, Sexuality and Philosophy), and that's why I continue to stay here. .

__________________
"I'm typing on a computer of science, which is being sent by science wires to a little science server where you can access it. I'm not typing on a computer of philosophy or religion or whatever other thing you think can be used to understand the universe because they're a poor substitute in the role of understanding the universe which exists independent from ourselves." - Willravel

thespian86

Sexually and Socially, I've learned a lot of things vicariously since I'll probably never participate in or be a part of most of the problems/experiences on here. It's good to hear several grown men and women give their opinions on issues, because it's something I that I wouldn't get in my everyday life. I love the interaction. I've learned to laugh more. It gives me more to think about and education is evolution, am I right? So I suppose I have.

__________________
EX: Whats new?
ME: I officially love coffee more then you now.
EX: uh...
ME: So, not much.

Giant Hamburger

I am not really an evolver.
I prey on threads that are weak and injured.
I tend to avoid the healthy ones that contain serious discussions.
My opinions, for the most part, remain a mystery.
I try not to be redundant.

Punk.of.Ages

Every day. That's why I'm here.

I interact with people here. Anytime I interact I try to learn something from it. Anytime I learn I evolve a little.

__________________
"The fact is that censorship always defeats its own purpose, for it creates, in the end, the kind of society that is incapable of exercising real discretion..." - Henry Steel Commager

"Punk rock music is great music played by really bad, drunk musicians." -Fat Mike

highthief

Sometimes I read something really interesting and profound and it gets me thinking - other times I feel like I'm losing brain cells reading some of the same old arguments being batted about again. by the same old people.

Six of one, a half-dozen of the other.

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Si vis pacem parabellum.

jewels

I really love your response, POA

__________________
We are always more anxious to be distinguished for a talent which we do not possess, than to be praised for the fifteen which we do possess.
Mark Twain

Cynthetiq

I'm evolving all the time. Every moment is an opportunity to learn something. Sometimes it's alot, sometimes it is little.

4 of the 10 Rules for Being Human involve lessons and learning.

If Life Is A Game, These Are The Rules,

If Life Is A Game, These Are The Rules,

one of my favorite books, I used to carry it around with me everywhere. Now I just read the 10 rules from time to time to remind me when I forget them, since that's rule 10, I will forget them.

"Life is a succession of lessons which must be lived to be understood." (Helen Keller)

__________________
I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not.

Punk.of.Ages

And I love your question Jewels. It's discussions such as this one that keep me around.

__________________
"The fact is that censorship always defeats its own purpose, for it creates, in the end, the kind of society that is incapable of exercising real discretion..." - Henry Steel Commager

"Punk rock music is great music played by really bad, drunk musicians." -Fat Mike

Halx

This forum had a sweet spot as far as "meaningfulness" goes a long time ago. It was the type of environment that had a little magic in it. Everyone was open to new ideas. Everyone was open to sharing. Everyone interacted with a lot more flirting. Its changed a lot, obviously. I blame the general internet environment. Recent events have polarized and scared people. Instead of floating in the space between, people have been forced to choose a side and now approach arguments from that perspective instead of entering them open to all ideas.

So when people say they don't feel like they're evolving here, I attribute it to the way people handle themselves. No longer can you share your personal life with the internet because you think/know it will come back to haunt you. No longer can you listen to someone else's opinion because you were knee-jerked into your current opinion by recent events. Everyone has their guard up.

The TFP could really use a dose of innocence. We need people who are smart enough to ask questions, but not so smart that they have all the answers. We need people who see potential in the internet as a collaborative space rather than a battleground of ideologies. Most of all, we need people who want to have fun in this environment. As a discussion forum, we don't offer many bells and whistles, but we do offer people to bounce your thoughts off of. That is the start of personal evolution.

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You have found this post informative.
-The Administrator
[Don't Feed The Animals]

ShaniFaye

September will be 5 years for me here...have I evolved? No I dont really think so, my opinions and ideas are no different than they were back then. Have I learned anything? You betcha, I've learned there are very few people that think and react like I do

__________________
I want the diabetic plan that comes with rollover carbs. I dont like the unused one expiring at midnite!!

filtherton

I definitely think that I've gotten more refined, better at not being an ostentatious douchebag, better at not being openly inflammatory. Some of these are directly due to the tfp, some are due to being 4.5 years older than I was when I joined.

jewels

Not sure exactly what you mean by "having their guards up"? There are parts of my life I'm very open about (here) and parts you'll never hear me talk about (my choices). But as far as opinions, if I feel strongly or passionately about something, I'll chime in my two cents. Maybe some of it has to do with age; years ago if I posted on a forum and my post wasn't acknowledged, I would take it personally. For some, that translates to resentment.

As to the friendships here that have been going on for years, you "guys" have become a closeknit group. Any newbie here can see that. I was part of that tight group at the site I frequented for several years, and there were many who disagreed with a mindset we shared. We understood one another and those coming along were just beginning to learn what we knew.

TFP was flirty, friendly, and those web-inception bonds can't be broken. It was easy, effortless and the segue into politics followed naturally. If you disagreed, you knew one another well enough to argue creatively and listen to one another.

Couldn't it be that TFP is evolving as it's own membership evolves? The founding members are aging , they get married, have kids, change relationships and jobs, travel and move around. The world has changed, we've changed our priorities and maybe our politics might even change just a bit.

The only guardedness I see is a defensiveness, maybe more of a denial. Not wanting to get change, not wanting to believe that what we once were so cocksure of, ain't necessarily so. Some of us are afraid to look within or afraid we might seem weak if our thought process isn't the same as it used to be.

__________________
We are always more anxious to be distinguished for a talent which we do not possess, than to be praised for the fifteen which we do possess.
Mark Twain

ring

Nice post jewels.

I am a new person here at TFP,
and new to the wonders of the internet.
(I am 49 and have only had a computer since last Oct.)

I have spent many many hours reading the archives here,
and I see the changes...the fluctuations....
I feel sad sometimes...when I hear people say this place isn't
quite what it used to be....and I kinda understand ..I think
what they mean by that.

There are people that were posting when I first joined,
that I haven't seen in sometime..I miss their humorous and intelligent input.

I know I have definitely evolved during my short time here...being exposed to
so many different perspectives...of age, culture, and personalities.

Even though my forum experience consists of TFP only,
I do believe I've happened upon the best forum on the internet.

How could I not evolve?

Punk.of.Ages

Ring wins.

__________________
"The fact is that censorship always defeats its own purpose, for it creates, in the end, the kind of society that is incapable of exercising real discretion..." - Henry Steel Commager

"Punk rock music is great music played by really bad, drunk musicians." -Fat Mike

Halx

I like your post, jewels. Somehow, I'm getting the impression that over the last 6-7 months, the TFP has earned new members who are enriching the pool very rapidly. Its up to everyone to welcome them and get them involved. If they stick, then we've done our jobs.

I feel like the membership of the TFP has been washed and re-washed so many times that there are actually very few members here who are informal with each other. Of course, its those few members who have become so comfortable with posting, that they actually post quite often and thus you see their influence everywhere you look.

In general, its improving from what it was a year ago. And two years ago. And three, too.

__________________
You have found this post informative.
-The Administrator
[Don't Feed The Animals]

percy

Maybe this is the case for some people, but I think you give far to little credit to your membership. As a result, in comparison to a few years ago, I actually feel TFP, has regressed, or devolved. Your above statement reflects that.

I'm not knocking your site but my opinion is that it used to be refreshing coming here. If people got out of line, they were quickly dealt with. Now resentment lingers. The overall quality has dropped because of that one thing, and now this site is indistiguishable to the countless others. But that's just one example

It's great if people learn something here, there or anywhere. And if they evolve, good for them since that shows they are open to change. But to me it doesn't present any challenges and without that, evolution goes beyond static to non-existent.

lotsofmagnets

ok so my impression as a n00b reading this thread is "well, the magic is long gone, the membership are disillusioned so i might as well leave now and not suffer the disappointment." or are my standards so low that i found what is only the hollow shell of a forum in a sea of other forums and still found it worthwhile to stick around and see how this place works? having come from spending 3 years on another forum, getting to know many members quite well and several translating into friends i know away from the forum i know all to well how to look at the past with rose-tinted glasses. as it always goes, you only get out what you put in and if you expect to be disappointed you sure as hell will be. people come and go. i´m sure the baby wasn´t thrown out with the bathwater. but then again, i´m only new here and what do i know?

__________________
mother nature made the aeroplane, and the submarine sandwich, with the steady hands and dead eye of a remarkable sculptor.
she shed her mountain turning training wheels, for the convenience of the moving sidewalk, that delivers the magnetic monkey children through the mouth of impossible calendar clock, into the devil's manhole cauldron.
physics of a bicycle, isn't it remarkable?

Halx

The point is that we've all found it worthwhile to stick with it. That is what will carry it through.

__________________
You have found this post informative.
-The Administrator
[Don't Feed The Animals]